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Post by nebsen on Oct 16, 2017 22:14:40 GMT -5
The donkey harvesting videos are upsetting, and while there should be no buts..there is some, a few yes back there was this video, about how the meat industry treated animals almost drove me to become a vegan. The other vids,with a positive spin show that the relationship is bound to be a complex one. Anansi, I was wondering if you were going to weigh in on this issue. I hear & feel you about becoming a vegan, I have been for the past months. lately have been eating meats & feeling like i want to throw up ; I ate a chop a while back & could smell, & it tasted like a thousands slaughter houses in that chop, it was unsettling . Chicago was known for its stock yards which smelled to high heaven within a mile or so. Had a close buddy who made it a career working in meat packing , near the yards. The issue with the donkeys hit a nerve with me. I took a cab last week & a sister with long dreads was my driver; we got to talking she told me her parents were from Ethiopia & she was 1st generation Ethiopian America she looked to be in her 40's she said she had 2 boys, we talked about Africa, & what was going on on the continent . She was a very conscience aware sister. I even told her about ESR & my post about the donkeys, she knew all about the issue , & told me that Ethiopia with a couple of other African countries( which is discussed in second video about the donkeys) put a ban on China from coming onto Ethiopia buying up millions of donkeys . She had some choice words about China in Africa & the Africans leaders who really don't give a dam as long as they are getting theirs & staying in power for life. It was" a breath of fresh air" to meet such an aware black women who understood my concerns , we discussed the African & African American divide She even told me she hoped to run into me again, & it was mutual !! This let me know that others are paying attention to China in Africa. Thank you for your understanding the relationship is a complex one that's why we got to stay on the case !!
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Post by kel on Oct 17, 2017 18:16:58 GMT -5
but my main concern is China In Africa.
why ?? there is nothing to be concerned about.
1. China has no capacity to "defend" its interests in Africa: hence its behavior will always be civilized and quasi mutually beneficial. 2. China has no historical legacy of race based imperialism or desire for race based dominion. 3. You underestimate Africans. They are long suffering only up to the point that they are not. And then heads get cut off.....
Europeans colonized in the late 1800s and by the 1950s'-60s they had to leave. barely 100 years despite apparent economic and technological "superiority"
African benefits from Chinese investment more so than the Chinese. None of what the Chinese builds is Chinese.....they cant take any of it with them.
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Post by nebsen on Oct 18, 2017 21:26:41 GMT -5
PLOm Lumumba is a man on fire & on a mission to wake Africa up, I've been checking him out & I really like this African man. Now this is a long video worth watching but he talks about China in Africa about 31:13 into the video , check it out !
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Post by nebsen on Oct 19, 2017 4:08:42 GMT -5
This is what China thinks of African & black people with this photo exhibition . So they are in Africa so how do you trust them when they see Africans & black people in this light ?
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Post by kel on Oct 21, 2017 11:38:28 GMT -5
Who cares how China thinks of Africans.
The critical issue is how do Africans think of themselves and how do they think of the Chinese.
The Africans are the smart ones here. They better take all the investment and all the technology they can ---- They will be able to make the leap into the digital error full steam and on the cheap.
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Post by nebsen on Oct 21, 2017 22:21:29 GMT -5
Who cares how China thinks of Africans. The critical issue is how do Africans think of themselves and how do they think of the Chinese. The Africans are the smart ones here. They better take all the investment and all the technology they can ---- They will be able to make the leap into the digital error full steam and on the cheap. Please take the time to watch at least l or 2 of these video,s. This topic is not a new for me, but I've been concerned about China in Africa for a bout 10 years. Do you remember Chairman Mao Tse Tung ? well I do ! Do you remember " The Little Red Book" which was very popular in the African American communities of the 60's I do, for I was one of millions reading Chairman Mao's book. Mr. french who is African America, who i defer to has been sounding the alarm now for a while; please do some home work & research before spouting from the top of your head !
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Post by kel on Oct 22, 2017 0:02:54 GMT -5
Stop the alarmism.
The Chinese are not supermen and they are not a openly bloodthirsty and zenophobic as the Euros.
