Interactive African Alternate History Series

[fromnothing]

Hey guys! It's been a while since I've been here. My first few posts didn't particularly give people a good first impression. One user whom I literally had to block relentlessly taunted me but here I am... one year later. I make historical YouTube videos about Africa. I create videos in a non-biased and non-Afrocentric manner. I teach facts and only facts that can be backed up by historical references and credible sources and I don't talk about it in a way that is meant to steal other people's history or insult other cultures. Recently I've been also delving into the world of alternate history as there really is no alternate history culture out there in regards to Africa.



So I have this idea guys where I'm going to be making a YouTube video series based on an alternate scenario. I'll give more details once the video is released but anyway, a sudden change in climate is going to affect the African continent dramatically and directly lead to the formation of an empire. This empire will have connections to the greater economy of Eurasia and in doing so, create an empire comparable in scale and influence as ancient Rome or Han China.



Here's where it gets interesting, when people watch my stream, donate to it, become patrons etc. it will influence the outcome of the empire. Donations will act as tribute/taxes, subscribers will act as recruits to the military and patrons will act as vassals which will add multipliers to the total number. Collaborations will work as trade/alliances for new technology and skills.



Each time a new subscriber goal or "imperial army" goal is met, new territory will be attacked and depending on all of those variables, the success of such attacks will be played out in the new video. Each of the neighboring kingdoms have their own stats such as strength, cavalry, archers, etc so the empire's stats will depend heavily on whether or not these places can be conquered. What do you guys think? Here are a couple of examples of my work. The new idea previously discussed will be more elaborate though featuring an animated map and hard, raw stats and calculations.

[anansi]

Saw the what if Africa had contacts with America, ,an interesting thought exercise, however I doubt if they would be interested in actual colonization a costly undertaking keep in mind most of the empires were stretched to the breaking point, I think the Songhai almost matched the Mongols in land mass and they couldn't keep it for more than a few dozen yrs, Africa had space to move and materials, trading stations??..more likely, like did in Asia.

(Not leaving out the very real possibility they did that on occasion.. But that's controversial,raised more. questions than answers.)

Personally it's difficult for me to be interactive given distance, and time..but looks interesting.

[fromnothing]

Dec 18, 2017 10:35:35 GMT -5 anansi said:

Saw the what if Africa had contacts with America, ,an interesting thought exercise, however I doubt if they would be interested in actual colonization a costly undertaking keep in mind most of the empires were stretched to the breaking point, I think the Songhai almost matched the Mongols in land mass and they couldn't keep it for more than a few dozen yrs, Africa had space to move and materials, trading stations??..more likely, like did in Asia.

(Not leaving out the very real possibility they did that on occasion.. But that's controversial,raised more. questions than answers.)

Personally it's difficult for me to be interactive given distance, and time..but looks interesting.

Songhai was nowhere near the size of the Mongol Empire. At it's peak it was roughly the size of Western Europe. It also didn't fall due to size, it fell because of the Moroccan Empire defeated them using firearms which the Songhai lacked. Seeing as most of Songhai's military was composed of cavalry, it backfired (literally) because the gunshots spooked their horses and cattle and sent them running back toward friendly units. As for the colonization of the Americas video, I agree that colonizing land like that would be a massive undertaking that's why I stressed that if it did happen, it would probably not reach the size or scale of the European conquests and that monopoly on exotic goods would probably be the main motivating factor for them rather than gold and land.

[anansi]

Forthcoming said
(Songhai was nowhere near the size of the Mongol Empire. At it's peak it was roughly the size of Western Europe. It also didn't fall due to size, it fell because of the Moroccan Empire defeated them using firearms which the Songhai lacked. Seeing as most of Songhai's military was composed of cavalry, it backfired (literally) because the gunshots spooked their horses and cattle and sent them running back toward friendly units. As for the colonization of the Americas video, I agree that colonizing land like that would be a massive undertaking that's why I stressed that if it did happen, it would probably not reach the size or scale of the European conquests and that monopoly on exotic goods would probably be the main motivating factor for them rather than gold and land.)

Sorry should have made it clear , I was speaking of the Mongols who couldn't hold it together.
And yes it was way larger than the Songhai, forgot they stretched from Russia including China, to the gates of Europe.

None the less I love those what if's , like what if the Axumite emperor had simply enslaved or killed followers of Muhammed who fled to them, and followed up with a reconquest of the peninsular, a very real possibility, crushing nescient Islam, what the Geo politics and religious make up of the world would be like today, this was one of the key moments in history where an African nation or one man's decision made all the difference.

