Abusir-Ptolemy Ancient Egyptians less SSA?– I don’t think so

[djoser-xyyman]

Haplogroup M23[edit]
In 2009, two independent publications reported a rare, deep-rooted subclade of haplogroup M, referred to as M23, that is present in Madagascar.[13][14] The contemporary populations of Madagascar were formed in the last 2,000 years by the admixture of African and Southeast Asian (Austronesian) populations. M23 seems to be restricted to Madagascar as it was not detected anywhere else. M23 could have been brought to Madagascar from Asia where most deep rooted subclades of Haplogroup M are found.

Complete mitochondrial sequences for haplogroups M23 and M46: insights into the Asian ancestry of the Malagasy population". Human Biology.

[djoser-xyyman]

mtDNA haplgroup I found in these ancient Egytians.

Outside of Europe, the highest frequencies of mitochondrial haplogroup I observed so far appear in the Cushitic-speaking El Molo (23%) and Rendille (>17%) in northern Kenya (Castrì 2008). The clade is also found at comparable frequencies among the Soqotri (~22%).[1]

Castrì, Loredana; Garagnani, P; Useli, A; Pettener, D; Luiselli, D (2008). "Kenyan crossroads: migration and gene flow in six ethnic groups from Eastern Africa". Journal of Anthropological Sciences. 86

[djoser-xyyman]

mtDNA I in Africa as far south as Tanzania

Castrì, Loredana- "Kenyan crossroads: migration and gene flow in six ethnic groups from Eastern Africa". Journal of Anthropological Sciences. 86
Boattini, Alessio - MtDNA variation in East Africa unravels the history of afro-asiatic groups".
Poloni, Estella - (2009). "Genetic Evidence for Complexity in Ethnic Differentiation and History in East Africa
Tishkoff - "History of Click-Speaking Populations of Africa Inferred from mtDNA and Y Chromosome Genetic Variation

mtDNA T as far south as Tanzania
Knight - "African Y chromosome and mtDNA divergence provides insight into the history of click languages
Tishkoff - "History of Click-Speaking Populations of Africa Inferred from mtDNA and Y Chromosome Genetic Variation"
Kivilsild - . "Ethiopian mitochondrial DNA heritage: Tracking gene flow across and around the gate of tears"

[djoser-xyyman]

Oral swabs were collected from 287 Kenyan unrelated individuals along with biodemographic data. The ethnic origin of all individuals and their
grandparents was checked by oral interview with the aid of a local African speaker. All individuals gave their informed oral consent to participating
to the project. Collected individuals belong to six ethnic groups (Fig. 1): Turkana, Samburu and Maasai (Eastern Nilotic-speakers); Luo (Western Niloticspeakers); Rendille and ElMolo (Cushiticspeaking populations). All populations are cattle herders, with the exception of ElMolo that are fishermen (Dyson & Fuchs, 1937).

[samuel]

It just doesnt make any sense at all. They have more SSA dna now? How the fux would that happen? Let me guess their answer "the black slaves" This is American Liberalisim folks. These people are not friends of black people no matter how much they pretend to be. Does everybody know the Egyptians themselves were extremely conservative? I dont mean Texas republican conservative. I mean in that they kept the establishment and status quo in power with utter authority. They changed their Art Styles like maybe once in 5000 years. It is the liberal establishment who pays lip service to the "poor black people" while pushing this agenda of White Ancient Egypt. As if people cant read the ancient Greek texts. Ridiculous.

[anansi]

Jul 5, 2017 23:38:31 GMT -5 samuel said:

It just doesnt make any sense at all. They have more SSA dna now? How the fux would that happen? Let me guess their answer "the black slaves" This is American Liberalisim folks. These people are not friends of black people no matter how much they pretend to be. Does everybody know the Egyptians themselves were extremely conservative? I dont mean Texas republican conservative. I mean in that they kept the establishment and status quo in power with utter authority. They changed their Art Styles like maybe once in 5000 years. It is the liberal establishment who pays lip service to the "poor black people" while pushing this agenda of White Ancient Egypt. As if people cant read the ancient Greek texts. Ridiculous.

I don't know of their political bent, but what I and others have noted is, their conclusions are skewed, one simply cannot take samples from a town or district in ancient lower Egypt of all places and used that to make a statement that Egypt was made up of Eurasians, when the majority of the populous didn't live there, it would make better sense to take samples from Upper Egypt and around Thebes,AkA Waset , look at it this way, if some future geneticist took samples from a grave site in Harlem, dating from the late 1800s to say 1980, then used the results to conclude that America population is largely African derived would be foolish.