The key issue here is how the Africans see themselves vis a vis relations with these people.
It doesn't matter what plans China has. The fact remains that they have NO capacity to defend any of what they build if Africans have proper self-esteem and understanding (this is a tall order - but Mugabe and Quadaffi have shown that it is possible to for Africans to produce leaders can show the people proper self esteem).
Whatever China builds belongs to Africans. At the end of the day, the minute the Chinese wear out their welcome they will be dealt with.
The Chinese are not short term thinkers............their plan for Africa is for the long long haul. They will help African build itself up enough to be a counter the West. - the West is the only real threat to China - Africans have never had any interest in invading anyone for any reason (at leat in recent memory) and hence represent no threat to China. Furthermore, as the largest foreign holder on US treasuries, China receives tremendous income from interest payments paid by US. China is aware that the US could simply inflate its own currency and thus diminish the value of all those treasuries. To avoid this, China invests all the income it receives as quickly as possible but building favorable relations with nations they can build alliances with.
Do your own real research and stop listening to what white people say as if it is gospel - as if they ever speak the truth on anything.
China has never had any colonial interest other than its immediate environs - South China Sea area/North Korea etc. Culturally, they have always considered their nation to be the "middle kingdom" - i.e. the center of the world. China visited Africa and had trade with Africa as far back as the 15th century - and prior.
Chinese view of power is different than the Western notion. (the Global Affairs videos is mostly farce - propaganda)
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Post by nebsen on Oct 22, 2017 2:40:17 GMT -5
Stop the alarmism. The Chinese are not supermen and they are not a openly bloodthirsty and zenophobic as the Euros. The key issue here is how the Africans see themselves vis a vis relations with these people. It doesn't matter what plans China has. The fact remains that they have NO capacity to defend any of what they build if Africans have proper self-esteem and understanding (this is a tall order - but Mugabe and Quadaffi have shown that it is possible to for Africans to produce leaders can show the people proper self esteem). Whatever China builds belongs to Africans. At the end of the day, the minute the Chinese wear out their welcome they will be dealt with. The Chinese are not short term thinkers............their plan for Africa is for the long long haul. They will help African build itself up enough to be a counter the West. - the West is the only real threat to China - Africans have never had any interest in invading anyone for any reason (at leat in recent memory) and hence represent no threat to China. Furthermore, as the largest foreign holder on US treasuries, China receives tremendous income from interest payments paid by US. China is aware that the US could simply inflate its own currency and thus diminish the value of all those treasuries. To avoid this, China invests all the income it receives as quickly as possible but building favorable relations with nations they can build alliances with. Do your own real research and stop listening to what white people say as if it is gospel - as if they ever speak the truth on anything. China has never had any colonial interest other than its immediate environs - South China Sea area/North Korea etc. Culturally, they have always considered their nation to be the "middle kingdom" - i.e. the center of the world. China visited Africa and had trade with Africa as far back as the 15th century - and prior. Chinese view of power is different than the Western notion. (the Global Affairs videos is mostly farce - propaganda) I was doing my on thinking about China 45 years ago, probably before you were even born. I don't need white people to tell me about China. I've known Chinese people, worked with them. You are sprouting that tired old china has never colonized Africa bit.i know China did trade with Africa( horn of Africa) in the middle ages even posted some video's about it . I'm talking about" Now" not the 15t century.. What they are building in Africa is to serve there raw lust for raw goods , building road etc. so they can export the raw goods of Africa back to China, what they are building is not of high quality, even many Africans know that! yes ,they think in long term goals, for China. And really that's to be expected, Africans must not think China is some kind of savor . China has global ambition of domination , not only of Africa but many parts of the world including the US.Africa main problem is that they do not have the capacity to processes these raw goods to sell to the rest of the world. they must begin to ramp up the capacity to process all the natural raw wealth they have to sell to the world, here is Africa main weakness. I do my on thinking & when I do take in the consideration of others about Africa & China I can ferret out the hype from reality. Like I stated I've been concerned for about a decade. A well known Black economist Julianne Malveaux sounded the alarm years back on a PBS program, saying" African Americans need to pay attention to China's global ambitions in Africa, & we all should have Africa's back," & that's what I've been doing & will continue to do !! By the way I live in a city on the West Coast that has the largest Chinese community in America with a Chinese mayor, so I do understand how many of them think !