Sigh"
Alas time difference and work schedule make live interaction difficult, Japan is a long ways out. Lol

[fromnothing]

Dec 18, 2017 21:51:01 GMT -5 anansi said:

Forthcoming said
(Songhai was nowhere near the size of the Mongol Empire. At it's peak it was roughly the size of Western Europe. It also didn't fall due to size, it fell because of the Moroccan Empire defeated them using firearms which the Songhai lacked. Seeing as most of Songhai's military was composed of cavalry, it backfired (literally) because the gunshots spooked their horses and cattle and sent them running back toward friendly units. As for the colonization of the Americas video, I agree that colonizing land like that would be a massive undertaking that's why I stressed that if it did happen, it would probably not reach the size or scale of the European conquests and that monopoly on exotic goods would probably be the main motivating factor for them rather than gold and land.)

Sorry should have made it clear , I was speaking of the Mongols who couldn't hold it together.
And yes it was way larger than the Songhai, forgot they stretched from Russia including China, to the gates of Europe.

None the less I love those what if's , like what if the Axumite emperor had simply enslaved or killed followers of Muhammed who fled to them, and followed up with a reconquest of the peninsular, a very real possibility, crushing nescient Islam, what the Geo politics and religious make up of the world would be like today, this was one of the key moments in history where an African nation or one man's decision made all the difference.

Sigh"
Alas time difference and work schedule make live interaction difficult, Japan is a long ways out. Lol

Oh You're in Japan? I have a few viewers from Japan surprisingly. I also archive my live streams for later viewing.

[mellomusings]

Dec 18, 2017 5:30:41 GMT -5 fromnothing said:

Hey guys! It's been a while since I've been here. My first few posts didn't particularly give people a good first impression. One user whom I literally had to block relentlessly taunted me but here I am... one year later. I make historical YouTube videos about Africa. I create videos in a non-biased and non-Afrocentric manner. I teach facts and only facts that can be backed up by historical references and credible sources and I don't talk about it in a way that is meant to steal other people's history or insult other cultures. Recently I've been also delving into the world of alternate history as there really is no alternate history culture out there in regards to Africa.



So I have this idea guys where I'm going to be making a YouTube video series based on an alternate scenario. I'll give more details once the video is released but anyway, a sudden change in climate is going to affect the African continent dramatically and directly lead to the formation of an empire. This empire will have connections to the greater economy of Eurasia and in doing so, create an empire comparable in scale and influence as ancient Rome or Han China.



Here's where it gets interesting, when people watch my stream, donate to it, become patrons etc. it will influence the outcome of the empire. Donations will act as tribute/taxes, subscribers will act as recruits to the military and patrons will act as vassals which will add multipliers to the total number. Collaborations will work as trade/alliances for new technology and skills.



Each time a new subscriber goal or "imperial army" goal is met, new territory will be attacked and depending on all of those variables, the success of such attacks will be played out in the new video. Each of the neighboring kingdoms have their own stats such as strength, cavalry, archers, etc so the empire's stats will depend heavily on whether or not these places can be conquered. What do you guys think? Here are a couple of examples of my work. The new idea previously discussed will be more elaborate though featuring an animated map and hard, raw stats and calculations.

Haven't had time to watch the series but I am subscribed to your channel so whenever I get the chance I'll try to catch your stream. One question though what happened to the gift card give away? Also check my ESR page for future content I have the Tarikh-al-Fattash in my possession and uploading screen captures so that will prove useful to your streams and channel.

[fromnothing]

The gift card thing kinda died. The rules were for people to simply leave "gift card" in the comment section for a chance to win. After several months to date I think I've only gotten maybe 3 or 4 "gift cards" in the comments so it isn't really worth it.

[anansi]

Forthcoming said:
Oh You're in Japan? I have a few viewers from Japan surprisingly. I also archive my live streams for later viewing.

Kool keep doing what you bro,many of ma peeps and peepettes are into the education business teaching English in both private and public schools, being that your stuff is clean devoid of isms , a lot the teachers who are Afro descendant folks got asked questions about the black experience both ancient and modern,but needed to be explained simply for non English speakers, mostly teens, if you don't mind I'll hip them to your stuff so they can plan lessons around it.
Myself I'm not in that realm but I do have conversations With adult folks who asked questions.


