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Post by zarahan on Feb 16, 2020 22:19:49 GMT -5
Back on track! Excellent. XYZ says: When I came across the papers on the early sailors/people that entered Puerto Rico I were surprised they were NOT Europeans from Spain.Can you give some refs on this? The point appears to be backed also by some books such as Atlantic Africa and the Spanish Caribbean, 1570-1640 By David Wheat. 2016, who points out that the Spanish conquest/colonization efforts depended in many instances on black soldiers, sailors, craftsmen, slaves, laborers etc etc. The Spanish of course set the policies and executed them also with Spaniards as well as Spanish weapons, ships etc. Black soldiers are not responsible for treacherously kidnapping Montezuma for example. Most often blacks were victims of Spanish greed, violence and corruption.  uncpress.org/book/9781469647654/atlantic-africa-and-the-spanish-caribbean-1570-1640/ |
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Post by zarahan on Feb 16, 2020 22:50:31 GMT -5
 ^^LOL, they massaged later edition of the books to purge the "negro element.." |
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Feb 17, 2020 11:00:14 GMT -5
To those who PMed me. I did request that this thread be cleaned up because it was getting off topic combined with lengthy post. From my experience, most newbies or casual readers do NOT read long post because it is too much information at one time. It is better to breakup it into smaller post.
The thread is too important and significant to be buried with off topic discussion and long post. The thread shows an organized effort in the 1700-1800's to make Egypt "white" after Europeans realized the impact AE had on Greece and European civilization.
Although I see no problem with others opening their own thread make make long post etc. But on point questions and critiquing is always welcomed. I am open to criticism.
Why? Because I can backup all that I state with cited references. ALWAYS!
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Feb 17, 2020 14:03:43 GMT -5
My studies on African presence in Iberia
does not allow me to excuse some Afrs quasi-
conquistador roles in S USA, C Amer, or S Amer.
I don't think some were hapless objects lacking agency.
"Little Steven" comes to mind. What an opportunist.
By contrast there was Iber-Afrs like them ones what set up a separate society in Equadorwww.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=012308
I agree with findings of a yte Egy
becoming a Euro need after 2 things
* Napoleon's expedition featuring Denon's art
* W Afrs forced into abject chattel slavery
I've thought that way since reading Volney in my youth.
Quite the poet/philosopher and recommended by scholars
like Rogers, Diop, Jackson, Osei, and ben-Jochannan Denon's art above and Volney quotes below
Mostly, Euros hating Afrs boils down to their failure to
conscientiously cognize Wstrn accomplishments ('cities in the sky)
w/t methods used to achieve them (negating a person's very humanity)
resulting in a guilt complex
that angers the sufferers
against their guilt's source
whom they will lash out against.
This is why they never see you passing by
when they conduct polls out on the street in they hoods nabes
This is why they 'appoint' kids and uncredentialeds
to be the acknowledged accepted voice of Black America
instead of the academics and over 40's
they rely on as their statesmen and speakers.A submerged guilt complex keeps yte AE alive in dem consciousness.
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Post by zarahan on Feb 17, 2020 20:03:31 GMT -5
To those who PMed me. I did request that this thread be cleaned up because it was getting off topic combined with lengthy post. From my experience, most newbies or casual readers do NOT read long post because it is too much information at one time. It is better to breakup it into smaller post. The thread is too important and significant to be buried with off topic discussion and long post. The thread shows an organized effort in the 1700-1800's to make Egypt "white" after Europeans realized the impact AE had on Greece and European civilization. Although I see no problem with others opening their own thread make make long post etc. But on point questions and critiquing is always welcomed. I am open to criticism. Why? Because I can backup all that I state with cited references. ALWAYS! Yes, that backup is important. It is what Diop urged- to show the proofs. One of the jpg pages on Page 1 shows that various enemies, or scorners of Africa and Africans know that the stakes are high, so they have to keep distorting and deceiving. QUOTE: "At the end of the eighteenth century the argument was already beginning to be heard
that if the people of ancient Egypt were African in a way that attached them to the so-
called Ethiopian, Black or Negro race, then the attempt to match the hierarchy of
civilizations to the hierarchy of races, which Europeans had already defined in the late
eighteenth century, could not be sustained. The stakes were particularly high as the
Greeks had been explicit about their debt to the Egyptians. As Bernal, but before him others showed, some of these earlier travelers or scholars had a more balanced view. But the data on Egypt as an African civilization is very threatening to certain EUrocentric narratives and constructs. It drives a sharp stake (so to speak) into the heart of those racialist narratives or constructs. African Egypt threatens the whole edifice of propaganda and distortion they have built up, whether it be in the snarling alt-right, or the more polite but still devious "heriditarian" or "HBD" flavors deployed, or from so-called "liberals" whose strategy is not so much denial or crass distortion, but downplay, divert, selective omissions etc. |
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Post by zarahan on Feb 17, 2020 20:21:54 GMT -5
My studies on African presence in Iberia
does not allow me to excuse some Afrs quasi-
conquistador roles in S USA, C Amer, or S Amer.
