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Post by anansi on Mar 14, 2014 2:57:49 GMT -5
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Post by anansi on Mar 14, 2014 3:32:56 GMT -5
  Peter Mensah and Harry Lennix the men who under mined him drove him out of Kemet. |
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Post by zarahan on Mar 14, 2014 11:24:22 GMT -5
Thanks Anansi. Good info. Didn't know all the above brothers were in the mix
on this production.
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Post by truthteacher2007 on Mar 14, 2014 12:57:46 GMT -5
That's not true. Most modern Egyptians are the product of the Arab conquest and other past migrations. Of course there's some African people and admixture in the country. They were called Aamu (asians) in Ancient Egypt. Like the Kushite and other foreigners they were only a small part of the population. Modern Egyptians are closer biologically/genetically to Arab people and West Asians, while Ancient Egyptians (well the majority of them) are indigenous black African people (similar to Yoruba, Somali, Dinka, Afar, etc) not West Asians or Eurasians. DNA and cranial data confirm your point. Modern Egyptians are different from the ancients- and are a more Arabized population. Even the tail end of the dynasties shows how they were changing (Zakrewski 2004 quoted below). This fact makes some modern Egyptians upset, debunking their claims to represent the ancients while disparaging Africans. Of course we all know that SOME of today's Egyptians still remain somewhat like the ancients particularly the rural darker-skinned Baladi- the "sons of the soil"- the ones looked down on by many of the lighter skinned Arabized types. But they can cry all they want. The facts are what they are.  there are some who try to use modern DNA or downplay the African connection, but
this denial rebounds on them, for the studies they oft cite are based on SELECTIVE
SAMPLING near the Medit coast, and deal with MODERN Egyptians- the Arabized mix. there are others who try to use forensic science race methods, but the again its skewed sampling.
Forensic workers oft use the CRANID skull database to claim "representative" Egyptian.
Only thing is CRANID's reference comparison samples are all drawn from the far north near the
Medit, a more polyglot region with some mixes, while excluding numerous places in the darker,
historic south. Credible mainstream Egyptologists like Barry Kemp have noted this skewed sampling
that excludes the history of thousands of years located further south in the "darker" regions.   Nowhere did i ever state that Modern Egyptians are pure. Let's be totally honest. If we run an autosomal DNA test on a lot of us here, it's going to come back with a profile that is NOT typically African. A great many of us have paternal ines that aren't even African and so what? Modern Egyptians are an admixed population, but understand that this process of mixture was something that statred in dynastic times and escalated in later periods. There is one point here that you both are missing and that is admixture does not erase your family line. If we applied the USA one drop rule to Egypt, they would almost all be undeniably black! Please, most of them couldn't even pass the eyes ball test! As much mixture as they have, it wasn't enough to wash the African out of them and regardless of what they like to think, everyone in the Arabic speaking world knows it and talks about it. Everyone knows Egyptians are considered the ******s of the Arabic speaking world. Ask any Syrian! Come on now! Do you see either one of these mother****ers chillin out in the whites only waiting room back in the day?   So please forgive me when I refuse to go along with this idea of a mixed light, bright damn near white Egypt. Baby, even after 3,000 plus years of mixing, there's still a lot of blackness left. If any Egyptian tries to run that shit on you, tell them they need to make a government policy to stick some clorox bleach in their neither regions if they want to give birth to kids that can make them a white country! Puleeeze! Let me ask both of you a question. Are any of these people, based on DNA or cranial measurements identical to Central and West African populations?    