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Post by nebsen on Oct 22, 2017 5:49:20 GMT -5
OK lets take a look to what is driving China today. China's Century Of Humiliations is excellent. I've heard about this for years ,so lets take a look, that's why history is so important to know & understand
the second documentary is The New Chinese world order
They both gives insight into China & her role in this new century, than maybe we can better access China role in Africa & what drives China.
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Post by kel on Oct 22, 2017 9:53:53 GMT -5
"Africa main problem is that they do not have the capacity to processes these raw goods to sell to the rest of the world. they must begin to ramp up the capacity to process all the natural raw wealth they have to sell to the world, here is Africa main weakness."
I disagree. Africa's main problem is mental. Will they develop the proper self esteem and confidence to deal with all the changes coming at them. Will they grasp the opportunity for what it is. China and the rest of the world need Africa - not the other way around.
I understand what you are saying. I am intimately familiar with the Chinese myself. As one of the videos stated, they have their own ethnocentricism/racism. This is not necessarily a bad thing. I wish the Africans would be a bit more ethnocentric - on a racial basis - as opposed to tribal...(Mughabi and Quadaffi were on the right track - hence why they have been targeted for destruction).
But the fact remains: Chinese expansionism has never been of the same tenor of that of the West - nor will it be. They think of themselves as so special, that their is no need to overtly colonize anyone - why waste the time and energy to colonize an inferior when it is obvious that you are the superior ?
this is the Chinese mentality - you have to remember that they are a FAR older civilization than the Europeans - hence they have good deep self-esteem. The Europeans do not - and are obsessed with "superiority" - their dominance is only a few hundreds old and what brought them out of barbarism was having to steal/borrow from AFRICANS and ASIANS.
Julian Malveaux is another one of these phony pseudo intellectual Blacks that white liberals like to trot out to indoctrinate blacks.
China is the white man's enemy so her job is to convince Blacks of the same ............it is not true - nor has it ever been true.
China wants Africa for resources (obvious and not bad in of itself), and target to spend the eventually inflating dollars so that it gets real assets, and as a geopolitical balance to the West.
China will help to build African because a stronger African means a weaker West overall - and a safer China.
is all the Chinese work top notch ?? of course not - they do not even do top notch work in China for themselves .........that is not the point. Furthermore, Africans should use whatever assistance they get as an opportunity to examine their own cultures and ask:
1. why didnt we do the same for ourselves ? (building stuff is not that hard - rail, airports, ports, real estate, ) 2. What do we need to do in order to do it for ourselves ?
China in Africa is a tremendous opportunity for Africa to learn how to mesh development while doing it on an African cultural base. They need to take advantage of it. Build their societies, get educated, get skilled - this will lead to proper self esteem.
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Post by anansi on Oct 23, 2017 7:00:52 GMT -5
There are 54 nations in Africa, quite a few of these nations now have governments that are transparent and Democratic, some are autocratic but with good governance, eg Rwanda.
I don't think these are mainly idiots although those still exist, Nigerians are making their own refineries and as long as the world keep using oil as energy that's going to be a big deal,further Africans are beginning to diversify their economies not just relying on trade in raw materials
Another thing, the Chinese population is about to start aging, Africans are quite young, so for them good relations is key,I think their view is Africans will pay it back fwd in the future, of course there will be hiccups , false starts and set backs. BTW there is a Chinese plan to divert water from the great lakes to the Niger Chad region, one of the regions where water wars is causing conflict and migrations.
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Post by anansi on Oct 23, 2017 7:11:26 GMT -5
One more thing, African nations should restrict Chinese or anyone else to who have needed skills, it makes little dollars and cents to import small mom and pop businesses from China that will push African small mom & pop businesses into extinction and cause social problems.
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