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Post by Son of Ra on Oct 4, 2014 14:30:37 GMT -5
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Jan 17, 2018 15:42:35 GMT -5
Jan 2018 Now..doesn't this read like a bad fiction novel. Man I can't get over Europeans and their BS made stories they sell to the world. Am I the only one that can see through the BS. Lol! See if you can spot the BS? History buff/nerds can help me out here. I have a bridge to sell you. Lol This reads a like a bad novel. SMH. Man I am lucky I stuck to science and not become a history Major . What a load of crock!!! Am I the only one who has a problem with this story/ History is written by the victors. ..for real. Quote: "Ancient mitogenomes of Phoenicians from Sardinia and Lebanon: A story of settlement, integration, and female mobility - E. Matisoo-Smith 2018 They were skilled navigators whose trade networks extended throughout the entire Mediterranean basin, and they had taken an Egyptian-sponsored circumnavigation of Africa long before the Vikings ventured out of the sight of land [1, 2]. From their homeland in what is today Lebanon, the Phoenicians sailed extensively across the Mediterranean for trade and established settlements in Cyprus, Malta, Sicily, Sardinia, Ibiza, the Iberian Peninsula and along the North African coast, most notably, Carthage (Fig 1). Their naval dominance was respected throughout the Mediterranean, and they provided maritime support to the Persians and the Egyptians. Despite their enduring influence, scant historical documentation attributed directly to the Phoenicians exists. Most of the Phoenician historic documents were written on papyrus, and have not survived or been discovered yet. What we do know of them is what others, the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians wrote about them. They were never a unified political state or distinct ethnicity within their homeland [3]. The emerging coastal city-states of Byblos and Sidon thrived as maritime trade centers during the 3rd and 2nd millennia BCE and later, the city of Tyre. During the 1st millennium BCE their occupants were referred to by the Greeks, and thus today, as the Phoenicians (from the Greek, Phoiníkē, or purple country) in reference to their production of the valuable purple dye used in textile production. Prior to this, however, the region was occupied by Canaanites who, due to political events in the north, south and east were confined to the thin coastal strip between the steep, cedar covered mountains of Lebanon and the eastern Mediterranean [3]. This coastal isolation meant that Phoenicians could only expand westwards, and this they did. Targeting sources of valuable metals including silver and tin, they established settlements across the Mediterranean and dominated maritime trade networks for centuries."
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Jan 17, 2018 15:43:52 GMT -5
Now let us analyzed the genetic makeup of these ancient Saharans who Europeans label the "Phoenicians" . BTW I have a thread on ESR also on these people created about 2 years ago. But let us look at the 2018 paper
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So the story is the Phoenicians were hired by the AEians to map out Africa and Southern Europe . But there is no document existing proving that. In fact there is very little evidence of a "Phoenician Nation" because the country is so small yet this non-existent nation were high tech sea navigators. But you know what. All their documents were destroyed. Lol! But trust Europeans...they existed. The Phoenicians could only expand westwards..really? Ha! Ha! Ha! And built large cities everywhere else except...you guessed it. Phoenicia!!! Lol!
Largest Phoenicians complexes is not in Lebanon but...AFRICA!!! And Islands off the coast of Africa. History is written by the Victors...for real.
So much for BS.
But here is what really happened. The expanding Sahara desert dissipated a large group of people where they migrated to new lands and built their cities . Simple. That is why all these civilizations are so similar. That is why the aDNA will shows these Island civilization are related to North Africans. And the Source of the Sahara pool is......get ready for it. Great Lakes and points further south! Why? Read Skoglund 2017
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Jan 17, 2018 15:44:27 GMT -5
Anyone else find this paper comical? The title of the paper makes you think these are Phoenicians but these are really Sardinians. The Table 1 is very deceptive. Only 3 samples(not 16) are of "Phoenicians". Lol! The other results were "not acceptable". Lol! SMH. The analysis is difficult. (wink) unpublished results. SMH So the two "Phoenicians" results are mtDNA H and R0a2n. T2b3-+151 is suspect. So really the data table are Sardinians not Phoenicians. That is why you need to READ these resreach papers carefully. DECEPTION! DECEPTION! DECEPTION! DECEPTION! I wonder what the result of the other 13 samples were. "unpublished results" Quote: "From the 16 ancient Lebanese samples processed, a total of four complete ancient mitogenomes from three archaeological sites were ****considered acceptable*** in terms of their coverage (at least 3x), and showing appropriate damage patterns and no significant level of contamination, The soils from the Saifi site appeared to be moist, which may explain the poor results (0/4) from that site. Previous attempts to recover aDNA results from samples from a wet part of site BEY 198 (next to a well) were all unsuccessful (unpublished data). The Monte Sirai samples were all recently (2015) excavated and collected with the expressed purpose of aDNA analysis. Most of the graves were pits dug into the tuff (natural rock soil) that were closed, covered by stone"
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Jan 17, 2018 15:45:10 GMT -5
Here is where the rubber hits the road. Remember mtDNA H has a Paleolithic presence in Africa . Kefi et al.