[melanitex]

Jul 6, 2017 1:44:24 GMT -5 anansi said:

Jul 5, 2017 23:38:31 GMT -5 samuel said:

It just doesnt make any sense at all. They have more SSA dna now? How the fux would that happen? Let me guess their answer "the black slaves" This is American Liberalisim folks. These people are not friends of black people no matter how much they pretend to be. Does everybody know the Egyptians themselves were extremely conservative? I dont mean Texas republican conservative. I mean in that they kept the establishment and status quo in power with utter authority. They changed their Art Styles like maybe once in 5000 years. It is the liberal establishment who pays lip service to the "poor black people" while pushing this agenda of White Ancient Egypt. As if people cant read the ancient Greek texts. Ridiculous.

I don't know of their political bent, but what I and others have noted is, their conclusions are skewed, one simply cannot take samples from a town or district in ancient lower Egypt of all places and used that to make a statement that Egypt was made up of Eurasians, when the majority of the populous didn't live there, it would make better sense to take samples from Upper Egypt and around Thebes,AkA Waset , look at it this way, if some future geneticist took samples from a grave site in Harlem, dating from the late 1800s to say 1980, then used the results to conclude that America population is largely African derived would be foolish.

Exactly like I said this test is what you call "controlled sampling." No different to when they would only test the lightest and brightest Amhara to prove Ethiopians "weren't black."

[forty2tribes]

It goes deeper than that. Abu Sir had a thorough media campaign while the Armana family and Ramses iii had about five media reports combined and was censored on wikipedia. I'm going to let half a million people know that an ancestry company was removed from wikipedia after releasing an ancestry test on King Tut. 

[melanitex]

Jul 7, 2017 15:09:32 GMT -5 forty2tribes said:

It goes deeper than that. Abu Sir had a thorough media campaign while the Armana family and Ramses iii had about five media reports combined and was censored on wikipedia. I'm going to let half a million people know that an ancestry company was removed from wikipedia after releasing an ancestry test on King Tut. 

Yup, like I mentioned "controlled sampling."

[zarahan]

Jun 8, 2017 11:02:36 GMT -5 djoser-xyyman said:

Location of the samples pulled from AEians



But look at the epicenter of ancient Egypt

Good roundup. And what you say is true. Its an old dodge to use samples from the
far north as "representative" of all of Egypt while downplaying the historic south.
Heavyweight Egyptologist Barry Kemp noted the same sampling dodge being used
with crania, via the CRANID database, which is packed mostly with reference
samples from cemeteries in the far north, shortchanging the "darker" historic
south, from whence the dynasties sprung. Its an old game they have been playing
for decades, now incorporated into DNA studies.. As said above, controlled sampling..

[zarahan]

Anansi says:
I don't know of their political bent, but what I and others have noted is, their conclusions are skewed, one simply cannot take samples from a town or district in ancient lower Egypt of all places and used that to make a statement that Egypt was made up of Eurasians, when the majority of the populous didn't live there, it would make better sense to take samples from Upper Egypt and around Thebes,AkA Waset , look at it this way, if some future geneticist took samples from a grave site in Harlem, dating from the late 1800s to say 1980, then used the results to conclude that America population is largely African derived would be foolish.

Indeed. By manipulating the sampling and sampling locations they can present
a skewed picture, while still claiming to be objective scientists. Same with
the many "true negro" constructs. They know the average layman will not check
under the hood, but accept their claims at face value. Similar games are being
run in dental and other studies in Africa.

stacked decks irish 98

Coastal North African sampling issues/bias

[djoser-xyyman]

I said many times it is a good idea to go back and revisit past studies. Going back to Schuenemann et al and the Abusir mummies. I missed a few things first time around.

1. It is impossible for the Abusir mummies to be anything but Africans.
2. Based upon SNP they cluster first with Neolithic Lavant/Natufians. We know the Natufians are SSA from East Africa. Also included are the BedoiunA(not B), Tunisians and Yemenis. Schuenemann et al did NOT include SSA from the Great Lakes
3. They do NOT cluster with Druze!!! It is a myth. Western Europeans are not even in the discussion. And should get out.
4. We know Bedouins, Tunisians and Yemenis are heavily Africanized groups. We also know that Lazaridis postulated that the Natufians originated IN Africa.
5. The Abusir mummies are closest to modern Egyptians. At last count, modern Egyptians are 80% African and 20% “foreign”.

