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Post by seekeroftruth on Mar 14, 2012 22:37:55 GMT -5
And so it begins. For years, evolutionary biologists have predicted that new human species would start popping up in Asia as we begin to look closely at fossilised bones found there. A new analysis of bones from south-west China suggests there's truth to the forecast. The distinctive skull (pictured, right) was unearthed in 1979 in Longlin cave, Guangxi Province, but has only now been fully analysed. It has thick bones, prominent brow ridges, a short flat face and lacks a typically human chin. "In short, it is anatomically unique among all members of the human evolutionary tree," says Darren Curnoe at the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia. The skull, he says, presents an unusual mosaic of primitive features like those seen in our ancestors hundreds of thousands of years ago, with some modern traits similar to living people. What's more, Curnoe and Ji Xueping of Yunnan University, China, have found more evidence of the new hominin at a second site – Malu cave in Yunnan Province. Curnoe has dubbed the new group the Red Deer Cave people because of their penchant for venison. "There is evidence that they cooked large deer in Malu cave," he says. Muddled tree Exactly where the Red Deer Cave people belong in our family tree is unclear. Curnoe says they could be related to some of the earliest members of our species (Homo sapiens), which evolved in Africa around 200,000 years ago and then spread across Asia to reach China. He prefers the idea that they represent a new evolutionary line that evolved in East Asia in parallel with our species, just as Neanderthals did – primarily because they look very different to early African members of our species. There are other possible interpretations. Chris Stringer at the Natural History Museum in London, says their distinctive primitive features might suggest they are related to the enigmatic Denisovan people, known from a 30,000 to 50,000-year-old finger bone and tooth found in a Siberian cave. We know that the Denisovans were living in East Asia, and from a DNA analysis, that they mated with our direct ancestors. The Red Deer Cave people, says Stringer, could even be the product of that mating. Long-standing people Although we still do not know exactly where they came from, we do know that the Red Deer Cave people survived until relatively recently. Some of the newly described fossils are just 11,500 years old, suggesting that unlike Neanderthals they made it through the height of the last ice age. They might not have been the only ancient humans to survive so late, says Michael Petraglia at the University of Oxford. We already know of human skeletons with unusual archaic features in south Asia and India that are just 8000 years old. The next step is to analyse DNA extracted from the Red Deer Cave bones, which will tell us more about their owner's evolutionary history – whether they mated with any other hominins, for instance, and if they are truly a new species that evolved entirely in East Asia, as Curnoe believes, or are off-shoots of the Denisovan people. Curnoe says an initial attempt to extract good DNA from the fossils failed. "We are doing more work now involving three of the world's major ancient DNA laboratories," he says. "We'll just have to wait and see if we're successful." www.newscientist.com/article/dn21586-chinese-human-fossils-unlike-any-known-species.htmlWhat are your thoughts?
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Post by anansi on Mar 14, 2012 23:39:39 GMT -5
And so it begins. For years, evolutionary biologists have predicted that new human species would start popping up in Asia as we begin to look closely at fossilised bones found there. A new analysis of bones from south-west China suggests there's truth to the forecast. The distinctive skull (pictured, right) was unearthed in 1979 in Longlin cave, Guangxi Province, but has only now been fully analysed. It has thick bones, prominent brow ridges, a short flat face and lacks a typically human chin. "In short, it is anatomically unique among all members of the human evolutionary tree," says Darren Curnoe at the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia. The skull, he says, presents an unusual mosaic of primitive features like those seen in our ancestors hundreds of thousands of years ago, with some modern traits similar to living people. What's more, Curnoe and Ji Xueping of Yunnan University, China, have found more evidence of the new hominin at a second site – Malu cave in Yunnan Province. Curnoe has dubbed the new group the Red Deer Cave people because of their penchant for venison. "There is evidence that they cooked large deer in Malu cave," he says. Muddled tree Exactly where the Red Deer Cave people belong in our family tree is unclear. Curnoe says they could be related to some of the earliest members of our species (Homo sapiens), which evolved in Africa around 200,000 years ago and then spread across Asia to reach China. He prefers the idea that they represent a new evolutionary line that evolved in East Asia in parallel with our species, just as Neanderthals did – primarily because they look very different to early African members of our species. There are other possible interpretations. Chris Stringer at the Natural History Museum in London, says their distinctive primitive features might suggest they are related to the enigmatic Denisovan people, known from a 30,000 to 50,000-year-old finger bone and tooth found in a Siberian cave. We know that the Denisovans were living in East Asia, and from a DNA analysis, that they mated with our