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Post by djoser-xyyman on May 27, 2014 12:37:53 GMT -5
There is at least 10times more older SSA haplogroups than the notorious slave E1b1a(E3a)1!!!
1. I was surprised to see the high frequency of African male lineage in Iberia(Portugal). The presence of sub-saharan A and E1 in Northern and Southern Portugal points to an ubiquitous presence of African hunters migrants going back probably to the first exit of AMH OOA!!
Suprisely the finding from these studies are not discussed more. The surprisng disclosure is the presence of root haplo-groups such as A, C, F and G. There is even hg-Q. This proof that AMH exited also through Northern Africa.
I wonder if LA Brana is related, keeping in mind LA Brana male line is hg-D*
Gonçalves, R; Freitas, A; Branco, M; Rosa, A; Fernandes, AT; Zhivotovsky, LA; Underhill, PA; Kivisild, T; Brehm, A (2005), "Y-chromosome Lineages from Portugal, Madeira and Açores Record Elements of Sephardim and Berber Ancestry",
However, three groups have been the focus for vigorous debate over their contribution to the present-day Portuguese genetic gene pool: the Sephardim Jews, the Arab–Berbers and the sub-Saharans. Jews are known to have inhabited the IP since at least the 3rd century AD. Berbers from Mauritania started to expand into IP in 711 AD.
3. Results and conclusions
The Portuguese J1 microsatellite combined haplotypes is consistent with the Cohen Modal Haplotype, this supports the view that Portuguese J1 lineages are not due to Arab gene flow, and could have entered the country independently, possibly with Sephardim and/or other Near East peoples.
Half of the Portuguese E3b2 is shared with Berber and/or Arab speaking populations from Morocco [13], and the age variation here is actually identical to that of North Africa (8.1F3.2 ky vs. 8.6F2.3 ky).
These findings suggest a flow of Berber-related lineages into the male Portuguese population. Typically sub-Saharan lineages represented by haplogroups A and E1 are virtually absent in European populations [10] and Northwest Africa, although E1 is found among Berbers [12].
The presence of both A and E1 haplogroups may be independent from the slave trade, suggesting A PRE-NEOLITHIC MIGRATION FROM NORTH AFRICA.
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Post by anastasiaescrava on May 27, 2014 13:25:20 GMT -5
So, are you suggesting the first people to inhabit Europe (Iberian peninsula) were indigenous North Africans?
Then, they intermixed with incoming peoples from the caucus resulting in the modern day Mediterranean people?
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Post by djoser-xyyman on May 27, 2014 15:26:23 GMT -5
That is a loaded question. May be you should rephrase it.(wink) But let me try without entangling myself. First . What peoples from the Caucasus ? 2nd . What is a Mediterranean people?. There are two sides of the Mediterranean Sea. But really it is circular. Africans and Europeans. Which one are you referring to? As you can see (strictly from the female side). The dominant haplogroup for Europeans were hg-U during pre-Neolithic times, Paleolithic times. Hg-H essentially replaced hg-U. Can you now rephrase your question? .  So, are you suggesting the first people to inhabit Europe (Iberian peninsula) were indigenous North Africans? Then, they intermixed with incoming peoples from the caucus resulting in the modern day Mediterranean people? |
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Post by anastasiaescrava on May 27, 2014 16:22:09 GMT -5
That is a loaded question. May be you should rephrase it.(wink) But let me try without entangling myself. First . What peoples from the Caucasus ? 2nd . What is a Mediterranean people?. There are two sides of the Mediterranean Sea. But really it is circular. Africans and Europeans. Which one are you referring to? As you can see (strictly from the female side). The dominant haplogroup for Europeans were hg-U during pre-Neolithic times, Paleolithic times. Hg-H essentially replaced hg-U. Can you now rephrase your question? . So, are you suggesting the first people to inhabit Europe (Iberian peninsula) were indigenous North Africans? Then, they intermixed with incoming peoples from the caucus resulting in the modern day Mediterranean people? 1. What I meant about the "Caucasus" is basically the people who came to inhabit Europe and eventually become "Europeans". Weren't they from there? 2. I mean people from countries like Italy, Spain, Portugal etc... What I'm trying to ask is that were Africans the first to inhabit some of the southern parts of Europe (IP)? I'm not good on genes, haplotypes, and things of that matter so you gotta break it down in laymen terms. |
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Post by djoser-xyyman on May 27, 2014 18:50:51 GMT -5
For those who like pictures.. Notice the widespread presence of A and E1. Also E1b1b*. Unlike E1b1a which is localized.  |
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Post by djoser-xyyman on May 27, 2014 18:59:59 GMT -5
The data consistently shows...there is no such thing as races. Euroepans are an admixture of Africans that left the continent a long long long time ago and Africans that recently entered the continent about 2000-6000ya.(Neolithich times). This is further illustrated in this TreeMix genetic chart. The black lines are "old" migrants. The light/yellow lines are "recent" African migrants to Europe. I contend the entry points were NOT from the middle East.  That is a loaded question. May be you should rephrase it.(wink) But let me try without entangling myself. First . What peoples from the Caucasus ? 2nd . What is a Mediterranean people?. There are two sides of the Mediterranean Sea. But really it is circular. Africans and Europeans. Which one are you referring to? As you can see (strictly from the female side). The dominant haplogroup for Europeans were hg-U during pre-Neolithic times, Paleolithic times. Hg-H essentially replaced hg-U. Can you now rephrase your question? . 1. What I meant about the "Caucasus" is basically the people who came to inhabit Europe and eventually become "Europeans". Weren't they from there? 2. I mean people from countries like Italy, Spain, Portugal etc... What I'm trying to ask is that were Africans the first to inhabit some of the southern parts of Europe (IP)? I'm not good on genes, haplotypes, and things of that matter so you gotta break it down in laymen terms. |
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Post by anastasiaescrava on May 29, 2014 18:19:40 GMT -5
The data consistently shows...there is no such thing as races. Euroepans are an admixture of Africans that left the continent a long long long time ago and Africans that recently entered the continent about 2000-6000ya.(Neolithich times). This is further illustrated in this TreeMix genetic chart. The black lines are "old" migrants. The light/yellow lines are "recent" African migrants to Europe. I contend the entry points were NOT from the middle East. 1. What I meant about the "Caucasus" is basically the people who came to inhabit Europe and eventually become "Europeans". Weren't they from there? 2. I mean people from countries like Italy, Spain, Portugal etc... What I'm trying to ask is that were Africans the first to inhabit some of the southern parts of Europe (IP)? I'm not good on genes, haplotypes, and things of that matter so you gotta break it down in laymen terms. Hmmmm.... I see we aren't on the same page here.. Let me rephrase this. I know "Races" don't exist and let's go with premise that "Europeans" are mixed population. Was there any other groups in Europe before the mixed "European" populations arrived? |
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