Does this mean that these people are NOT descendants of Africa? Oddly enough, they look more similar to modern Egyptians than they do to West Africans, but they most certainly are West Africa's children. Why is it that we have such a double standard? An Afro American can be as pale as Snow White, God help her if she tries to deny her African ancestry. But just because a few Asiatics ran up in Egypt, we're so quick to throw mostly brown skin people out of the African family? Yeah and I know, people will tell me again how many Egyptians hate being linked to Africa. Well so many Dominicans feel the same way. Yet even if a Dominican looks like Rickey Ricardo, we will never let him off the hook and keep reminding him of his African roots, but Egyptians, we have no problem cutting them loose. Again, why the double standard? I would caution against relying too heavily on Eurocentric quasai notions of race, phenotype as an indicator of determining family groupings. There was a recent thread on this forum pointing to the fact that North Africans share a common male ancestor with the majority of all African males, even though they do not look the same. So, trgardless of what Modern Egyptians look like or why, no matter how fucked in the head they are when it comes to color, (like whose even denying that one), they still are the children of the Ancients, just like the lighest Creol is still a child of Africa and part of the African diaspora. I'd also like to remind everyone here that we don't need to leave our community to find that level of fktardedness. Allyou have to do is buy a ticket to the Dominican Republic and in no time you can be on a sun drenched beach surrounded by dark skinned nappy headed people thoroughly convinced that they're either white or native american...... But i digress.... Anyway, my point is, that despite Egypt's cosmopolitain history, there are still plently of people who are of the exact same physical types as the statues and monuments from Ancient Egypt, so yes, it is certainly logical that you could have an Egyptian cast playing roles of Ancient Egyptians. That's why I suggested going to Upper Egypt and not Damietta which is well known to all Egyptians to have been settled by a lot of French soldiers after Neapolian invaded. |
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Post by truthteacher2007 on Mar 14, 2014 13:20:17 GMT -5
I think you have an excelent cast. I'd add Bassem Samra  Mohamed Mounir  Shando  More recent photo  Can't have an Egyptian movie without Adel Immam  Oh wait!  Christopher Judge. Loved him in Stargate SG1  |
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Post by amunratheultimate on Mar 14, 2014 16:05:13 GMT -5
Egypt is not a white country, never was, never will be. So with all those darkies running around, I dare say it's possible to find a modern day darkie to play an ancient darkie in Egypt. You don't need to go to any other store to buy chocolate in Egypt because they gots plenty right there. Unless you are suggesting that a dark Egyptian with East African features is not African enough for the job...
Agreed. Egypt always had a wide variety of skin tones. You're agreeing with someone who refers to Africans as darkies, chocololate and reducing African people to skin tones and keep posting pictures of Arab people (Aamu) instead of black African people. Unless he talks about casting the foreigners like the Aamu/Hyksos in the Sinuhe story, this is completely ridiculous. African people, including Ancient Egyptians, share a common origin predating the birth of the AE state but after the main OOA migration. AEians were their own people but share a common origin with other black African (aka so-called sub-saharan) populations not with Eurasians. Most modern Egyptians cluster more Eurasian (Arabs/Semites/Aamu).Ancient Egyptians and other African populations (like Yoruba, Somali, Wolof, Afar, Dinka, Kongo, Dogon, Zulu, Fulani, etc) are close to each others not only because of their skin tones or geographically but also historically, archaeologically, culturally, linguistically, biologically and genetically.Most African populations, the larger part of our ancestry, share a common origin pre-dating the formation of the AE state but postdating the main OOA migration. |
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Post by truthteacher2007 on Mar 15, 2014 0:29:13 GMT -5
Egypt is not a white country, never was, never will be. So with all those darkies running around, I dare say it's possible to find a modern day darkie to play an ancient darkie in Egypt. You don't need to go to any other store to buy chocolate in Egypt because they gots plenty right there. Unless you are suggesting that a dark Egyptian with East African features is not African enough for the job...