direct ancestors. The Red Deer Cave people, says Stringer, could even be the product of that mating. Long-standing people Although we still do not know exactly where they came from, we do know that the Red Deer Cave people survived until relatively recently. Some of the newly described fossils are just 11,500 years old, suggesting that unlike Neanderthals they made it through the height of the last ice age. They might not have been the only ancient humans to survive so late, says Michael Petraglia at the University of Oxford. We already know of human skeletons with unusual archaic features in south Asia and India that are just 8000 years old. The next step is to analyse DNA extracted from the Red Deer Cave bones, which will tell us more about their owner's evolutionary history – whether they mated with any other hominins, for instance, and if they are truly a new species that evolved entirely in East Asia, as Curnoe believes, or are off-shoots of the Denisovan people. Curnoe says an initial attempt to extract good DNA from the fossils failed. "We are doing more work now involving three of the world's major ancient DNA laboratories," he says. "We'll just have to wait and see if we're successful." www.newscientist.com/article/dn21586-chinese-human-fossils-unlike-any-known-species.htmlWhat are your thoughts? My first thoughts is they are the same as the Denisovans but would have to wait for further studies egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bag&action=display&thread=666klik here for a look at the Denisovans.. ps I am bumping this to the science folder nice find..
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Post by seekeroftruth on Mar 14, 2012 23:57:40 GMT -5
Thank you. I thought it would be interesting to the collective. I haven't been on here in a long time so it was more like my coming back thread.
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Post by seekeroftruth on Mar 15, 2012 0:15:26 GMT -5
And so it begins. For years, evolutionary biologists have predicted that new human species would start popping up in Asia as we begin to look closely at fossilised bones found there. A new analysis of bones from south-west China suggests there's truth to the forecast. The distinctive skull (pictured, right) was unearthed in 1979 in Longlin cave, Guangxi Province, but has only now been fully analysed. It has thick bones, prominent brow ridges, a short flat face and lacks a typically human chin. "In short, it is anatomically unique among all members of the human evolutionary tree," says Darren Curnoe at the University of New South Wales in Sydney, Australia. The skull, he says, presents an unusual mosaic of primitive features like those seen in our ancestors hundreds of thousands of years ago, with some modern traits similar to living people. What's more, Curnoe and Ji Xueping of Yunnan University, China, have found more evidence of the new hominin at a second site – Malu cave in Yunnan Province. Curnoe has dubbed the new group the Red Deer Cave people because of their penchant for venison. "There is evidence that they cooked large deer in Malu cave," he says. Muddled tree Exactly where the Red Deer Cave people belong in our family tree is unclear. Curnoe says they could be related to some of the earliest members of our species (Homo sapiens), which evolved in Africa around 200,000 years ago and then spread across Asia to reach China. He prefers the idea that they represent a new evolutionary line that evolved in East Asia in parallel with our species, just as Neanderthals did – primarily because they look very different to early African members of our species. There are other possible interpretations. Chris Stringer at the Natural History Museum in London, says their distinctive primitive features might suggest they are related to the enigmatic Denisovan people, known from a 30,000 to 50,000-year-old finger bone and tooth found in a Siberian cave. We know that the Denisovans were living in East Asia, and from a DNA analysis, that they mated with our direct ancestors. The Red Deer Cave people, says Stringer, could even be the product of that mating. Long-standing people Although we still do not know exactly where they came from, we do know that the Red Deer Cave people survived until relatively recently. Some of the newly described fossils are just 11,500 years old, suggesting that unlike Neanderthals they made it through the height of the last ice age. They might not have been the only ancient humans to survive so late, says Michael Petraglia at the University of Oxford. We already know of human skeletons with unusual archaic features in south Asia and India that are just 8000 years old. The next step is to analyse DNA extracted from the Red Deer Cave bones, which will tell us more about their owner's evolutionary history – whether they mated with any other hominins, for instance, and if they are truly a new species that evolved entirely in East Asia, as Curnoe believes, or are off-shoots of the Denisovan people. Curnoe says an initial attempt to extract good DNA from the fossils failed. "We are doing more work now involving three of the world's major ancient DNA laboratories," he says. "We'll just have to wait and see if we're successful." www.newscientist.com/article/dn21586-chinese-human-fossils-unlike-any-known-species.htmlWhat are your thoughts? My first thoughts is they are the same as the Denisovans but would have to wait for further studies egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=bag&action=display&thread=666klik here for a look at the Denisovans.. ps I am bumping this to the science folder nice find.. Do you have more information regarding the Denisovans?
