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Post by MorolongDithabeng on Sept 10, 2015 5:21:16 GMT -5
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Post by MorolongDithabeng on Sept 10, 2015 5:30:29 GMT -5
Homo Naledi enca linkDinaledi Cave, South Africa When an amateur caver and university geologist arrived at Lee Berger's house one night in late 2013 with a fragment of a fossil jawbone in hand, they broke out the beers and called National Geographic. Berger, a professor at the University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg, South Africa, had unearthed some major finds before. But he knew he had something big on his hands. What he didn't know at the time is that it would shake up our understanding of the progress of human evolution and even pose new questions about our identity. Two years after they were tipped off by cavers plumbing the depths of the limestone tunnels in the Dinaledi Chamber at Maropeng, Berger and his team have discovered what they say is a new addition to our family tree. The team is calling this new species of human relative "Homo naledi," and they say it appears to have buried its dead -- a behavior scientists previously thought was limited to humans. Berger's team came up with the startling theory just days after reaching the place where the fossils -- consisting of infants, children, adults and elderly individuals -- were found, in a previously isolated chamber within the cave. The team believes that the chamber, located 30 meters underground in the Cradle of Humanity world heritage site, was a burial ground -- and that Homo naledi could have used fire to light the way. "There is no damage from predators, there is no sign of a catastrophe. We had to come to the inevitable conclusion that Homo naledi, a non-human species of hominid, was deliberately disposing of its dead in that dark chamber. Why, we don't know," Berger told CNN. "Until the moment of discovery of 'naledi,' I would have probably said to you that it was our defining character. The idea of burial of the dead or ritualized body disposal is something utterly uniquely human."
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Post by nebsen on Sept 10, 2015 14:59:50 GMT -5
Homo Naledi enca linkDinaledi Cave, South Africa When an amateur caver and university geologist arrived at Lee Berger's house one night in late 2013 with a fragment of a fossil jawbone in hand, they broke out the beers and called National Geographic. Berger, a professor at the University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg, South Africa, had unearthed some major finds before. But he knew he had something big on his hands. What he didn't know at the time is that it would shake up our understanding of the progress of human evolution and even pose new questions about our identity. Two years after they were tipped off by cavers plumbing the depths of the limestone tunnels in the Dinaledi Chamber at Maropeng, Berger and his team have discovered what they say is a new addition to our family tree. The team is calling this new species of human relative "Homo naledi," and they say it appears to have buried its dead -- a behavior scientists previously thought was limited to humans. Berger's team came up with the startling theory just days after reaching the place where the fossils -- consisting of infants, children, adults and elderly individuals -- were found, in a previously isolated chamber within the cave. The team believes that the chamber, located 30 meters underground in the Cradle of Humanity world heritage site, was a burial ground -- and that Homo naledi could have used fire to light the way. "There is no damage from predators, there is no sign of a catastrophe. We had to come to the inevitable conclusion that Homo naledi, a non-human species of hominid, was deliberately disposing of its dead in that dark chamber. Why, we don't know," Berger told CNN. "Until the moment of discovery of 'naledi,' I would have probably said to you that it was our defining character. The idea of burial of the dead or ritualized body disposal is something utterly uniquely human." I heard about this while getting ready for the day from my local NPR radio station ; & what a find ! It seems with each new find, scientist are finding behaviors only previously reserved for" humans". I personally think it's about" consciousness " independent of brain size, or any other mark that they try to define as only human. It has long been known that elephants grieve for their dead, & lovingly caress their loved ones bones , as they as a group give homage. It is so much that we( they) think they know, but in their arrogance, know very little, so why not just admit that ! |
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Post by anansi on Sept 10, 2015 19:26:16 GMT -5
Nice find Maropeng looking fwd to see the doc.