One more thing, and I know this maybe a loser, but I want to rescue true Afrocentric scholarship that meant exactly what it started out to be, meaning looking at African historical perspective and the diaspora from the inside looking out without apology, but without what I call Afro-eccentricism, often and sometimes deliberately confused with true Afrocentrism.

Eg: let's say we are talking about mathematics, we look at the Ishango bones, or the Rhine papyrus, the doubling of numbers, and The African origins of fractals ,without which the computer as we know it would be near impossible,and individuals like Al- Fulani of Mali and his magical squares etc, all without crapping on the contributions of others.

[fromnothing]

Dec 20, 2017 13:23:49 GMT -5 anansi said:

Forthcoming said:
Oh You're in Japan? I have a few viewers from Japan surprisingly. I also archive my live streams for later viewing.

Kool keep doing what you bro,many of ma peeps and peepettes are into the education business teaching English in both private and public schools, being that your stuff is clean devoid of isms , a lot the teachers who are Afro descendant folks got asked questions about the black experience both ancient and modern,but needed to be explained simply for non English speakers, mostly teens, if you don't mind I'll hip them to your stuff so they can plan lessons around it.
Myself I'm not in that realm but I do have conversations With adult folks who asked questions.


One more thing, and I know this maybe a loser, but I want to rescue true Afrocentric scholarship that meant exactly what it started out to be, meaning looking at African historical perspective and the diaspora from the inside looking out without apology, but without what I call Afro-eccentricism, often and sometimes deliberately confused with true Afrocentrism.

Eg: let's say we are talking about mathematics, we look at the Ishango bones, or the Rhine papyrus, the doubling of numbers, and The African origins of fractals ,without which the computer as we know it would be near impossible,and individuals like Al- Fulani of Mali and his magical squares etc, all without crapping on the contributions of others.

Sure you are welcome to distribute my content anywhere you so choose as long as you properly credit me (even if it's simply showing the video straight from my YouTube channel). My girlfriend is actually a teacher and a few of my viewers are teachers as well. Keep an eye out because me and her will be making a child-friendly version of my channel called "Teach Something." From Nothing isn't inappropriate but it's really not dumbed down enough for children lol. As far as magic squares, Ishango bone etc I agree. I feel like people such as myself are punished and branded as supremacist simply for teaching of the accomplishments of Africans no matter how well-researched or credible the sources are. I never present my content in a biased fashion or a way that claims that we were "better"yet I still get crap for it. As far as misuse of the term "Afrocentric" I'm guilty of that as well but I think the word itself perpetuates that mentality. It is similar for "feminism" which claims to be an organization for equality but the very word invokes the notion of it being for women rather than all genders. Otherwise it would be called like "equalism" or something. Anyway I'm not sure if you've seen this video yet but it would be perfect for a classroom environment and everything is referenced by universities, TV channels, etc. 

[anansi]

I'd just shoot them the vids as you put them out or tell them to sub your chan. aint got time to be editing or playing with other folks work like that...lol

[zarahan]

FromNothing,

Good project you have going there- keep it up. If you can blend artistic talent with summaries of text that is a great help in teaching a more accurate and balanced African story. There is plenty of text going around, tons of books, acres of text, but that blend- a picture worth a thousand words, and so on- is what will stand out.
Some comments:

1) Your funding/participation method is also creative. But what if a deep-pocketed patron wants you to show Africans as simpler folk. They say: "Hey don't show too much on the achievements end in government, statecraft, tech or economy. I want more emphasis on Africans singing and dancing, colorful exotics meme." How would you react to this?


2) Also your game-type format is unique. On your alternative scenario, you have precedent from history. The drying up of the Sahara, a true "Pan African" entity that at one time covered one third of the continent, forced many African peoples closer into the Nile Valley- the so-called "Saharan pump" and led to tighter settlement along the river and the narrow strip of land not overrun by the desert. We know what happened later over time- the dynastic civilization arose, foundationally peopled by Africans from the south. Southern dominance made the Egyptian kingdom. And as early as the first Dynasty, Egyptian hegemons were raiding into what is now Palestine/Israel and establishing settlements and trading bases there. You could thus argue with some justice that your "Out of Africa" scenario has a strong basis in history and is not simply implausible fantasy.

The environmental/climate change angle also has a strong basis in history.