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Post by nebsen on Mar 15, 2012 15:50:36 GMT -5
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Post by nebsen on Mar 15, 2012 19:24:02 GMT -5
I just read a comment concerning the above picture or rendering of Chinese human fossil . The comment said that they were glad that the rendering was shown with a modern looking haircut & bread, for it made it look less African looking . Than I noticed that the picture did have a modern haircut & bread ! I don't ever remember seeing rendering of modern humans from out of Africa with this modern twist to it's appearance, does any one on this forum ? Does this say anything about how the Chinese never did like the" Out Of Africa theory" & see themselves as distinct & unique from the rest of us. For as I remember many embraced the Multi-regional theory as apposed to the Out Of Africa theory.
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Post by anansi on Mar 15, 2012 22:53:11 GMT -5
I just read a comment concerning the above picture or rendering of Chinese human fossil . The comment said that they were glad that the rendering was shown with a modern looking haircut & bread, for it made it look less African looking . Than I noticed that the picture did have a modern haircut & bread ! I don't ever remember seeing rendering of modern humans from out of Africa with this modern twist to it's appearance, does any one on this forum ? Does this say anything about how the Chinese never did like the" Out Of Africa theory" & see themselves as distinct & unique from the rest of us. For as I remember many embraced the Multi-regional theory as apposed to the Out Of Africa theory. I had posted a BBC The First Humans series but sadly it's been taken off Youtube,however the in the chapter about the first Asians a Chinese scientist was all for the multi regional theory which was quickly shot down by a simple DNA test,I do believe though that this new find while interesting is not us.
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Post by clydewin98 on Mar 23, 2012 21:09:19 GMT -5
LOL. This is a silly paper. It talks about the discovery of a "brown person', i.e., negro. This is stupid because the earliest skeletons found in China are of negroes.
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Post by zarahan on Mar 25, 2012 17:35:08 GMT -5
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Post by nebsen on Mar 25, 2012 18:22:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the link ! I found the comments to be very interesting, & illuminating esp. on page 2 "With Wealth Comes Arrogance & Myth Making" page 2 "Seen this Before" ,&" Absolute Rubbish"! Along with other comments that were thought provoking in that it seem like some are trying to stay open about the issue, with out validating the Chinese claims .
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Post by africurious on Mar 26, 2012 8:42:30 GMT -5
These chinese notions of human multiple origins are just like the other theories of multiple origins--all ideology, not science. Out of nationalism (and maybe some racism too cuz i'm aware of the feelings on africans there) this theory is made official doctrine in chinese schools. It's a dictatorship so whatever the leadership says should be taught is what's taught. And it's very appealing from nationalist perspective to think the chinese are unique and have always been chinese from day 1.
I too saw the doc that anansi mentioned and this top chinese geneticist tested 1,000s of people across china but to his shock (hahaa) they all had the same genes as other OOA migrants, see 7:52 in the vid below. Watch the vid from the start to see the doc's narrator talk with a chinese scientist pushing the multiple origins theory.
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Post by nebsen on Mar 26, 2012 17:10:49 GMT -5
Africurious,
I had posted that same video (short version starting at 7:52 ) over a year ago. I remember a scene in the movie" The Last Emperor "a characters says" I do not trust the Japanese" sensing their empirical ruthless ambitions . I hate to say it ,I feel the same way about the Chinese today. It kinds of reminds me of Nazi Germany forming their race theories about race & their white race superiority starting in the mid 30's; along with the myth making around it !
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Post by africurious on Mar 27, 2012 12:02:09 GMT -5
^I think that's waaay too harsh on the chinese to compare them to the nazis. Their ideas on multiple origins predates their current uptick in power which only started a few decades ago. And they aren't saying other races are inferior and as such can be killed.
Are the chinese anymore imperial than america? Powerful countries always throw their weight around and try to have things their way and mainly focus on themselves without great regard of harm to others. The chinese don't seem any worse than any other country would be if they were in their shoes. I don't excuse ills committed by powerful countries, but i dont see how china can be singled out among the powerhouses as particularly bad.
