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Post by truthteacher2007 on Sept 6, 2014 10:43:54 GMT -5
I came upon this documentary promotional video by accident. I really want to see it. I think it touches on something that I've tried to express before and that is the importance of having a spiritual connection that honors who we are and our reality. I find it puzzling that so many of us embrace the notion of Afrocentricity, (not afro superiority), the concept that our traditions, history, world view should be central to our way of life and existence, but somehow, quite often, the thought of embracing our ancestral spiritual practices is left out of the mix. Unless it's an attempt to embrace Kemetic spirituality, the notion of practicing the traditions of our actual blood relatives is viewed with suspicion, fear etc. Far more of us, who profess the need to get back to our roots, still feel that only outside traditions, Christianity and Islam are valid form of spirituality. Quite often we side step the issue by emphasizing the similarities of these traditions with Kemetic practices to say that these are really African traditions. But in my opinion, why take on that which borrowed from the sources rather than going directly to the source? Why try to resurrect traditions that died out rather than practice that which is still alive and never died? Why place so much value of the practice of Kemit making them the mother and father when in fact they were only one of the children of a much older parent? We look at the similarities around the world with other traditions, but why should we be surprised? If life and humanity originated in Africa, doesn't it also stand to reason that the first recognition of the divine originated in the hearts and minds of those Africans and was carried out as they migrated around the world. Therefore, why should we be surprised to find echos in Greco, Hindu, Hebrew traditions? Why should we be surprised to find strong similarities with shamanistic practices in Mongolia, Japan, Korea or amoungst the Native peoples of the Americas? Even more importantly, why is it that so many people can see the value, beauty and merits in Native American spiritual practices, Yoga, Tai Chi, and seek to embrace it and incorporate it into their lives, but yet if one says they practice Vodu, or If a, people get accused of devil worship? Why is Tibeten or Native American Shamanism "New Age", but the exact same practies and philosophies that exist all over Africa are at best mumbo jumbo and at worse satanic? Any way, here's the trailer and the website. What do you think? Ancestral Voices |
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Post by nebsen on Sept 7, 2014 4:10:10 GMT -5
I agree,but i have seen many times, symbols of the worlds religions, those that are still functioning, & not, & have never but once, seen a symbol to represent an African worldview of spirituality, & the symbol was the Ankh ,in a book I have called " Sacred Mirrors" . I personally have had friends who were practitioners of Yoruba , Santeria, & Voodun . Even spent some time in Haiti to try & get a better understanding of Voodun many years ago. Great subject, that needs more exploration.
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Post by truthteacher2007 on Sept 7, 2014 10:57:22 GMT -5
I agree,but i have seen many times, symbols of the worlds religions, those that are still functioning, & not, & have never but once, seen a symbol to represent an African worldview of spirituality, & the symbol was the Ankh ,in a book I have called " Sacred Mirrors" . I personally have had friends who were practitioners of Yoruba , Santeria, & Voodun . Even spent some time in Haiti to try & get a better understanding of Voodun many years ago. Great subject, that needs more exploration. I don't quite understand the first part of your post. Do you mean that you don't see any similarities in other religions to African concepts of spirituality? Could you share some of your observations and points of view about what you learned from your research in Haiti? What did you come away with? |
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Post by nebsen on Sept 7, 2014 16:19:00 GMT -5
I agree,but i have seen many times, symbols of the worlds religions, those that are still functioning, & not, & have never but once, seen a symbol to represent an African worldview of spirituality, & the symbol was the Ankh ,in a book I have called " Sacred Mirrors" . I personally have had friends who were practitioners of Yoruba , Santeria, & Voodun . Even spent some time in Haiti to try & get a better understanding of Voodun many years ago. Great subject, that needs more exploration. I don't quite understand the first part of your post. Do you mean that you don't see any similarities in other religions to African concepts of spirituality? Could you share some of your observations and points of view about what you learned from your research in Haiti? What did you come away with? Sorry it was very early in the morning & I was somewhat tired. What I meant is that a world religion those that have the greatest number of followers both from the past & present you never see a African world view of spirituality represented such as the Yin Yang symbol of the Taoism of China, or the symbol of the winged heart of Sufism the mystical side of Islam; which I had a close friend who practiced Sufism & yes, he was an A. A. The only time I have seen an African worldview (symbol) of spirituality as a world religion, was the symbol the Ankh to denote Aton. African worldview of spirituality has best been ancient Khemt, Egypt, for I believe, it distilled many elements from ancient Africa into a African worldview of spirituality that was disseminated into the ancient world & beyond. Remember the