Agreed. Egypt always had a wide variety of skin tones. You're agreeing with someone who refers to Africans as darkies, chocololate and reducing African people to skin tones and keep posting pictures of Arab people (Aamu) instead of black African people. Unless he talks about casting the foreigners like the Aamu/Hyksos in the Sinuhe story, this is completely ridiculous. African people, including Ancient Egyptians, share a common origin predating the birth of the AE state but after the main OOA migration. AEians were their own people but share a common origin with other black African (aka so-called sub-saharan) populations not with Eurasians. Most modern Egyptians cluster more Eurasian (Arabs/Semites/Aamu).Ancient Egyptians and other African populations (like Yoruba, Somali, Wolof, Afar, Dinka, Kongo, Dogon, Zulu, Fulani, etc) are close to each others not only because of their skin tones or geographically but also historically, archaeologically, culturally, linguistically, biologically and genetically.Most African populations, the larger part of our ancestry, share a common origin pre-dating the formation of the AE state but postdating the main OOA migration. Where's your sense of humor? A little sarcasm never killed anybody! You know something? Deal with it! You're telling me I'm reducing Africans to skin color, yet you can't deal with anyone who doesn't fit your idea of what you think a black person/African should look like. Posting pictures of Arabs? Since when is Christopher Judge an Arab? As for the other people.... The statue of the scribe is from Ancient Egypt's Old Kingdom. I've seen the original in The Cairo Museum many times, and Adel Immam looks just like him. Egyptians didn't all conform to your narrow xenophobic critiria of what you think an African should look like. No, they didn't all look Wolof, or Fulani or Zulu. MAny of them looked like Adel Immam and that was waaay before they started mixing with outsiders. It's part of the built in physical diversity in Africa. DEAL WITH IT! Mohamed Mounir is Nubian. Shando Nubian. They both speak their Nubian languages, they are soooo not Arabs. Before that post I showed pictures of some really dark Egyptians. Those faces are not Arabian, those are Egyptian faces. Those people can't pass as typical Palestinians, Jordanians, Lebanese or Syrians. They are Egyptians. Those faces don't make sense in the Levant, they don't make sense in Europe, but place them in the larger African diasporan community, they make a lot of sense. What's rubbing you the wrong way is the bullshit we in the African American community are still dealing with regarding issues of colorism. Who was a house nigger, who was a field nigger. Whose a red bone and whose a tar baby. Whose got good hair and whose got bad hair. This all boils down to the divisive bullshit that was used to divide our community. Light skinned blacks were pitted against dark skinned blacks and there is still deep pain and animosity on both sides. When are we going to get over this shit? Seriously. This is the fucking elephant in the gaddamn room where this topic is concerned and no ne wants to deal with the issue, which is, we need to deal with our shit! So massa gave light skinned people a few more perks, so now, to claim "black pride", we want to go back to a pure black Africa, where the memory of half cast bastards didn't exist. So when you see light skinned folks in Egypt, it triggers your insecurities and issues around these issue. NEWS FLASH! That slavery days nonsense didn't exist back then. Egyptians were dark and light brown and everything inbetween. They had narrow features, and they had broad features. They had kinky hair and they had curly hair and they had wavey and straight hair. They were more varried than what you would like to believe. They wee very diverse and they were all Africans. Stop trying to project our garbage back into the past where it doesn't belong. Get over it already, or at least start working on your damn issues. Massa's dead. How long are we going to keep bfreathing life into his dead ass corps and dragging him around? Can't we bury the bitch already and get on with it? GODDAMN IT! |
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Post by zarahan on Mar 15, 2014 21:34:32 GMT -5
What's rubbing you the wrong way is the we in the African American community are still dealing with regarding issues of colorism. Who was a house , who was a field . Whose a red bone and whose a tar baby.
^^Huh? How did you get all this from AmunRa' post? Scratch head..
There may be some people like that out there but don't see it in this thread per se..
Informed students of Kemet have moved beyond all that colorism stuff. Some obsessors there are,
but its also heavily the Euronuts and "E-fundies", (certain modern day Egyptian ideologues) who can't
let go, and who project their own obsessions into their continuing bogus propaganda
barrage against the dreaded "Afrocentric" bogeymen. The "E-Fundie" ideologues think
thy are supposed to get a free pass just cuz they Egyptian (some bogusly claim to be).
But what you claim you are gets you no credit these days, and doesn't mean diddly.
What counts is hard data on the ground and credible scholarship. You get no free passes-
real or bogus 'Egyptian." Said "e-fundies" too often want to deny anything African about
Kemet, as if Kemet sprung up out of nowhere. I asked one "E-Fundie" some time back who
denied any influence from the south- so where did the founders of Kemet come from? China?
The mystical Atlantis?
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karem
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Post by karem on Mar 16, 2014 9:54:37 GMT -5
Nice choices for the cast. While we're on the subject of Ancient Egyptian/African diversity and Modern Egyptian appearance/origins, what might Asiatic people of looked like in the time of the tale ?
If we're going to choose actors for the Egyptian parts to reflect African diversity, should we not be doing the same for the Asiatic ones rather than going for a very binary 'white and black' theme?