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Post by MorolongDithabeng on Sept 11, 2015 3:47:37 GMT -5
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Post by MorolongDithabeng on Sept 12, 2015 5:30:00 GMT -5
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Post by nebsen on Sept 13, 2015 15:55:32 GMT -5
What is he really saying ? I do understand about" African spirituality & world view", not even being considered in the debate, but for me it is like mixing apples & oranges. He's talking about " African Cosmology" which would be different from so called modern science. It sounds to me like he did not even understand about homo- naledi being on the evolutionary tree towards modern Homo sapiens. Mixing religion & science at this stage sounds confused. It reminds me of the statement of than president Embeki( sp )said about HIV /Aids being a conspiracy of the West, & therefor not real, while thousands died of Aids in South Africa. Than later said, that HIV/Aids should only use African traditional medicine to deal with the pandemic;on a personal level I feel African Traditional medicine always should be used along with modern medicine . I keep sensing a kneejerk reaction when it comes to any thing to do with western Science. In a way it is defeating the" stand up for what is African" by not using African scientist etc.to help in the debates instead of quasi people like this guy who is also a member of the political party in South Africa. |
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Post by MorolongDithabeng on Sept 15, 2015 6:43:13 GMT -5
What is he really saying ? I do understand about" African spirituality & world view", not even being considered in the debate, but for me it is like mixing apples & oranges. He's talking about " African Cosmology" which would be different from so called modern science. It sounds to me like he did not even understand about homo- naledi being on the evolutionary tree towards modern Homo sapiens. Mixing religion & science at this stage sounds confused. It reminds me of the statement of than president Embeki( sp )said about HIV /Aids being a conspiracy of the West, & therefor not real, while thousands died of Aids in South Africa. Than later said, that HIV/Aids should only use African traditional medicine to deal with the pandemic;on a personal level I feel African Traditional medicine always should be used along with modern medicine . I keep sensing a kneejerk reaction when it comes to any thing to do with western Science. In a way it is defeating the" stand up for what is African" by not using African scientist etc.to help in the debates instead of quasi people like this guy who is also a member of the political party in South Africa. All he is saying is that the straight-haired monkeys are not our ancestors (yours & mine) and available data seem to support Him but not as straight forward as you would like. That is why I sad "it is best we familiarize ourselves with the data that accompanies this find before we make any hideous suppositions", that includes the Dr himself because the data hints on what he is saying. Quote from theatlantic.com"It’s tempting to suggest that both species—A.sediba and H.naledi—were intermediate steps on straight evolutionary climb from Australopithecus to ourselves. But these are no “missing links.” Both may be mosaics, but they’re different mosaics. Each has different sets of australopith-like and human-like traits that can’t be easily reconciled on the same family tree. It’s especially difficult to do so because the team still haven’t dated the specimens—a fact that has vexed several other paleoanthropologists. “I am puzzled by the apparent lack of attempts to estimate its age,” wrote Chris Stringer from the Natural History Museum in London, in a related commentary." “If these fossils were three million years old they would tell us something totally different than if they were thirty thousand years old,” adds Carol Ward from the University of Missouri. “Without dates, the fossils reveal almost nothing about hominin evolution, beyond supporting the growing realization that there was much more species diversity than previously thought.” Australopithecus Sediba is an important find, but it's not the "missing link" |
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Post by nebsen on Sept 15, 2015 20:42:44 GMT -5
