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al~Takruri
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The Herd of Ra
« Thread Started on Apr 2, 2010, 3:55pm »
This scene appears in a sacred afterlife text standardly called The
Book of Gates. The gates, or as I prefer, the portals are the hours
after sunset. At the 4th hour in it's 5th chapter titled The Gate of
Teka Hra there's this 30th vignette or scene (herein BG 4:5 s.30).

Though the scene appears on a few 19th & 20th dynasty pharaonic
tomb walls, it's best known representation is the one from Seti I.
Several Egyptologists made repros of the scene but this one here

[image]

from Lepsius' Denkmaeller is the most authentic full color repro. Some
overlook it in favor of Minutoli's gross racial stereotype version or
should I say, caricature, which sets it apart from those repros by
Belzoni, Champollion, or Rosellini which are so much more faithful
than Minutoli though not as richly accurate as Lepsius.
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Re: The Herd of Ra
« Reply #1 on Apr 2, 2010, 3:57pm »
[image]
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Re: The Herd of Ra
« Reply #2 on Apr 2, 2010, 4:01pm »
This is indeed the closest to the actual seti murial. I actually have a photo of the murial in my old hdd. I am still looking for it but best believe, as soon as I get a hold of it, will post it up. But for now, yours is pretty good. I am going to isolate both the Egyptian and Nubian and place them side by side, to get that visual umph! Ain't nothing like visual impact.
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Re: The Herd of Ra
« Reply #3 on Apr 2, 2010, 4:07pm »
I mean, for crying out loud! this is blatantly obvious (LOL)!


[image] [image]
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Re: The Herd of Ra
« Reply #4 on Apr 2, 2010, 4:17pm »
You're quite mistaken to presume I posted this for racial polemics. Please post
your racially focused commentary in a thread of your own broaching thank you.
This thread is for discussing The Herd (or Cattle) of Ra vignette 30 as to its
meaning and to present it as it appears on faithful reproductions of tomb walls.

[image]

Above is another BG 4:5 s.30 repro by Lepsius' art team from Ramses III's tomb.
The scene is condensed and only shows one representative instead the four as
on the tomb wall. The order was retained. From left to right we have one each of
the RMTW (Egyptians), AAMW (Levantines/Mesopotamians), NHHSW (Middle Nile
Valley folk), and TMHHW (Libyan desert and littoral folk).

This painting is controversial because in it Egyptians and "Kushites" are nearly
identical and pictorially speaking the Libyan and the Assyrian have traded places.
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Re: The Herd of Ra
« Reply #5 on Apr 2, 2010, 4:17pm »
This post has been deleted by administration.
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Re: The Herd of Ra
« Reply #6 on Apr 2, 2010, 4:47pm »
Before posting any further on the significance of BG 4:5 s.30 I await to see
how the hi-jacking of my thread to racial polemic purposes will be handled
by administration or moderator.

I don't care if people want to get into a bunch of race based discussion on
this board but since I asked for it to be taken elsewhere I don't expect to
hear any of it in my thread.

If it continues in my thread I'd just as soon delete this entire thread that
I started to put up the painting from different tombs and to understand
the accompanying hieroglyphic text seen above the peoples' heads.
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Re: The Herd of Ra
« Reply #7 on Apr 2, 2010, 4:49pm »

Quote:

This paintin is controversial because in it Egyptians and "Kushites" are nearly
identical and pictorially speaking the Libyan and the Assyrian have traded places.


I can only wonder what the cause of that is. I recall Yurco's complaints, which were mainly in response to the Egyptian and Nehesi being identical, but he never went further than saying they were garbled in the process of recreation, which obviously is false since Ampim took it upon himself to take photographs of the actual tomb. Could this simply represent a radical change in self-view, if not represent a diversity in the self-views of Egyptians during the reign of Ramses III? I thought I recalled a depiction of Ramses III himself, as being similar to the way the Egyptians and Nehesi are portrayed here. And what do we make of the switching of the Amu and Libu? Due to the previous invasions by way of the Hyksos and other pillagers, could it be that Amu were seen as more distant from Ra now?
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Re: The Herd of Ra
« Reply #8 on Apr 2, 2010, 4:56pm »
The Herd of Ra scene is race based (LOL)! The AEians made it racial. Hell! it is replete w/racial issues, right down to positioning of racial characters.

If you did not want your missive to devolve into a racial discourse, then why did you post up a scene whose central theme is race; and the order of admittance into the tuat is based on race?