ancient Egyptians & it's cults was practiced all over the ancient world, esp. Greece & Rome, they have found shrines to Auset (Isis) In Britain, & France. The so called Black Madonnas are a relic of this. So African spirituality has had a global impact, but because it is very defused & many don't know the roots in which the their religion has pulled from , don't understand Africa's contributions , example the word" Amen" behind every sermon & prayer . I went to Haiti seeking answers when I was still somewhat young, in the 70's & I'm glad I did , I will have to go into that experience in another post . I will say this, their was a movement in the 90's in this country to explore the world of" Shamanism" in which Africa is well represented, & for me, one of those voices was Malidoma Patrice Some' who is African, his book "The Healing Wisdom Of Africa": finding life Purpose Through Nature, Ritual, & Community, I highly recommend, along with his other book "Of Water & Spirit". This is a very deep & broad topic, which I look forward in sharing in with others of ESR. |
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Post by truthteacher2007 on Sept 7, 2014 21:55:15 GMT -5
I don't quite understand the first part of your post. Do you mean that you don't see any similarities in other religions to African concepts of spirituality? Could you share some of your observations and points of view about what you learned from your research in Haiti? What did you come away with? Sorry it was very early in the morning & I was somewhat tired. What I meant is that a world religion those that have the greatest number of followers both from the past & present you never see a African world view of spirituality represented such as the Yin Yang symbol of the Taoism of China, or the symbol of the winged heart of Sufism the mystical side of Islam; which I had a close friend who practiced Sufism & yes, he was an A. A. The only time I have seen an African worldview (symbol) of spirituality as a world religion, was the symbol the Ankh to denote Aton. African worldview of spirituality has best been ancient Khemt, Egypt, for I believe, it distilled many elements from ancient Africa into a African worldview of spirituality that was disseminated into the ancient world & beyond. Remember the ancient Egyptians & it's cults was practiced all over the ancient world, esp. Greece & Rome, they have found shrines to Auset (Isis) In Britain, & France. The so called Black Madonnas are a relic of this. So African spirituality has had a global impact, but because it is very defused & many don't know the roots in which the their religion has pulled from , don't understand Africa's contributions , example the word" Amen" behind every sermon & prayer . I went to Haiti seeking answers when I was still somewhat young, in the 70's & I'm glad I did , I will have to go into that experience in another post . I will say this, their was a movement in the 90's in this country to explore the world of" Shamanism" in which Africa is well represented, & for me, one of those voices was Malidoma Patrice Some' who is African, his book "The Healing Wisdom Of Africa": finding life Purpose Through Nature, Ritual, & Community, I highly recommend, along with his other book "Of Water & Spirit". This is a very deep & broad topic, which I look forward in sharing in with others of ESR. Got it and I agree. I think there are several reasons for this. First of all, from the perspective of the ruling elite, it was necessary to degrade African spiritual expressions because the economy was dependent of African labor and the labor force had to be kept docile. Therefore, they had to be separated from their spirituality and have it replaced with one that empowered the world view and perspective of the ruling class. The same thing was done to the Native Americans, Hawaiians. However, I think the deamonization and eqation with devil worship in the minds of most people has to do with what happened in Haiti. Granted, there's no love lost for Jews, Muslims and Hindus, but they don't suffer from the same sense of danger as African practices do. Islam has a political stigma, but the fear that the Devil is going to get you is something that none of these other religions suffer from. I remember I showed up to work with my beads on and this girl almost shit her pants. The irrational fear. I also thing that for many of us, there is a fear of displeasing God, being punished, if we stepped away from the mainstream. We ourselves have been convinced that our ancestors were worshiping the Devil and evil spirits and so there's a deep internal conflict. On the one hand, Christianity was forced on us, used against us, but if we aren't Christians, then we're going to hell. Many of us have tried to throw that dynamic off by going to Islam, but Islam is safe because it's still "the same God", they believe in Jesus, just not in his divinity. In other words, its close enough to Christianity to feel safe. What is lacking in us is the realization that before Islam or Christianity or Judaism, our ancestors knew there was only one creator. I think that to reunite ourselves in this way is a major step in initiating emotional and spiritual healing. |
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Post by nebsen on Sept 8, 2014 0:12:42 GMT -5