What is he really saying ? I do understand about" African spirituality & world view", not even being considered in the debate, but for me it is like mixing apples & oranges. He's talking about " African Cosmology" which would be different from so called modern science. It sounds to me like he did not even understand about homo- naledi being on the evolutionary tree towards modern Homo sapiens. Mixing religion & science at this stage sounds confused. It reminds me of the statement of than president Embeki( sp )said about HIV /Aids being a conspiracy of the West, & therefor not real, while thousands died of Aids in South Africa. Than later said, that HIV/Aids should only use African traditional medicine to deal with the pandemic;on a personal level I feel African Traditional medicine always should be used along with modern medicine . I keep sensing a kneejerk reaction when it comes to any thing to do with western Science. In a way it is defeating the" stand up for what is African" by not using African scientist etc.to help in the debates instead of quasi people like this guy who is also a member of the political party in South Africa. All he is saying is that the straight-haired monkeys are not our ancestors (yours & mine) and available data seem to support Him but not as straight forward as you would like. That is why I sad "it is best we familiarize ourselves with the data that accompanies this find before we make any hideous suppositions", that includes the Dr himself because the data hints on what he is saying. Quote from theatlantic.com"It’s tempting to suggest that both species—A.sediba and H.naledi—were intermediate steps on straight evolutionary climb from Australopithecus to ourselves. But these are no “missing links.” Both may be mosaics, but they’re different mosaics. Each has different sets of australopith-like and human-like traits that can’t be easily reconciled on the same family tree. It’s especially difficult to do so because the team still haven’t dated the specimens—a fact that has vexed several other paleoanthropologists. “I am puzzled by the apparent lack of attempts to estimate its age,” wrote Chris Stringer from the Natural History Museum in London, in a related commentary." “If these fossils were three million years old they would tell us something totally different than if they were thirty thousand years old,” adds Carol Ward from the University of Missouri. “Without dates, the fossils reveal almost nothing about hominin evolution, beyond supporting the growing realization that there was much more species diversity than previously thought.” Australopithecus Sediba is an important find, but it's not the "missing link"Here I posted a link tp the Nova special on PBS . I hope you can view the documentary for It fills in a lots of information that is missing from other info posted. what I object too is a member of government & his bias . Like I said, he is mixing apples & oranges . let the paleontologist debate where on the evolutionary tree this Homonine belongs, & the age. Scientist like paleontologist are very competitive , with big ego's & do not like to be upstaged by other paleontologist with new finds; so they are going to argue about this find for a while. I would have liked it better if they had a African Scientist, ( Black person) talking about this find, instead of this guy in the You-Tube video. In this documentary their a 2 brothers (Africans) Job Kibii, who actually worked on the skeleton( hands) of Homo naledi & Zeresenay Alemseged, who found 2 Homonine . I think they would have been better to speak on the matter. This guy in the video sounds like to my mind a religious fundamentalist . Yes, African cosmology can help in many ways, along with the Pyramid text & Shabako Stone & The Hermetica, but not with paleontology in this context. It's like Christian fundamentalist arguing the world was created in 7 days & along with Adam & Eve; this might be Ok for one's religious belief, but not for hard core science. He should be proud that this find was in Africa & South Africa at that. At one time paleontologist did not even consider Africa for such a find , they were looking in Europe & Asia ! This documentary can be seen on the PBS.org It's called Dawn Of Humanity & airs on PBS Sept 16 2015 |
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Post by MorolongDithabeng on Sept 16, 2015 9:45:24 GMT -5
He's got some valid points too you know, this Khemetic and Hermitic literature that he keeps referring to was written and put together by ancient Scientist and as you know, ancient scientist were in actual fact Priests of a particular order. The architects of the Pyramids and great temples were Priests, and the reason why we (Bantu) continue to respect the Batwa(pygmies) is because of research conducted by ancient scientist/priests. Why was there special interest in the Batwa? "Science is first and foremost a spiritual thing"
I for one also disagree with the notion that South Africa is the cradle of humankind, had the Sudan and Ethiopia (East Africa) not suffered under civil wars, they would have received the same attention that so called scientists who dig up skeletons give to Southern Africa.
