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Post by anansi on Sept 23, 2016 8:12:33 GMT -5
Another wanna scholar using Wiki as a source. Siiiggghhhh! When will you and your buddies learn. Damn you guys are thick. Some White European Americans think America was always a white European country. Tic! ….Toc!....Tic!...Toc! think Ottoman Turks. Let me see how long it will take you for the alarm bells to go off. Oh! Nice choice of screen name...Khaled. Very original (insert sarcasm). Definitely not a name given to a West Virginian. lol! Finished high school bainiac? Please sir , i do not know what makes you go so angry all what i show to you was a picture from Egyptian temple that clarives how ancient egyptiants was clearly depicted sharply contrasted reddish-brown Egyptians and black Nubians , I'm an african & i'm proud to be and will always be and i love africa so mush but i'm not black i have a brown skin & so was the majorty of the people living in ancient egypt, like Ramesses II en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ramesses_II_as_child.jpgand Hatshepsut en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatshepsut#/media/File:Hatshepsut.jpegand many many others Ancient egypt is an african civilization, and if you sir come her to egypt even in giza near cairo where i live , the majority of people have brown skin the tan increase when you go south and decrees when you go north, most of the egyptians believe that our ancestors come from east africa, and about the lighter tan skin in lower egypt , you have to notice that the ancient egyptians specially the north ones were have connections with the Semitic people long time ago and that the Semitic people ruled egypt in 1620 BC en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksosand they ruled lower and middle Egypt for more than 100 years. and that's before the time of ramesse and the new Egyptian kingdom there was trade affairs with them all the time , then comes the Greeks , Arabs etc. that's why you found the people in lower egypt are mixed it was because of Mating between the egyptians and those new comers , but in upper egypt most of the people have the ancient egyptians appearance to this day. I hope that clarify some point and i hope to continue the discussion with you and with any one who ant that. Egyptian African and proud. cheers and peace to all Here is the thing Khalad, Black as a color was used for some Kemitians also, and the precise term chocolate Brown which happened to be the color of most Africans and the diaspora. the folks south of Kemet was also framed as chocolate Brown and licorice Black, Matter of fact ancient Kemet was not the only African civilization that showed some Africans as being chocolate Brown and their neighbors actually Black. Dahomey Battle scene, Dahomeans chocolate brown victorious over their Yoruba foes, both Dahomean and Yoruba are tropical west Africans, are recognizably Black today. Kushite traders/ businessmen on their way to Kmt note they are also Brown/Black. Everyday ordinary Kemetians at sport and work like their southern neighbors the Kushites shown above, they shade chocolate Brown to Licorice black. Another group of Kushites. Amenemhat II 12TH DYN. Mentuhoptep.II 12TH DYN.
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Post by khaled1991 on Sept 23, 2016 9:53:37 GMT -5
Here is the thing Khalad, Black as a color was used for some Kemitians also, and the precise term chocolate Brown which happened to be the color of most Africans and the diaspora. the folks south of Kemet was also framed as chocolate Brown and licorice Black, Matter of fact ancient Kemet was not the only African civilization that showed some Africans as being chocolate Brown and their neighbors actually Black. I totally understand that sir, Ancient Egyptians like the nubian and Kushites & all of them still to that day have some variety in skin tan. The pictures you begot her sir , actually pointing to what i was trying to clarify which is that ancient Egyptians were not typically look like Nubian & the people live southern in africa. There of course was people looks more like Nubians and have very dark tan living in ancient Egypt and there was also people of more lighter tan and have Egyptian face structure live in nubia and they appear in this picture "the second gay from the left" there was not a separate line back then they were adjacent civilization and people was moving between them due to trade slavery ...etc. and when you look sir , to the painting ancient egyptians was drawing and compare them to Kushites and nubians painting you sir showed us before. you can notice 2 noticeable differences between them. 1- the face structure is different in most of the paintings and it's easy to find that the ancient egyptians face structure fit to the one of the modern egyptians than to the Nubian which is fit to them the face structure in the nubian and Kushites paintings. 2- All of the paintings was have variety in skin tan in it but the ones of ancient Egypt has more lighter variety of tans which make a lot of since because they are live to the north of there nubian and Kushites Neighbors with less heated sun for thousands of years before the first density of Egypt get established in 3200 BC. I hope you sir understand the point i want to clarify and i hope to continue the discussion with you and with any one interested in the topic. Egyptian African and proud.
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Sept 23, 2016 12:11:52 GMT -5
@ Khaled. First off. Don't use Wiki and youtube as a source of your information. It shows you are lazy and lack the knowledge and research acumen.
Second, I am not angry. It comes off that way but I am not. I don't care enough what you "believe" to make me angry.
3rd. Analysis of the Amarnas show they are from south of the Sahara. Both in term of haplogroup and SNP. Don't read wiki read the actual study. Yes, the result is available.
4th. Most modern DNA testing has confirmed modern Egyptians are heavily admixed with Turks that arrived from 1300-1800AD!!