Later Egyptian history of course saw Egypt as a big dog in the region, a world power at certain times. Not to last of course as Egypt was checked by new contenders- Assyria, Persia, Greece, Rome, and they in turn were dethroned as the wheel of time turned.

Another related angle is to consider the Biblical Nimrod, son of Kush, whose kingdom, per Genesis 10, extended across Palestine, into the Red Sea into Yemen and Arabia, into Mesopotamia.



3) On Africans beating Europeans to the New World, I would have to agree with Brada that there is controversy in the area, when certain people take EXTREME positions and insist that there had to be colonies of people pouring in from Africa on to the beaches of Mexico etc. Its a theory, a model, a thought exercise with some data behind it, not something one can speak of with messianic certainty. We know it was entirely feasible technologically. Thor Hyerdahl showed that it was, and the watercraft of West Africa- such as the "kanto" boats with their 30 ton load-outs could move enough men and material to do the job. What is lacking is solid CURRENT archaeological evidence of colonies. Your video's early segment qualifies things thankfully and does not make extreme claims insisting on massive fleets of colonists from West Africa, Nubia etc etc. as facts set in stone.



4) On your alternative history, which you clearly identify as alternative, you use the mass colonization scenario from Mali, with the Africans being just as bad as the Europeans, only at a slower pace. And since the Malians would be Muslims they would be doing the same condemnation of native cultures as "infidel" and launching the bloody jihads and wars, just as they did in many parts of Africa against indigenous cultures. IF there were mass colonization from Africa this pattern of events is feasible, but to the Native American, the black conquerors would be just as bad as the white ones. Indeed you use the term "invaders" several times for the Africans.

You should consider a more positive scenario of peaceful trade, less warfare against native peoples, and even joint collaboration with Native Americans to fight against European encroachment. This is not mere PC formulation. Just such a pattern was in West Africa before the era of aggressive Muslim proselytizing and jihad, when Muslims were a minority. They had to stay on the good side of indigenous chiefs and kings, and pursued a policy of peaceful co-existence. Muslim scholars and mostly stayed close to major centers of power like royal courts and were focused on detailed learning of Quran and other texts, cultivation of the pure faith as individuals, and did not roam widely preaching fire and jihad against the infidels. This of course was to change, but the model of peaceful trade, non-aggression, tolerance and co-existence was there in the early days. So rather than massive fleets of ships with Africans swarming ashore, an alternative model is of a more modest set of merchants and scholars landing in say the Caribbean or Brazil, and pursuing a moderate policy of peaceful co-existence. In some areas they newcomers would gain ascendancy over time, but this need not lead to massive jihads, extermination or enslavement. Flourishing trade back and forth between Africa and the New World, and non-violent cultural and 2-way cultural/religious exchange would mark the era.

Eventually a "mixed race" group of people would emerge as on the African Swahili coast and a blending of cultures would be underway under this more peaceful model. Of course there would still be tensions and some wars, but mass campaigns of enslavement, extermination, or "convert or else" proselytizing would not take place. The Africans would respect other "big dog" empires, cultures or kingdoms they encountered- the Maya, the Inca, the Olmec, the Aztecs etc., pursuing policy of peaceful exchange and co-existence.

So when the Spaniards or Portuguese arrived to wreak havoc the African colonies, now well established and intermarrying to some extent with Native Americans could possibly join with said Native Americans to fend them off, not because of Kum Bayah multi-culti feeling but hard nosed self-interest in their trade and alliance structures. The Africans would be familiar with European tech like horses and could match it, and could neutralize Iberian armor and steel with their own horses and steel, and to a more limited extent gunpowder tech obtained via North African sources. The model above might garner more positive feedback than a "African-Muslim wave of colonists" invasion scenario.


5) on your African achievements definitely I think you should mention how Africans created one of, if not the largest single carved stone monolith in history, the great obelisk of Axum, in Sub-Saharan Africa.
See:
egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/15/basic-database-nile-valley-studies?page=6


Just some ideas, for what they are worth.

[fromnothing]

Dec 23, 2017 3:02:36 GMT -5 zarahan said:

FromNothing,

Good project you have going there- keep it up. If you can blend artistic talent with summaries of text that is a great help in teaching a more accurate and balanced African story. There is plenty of text going around, tons of books, acres of text, but that blend- a picture worth a thousand words, and so on- is what will stand out.
Some comments:

1) Your funding/participation method is also creative. But what if a deep-pocketed patron wants you to show Africans as simpler folk. They say: "Hey don't show too much on the achievements end in government, statecraft, tech or economy. I want more emphasis on Africans singing and dancing, colorful exotics meme." How would you react to this?