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Post by nebsen on Mar 27, 2012 18:39:34 GMT -5
Africurious,
I'm sure my statements seem a little hyperbole, but I still stand by my basic gut feeling about China at this time. Just look at the treatment of the people of Tibet, or even their own people; they can be very harsh & at time cruel in their treatment of others including those that look like them.
My concern is more cautionary & being vigilant about China & her subconscious "Will To Power". Like the Chinese( The Last Emperor) character who's concern was over Japan growing power in the late 30. My concern is China's voracious appetite for natural resources for her well over I billion people, & growing middle class. I live in the bay area with the largest Chinese population outside of China( it is said.) Their is a political debate about Shark Fin soup which the Chinese consider medicable( to increase one's sexual prowess & fertility ) millions of sharks have been killed only for their top fin, & than thrown back into the ocean still alive to die. Their is a city wide ban in San Francisco. that will soon go into effect against the sale of Shark fin soup. Their was out rage in the Chinese community for they feel it is their right & part of their culture to consume this concoction( not all but most), even if that means depleting the oceans of Sharks ! Their are many animals in Africa & other places( that are on the extinction list) that they (Chinese) consume body parts of animals for so called medicable purpose ( increase of fertility) & elephants for Ivory etc.
I don't think the world can support another " Super Power" depleting the resources esp. with one that has such a population as China or India etc. China seems to be using a hybrid model of Communism & capitalism( which I call the Frankenstein model) Than you add to that China's xenophobia for others esp. Black people( Black devils ) but a preference for White people & that is a toxic brew ! Now I'm not giving a pass to other world powers in the West, but that model of power is on it's way out (give or take a 100 years , )but I sure don't want the hybrid model of China to replace them either ! Their was a time in my youth that I carried my little "Red Book" Of Mo's saying in the 60's & was very idealistic . I have today a deep respect for the Chinese people, & their culture which is almost as old as ancient Egypt, but this might not make sense to you or others but, China is ruled by the Red Ray, which is the ray of "Will To Power"( notice red is very important to them) & must be checked by others esp. as we move forward into the 21century ! I also have had both Chinese & Japanese friends who were wonderful human being, so I'm not casting all Chinese people in this way.
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Post by africurious on Mar 28, 2012 10:15:54 GMT -5
Nebsen, I gotta say I'm very disappointed by those comments. They seem very americentric and a bit on the hysterical side. I'm not gonna try to beat you over the head argument wise and try to change your opinion. But, I think you're looking at things from a distorted view and there are somethings you're not considering. Let me explain (1st off, I have to say that, as a rule, one should be wary of any country that becomes very powerful):
That is a valid concern but it should be applied to any country or region with high growth rates. Why single out china? Your shark fin soup example makes it seem as though the chinese are worse than anyone else in their consumption of animals. That is just plain incorrect. China consumes waaaaay less meat than many countries, especially rich countries such as the US and those in western europe. Peoples the world over have been responsible for extinction of many species. Why single out china? You describe their appetite for natural resources as “voracious”. Actually, per person China consumes waaaaay less resources than many countries (mainly richer ones) like the US (for example, the US consumes more oil than china eventhough it’s population is over 4 times smaller). The greatest factor in determining consumption of resources by nations is wealth: the richer, the greater the amount of resources consumed by each person. Cultural factors (or any supposed “voraciousness”) account for little in the equation. You can verify this yourself with some research on resource consumption figures for countries. So, if china is voracious, then what are we in the US, insatiable fiends?
So, america should remain the lone super power and consume to its heart’s content while china and india should keep themselves impoverished so they don’t consume as much? That is in effect what you are saying even if that is not your aim. What about Africa? Should the continent of over 1 bill people (and rising incredibly fast. China is barely growing, and india is growing but much less rapidly than africa) sustain its poverty so its consumption barely rises? Meanwhile we in rich countries throw away food that poor countries don’t and acquire way more material goods than poor countries do.
It’s only natural and smart to be concerned about scarcity of resouces with a growing global population and the rising wealth of poorer countries, but to single out china as the bad guy is biased and plain wrong in terms of facts. We as a globe have to come up with ways to manage the resources we have. One cannot expect another country to relegate itself to poverty while we maintain our wealth and heavy consumption.
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