I am waiting on that STR result from ElMaestro. Wink! Wink! Anyone has the STR profile of MODERN Egyptians. Lol! We are waiting….. for the impossible.

[djoser-xyyman]

For the newbies. From The JAMA Report. These were SSA Africans from the New Kigdom?

.


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An up to 30-fold testing of polymorphic autosomal microsatellite loci via the combined use of the Identifiler and AmpF\STR Minifiler kits (Applied Biosystems) yielded complete data sets for all 8 markers in 7 mummies (Thuya, Yuya, Amenhotep III, Tutankhamun, KV55, and both female mummies from KV35) but only partial data for both KV62 fetuses and the KV21A and KV21B mummies (Figure 1). Repeated attempts to complete the profiles in the 4 latter mummies were not successful; however, we were able to replicate some of the results for the previous mummies more than 4 times in the second, independent laboratory (Figure 1). Moreover, because these profiles differed from those of the laboratory staff and were not identical to the ones established for the control group, the data were considered authentic.

Conclusion Using a multidisciplinary scientific approach, we showed the feasibility of gathering data on Pharaonic kinship and diseases and speculated about individual causes of death.

The 18th dynasty (circa 1550-1295 BC) of the New Kingdom (circa 1550-1070 BC) was one of the most powerful royal houses of ancient Egypt. The pharaoh Akhenaten, who ruled from circa 1351 to 1334 BC, is considered one of the most controversial of the Egyptian pharaohs, because his attempt to radically transform traditional religion affected all facets of society and caused great turmoil.


jamanetwork.com/data/Journals/JAMA/4500/m_joc05008f1.png

Author Contributions: Drs Hawass, Gad, Zink, and Pusch had full access to all of the data in the study and take responsibility for the integrity of the data and the accuracy of the data analysis.

Study concept and design: Hawass, Gad, Zink, Pusch.

Acquisition of data: Hawass, Gad, Ismail, Khairat, Fathalla, Hasan, Ahmed, Elleithy, Gaballah, Wasef, Fateen, Amer, Gostner, Selim, Zink.

Analysis and interpretation of data: Hawass, Gad, Ismail, Khairat, Fathalla, Hasan, Ball, Wasef, Fateen, Amer, Gostner, Selim, Zink, Pusch.

Drafting of the manuscript: Hawass, Gad, Zink, Pusch.
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And now from The Abusir mummies -
QUOTE"
ll sampled remains derive from this community in Middle Egypt and have been radiocarbon dated to the late New Kingdom to the Roman Period [cal. 1388BCE–426CE, Supplementary Data 1}. In particular, we seek to determine if the inhabitants of this settlement were affected at the genetic level by foreign conquest and domination, especially during the Ptolemaic [332–30BCE} and Roman [30BCE–395CE} Periods

[clydewin98]

[djoser-xyyman]

Title : Northeast African genomic variation shaped by the continuity of indigenous groups and Eurasian migrations - Nina Hollfelder, Published: August 24, 2017


Is this a rebuttal to Abusir paper? Lol! It disputes Abusir?

-----
Authors summary
This admixture process largely coincides with the time of the Arab conquest, spreading in a southbound direction along the Nile and the Blue Nile. Nilotic populations occupying the region around the
White Nile show long-term continuity, genetic isolation and genetic links to ancestral East African people. Compared to current times, groups that are ancestral to the current day
Nilotes likely inhabited a larger area of northeast Africa prior to the migration from the Middle East as their ancestry component can still be found in a large area. Our findings
reveal the genetic history of Sudanese and South Sudanese people, broaden our knowledge on demographic history of humans, and quantify the impact of large-scale historic
migration events in northeast Africa.

also
Quote:
The Nilotes are predominantly pastoralist populations, they live in Uganda, Ethiopia, Kenya, Tanzania, and are the most ****PROMINENT*** ethnicity in South Sudan. They are traditionally
strongly endogamic which could account for low levels of admixture. In terms of specific Nilotic populations, the f3 test showed no significant signal of gene flow with external
populations for the Nuer and Baria (Fig 3A), however, we detected indications of external

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For those who did not get it. Notice the groups to identified. Remember I said the Abusir mummies are Kenyans, Tanzanians, Sudanese and my man's...Horners..

Quote:"The Nilotes are predominantly pastoralist populations, they live in Uganda, Ethiopia, Kenya, Tanzania, and are the most ****PROMINENT*** ethnicity in South Sudan"

I love being right!