Apr 2, 2010, 4:47pm, al~Takruri wrote:
Before posting any further on the significance of BG 4:5 s.30 I await to see
how the hi-jacking of my thread to racial polemic purposes will be handled
by administration or moderator.

I don't care if people want to get into a bunch of race based discussion on
this board but since I asked for it to be taken elsewhere I don't expect to
hear any of it in my thread.

If it continues in my thread I'd just as soon delete this entire thread that
I started to put up the painting from different tombs and to understand
the accompanying hieroglyphic text seen above the peoples' heads.
« Last Edit: Apr 2, 2010, 6:53pm by truth »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
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Re: The Herd of Ra
« Reply #9 on Apr 3, 2010, 2:28am »

Apr 2, 2010, 4:17pm, truth wrote:
As I also noted in an earlier post, the closeness in poximity of the Asiatique to the Egyptian in the procession suggests that the artist wanted to convey an affinity the asiatique shared w/the Egyptian; an Egyptian relationship unshared with the others. This relationship was cultural (dress) and biological (phoenotype; hair, skin tone). Take a look how closer in resemblence is the Asiatique to the Egyptian, relative to that between the Nubian and Egyptian.

[image] [image]

[image] [image]



Come one now, don't hijack this thread with the race paradigm. Start another thread discussing this if you like, more than enough people will be willing to engage.
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Re: The Herd of Ra
« Reply #10 on Apr 3, 2010, 2:31am »

Apr 2, 2010, 4:56pm, truth wrote:
The Herd of Ra scene is race based (LOL)! The AEians made it racial. Hell! it is replete w/racial issues, right down to positioning of racial characters.

If you did not want your missive to devolve into a racial discourse, then why did you post up a scene whose central theme is race; and the order of admittance into the tuat is based on race?




Apr 2, 2010, 4:47pm, al~Takruri wrote:
Before posting any further on the significance of BG 4:5 s.30 I await to see
how the hi-jacking of my thread to racial polemic purposes will be handled
by administration or moderator.

I don't care if people want to get into a bunch of race based discussion on
this board but since I asked for it to be taken elsewhere I don't expect to
hear any of it in my thread.

If it continues in my thread I'd just as soon delete this entire thread that
I started to put up the painting from different tombs and to understand
the accompanying hieroglyphic text seen above the peoples' heads.


I've said enough! This is not a race thread, if you want to discuss race do it in another thread, not this one, you're not being denied the right to discuss your views, you just will not do it in this thread.
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Re: The Herd of Ra
« Reply #11 on Apr 3, 2010, 5:49am »
Ok!! so is there anyother representation such as those of the 19~20th dynasties,before and after?I feel it is political in nature as regards the swithing of ethnicties in their position as being closest to Ra. And wasen't the 20th dynasty the one that was very troubled (year of the Hyena) The jockying for power by Kushite military strong men and local strong men? plus Weni's dis-gracefull treatment by the lords of Syria when he went to buy cedar?.
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Re: The Herd of Ra
« Reply #12 on Apr 3, 2010, 2:52pm »
If what did constituted "hijacking" then I apologize to the OP. I wont let it happen again.
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Re: The Herd of Ra
« Reply #13 on Jul 6, 2010, 7:08pm »

Apr 2, 2010, 4:17pm, al~Takruri wrote:
You're quite mistaken to presume I posted this for racial polemics. Please post
your racially focused commentary in a thread of your own broaching thank you.
This thread is for discussing The Herd (or Cattle) of Ra vignette 30 as to its
meaning and to present it as it appears on faithful reproductions of tomb walls.

[image]

Above is another BG 4:5 s.30 repro by Lepsius' art team from Ramses III's tomb.
The scene is condensed and only shows one representative instead the four as
on the tomb wall. The order was retained. From left to right we have one each of
the RMTW (Egyptians), AAMW (Levantines/Mesopotamians), NHHSW (Middle Nile
Valley folk), and TMHHW (Libyan desert and littoral folk).

This painting is controversial because in it Egyptians and "Kushites" are nearly
identical and pictorially speaking the Libyan and the Assyrian have traded places.


how do you know the Libyan and the Assyrian have traded places?
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Re: The Herd of Ra
« Reply #14 on Jul 7, 2010, 3:30pm »
Arara

I'm missing the character set you're using
so some characters are coming up as a
little square box.

I would like to see Etile's literal word for
word translation if available to see how
the meanings in the supplied translation
were derived.
« Last Edit: Jul 7, 2010, 3:34pm by al~Takruri »Link to Post - Back to Top  IP: Logged
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