2) Also your game-type format is unique. On your alternative scenario, you have precedent from history. The drying up of the Sahara, a true "Pan African" entity that at one time covered one third of the continent, forced many African peoples closer into the Nile Valley- the so-called "Saharan pump" and led to tighter settlement along the river and the narrow strip of land not overrun by the desert. We know what happened later over time- the dynastic civilization arose, foundationally peopled by Africans from the south. Southern dominance made the Egyptian kingdom. And as early as the first Dynasty, Egyptian hegemons were raiding into what is now Palestine/Israel and establishing settlements and trading bases there. You could thus argue with some justice that your "Out of Africa" scenario has a strong basis in history and is not simply implausible fantasy.

The environmental/climate change angle also has a strong basis in history.

Later Egyptian history of course saw Egypt as a big dog in the region, a world power at certain times. Not to last of course as Egypt was checked by new contenders- Assyria, Persia, Greece, Rome, and they in turn were dethroned as the wheel of time turned.

Another related angle is to consider the Biblical Nimrod, son of Kush, whose kingdom, per Genesis 10, extended across Palestine, into the Red Sea into Yemen and Arabia, into Mesopotamia.



3) On Africans beating Europeans to the New World, I would have to agree with Brada that there is controversy in the area, when certain people take EXTREME positions and insist that there had to be colonies of people pouring in from Africa on to the beaches of Mexico etc. Its a theory, a model, a thought exercise with some data behind it, not something one can speak of with messianic certainty. We know it was entirely feasible technologically. Thor Hyerdahl showed that it was, and the watercraft of West Africa- such as the "kanto" boats with their 30 ton load-outs could move enough men and material to do the job. What is lacking is solid CURRENT archaeological evidence of colonies. Your video's early segment qualifies things thankfully and does not make extreme claims insisting on massive fleets of colonists from West Africa, Nubia etc etc. as facts set in stone.



4) On your alternative history, which you clearly identify as alternative, you use the mass colonization scenario from Mali, with the Africans being just as bad as the Europeans, only at a slower pace. And since the Malians would be Muslims they would be doing the same condemnation of native cultures as "infidel" and launching the bloody jihads and wars, just as they did in many parts of Africa against indigenous cultures. IF there were mass colonization from Africa this pattern of events is feasible, but to the Native American, the black conquerors would be just as bad as the white ones. Indeed you use the term "invaders" several times for the Africans.

You should consider a more positive scenario of peaceful trade, less warfare against native peoples, and even joint collaboration with Native Americans to fight against European encroachment. This is not mere PC formulation. Just such a pattern was in West Africa before the era of aggressive Muslim proselytizing and jihad, when Muslims were a minority. They had to stay on the good side of indigenous chiefs and kings, and pursued a policy of peaceful co-existence. Muslim scholars and mostly stayed close to major centers of power like royal courts and were focused on detailed learning of Quran and other texts, cultivation of the pure faith as individuals, and did not roam widely preaching fire and jihad against the infidels. This of course was to change, but the model of peaceful trade, non-aggression, tolerance and co-existence was there in the early days. So rather than massive fleets of ships with Africans swarming ashore, an alternative model is of a more modest set of merchants and scholars landing in say the Caribbean or Brazil, and pursuing a moderate policy of peaceful co-existence. In some areas they newcomers would gain ascendancy over time, but this need not lead to massive jihads, extermination or enslavement. Flourishing trade back and forth between Africa and the New World, and non-violent cultural and 2-way cultural/religious exchange would mark the era.

Eventually a "mixed race" group of people would emerge as on the African Swahili coast and a blending of cultures would be underway under this more peaceful model. Of course there would still be tensions and some wars, but mass campaigns of enslavement, extermination, or "convert or else" proselytizing would not take place. The Africans would respect other "big dog" empires, cultures or kingdoms they encountered- the Maya, the Inca, the Olmec, the Aztecs etc., pursuing policy of peaceful exchange and co-existence.

So when the Spaniards or Portuguese arrived to wreak havoc the African colonies, now well established and intermarrying to some extent with Native Americans could possibly join with said Native Americans to fend them off, not because of Kum Bayah multi-culti feeling but hard nosed self-interest in their trade and alliance structures. The Africans would be familiar with European tech like horses and could match it, and could neutralize Iberian armor and steel with their own horses and steel, and to a more limited extent gunpowder tech obtained via North African sources. The model above might garner more positive feedback than a "African-Muslim wave of colonists" invasion scenario.