The author is not putting his reputation on the line claiming mtDNA H has European origin. Now, answer me this. If 60% of the mtDNA in Europe is NOT European in origin what does that make 60% of modern Europeans. He! He! He! Twisted people!
----- Quotes: " Haplogroup H The most common haplogroup seen in our ancient Lebanese and Sardinian samples was the superhaplogroup H, identified in 7 of 14 samples (50%). Two of the four ancient Lebanese samples belong to haplogroup H (sub-groups H and H34) and a third belongs to the sister
No H3 lineages were found in our ancient or modern Lebanese samples. Its presence in Sardinia in ancient samples (both pre-Phoenician and Phoenician), combined with the diversity seen in the modern Sardinian population is consistent with at least a Neolithic introduction to the island if not pre-Neolithic [15]. Haplogroup HV is also an ancient European lineage, likely originating in the Mediterranean region during the LGM and has been identified in early Neolithic remains from Spain [44]. However, to date, most studies on haplogroup H and its subgroups reveal a very complex tree structure and more mitogenome data is needed before any conclusion can be made with certainty about the origin and date of the H subgroups" ----
So what can we conclude? Another lie told be Europeans exposed. There never was a Phoenician civilization. They did not want to admit these were Africans building cities in Africa, Islands off Africa and Southern Europe. Everywhere else but Africa even distant Lebanon. But NOT Africa SMH.
BTW for clarity. The genetic data shows the ancient population of Lebanon/Phoenicia are NOT related to ancient Sardinia population who they claim are Phoenicians.
It looks like they essentially destroyed all the ancient Lebanese samples except what they can use ie spin their BS. And that was not good enough. Man such unconscionable people.....some of them
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Jan 17, 2018 15:45:51 GMT -5
In summary what have they done in this research paper?
They had two groups of samples. Ancient Sardinians and ancient Lebanon(Phoenicians). These said that most of the ancient Lebanese samples were no good(threw it out) and obtained data from ONLY 4. The 4 was similar to “Eurasians”. My guess is the ones they threw out were NOT Eurasians mtDNA. (wink!)
However they were “lucky” and obtained >30 samples for the ancient Sardinians. Being European slickers they combined the 4 from ancient Lebanon and with ancient Sardinians and called the entire group “Phoenicians” . But being the delusional people they are they admit that ancient Lebanese and ancient Sardinians are unrelated but insist on calling the group Phoenicians . They share no mtDNA Haplotypes. NONE!! Not only that the haplotypes are closer to modern North Africans the geographically closest population to Sardinia. In fact the haplogroups found in these ancient Sardinians have a Neolithic and pre-Neolithic presence so how can these be “Phoenicians”? Tsk! Tsk! Europeans and their lies and delusion. They can’t help themselves.
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Post by kel on Jan 17, 2018 20:25:06 GMT -5
"The Phoenicians supposedly traded and supposedly helped build Carthage and Iberian cities. To be frank, I am not sure if that is even possible ….today. The manpower and amount of ships it would take is mind boggling. And why do it?"
You are correct. These settlements/cities existed before (and may have later adopted and/or become Punic (if Phoenicians actually came from the east). Or perhaps the Phoenicians never came from the East at all and that was always a lie.
Example: Alexandria. Alexander the Great is always credited with founding Alexandria. But that is not the case. He renamed and expanded on an existing Egyptian city which was the focal point of Mediterranean trade for Egypt.
Perhaps you have discovered a Western Mediterranean African based civilization that has been hidden and obscured by the usual suspects.
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Post by kel on Jan 17, 2018 20:33:35 GMT -5
hahaha........just came to the same conclusion as you. I knew this from childhood. I never understood how such an important civilization such as the "Phoenicians" could have so little known about it .............this is clearly intentional. Either it never existed as such or its artifacts and history were destroyed.