Sorry it was very early in the morning & I was somewhat tired. What I meant is that a world religion those that have the greatest number of followers both from the past & present you never see a African world view of spirituality represented such as the Yin Yang symbol of the Taoism of China, or the symbol of the winged heart of Sufism the mystical side of Islam; which I had a close friend who practiced Sufism & yes, he was an A. A. The only time I have seen an African worldview (symbol) of spirituality as a world religion, was the symbol the Ankh to denote Aton. African worldview of spirituality has best been ancient Khemt, Egypt, for I believe, it distilled many elements from ancient Africa into a African worldview of spirituality that was disseminated into the ancient world & beyond. Remember the ancient Egyptians & it's cults was practiced all over the ancient world, esp. Greece & Rome, they have found shrines to Auset (Isis) In Britain, & France. The so called Black Madonnas are a relic of this. So African spirituality has had a global impact, but because it is very defused & many don't know the roots in which the their religion has pulled from , don't understand Africa's contributions , example the word" Amen" behind every sermon & prayer . I went to Haiti seeking answers when I was still somewhat young, in the 70's & I'm glad I did , I will have to go into that experience in another post . I will say this, their was a movement in the 90's in this country to explore the world of" Shamanism" in which Africa is well represented, & for me, one of those voices was Malidoma Patrice Some' who is African, his book "The Healing Wisdom Of Africa": finding life Purpose Through Nature, Ritual, & Community, I highly recommend, along with his other book "Of Water & Spirit". This is a very deep & broad topic, which I look forward in sharing in with others of ESR. Got it and I agree. I think there are several reasons for this. First of all, from the perspective of the ruling elite, it was necessary to degrade African spiritual expressions because the economy was dependent of African labor and the labor force had to be kept docile. Therefore, they had to be separated from their spirituality and have it replaced with one that empowered the world view and perspective of the ruling class. The same thing was done to the Native Americans, Hawaiians. However, I think the deamonization and eqation with devil worship in the minds of most people has to do with what happened in Haiti. Granted, there's no love lost for Jews, Muslims and Hindus, but they don't suffer from the same sense of danger as African practices do. Islam has a political stigma, but the fear that the Devil is going to get you is something that none of these other religions suffer from. I remember I showed up to work with my beads on and this girl almost ish her pants. The irrational fear. I also thing that for many of us, there is a fear of displeasing God, being punished, if we stepped away from the mainstream. We ourselves have been convinced that our ancestors were worshiping the Devil and evil spirits and so there's a deep internal conflict. On the one hand, Christianity was forced on us, used against us, but if we aren't Christians, then we're going to hell. Many of us have tried to throw that dynamic off by going to Islam, but Islam is safe because it's still "the same God", they believe in Jesus, just not in his divinity. In other words, its close enough to Christianity to feel safe. What is lacking in us is the realization that before Islam or Christianity or Judaism, our ancestors knew there was only one creator. I think that to reunite ourselves in this way is a major step in initiating emotional and spiritual healing. You have brought up several points that i somewhat agree with. One difference between Native Americans & Hawaiians is, that they still had the land in which their spirituality was derived from, we Africans on the other hand were ripped away from our lands that nourished them( us ) spiritually, & was in a new land that was very foreign to our ancestors. Whites like most fear any thing that they do not understand Thus African spirituality was very misunderstood. White people at this time & before were obsessed with " The Devil " & hell, so in meeting other with a different worldview & spirituality they projected on to these others their " Devil" & understanding of what evil was. Remember "White" is all things good, & divine &" Black" all things evil & loathsome to them , which they took literally, & applied it to Africans & other of a darker hue. We are really living in period of dynamic change & chaos, many are questing the meaning of life, including Black people , what worked in the 20th Century does not translate for many today, many are choosing to search out side of Christianity & Islam , while some are choosing Atheism in the Black community , for many see the ills of humankind linked to religion no matter the origin. we live in very interesting times , I always say. |
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Post by anansi on Sept 8, 2014 0:16:27 GMT -5
Another problem is the idea of sex,Abrhamic religions are mortified by the raw power of sex which is the only way we know that life as we know it came into being,but it's not the males who controls it or have the potential to control it it's the females,that's why stomping out the feminine principle is rife within in those religions, other religions/spirituality needed to be decimated, the subjugation of the mothers and the supreme right of the fathers had arrived,the great mother goddess had to give way,I said before in another thread that women were the first keepers of time based off their monthly cycles that men didn't necessarily connect sex to child birth,you got the urge,you walked away nine months later this lady is magically producing life,hence she was the only example of a giver of life or creator,the same goes for the animals after a time we figured out that we did have something to do with it and it was a slow decline for women folk from that time onward,we demand parity then superiority, the rhythmic dances in some of these rituals reminds Abrahamics of the powerful nature of the feminine that needed to be tamed,it also reminded them of their own non Abramhamic beginnings.