5) on your African achievements definitely I think you should mention how Africans created one of, if not the largest single carved stone monolith in history, the great obelisk of Axum, in Sub-Saharan Africa.
See:
egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/15/basic-database-nile-valley-studies?page=6


Just some ideas, for what they are worth.

Thanks for the feedback on my scenarios. Just to clarify however, I did not claim that the Mali Empire would practice Jihad against the natives. I'm aware of the similar situation that they'd likely be in in the New World as their homeland. However, They have demonstrated their distaste for non-Islamic peoples in the past. Not in the same sense as their Arabic counterparts but to a degree. For example, they would not enslave other Islamic peoples but Pagans were fair game. The biggest difference that I presented in this situation however was the technological and economic advantages that they would have had over the pagans which would have allowed for more ease in conquest.

If a Patron gave me a big lump sum of funding and wanting me to put more focus on dancing and things of the sort, I'd let him know that there is only a limited amount of that which I could incorporate into the series, however since Patrons are vassals, I can make his kingdom into one that is known for dancing and make a separate video that connects to it.

As for my African empire idea, it will take place in West Africa instead of the East. 

[zarahan]

In Part 2 of the vid series you ask if the Malians would have been able to hold on to their American colonies/empire given stiff competition from other more technologically advanced European nations also seeking American colonies? Assuming the Malians were established already I think they could have if the following scenarios were met.

Scenario 1- ALLIANCE WITH A EUROPEAN PARTNER-

An alliance with one of the rising European powers like Holland, Portugal etc. This alliance would have opened up access to newer European enhanced technologies (some originally obtained from China like gunpowder, compass, printing etc), and would provide allies to fend off other European powers like Britain, France, etc. Imagine an alliance between the Dutch and the Malians for example, with the Malians providing the manpower and the baseline food supplies, timber, metal ores etc and the Dutch kicking in advanced ships, cannon, metal foundries, etc etc. This partnership scenario is not far-fetched. The

Ottoman and various other Muslim empires had various alliances going to do something similar back in the day. The Ottomans for example imported numerous European technicians and methods and began to develop their own indigenous arms industries over time, and were successful in some centuries in beating European militaries. And the history of the colonial era shows numerous shifting alliances between Euro nations, Britain and the Dutch one year, the French and the Danish hooked up the next, then a reshuffle decades later etc.

But even with allies, the Malians might still need elements of the "go it alone" scenario below.

[zarahan]

SCENARIO 2- GO IT ALONE WITH NATIVE ALLIES-

Some sort of alliance makes sense but lets say it could not happen. The Malians are on their own. Given various technological weaknesses it would be tough. The only way to keep their colony afloat from European attacks would be by ruthless guerilla warfare over a wide area, spread out over decades just like the North Vietnamese in part, to defeat the US and its client ally- South Vietnam. On smaller scale the 'quilombo' communities of escaped slaves partially proved this in Brazil, as did the Maroons in Jamaica, and the so-called 'Bush Negroes' (Saramakas, Djukas etc) in Surinam, though again, on a more fragmented scale. For large scale success, large pools of manpower are required. On the continent itself, Mali could in theory pony up over 200,000 fighters.

To get some of this manpower in place and go it alone the Malians would need 5 things:


a) A well functioning colonial economy producing surpluses of food and raw material like lumber and metal ores. This buildup would need to be in place for multiple decades before confronting various major enemies..


b) A growing local Malian population- bolstered via fresh people from Africa and/or intermixing with local Indians. In theory new American crops would help both in Africa and in the Americas to build this manpower.


c) A decent sealift capability in place to move more Africans into the colony- which means major construction and shipping activity. If a conflict with other European colonialists broke out troop reinforcements might be subject to European blockades or attacks. The Malians would need canoe sealift capability able to use widely dispersed points to unload the reinforcements- 80 canoes from Africa up a tributary of the Amazon in JUly, 40 more off the coast of Rio De Janiero in September and so on.


d) Alliances with Native American groups would be crucial lest they ally with European enemies to Malian detriment. The Malians would have to be prepared to cut whatever deals they could to get those alliances- cut back on enslavement activity, ramp up marriage alliances, lay some cash and gifts on various Native American chiefs, offer them positions in the Malian government, whatever it took to build that alliance network. One of the key factors that helped the Spanish win in Mexico is that the Aztecs had so many enemies willing to join the Spanish in overthrowing them. The final advance on the Aztec capital was mostly Indian allies advancing along with the core group of Spaniards. In Peru, Pizarro came just as a civil war was going on- divide and conquer again.

