Are modern Egyptians related to or the same as the Ancients?

[history91]

Omar Hasan, an Egyptian, posted on Facebook that Shomarka Keita says that modern Egyptians are same as the ancients and there has been no change. They have always been mixed and distant from from black Africans. Is this true? Are there any studies proving this wrong?

Omar Hasan makes his comments under Scott Ellis stat. m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1317838051590469&id=530869733620642

[anansi]

Aug 28, 2016 10:27:52 GMT -5 history91 said:

Omar Hasan, an Egyptian, posted on Facebook that Shomarka Keita says that modern Egyptians are same as the ancients and there has been no change. They have always been mixed and distant from from black Africans. Is this true? Are there any studies proving this wrong?

Omar Hasan makes his comments under Scott Ellis stat. m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1317838051590469&id=530869733620642

Today's Egyptians not identical to ancients
You may want to link your Fb friends here^
And "Black Africans" yes I many use the term, but I may ask Black in-comparison to whom as noted Africans ancient and modern came in many hues,

These are Kushities on trade or tribute mission to Kemet notice the variation in complexion.

Are these Kemitians or Puntities

Kemitians enjoying a sport of stick fighting.Painted relief from the tomb of the vizier Kagemni (Sixth Dynasty) at Saqqara
And something Zarahan posted about "some" modern Egyptians attitude about their view on other Africans is apt here.

11 hours ago karem said:
What does this mean for modern Egyptians Zarahan ?


Some modern Egyptians appear to want to "distance" themselves from
anything "African" - but embrace anything light-skinned or Arabized.
When encountering such denial of Egypt's African past, SOME African
background observers, particularly in the diaspora, argue that they
are the true defenders of Egypt's diverse heritage- the ones that
are speaking up for the ancient "sons of the soil"- and are not ashamed
to do so, while many elsewhere are scurrying to "distance" themselves
or dismiss the African heritage of Kemet. They marvel at how easily
modern Egyptians minimize their own heritage when a black face
in involved but change tune when a light skin shows up. They draw
a parallel with today's dark-skinned, more rural "Baladi" of Egypt-
looked down on by more affluent lighter skinned types and elites.

Such arguments of course cannot take in all the complexity of the field
and cannot cover the full range of opinion among modern Egyptians or
modern social conditions.

I suspect most modern folk will continue believing what the media feeds them.
Many African observers would be content with a decent recognition of Kemet's
Africa heritage- they already know there are other ifluences in the mix, and
just want a fair acknowledgement across the board. This is being done increasingly
in modern studies (Keita, Redford, Gatto, etc etc), but some are skeptical whether
popular modern opinion will follow the more balanced contemporary science.

But in one sense, it matters little what modern Egyptians think. The facts
on the ground show an African genesis, strong influence, and of course
other key influences in later eras from elsewhere including the Near East and Europe.
No amount of "distancing" or dismissal or Arabization can alter such facts on the ground.
The key then is not to focus on changing the "hearts and minds" of modern Egyptians on this
score. Educate yes, but not holding your breath. Rather the priority is to keep building up an
accurate pool of information and data and to develop alternative informational networks
to disseminate such info.

Read more: egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/1407/todays-egyptians-identical-ancients#ixzz4IfAc3gUK

[nebsen]

Aug 28, 2016 10:27:52 GMT -5 history91 said:

Omar Hasan, an Egyptian, posted on Facebook that Shomarka Keita says that modern Egyptians are same as the ancients and there has been no change. They have always been mixed and distant from from black Africans. Is this true? Are there any studies proving this wrong?

Omar Hasan makes his comments under Scott Ellis stat. m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1317838051590469&id=530869733620642

This is a video presentation given by Shomarka Keta at Cambridge ; Origins Of Early Egypt : Asian, European Or African ? You have his own words to draw your own conclusions.

[history91]

From watching the video it sounds like he is saying the present Egyptians are the same as the ancients. And the white Berbers are indigenous to North Africa. I'm I reading to much into?

[nebsen]

Aug 28, 2016 21:27:17 GMT -5 history91 said:

From watching the video it sounds like he is saying the present Egyptians are the same as the ancients. And the white Berbers are indigenous to North Africa. I'm I reading to much into?

Well, if that's your understanding on his lecture. One element, I've found in understanding Dr. Keita is that, he can be somewhat ' obtuse" & one has to pay spacial attention to what he is saying. He pulls from a large assortments of disciplines, to weave his narrative. Over the years I;ve watched many of his lectures on you-tube & elsewhere . So I believe I have a core understanding to his basic concepts theories. If he feels a historical understanding is faulty, he will disregard it sometimes in a cavalier, unattached, fashion . So if one is holding on to cherished historical understanding, & they are outdated, or discredited, as he see's it, he will throw them in the trash bend of time.