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Post by truthteacher2007 on Sept 8, 2014 9:45:07 GMT -5
Another problem is the idea of sex,Abrhamic religions are mortified by the raw power of sex which is the only way we know that life as we know it came into being,but it's not the males who controls it or have the potential to control it it's the females,that's why stomping out the feminine principle is rife within in those religions, other religions/spirituality needed to be decimated, the subjugation of the mothers and the supreme right of the fathers had arrived,the great mother goddess had to give way,I said before in another thread that women were the first keepers of time based off their monthly cycles that men didn't necessarily connect sex to child birth,you got the urge,you walked away nine months later this lady is magically producing life,hence she was the only example of a giver of life or creator,the same goes for the animals after a time we figured out that we did have something to do with it and it was a slow decline for women folk from that time onward,we demand parity then superiority, the rhythmic dances in some of these rituals reminds Abrahamics of the powerful nature of the feminine that needed to be tamed,it also reminded them of their own non Abramhamic beginnings. Speaking of African spirituality I was wondering when Bredda Anansi of the Akan was going to show up! You made a really good point. I think that we cannot divorce spiritual traditions from the cultures they evolve in, or rather, the world view of those cultures. In our traditions, there is no concept of male vs female for dominance because first of all, the supreme being is neither male or female. The personification of the nature forces, are both male and female. One cannot rule over the other because in nature there must be balance. In the Ifa tradition there are parables that tell of the chaos that happened when Ogun, feeling unappreciated withdrew to the depths of the forest, or when Oshun feeling slighted by the other orishas withdrew to the moon taking her sweet waters with her. The moral of these stories is that all must be respected because they have an integrat role to play in maintaining the fabric of life. We are all part of a whole. In the Abrahamic world view, the dynamic is one of dominion. The devine first creates man and places him in dominion of all of creation, then he creates woman and places her under his dominion. When he slips up and listens to her advise, the world is thrown into chaos. It's a very militaristic way of looking at the world. Even the road tosalvation has a militeristic tone to it, "my way or the highway. We are chosen, no one else. Only we count in the eyes of the devine, everyone else is an enemy". I think this is a reflection of the time when Cannanites, particularly Hebrews, werea small band of people hemmed in on all sides by much stronger entities. This insecurity is plainly expressed in the notion that they were special, chosen, had to be different, keep apart. We see examples of this mentality in other groups who've been made to feel like outsiders, for example the Roma, or as they are more commonly called Gypsies. Very insular, distrustful. This is why typicallywhen Abrahamics come in contact with other faiths, there is conflict, where as followers of other practices move on to kill each other over more important things like control of land and resources ;-) We all have a ways to go on our journey of evolution, but religion is not something we feel the need to squabble over. |
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Post by nebsen on Sept 8, 2014 14:48:38 GMT -5
In 2007 I got the book Mami Wata Vol. 2: Reclaiming the Ancient Mami Wata Vodoun History & Heritage Of The Diaspora. I was blown away by this high priestess & the wealth & breath of historical knowledge this Black women had to share. Whats the saying "The more you think you know, the more you find out you really know nothing". A very humbling experience reading this book !
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Post by anansi on Sept 9, 2014 18:46:27 GMT -5
 Another factor is it's unifying effect of it's spin-off in the America's especially Haiti where Boukman an escapee from the Jamaican slave system a British colony would find himself in Haiti a French colony and unite with the locals there despite what I would consider a language divide,and jump start the Haitian rebellion whose success sent shock waves around the globe,minds are still coming to grips with it's consequences today,view Pat Robertson's remark after the Earth Quake in Haiti that his Christian God was punishing Haiti for making packs with the devil for revolting against their en-slavers,in his mind the African Gods/Goddess did not abandoned the Haitians like the Christian God did,and thus they had to be devils..I would asked him about the great San Francisco earth quake but??? |
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Post by nebsen on Sept 9, 2014 19:09:57 GMT -5
Would not take any thing Pat Robertson says seriously esp. when it concerning race, for he a demagogue !
Being somewhat a political junky, I have seen him most Sundays on political talk shows over the years. He can, & have said some pretty wacko things, while spinning his latest conspiracy theory. He has some what mellowed over the years, but bring up immigration, Black folks, or women's rights & he gets apoplectic ! I'm sure he wears a tee shirt with the Confederate flag on it, under his suit, LOL.