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Post by truthteacher2007 on Mar 16, 2014 10:00:43 GMT -5
What's rubbing you the wrong way is the we in the African American community are still dealing with regarding issues of colorism. Who was a house , who was a field . Whose a red bone and whose a tar baby.
^^Huh? How did you get all this from AmunRa' post? Scratch head.. There may be some people like that out there but don't see it in this thread per se.. Informed students of Kemet have moved beyond all that colorism stuff. Some obsessors there are, but its also heavily the Euronuts and "E-fundies", (certain modern day Egyptian ideologues) who can't let go, and who project their own obsessions into their continuing bogus propaganda barrage against the dreaded "Afrocentric" bogeymen. The "E-Fundie" ideologues think thy are supposed to get a free pass just cuz they Egyptian (some bogusly claim to be). But what you claim you are gets you no credit these days, and doesn't mean diddly. What counts is hard data on the ground and credible scholarship. You get no free passes- real or bogus 'Egyptian." Said "e-fundies" too often want to deny anything African about Kemet, as if Kemet sprung up out of nowhere. I asked one "E-Fundie" some time back who denied any influence from the south- so where did the founders of Kemet come from? China? The mystical Atlantis? I guess you're right. For all it's advances, as a means off communication, the internet does have its flaws. One of them being the phenominon we discussed in the other thread of small but loud minorities giving a false impression that they are bigger than they actually are. So here's my deal. I really hate bigotry no matter where it comes from. I guess that I'm also dissappointed because I expected peoples of color with histories of colonial oppression to know better. I was really taken aback to see the blatant racism from people claiming to be Egyptian. For some reason they all seem to be Coptic. Even bigger dissappointment considering what the Coptic minority is going through. I was floored to see it coming from Afro Americans. As a person of African descent, I'm very sensitive to having people misrepresent you, separate you from your heritage etc. To me, he who feels it knows it, therefore, I can't imagine inflicting that which was done to me to someone else. I'm also a person of multi racial heritage, (truth be told, who the hell isn't). It's sad to say, but it is the truth, that we were used as a buffer class in my homeland. We often separated ourselves and looked down our noses at those who were more African, (unless of course they had money), so I know what colorism looks like. Being in the medium spectrum, I know what it feels like to be the object of resentment and hatred, because I was too light for dark people, "your one of them". Ironically I also know what it's like to be rejected because I'm too dark. Not good enough, spent juuust one second too long in the oven! It took me years to work this out of my system. The worse part about all this, is that it wasn't done by white people. I think it would have been a whole lot easier if it had been. It was done by my own people and other people of Afro descent. So when I see Afro Americans and Egyptians going at it, it infuriates me. Two children of Africa with a history of oppression doing the colonizer's work and trying to destroy each other. I also tend to have a short fuse at times. Sometimes, it can be quite long, sometimes not so much. Right about now, I'm in my short fuse stage. This thread was supposed to be about the idea of casting actors for a role based on an Egyptian story. Just an idea and out of nowhere, I get side swiped with all this junk about Egyptians not being Egyptians. I just had enough. My rant may have been over the top, but every word I said was true. I guess when you constantly have people coming for you all over the internet, as I do, you get rubbed raw after a while. Honestly, I thought it would have been the Euronuts, but no. It's the Coptic Nazis and the Afro Nazis. The Coptic Nazis have their nuts in a twist because people are telling them a truth that their brains can't handel after 2,000 yrs of having their minds fkd by outsiders who took away their spirituality, took away their culture took away their language and made them share croppres at best on their own land. Afro Nazis are mind fkd after 500 yrs of being taken from their lands, not really being allowed to settle in the new ones and made share croppers, having their spirituality taken, their cultures taken and their languages taken. Coptic Nazis are trying to run from color, (good luck with that). After 2,000 yrs of looking at foreigners, they've concluded that whiteness is the sign of luxury, power, respect. Since they don't have a concept of biological race, it's all down to what you look like. If you are light, you live in an imaginary world where darkness doesn't register on your radar. Yes, they actually tune out the 60% of the country that is tropically complected and focus on the 40%, or more like 30% who are fair. It's a brain washing. Look at any Egyptian movie, look at their celebrities in the media. They would have the world believe that 60% of the population doesn't exist and try to hide it. Afro Nazis are lashing out at a history of