We are dealing with African/African derived civilization that kicked off the civilizations that Euros wanted to claim as their own pure Euro civilization. remember Greek, Roman, and Hebrew letters come from the "phoenicians" - i.e. Saharan Africans who alphabetized Egyptian hieroglyphs.
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Post by kel on Jan 17, 2018 22:34:09 GMT -5
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Jan 18, 2018 9:21:41 GMT -5
Being schooled in Euro-Culture I believed what I was taught. Now I can see many of these teaching do not make sense and is written like a bad novel. There was no Civilization called the Phoenicians. Looking at the layout of these cities and the time these cities were built throughout North Africa, Mediterranean Islands and Southern tips of Europe, including Stonehenge. These people obviously had a similar culture and origin. These similarity in culture is indicative of thousands of years of “closeness”.
“ Phoenician” seafarers is obviously something dreamed up by the Power Elite to feed to the ignorant to remove these Civilization(s) from the African continent. It is logistically and chronologically impossible for the “Phoenicians” to build these civilizations. What is equally more disturbing is most historical “experts’ do not challenge or question the validity of a Phoenician civilization . Especially the black historians.
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Post by kel on Jan 18, 2018 11:02:06 GMT -5
Stonehenge ??
Please break down the related Meditereanean settlements and how they are connected to this common culture
Yes. It it hard for many to believe that Euros lie about so much but it is true and it takes time to recalibrate one's mind. They lie about EVERYTHING all the time. It is their dominant cultural value - the lie- as opposed to MAAT.
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Jul 21, 2019 18:27:14 GMT -5
I am not the only having a hard time believing this BS study, I am not the only one that caught the lies and deception
Mitochondrial DNA control region variation in Lebanon, Jordan, and -Bahrain Bettina Zimmermann July2019
ABSTRACT This study investigated the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) control region variation in Middle Eastern populations (610 individuals from Lebanon, Jordan and the Kingdom of Bahrain) for which population data are scarce. FST comparison among populations revealed that there are significant differences in mtDNA distributions between Bahrain and the two other populations, while Lebanon and Jordan showed no significant differences. This was also reflected by the distribution of the observed lineages that differed prominently between Bahrain and the other two investigated populations. Jordan and Lebanon fit the hitherto known genetic results of the Levant population. Data are available via EMPOP (https://empop.online) and GenBank.
3.2. Haplogroups Investigation of the hg compositions of the three Middle Eastern datasets revealed a clear difference between BHR and the two other populations. Sub-Saharan African lineages were observed in more than 25% in the BHR population (Figure S2a-c, Table S3), while those lineages were much less frequent in the LBN (3%) and JOR (8%) data. The presence of Sub-Saharan African L lineages in the Middle East has been mainly explained as a result of the historic Arab slave trade [23,24]. Conversely, the contribution of hg R0 was lower in BHR (21%) compared to LBN (36%) and JOR (28%), and consistent with its neighboring country, the United Arab Emirates [25], where R0 was observed at 20.5%.
3.2.1. Haplogroups in Lebanon Hg H (29%) was most dominant as also observed in other Westeurasian populations (e.g. [25]) followed by hg T (13%) and hg U (12%). The LBN sample set harbored a relatively high portion (8%) of hg X lineages, including the Phoenician associated hg X2b. This is interesting since [7] did not identify any X mitotypes in their modern Lebanese samples. However, it is known that this hg was found at relatively high frequencies in Druze from the Levant, where it reached frequencies of up to 15% [26]. Another interesting feature of this dataset was the presence of a T2b3 + 151 mitotype. This particular hg was also not observed in the modern Lebanese dataset from [7]. However, it was observed in an ancient tooth sample recovered from a Lebanese archaeological site [7].
3.2.3. Haplogroups in Bahrain In BHN we observed a significant portion of hg L lineages (25%), most likely due to historic slave trade. Lineages L2 and L3 were found 10 times each in the dataset, together with three L1, and one L5b lineages. Hg L0 lineages were exclusively found in Bahrain (6 times). Hgs U3 and U6 were found within the second most common cluster, hg U (16%). Within hg U a relatively high portion of hg U7a was found. U7a is known as the dominant U7 branch throughout the Near East [30] and is likely to have originated in the higher caste populations of India in relatively recent times [31]. Further, South Asian lineages M2, M3, M4, M6, M18, M30, M39, M65 were observed (11%), in addition to five East African M1a1 mitotypes. The composition of cluster R0 within the
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