Anyway, it is becoming increasingly difficult to discuss real African Spirituality with non-Africans, this includes Blacks in the diaspora. I will post another possible theory from a spiritual sect on how those Batwa bones ended up in that hard to rich place in the cave, and you tell me what you make of it. You gon luv this
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Post by nebsen on Sept 16, 2015 15:05:38 GMT -5
He's got some valid points too you know, this Khemetic and Hermitic literature that he keeps referring to was written and put together by ancient Scientist and as you know, ancient scientist were in actual fact Priests of a particular order. The architects of the Pyramids and great temples were Priests, and the reason why we (Bantu) continue to respect the Batwa(pygmies) is because of research conducted by ancient scientist/priests. Why was there special interest in the Batwa? "Science is first and foremost a spiritual thing" I for one also disagree with the notion that South Africa is the cradle of humankind, had the Sudan and Ethiopia (East Africa) not suffered under civil wars, they would have received the same attention that so called scientists who dig up skeletons give to Southern Africa. Anyway, it is becoming increasingly difficult to discuss real African Spirituality with non-Africans, this includes Blacks in the diaspora. I will post another possible theory from a spiritual sect on how those Batwa bones ended up in that hard to rich place in the cave, and you tell me what you make of it. You gon luv this i do understand about the ancient African spiritual beliefs & about the priest (scientist) of ancient Egypt; I studied about this with a group of other liked minded Black people( Africans) about 35 years ago . Sudan, & Ethiopia have been the locus of many digs & findings of Homonines by paleontologist going back many years ago ! Their seems to be a( New) interest in South Africa as The cradle of Humankind . I think to flip me & others in the diaspora off like you have done in your post is " short sighted"; saying it is difficult to discuss Real African Spirituality with non Africans including those of us in the diaspora is a" cop out" ! Africa lives inside of me, just like Africa lives inside of you, even though we are separated by thousands of miles & years , do to the" Slave Trade" I know you can do better than that. |
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Post by MorolongDithabeng on Sept 18, 2015 9:22:25 GMT -5
He's got some valid points too you know, this Khemetic and Hermitic literature that he keeps referring to was written and put together by ancient Scientist and as you know, ancient scientist were in actual fact Priests of a particular order. The architects of the Pyramids and great temples were Priests, and the reason why we (Bantu) continue to respect the Batwa(pygmies) is because of research conducted by ancient scientist/priests. Why was there special interest in the Batwa? "Science is first and foremost a spiritual thing" I for one also disagree with the notion that South Africa is the cradle of humankind, had the Sudan and Ethiopia (East Africa) not suffered under civil wars, they would have received the same attention that so called scientists who dig up skeletons give to Southern Africa. Anyway, it is becoming increasingly difficult to discuss real African Spirituality with non-Africans, this includes Blacks in the diaspora. I will post another possible theory from a spiritual sect on how those Batwa bones ended up in that hard to rich place in the cave, and you tell me what you make of it. You gon luv this i do understand about the ancient African spiritual beliefs & about the priest (scientist) of ancient Egypt; I studied about this with a group of other liked minded Black people( Africans) about 35 years ago . Sudan, & Ethiopia have been the locus of many digs & findings of Homonines by paleontologist going back many years ago ! Their seems to be a( New) interest in South Africa as The cradle of Humankind . I think to flip me & others in the diaspora off like you have done in your post is " short sighted"; saying it is difficult to discuss Real African Spirituality with non Africans including those of us in the diaspora is a" cop out" ! Africa lives inside of me, just like Africa lives inside of you, even though we are separated by thousands of miles & years , do to the" Slave Trade" I know you can do better than that. The place that I once wanted to visit but was told it was a no go zone due to rebel activities is around the red sands of the Somali Desert towards Somalia, The Horn of Africa. According to oral accounts this is where the actual Cradle of Humankind is situated. My apologies, but know by now that I often employ the science of communication in order to create the necessary context where never seen before information can thrive. How about; "it is becoming increasingly difficult to discuss African-American Spirituality with Africans". Most African