being punished for having too much color. They want to retreat to a past that never existed where all of Africa was filled with nothing but deep dark people all loving each other and living in harmony where Mr Whity and his bastard half breeds never existed. They hate lightskinned blacks because of the way slavery and Jim Crow pitted people against each other based on color. So to them, they want an Africa that was PURE and untouched. The existance of Modern Egyptians rubs them the wrong was because now here's a whole mess of people looking just like mister Whity's half breed bastards living in their sacred Africa AND they're fkd in the head about color too? Oh hell no! So their unresolved resentment towards light skinned people gets triggered when they see so many light skinned people in Africa. It's much easier to write them off as being total outsiders who have defiled the sanctity of Africa with their presence tan it is to deal with their emotional baggage. Both have more issues than the New York Times and their not dealing with it. Thing is though, can't we just ever have a normal discussion about anything pertaining to Egypt without having to deal with this shit? It's so annoying! It's like walking pass a room full of anoying liktle Chihuahuas yipping at you with their high pitched voices! You just want to kick the little rat looking bastards across the room and make them shut up! Okay. I've purged. Can we get back to the discussion and stay on topic? We still have no suggestions for female roles. |
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karem
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Post by karem on Mar 16, 2014 10:22:21 GMT -5
@truthteacher - good post. Id say that like Egypt and some other parts of North Africa, the Levant and Arab world has similar ideas about things like beauty and likewise would make the rest of the world think they all look like Shakira!
How about Yasmine Al Masri, Rula Jebreal and for the western mainstream appeal, Thandie Newton for some of the Asiatic females ?
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Post by amunratheultimate on Mar 16, 2014 12:28:47 GMT -5
Where's your sense of humor? A little sarcasm never killed anybody! Actually the posts of truthteacher2007 make a lot of sense when you view them as the attempts at sarcasm of a racist idiot. Rubbish and nonsense. |
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Post by amunratheultimate on Mar 16, 2014 12:59:09 GMT -5
@truthteacher - good post. Id say that like Egypt and some other parts of North Africa, the Levant and Arab world has similar ideas about things like beauty and likewise would make the rest of the world think they all look like Shakira! How about Yasmine Al Masri, Rula Jebreal and for the western mainstream appeal, Thandie Newton for some of the Asiatic females ? Please don't joke us. It's obvious the ethnic composition and genetic structure of modern Egypt is much more different than it was more than 5000 years ago!! There was many migration, conquest including the Arab Conquest. It's true for East Africa, the rest of Africa and the world as a whole. Just look at the current ethnic composition and genetic structure of America or Mesopotamia. All humans are admixed with each other which is a good thing for genetic diversity. Usually admixture level is roughly function of the geographic distance. For example, North African and Middle Eastern populations like Palestinians or Saudis are closer to African populations, due to admixtures (and more recent migration), than many other populations which are further away geographically. Ancient Egypt (and modern Africa) is no different, sure there was some admixture with West Asian people and possibly even European but it was minimal, even Ancient Greece had some minimal African admixture, but Ancient Egypt was largely an indigenous black African civilizations. As I said a couple of times already, you can't reduce African to skin tones. African populations and Ancient Egyptians are close to each other not only geographically but also historically, archaeologically, culturally, linguistically, biologically and genetically. When we study the AE foundation and history you can see the progression between the common origin in East Africa, the Green Sahara and the Wavy-line culture, Nabta Playa, Badarian, and Egypt at its formative stage. It's indigenous and fully African. |
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Post by zarahan on Mar 16, 2014 13:13:55 GMT -5
^Agreed. As for the actresses, since the tale is set in the 12th Dynasty any number of African American actresses can fit the bill. Thandie Newton is one possibility, and so is Vivicia Fox among others.  So would the chocolate-smooth African lady below:  |
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Post by truthteacher2007 on Mar 16, 2014 20:11:08 GMT -5
Where's your sense of humor? A little sarcasm never killed anybody! Actually the posts of truthteacher2007 make a lot of sense when you view them as the attempts at sarcasm of a racist idiot. Rubbish and nonsense. Said all I had to say. Got you pegged for who you are. No need to engage you any further. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to work on being a better person. |
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