I don't think some were hapless objects lacking agency.
"Little Steven" comes to mind. What an opportunist.
By contrast there was Iber-Afrs like them ones what set up a separate society in Equadorwww.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=012308
I agree with findings of a yte Egy
becoming a Euro need after 2 things
* Napoleon's expedition featuring Denon's art
* W Afrs forced into abject chattel slavery
I've thought that way since reading Volney in my youth.
Quite the poet/philosopher and recommended by scholars
like Rogers, Diop, Jackson, Osei, and ben-JochannanDenon's art above and Volney quotes below
Mostly, Euros hating Afrs boils down to their failure to
conscientiously cognize Wstrn accomplishments ('cities in the sky)
w/t methods used to achieve them (negating a person's very humanity)
resulting in a guilt complex
that angers the sufferers
against their guilt's source
whom they will lash out against.
This is why they never see you passing by
when they conduct polls out on the street in they hoods
This is why they 'appoint' kids and uncredentialeds
to be the acknowledged accepted voice of Black America
instead of the academics and over 40's
they rely on as their statesmen and speakers.
Yes. Re the blacks it is a complex history as you have shown with that great reference. Easy theories or claims oft do not reflect the complicated realities on the ground. The blacks had to get ugly in a situation where the only hand dealt was a bad one to start. I think too the Maroons in Jamaica had to cut a deal to get some breathing room, and their treaty called for them to return runaways. They made the best of a harsh opening hand. The slavers brought in Indians to track and hunt them down, as they did on many occasions in the Americas. In Florida they used Creek Indians to try to hunt down the Black Seminole freedom fighters. A submerged guilt complex keeps yte AE alive in dem consciousness. Indeed, many cherished racial narratives are in danger, hence continued denial or downplay.. |
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Feb 18, 2020 10:43:29 GMT -5
Yes. Re the blacks it is a complex history as shown with that great reference. Easy theories or claims oft do not reflect the complicated realities on the ground. The blacks had to get ugly in a situation where the only hand dealt was a bad one to start.I think too the Maroons in Jamaica had to cut a deal to get some breathing room, and their treaty called for them to return runaways. They made the best of a harsh opening hand. The slavers brought in Indians to track and hunt them down, as they did on many occasions in the Americas. In Florida they used Creek Indians to try to hunt down the Black Seminole freedom fighters. A submerged guilt complex keeps yte AE alive in dem consciousness. Indeed, many cherished racial narratives are in danger, hence continued denial or downplay.. Yeah the Skins were trackers, as were Mexicans <sorry nuthin personal boss its just a livin> Is why many became Buffalo Soldiers gittin some git back Then, Outlier(link) settlements had decent relations with Skins There was gene flow between Blx and Skins In some places off-reservation Skins were deemed Blk The 5 Civilized Tribes were big slavery boosters They marched Blx right along the Trail of Tears with 'em There was much female stealing by both when that began The Ecuador Ibero-Africans indeed got dealt bad cards But you can't deny, gotta admit, dey wuz Gangsta !  Evryday is Blk Hist Month, "Chilren get your culture" ~ Bob Marley ~ Yup we all in danger with the US Trump playin Muhammad Ali No denying he shook up the world Is he manifesting the last millenium's Last Gasp or is Earth entering a reversion of human history for this transitional century as it dies out "Time alone o time will tell" ~ Bob Marley ~ |
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Post by zarahan on Feb 18, 2020 17:07:06 GMT -5
DO you have a link to more info on the Afro-Ecuadors?