Sanusis that visit America, are led by their spirit guides to visit the native American Shamans and not Black Americans. This is the gap I see and I'm earnestly in search of answers, why is this so? If you or anyone s'got answers please educate me. As an African American your spiritual life is informed by your immediate environment(locality), especially the flora and fauna. Your dream of a Grisly or Black bear has its own symbolic meaning but as an African, it is extremely rare to dream of these beasts (as in a million to one) because they are not indigenous to the Continent , and when it happens we often rely on the Spiritual knowledge of a Sangoma, Sanusi or Shaman to decipher its meaning. Do people like that exist within the African American communities, one that can be consulted? Another possible theory taken from available African and Aborigine beliefs The available postulation is that H.naledi actively deposited its dead into the chamber, which implies the use of fire by the pygmy hominin with its curved fingers. Now lets see if you can relate to the following Asians are not alone in the belief of Dragons, in Africa we do not only belief in Dragons (Kgwanyape) but in many other serpentine forms. These are called the Guardians or Watchers, whom it is believed, according to African Cosmology are the fallen ones/stars. These entities take different serpentine forms when they enter the earthly dimension just like we take the fleshly form of Adama. A commonly known guardian/watcher amongst the Bantu and Batwa/KhoiSan is the one know as 'Mmadipela', meaning "Guardian or mother of the hyraxes" The first thing that comes to mind when you see this Guardian is the image of a Doberman Pinscher or Lama with a shiny-smooth lizard skin, for it bares similar resemblance except for the hind legs which are replaced by a snake's body. Its teeth are like clear crystals, a trait it shares with common snakes    Above is a depiction of Mmadipela by San Bushmen   Depiction of Mmadipela by Native Americans "In the northern part of the San Rafael Swell (South-central Utah), southwest of Cedar Mountain and southeast of Castle Dale, a deep canyon cuts through the uplifted formations. Buckhorn Wash contains several rock art sites, including a spectacular and large Barrier Canyon Style panel. The site is on the ancient Spanish Trail and has been much vandalized, particularly by early explorers and settlers of the region."  Above is a depiction of 'Mmadipela' by Australian Aborigines The other Watcher/Guardian that dwell in mountain caves is 'Mogale'a makapa' meaning "the Brave scaly one" it is a serpentine entity which looks like a Pangolin, but on its head it has a protruding thick scale which looks like its wearing a cap.   ![]() Unlike Anacondas and Pythons, these Guardians do not swallow their quarry whole, they in turn are equipped with a specialized tongue which they use to suck the brains of Apes and humans alike. This is said to be the fate that the 15 Homonids suffered, but not all at once, this happened over a period of some 15-20 years, because these serpentine entities are said to can survive on a single brain meal for 24 months. Even to this day, we have religious groups in South Africa especially in the Kwazulu Natal province where members a believed to be abducted by water or mountain serpents/guardians/watchers. Does Mama Wita ring any bells? There is also report that there exist African Americans who know of this but we have not yet heard of in any formal report. |
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Post by MorolongDithabeng on Nov 12, 2015 7:49:49 GMT -5
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Post by MorolongDithabeng on Apr 29, 2016 9:17:53 GMT -5
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Post by MorolongDithabeng on May 9, 2017 8:54:23 GMT -5
Humanity's mystery new cousin is surprisingly young: 335,000-year-old fossils of Homo naledi transform our understanding of human evolution Homo naledi fossils were first discovered in the South African caves in 2013 Remains of three new individuals have now been found in another chamber Bones are 335,000 and 236,000 years old, making them younger than thought Researchers believe the homo naledi could have been hoarding the dead They say that this is a sign of intelligence and could be the 'deepest roots of human cultural practices' Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4485350/Uncovering-mystery-Homo-naledi.html#ixzz4gabovCkC  Ask yourself these questions: 1. "Did this primitive Homo species really carry their dead though these narrow crevices (superman's crawl & dragon's neck) in utter darkness"? 2. "Using their partially curved fingers, did they make fire or some form of lantern to light their way"? That would take some seriously intelligent coordinated moves to crawl through some narrow passages, climb up carrying dead weight, while insuring your source of light does not burn out. |
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