Native allies also could be very helpful in countering Euro tech. History shows that Native American fighters on many occasions neutralized Spanish horses, guns and armor using their own local technologies, tactics and manpower surplus. Slings and arrows for example often troubled the Spanish horses and armor notwithstanding. Horses could have been neutralized by stout walls of spearmen as proved time and time again- from Rome to the Swiss pikemen. Slow firing muskets could be neutralized by surprise ambushes and human wave assaults, as proved by Africans against the Portugese in Southern Africa in the 1500s and 1600s. Montezuma could have defeated Cortez with the right organization and tactics, using native tech and manpower surpluses, but he foolishly and weakly squandered most of his advantages, and failed to make much of an effort to patch things up with surrounding disaffected peoples to get them on board with the resistance, rather than have them join the Spanish.


e) Ruthless organization and deployment over a wide area.
With enough native allies on hand, and bolstered with fresh reinforcement from the African sealift, the Malians would not only be in a position to defend their colonial project but could take the offensive and themselves threaten European projects in the New World. So lets say the Malians are embedded in eastern Brazil and the Portuguese had started their mass slave plantation projects. The Malians could attack and disrupt such so that they never fully get off the ground or are reduced to small scale proportions.
Malian privateers and freebooters, using fast galleys, sail ships and other tactics like the Muslim corsairs in North Africa, could attack and disrupt European merchant shipping and slave shipping. Joint attacks with native allies could disrupt and even roll back the European colonial enterprise in many areas, establishing a fluctuating borderline.

OK but what if the Europeans decide to attack with fleets and armies? Fine, bring them on. Rather than risk everything in 3 or 4 big battles, the Malians could destroy their enemies like the VC or NVA in Vietnam, attritional mobile warfare over a wide area. Let lumbering redcoat or Portugese columns suffer in the sweltering Amazon rainforest, or rough mountain gorges of Brazil while they are ambushed and destroyed piecemeal until they withdraw in defeat. Euro fleets seeming to control the waters? Only partially- they can’t cover thousands of miles of coastline. Reinforcements from Africa landing at dispersed points, some to fight directly in the Malian heartland, others to raid and attack European settlements and garrisons elsewhere, threatening Euro lines of communication.


Again, while some European tech might be important in some operations, particularly naval raids, it is not absolutely crucial on land. A manpower surplus, deployed over a wide area, and using the proper methods, can and did defeat European enemies with advanced tech like guns and horses. For example, luring European forces away from their bases on to rough terrain, prepped as killing zones via ambushes, neutralizes many seeming advantages. Horses for example do poorly in thick jungle or rugged mountain. Heavy armor and trappings that slow you down can be a liability in rough terrain and climate. Slow-firing muskets will cause damage, but a properly positioned human wave charge can overwhelm them, particularly if carried out from multiple angles by good maneuver.

It is not necessary to destroy an entire enemy force to obtain victory- halting an advance or destroying part of the enemy to derail their strategy or advances are enough. A threat to cut off supply lines can be as effective in derailing an enemy advance as an actual battle.
Time and time again, little bands of Maroons in Jamaica with no guns, no horses etc forced British expeditions or operations to withdraw in failure by well timed ambushes and maneuver. They lacked the manpower and supply base for a sustained fight or expulsion of the British from Jamaica, but with what little they had they accomplished much.

[zarahan]

BOTTOM LINE- YES THE MALIANS COULD MAINTAIN THEIR COLONY AGAINST MULTIPLE COMERS.

The end result above would be that the European competitors withdraw in defeat or stalemate, and would be forced to recognize the Malian and presence in the New World. Brazil seems to be the best place for this scenario to unfold. It is the nearest substantial landmass in the New World to West/Central Africa. The needed broad zone of operations with hundreds of thousands of square miles of rugged types of terrain would be available.

Enough natural resources would be on hand to sustain the enterprise. Depending on the colony's location it could be far enough away from the Euro competitors to allow the Malians to carry out their buildup relatively unmolested initially. And while all the above were going on, the Malians would be playing their own divide and conquer routine, allying with one European nation against another as needed.