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Feb 18, 2020 19:28:42 GMT -5
DO you have a link to more info on the Afro-Ecuadors? Other than what's in that link to ES, nah and I can't find nothing less it conflates later Afr immigrants/settlers with the Esmeraldas. Just a lot of slave talk vs a focus on Africans with self-agency. Please post whatever you can find, and that includes any of you readers, maybe to Xyy's Africa Americas thread, unless he objects to that, or, if you think momentum, i.e., at least 15 on topic posts, is possible, a brand spanking new thread of it's very own even. Shucks, why not? Should I transfer the stuff from that old ES post reference here to ESR to kick it off? Heyyelp |
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Feb 18, 2020 19:57:57 GMT -5
I have no problem with adding to threads. This is not about me or you. We agree to that. This is about information sharing and placing blacks and Africans in their rightful place in human history. Correcting all the lies that have been told and written in the last 300years.
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Post by zarahan on Feb 19, 2020 20:16:39 GMT -5
DO you have a link to more info on the Afro-Ecuadors? Other than what's in that link to ES, nah and I can't find nothing less it conflates later Afr immigrants/settlers with the Esmeraldas. Just a lot of slave talk vs a focus on Africans with self-agency. Please post whatever you can find, and that includes any of you readers, maybe to Xyy's Africa Americas thread, unless he objects to that, or, if you think momentum, i.e., at least 15 on topic posts, is possible, a brand spanking new thread of it's very own even. Shucks, why not? Should I transfer the stuff from that old ES post reference here to ESR to kick it off? Heyyelp YEah, either one- new thread or xyz Americas thread. Cant remember if that one was mostly DNA or what... |
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Post by anansi on Feb 20, 2020 7:03:56 GMT -5
Zarahan said:
[
Yes. Re the blacks it is a complex history as you have shown with that great reference.
Easy theories or claims oft do not reflect the complicated realities on the ground.
The blacks had to get ugly in a situation where the only hand dealt was a bad one to start.
I think too the Maroons in Jamaica had to cut a deal to get some breathing room, and
their treaty called for them to return runaways. They made the best of a harsh opening hand.
The slavers brought in Indians to track and hunt them down, as they did on many
occasions in the Americas. In Florida they used Creek Indians to try to hunt down
the Black Seminole freedom fighters.]
Most definitely yes, It's part of the narrative we need to explore some times painfully so.
Codjo was too autocratic the eastern Maroons stood firm or at least tried to before he began to make war upon them, even so the Easterners finally halfassed agree , but constantly violated such agreements, a final rebellion saw a great many sent to Canada and then to Serria Leon.
Mary Hicks:
Africa/Brazil:Black Mariners and the world of South Atlantic Slavery
In this discussion the active participation of Black on both sides of the Atlantic in the trade is revealed even with enslaved themselves.
Btw Go to the pics and vid folder to view this lecture.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Feb 20, 2020 12:45:13 GMT -5
Yes. Re the blacks it is a complex history as you have shown with that great reference. Easy theories or claims oft do not reflect the complicated realities on the ground. Most definitely yes, It's part of the narrative we need to explore some times painfully so. Mary Hicks:
Africa/Brazil:Black Mariners and the world of South Atlantic Slavery In this discussion the active participation of Black on both sides of the Atlantic in the trade is revealed even with enslaved themselves. Anecdote Euro trader: hoy we are happy to meet you negroes Afr trader: we are not negroes but can sell you some |
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Post by zarahan on Feb 20, 2020 22:44:59 GMT -5
lol, a bit of "black humor".. lol
Will check out ANansi's ref. Wow it looks like a must see..
So far looks good.. apparently on Brazilian vessels the black mariners had more scope..
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Post by zarahan on Feb 20, 2020 23:19:46 GMT -5
Says the last paragraph off a preview: "That is why Nott himself gave Morton the credit: he wrote in Types of Mankind that ‘for many centuries prior to the present, as readers of
Rollin and Volney may remember, the Egyptians were reputed to be Negroes, and
Egyptian civilization was believed to have descended the Nile from Ethiopia!’78 If so much is invested still today in debates about the racial identity of the Ancient
Egyptians, it is in large part because of this history according to which the scientific
debate was instigated in support of a program to maintain the subordination of the
Blacks."----------------------------------- Interesting blurb because the old saw was that "Afrocentrics" or proponents of a more balanced African history were in the game for "political" reasons, self-esteem etc. But as the record above shows racial "politics" was first deployed by white racists/racialists, elements of which still continue today, particularly among the self-styled "heriditarians" or alleged innocent "HBD" explorers of "biodiversity". Even Charles "Bell Curve" Murray is running the cynical game these days- under different, more innocuous labels- his latest book title for example slyly talking bout "biodiversity." Volney and co were different from those in academia and the popular media who were to follow after. It was to correct this racist/racialist distortions that a counter movement by black scholars and laymen started. |
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