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Post by moses on Sept 15, 2014 13:47:20 GMT -5
"You have brought up several points that i somewhat agree with. One difference between Native Americans & Hawaiians is, that they still had the land in which their spirituality was derived from, we Africans on the other hand were ripped away from our lands that nourished them( us ) spiritually, & was in a new land that was very foreign to our ancestors. Whites like most fear any thing that they do not understand"
Nebsen,
True indeed.
Although many of our (modern) people, when they do decide to "go back" to a "native traditionalist" lifestyle do still have to struggle with the Christian dogma and accretions that have been attached to our culture(s); that is often a feat in and of itself, as many of these accretions are now taken for granted as being "native" and "traditional", when in fact, they are Judeo-Christian. My two cents from an Alaska Native POV. It seems to me, that once you peel away the thin veneer of Christainity in Vodun, Santeria, Candomble, etc. the African core is very obvious (?) Is this a correct assumption?
On another note, I have seen the term "Eyeball Anthropology" used on ESR and I think I know what it means (?) could someone clarify for me?
M.
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Post by truthteacher2007 on Sept 15, 2014 15:13:07 GMT -5
"You have brought up several points that i somewhat agree with. One difference between Native Americans & Hawaiians is, that they still had the land in which their spirituality was derived from, we Africans on the other hand were ripped away from our lands that nourished them( us ) spiritually, & was in a new land that was very foreign to our ancestors. Whites like most fear any thing that they do not understand" Nebsen, True indeed. Although many of our (modern) people, when they do decide to "go back" to a "native traditionalist" lifestyle do still have to struggle with the Christian dogma and accretions that have been attached to our culture(s); that is often a feat in and of itself, as many of these accretions are now taken for granted as being "native" and "traditional", when in fact, they are Judeo-Christian. My two cents from an Alaska Native POV. It seems to me, that once you peel away the thin veneer of Christainity in Vodun, Santeria, Candomble, etc. the African core is very obvious (?) Is this a correct assumption? On another note, I have seen the term "Eyeball Anthropology" used on ESR and I think I know what it means (?) could someone clarify for me? M. It'svery true that being uprooted presented us with many challenges. It was easier to retain things in certain areas more than others. In the Caribbean we often absorbed elements of Native traditions. I know this is true in Jamaica and Puerto Rico and I suspect it to be the case in Cuba and Haiti as well. Of the traditions that are strongest, Santaria, Candomble and Voudun, there was also an amalgamation of practices with other ethnic groups. Even the Yorubs were forced to blend within themselves. Back in Nigeria, each city venerated its own patron Oricha. If you were born in that City and you were chosen for the priesthood, you were initiated to that orisha. When you received your elekes, (necklace) you received that of your Cities orisha. In the new world, because of our circumstances, we receive 5 elekes when we are initiated into a lie, (house), these are usually Elegua, Obatala, Oshun, Yemaya, Chango. Depending on the house, you may receive six. I also received Oya. Initiated priests and priestesses have to know how to work with all of the orishas, not only their own. Your observation about the Catholic veneer is accurate. In the past, it was necessary to maintain this for survival. While there are many iles which still retain Catholic traits, there are many who have done away with them altogether. So even though what we have created is not exactly identical to the way Ifa is practiced in Nigeria, it's very close. All the prayers are in Yoruba, though an archaic version, all the rituals are the same, but there are some things that are different. For example, the ancestor shrines. We in the new world keep them in the home, in Africa, there is a dedicated shrine in the village for the ancestors. Obviously, this is not an option in the new world, especially now. In the past, it needed to be something that could be easily hidden and not cause suspicion and attention. The fact that practitioners also live great distances from one another makes a communat shrine impractical. The amazing thing about these traditions is their flexibility and it is this which has allowed them to survive and continue to evolve. |
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Post by moses on Sept 15, 2014 16:01:06 GMT -5
TT2007
Thank you for sharing that information about your faith, I appreciate it. I have always found those traditions to be nothing short of a miracle, given the brutality of the African Holocaust. Human spirituality is truly an amazing thing, and when it can survive such widespread efforts to dehumanize entire Peoples, it is hard to even find words to describe it. Wow. I am sure your ancestors will welcome you home to sit by the fire when this life's journey is over. My people believe that if we try to conduct ourselves in ways that honor our ancestors when we are on this Earth, we are welcomed back into their presence when we depart.
M.
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