Watch as many of his lectures as you can (if you have not done so already); also read his writings. ESR has many of his writings etc..

[history91]

I came across a study someone posted on this site that says the modern Egyptians are mostly European. That's very interesting.

[djoser-xyyman]

First off. Would you stop making baseless claims? It is irritating. What study ...you came across? Modern Egyptians are the most heavily admixed of all North Africans. But they are admixed with Otto Turks not Europeans . So....again I ask. Proof? Modern Egyptians are a mixture of South Saharan Africans , Turks and Saharo-Arabians. Cited here on ESR. As DNA analysis has shown Ancient Egyptians are primarily South Saharan Africans.

Aug 29, 2016 10:55:55 GMT -5 history91 said:

I came across a study someone posted on this site that says the modern Egyptians are mostly European. That's very interesting.

[history91]

Here you go.

n regards to mtDNA:

"Egypt’s location and amalgam of past ruling populations mixing with the Egyptians has resulted in a heterogeneous make-up. The haplotype breakdown of this dataset is predominantly European (67.5%), followed by African (20.6%) and Asian (11.9%). The breakdown is as follows: European origin (n = 187) including R0 and its subgroups (31.4%), I (3.2%), J (7.6%), K (4.7%), T (9.4%), U (9.0%), W (0.7%), X (1.4%); African origin (n = 57) including L0
(2.2%), L1 (2.5%), L2 (3.6%), L3 (12.3%); and Asian origin (n = 33) including M (6.9%), N (5.1%)."--Source: Mitochondrial control region sequences from an Egyptian population sample

Jessica L. Saunier et al. 2009

Download link: www.sendspace.com/file/fk714r

Sample consisted of males from Alexandria. So, the heterogeneity can be attributed to the invasions throughout Egyptian history. Aside perhaps for M1 which has an possible/probable African origin

Read more: egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/650/modern-egypts-genetic-history#ixzz4IkhpDP6l

[history91]

Now where is your proof of what you stated? What study shows they mixed with Turks and Arabians?

[djoser-xyyman]

[djoser-xyyman]

You do know mtDNA H is also of African origin. The only foreign yDNA is J2. Which matches the SNP's



J1 is either African or Saharo-Arabian. either way it is NOT European.

Now would you stop it!!!!!

[history91]

I think the study I posted deals with the modern Egyptian population not the ancient one.

[zarahan]

Aug 29, 2016 19:08:57 GMT -5 djoser-xyyman said:

You do know mtDNA H is also of African origin. The only foreign yDNA is J2. Which matches the SNP's



J1 is either African or Saharo-Arabian. either way it is NOT European.

Now would you stop it!!!!!

Yes and modern Egyptians are not the same as the ancients due to heavy admixture from Arabs,
other Middle Easterners and from Europe over the centuries. Not only DNA shows this but
skeletal data as well. Modern Egyptians are no "experts" on the ancients simply because
they live in Egypt and don't deserve any deference or special treatment. Many are very
hypocritical- claiming to embrace the ancient heritage but then turning around and
trying to deny or "distance" themselves from the African foundations of ancient Egypt.


space aliens welcome! & anywhere, as long as no "Africans" involved..

To hear some of these hypocrites speak the ancients "somehow" sprang up from "somewhere" -
hell maybe space aliens, anywhere but from the African foundations of th Sahara and Sudan.

They don't deserve any free pass or special favors. They have to prove their claims
just like anyone else, and so far the hypocritical claims of many have been completely
debunked.

[history91]

This was posted in Truth Seeker on Facebook:

Afrocentric deliberate misinterpretation of the Haplogroup E which Ramses III DNA analysis revealed:
HaplogroupE is now defined by 18 mutations (SRY 4064, M96, P29, P150, P154, P155, P156, P162, P168, P170, P171, P172, P173, P174, P175, and P176). There are a total of 83 polymorphic sites that mark lineages within this clade, compared with a total of 30 internal mutations in 2002. This makes haplogroup E by far the most mutationally diverse of all major Y chromosome clades.
These polymorphisms define 56 distinct haplogroups, which can be found at high frequencies in Africa, at moderate frequencies in the Middle East and southern Europe, and with occasional occurrence in Central and South Asia.
- (Hammer et al.1998; Underhill et al. 2001; Cruciani et al. 2002’ Jobling and Tyler-Smith 2003; Semino et al. 2004’ Sims et al. 2007)

I'm trying to get the right information to prove them wrong. 

[history91]

Then they posted this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH56gwOLlz4

If any of you are interested in debatingredients these guys on Truth Seeker on Facebook let me know. It's thousands of people on there from all over.