So, sorry it is delusional to think modern Egyptians are the same as AE.
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Sept 23, 2016 12:58:00 GMT -5
I am going to make some guesses here tell me if I am correct.
Lazaras, Dingo, Khaled, etc
1. Ages - 18-30 2. Almost did not finish high school. Probably attending some unknown 2 year college or tech school. 3. 10th grade analytical thinking 4. flunked the sciences at high school many times. 5. recently got intiated into a rcae hate group. 6. comingle only amongst yourselves and people of similar mind 7. Very little social skills.
How am I doing?
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Post by khaled1991 on Sept 23, 2016 13:05:07 GMT -5
I am going to make some guesses here tell me if I am correct. Lazaras, Dingo, Khaled, etc 1. Ages - 18-30 2. Almost did not finish high school. Probably attending some unknown 2 year college or tech school. 3. 10th grade analytical thinking 4. flunked the sciences at high school many times. 5. recently got intiated into a rcae hate group. 6. comingle only amongst yourselves and people of similar mind 7. Very little social skills. How am I doing? First of all I have to admit sir that it really sadness me the way the conversation between as are going. The way that you Insults me , is the evidence that what i say effected you and you began to see the truth but you are just can not accept it , That did not change it The painting on temples and papyrus will always clarifies how was the ancient egyptians looking and to whom they are related & i think nothing will change that no matter what. As for the questions you asked sir, 1- yes i'm 24 2- Actually i'm a junior architect graduated last year with a bachelor in Environmental Architecture 3- Of course not 4- No i was in the Mathematical Sciences department in my high school and i graduated with 86.5 % grad !! 5- No and will never be , i believe our human kind are one race god created us as one nation from the start , & i believe there is no such thing as pure race of blood , actually i'm in the left side in political terms. 6- No i know people from different religions , nationality , mentality ...etc & actually most of the times i get attracted to different people than me , because i love communicating. 7- Average There is my final words sir, Denying the truth when you see it , will not change it , it will just Contaminate your Heart & soul. I hope the best for you sir , really from my heart i mean it.
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Post by anansi on Sept 23, 2016 19:47:42 GMT -5
@ Khaled, phonotype itself like complexion varies in Kmt and other African nations south of the desert, matter of fact the area southwest is of utmost importance to both the peopling and formative culture of Kmt & Nahasi civilizations, there were a multi African presence in Kmt from the beginning, that included narrow featured and broad featured Africans, this does not mean they weren't related to each other and overlapped. yes over the years Kmt would receive migrants from outside Africa hence this study.. Today's Egyptians not identical to ancients The same link also goes into why "Nubians" more related to ancient Egyptians. . And let me ask you this, do you know where Ta-Seti is and it's significance to the later Kemetic state, do you know what the first nome or district was called or located, this is not meant to tie you up,but it is critical in understanding of what the forces were that went into making the Kemetic state, i'll give you time to make some research. Btw the link have references in them so you can cut & paste to see for yourself.
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Post by khaled1991 on Sept 24, 2016 6:28:07 GMT -5
@ anansi Thank you sir for hinting Ta-seti , The topic is interesting & i believe that Ta-seti civilization was have a big influence in the later Kemet state. As for the link you give to me sir, I actually do not find in it inconsistent Information to what i mentioned before. There is a study prove that the people in southern Egypt has conserved the trace of an ancestral genetic structure from an ancestral east African population. And that Nubian population , is likely to be more closely genetically related to the early Nile valley inhabitants than would be the Late Dynastic Egyptians, who likely experienced significant mixing with other Mediterranean populations.
All that sir i agree on it and i can not find in it any thing contrast with what i said before. and I believe that the first Egyptians came from east Africa What i'm against sir, is the idea some people promote to , that when the invaders specially Arabs came to Egypt they replace the native Egyptian and that ancient Egyptians had nothing to do with modern Egyptians & they will look like the people in central , east , west Africa. And those are false ideas , the people in lower Egypt was have relations with Semitic people even before the establishment of the first dynasty in Naqada III times they traded with Nubia to the south, the oases of the western desert to the west, and the cultures of the eastern Mediterranean and Near East to the east and that around 4000BC. And the thousands of years the Egyptian lived near the Nile away from Their origin before dynasty and their Foreign relations with the people from the eastern Mediterranean was quite Enough to add more variety and changes in the look of ancient Egyptians & that happens to all the people who immigrate to other places & make relations with different people after thousands of years.
And that describe the variety of skin tone and face structure that we found in ancient Egyptian paintings, which represents in most of it different face structure from the people of kush.
There is no such a thing as ethnic cleansing happened in Egypt & there is no separate line between races , it's always gradient , It's a bit Tricky for us who live in lower and center Egypt to different between the Nubian and upper Egyptian. And if you come to Egypt and visit Aswan and start a journey from a Nubian village south of the high dam to the north you will find a beautiful gradient of skin tones and face structures as you go north and you will can not notice the different when you move from a village to the next until you go to Alexandria on the Mediterranean sea which in it the people have closer looks to that of south European.
Cheers & peace to all , and i'm to happy for the conversation with you sir.
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Post by anansi on Sept 24, 2016 7:55:58 GMT -5
@ anansi Thank you sir for hinting Ta-seti , The topic is interesting & i believe that Ta-seti civilization was have a big influence in the later Kemet state. As for the link you give to me sir, I actually do not find in it inconsistent Information to what i mentioned before. There is a study prove that the people in southern Egypt has conserved the trace of an ancestral genetic structure from an ancestral east African population. And that Nubian population , is likely to be more closely genetically related to the early Nile valley inhabitants than would be the Late Dynastic Egyptians, who likely experienced significant mixing with other Mediterranean populations. All that sir i agree on it and i can not find in it any thing contrast with what i said before. and I believe that the first Egyptians came from east Africa What i'm against sir, is the idea some people promote to , that when the invaders specially Arabs came to Egypt they replace the native Egyptian and that ancient Egyptians had nothing to do with modern Egyptians & they will look like the people in central , east , west Africa. And those are false ideas , the people in lower Egypt was have relations with Semitic people even before the establishment of the first dynasty in Naqada III times they traded with Nubia to the south, the oases of the western desert to the west, and the cultures of the eastern Mediterranean and Near East to the east and that around 4000BC. And the thousands of years the Egyptian lived near the Nile away from Their origin before dynasty and their Foreign relations with the people from the eastern Mediterranean was quite Enough to add more variety and changes in the look of ancient Egyptians & that happens to all the people who immigrate to other places & make relations with different people after thousands of years. And that describe the variety of skin tone and face structure that we found in ancient Egyptian paintings, which represents in most of it different face structure from the people of kush. There is no such a thing as ethnic cleansing happened in Egypt & there is no separate line between races , it's always gradient , It's a bit Tricky for us who live in lower and center Egypt to different between the Nubian and upper Egyptian. And if you come to Egypt and visit Aswan and start a journey from a Nubian village south of the high dam to the north you will find a beautiful gradient of skin tones and face structures as you go north and you will can not notice the different when you move from a village to the next until you go to Alexandria on the Mediterranean sea which in it the people have closer looks to that of south European. Cheers & peace to all , and i'm to happy for the conversation with you sir. We are in fact not polar opposite in opinion, and please understand we have had many ppl who are hostile and trollish to what we are doing here so some may take an aggressive posture after repeating over and over again for yrs, settled answers to questions that should have been buried long ago, the question of how Blk the Kemetians were is either here nor there, when ppl posed the question.. were the Kemetians black or white the answer should be..they were biologically and culturally African who were similar and dissimilar to their closest neighbors out of the tropics. And another thing tropically adapted ppl did not stop in Egypt but continued into the Levant and beyond where they met cold adapted folks and mixed but were at no time absent, since the dawn of time, the Semitic speaking ppl is one such, they got their start in east Africa and spread outwards where they encountered others, in this sense Semitic speakers is a language with many kinds of ppl speaking it, some of the oldest form it is in East Africa, some are tempted to see Semitic speakers as a certain phenotype but that would be as simplistic as saying all English speakers shared the same phenotype as an original Englishman. While this is in no way scientific and should not be used as real genealogy, it non the least underscore the ancients attempt to class ppl by who they thought should be related, by eyeballing them, hence we get the Begets. Shinar is Sumer , the only reason they classed the two as being related is because they appeared alike..ie Black or dark.but all these ppl were Semites except for the Sumerians who were a different language group, but apparently Black and self identified as such, the reality Semites could be pale yellowish, dark brown and even Black. The later Greeks had a similar response to ppl living in Africa and west Asia and the Levant which I and at least one other person here think it is rightfully greater Africa , as they called some of them eastern and Western Ethiopians ie "burnt faces"..difference to them is hair type. And I agree ethnic cleansing did not took place but intermixing did as it did in Sudan and other areas of Africa.
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Post by khaled1991 on Sept 24, 2016 9:27:42 GMT -5
@ anansi
I'm glad sir, that i did this conversation with you & that we found a common ground. And thank for all the information you told me.
Cheers & peace to all
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Post by history91 on Sept 25, 2016 20:34:11 GMT -5
* According to this recent study modern Egyptians are 80% non-African and 20% African. And the non-African admixtures are dated to around 750 years ago. Well, after the foundation of Ancient Egypt or the precursor cultures (Badarians, Tasians, Nabta Playa, etc). quote: Using ADMIXTURE and principal-component analysis (PCA) (Figure 1A), we estimated the average proportion of non-African ancestry in the Egyptians to be 80% and dated the midpoint of the admixture event by using ALDER20 to around 750 years ago (Table S2), consistent with the Islamic expansion and dates reported previously. www.cell.com/ajhg/abstract/S0002-9297(15)00156-1
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