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Post by nebsen on Apr 22, 2019 17:52:46 GMT -5
This concept I like.. it has great possibility.....!
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Post by anansi on Apr 23, 2019 3:05:52 GMT -5
Yeah I peeped that vid, Need to workout some issues tho, especially Rwanda vs Uganda vs Burundi, but I'm cautiously optimistic .
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Post by zarahan on Apr 23, 2019 13:14:55 GMT -5
I am skeptical of a new 'superpower' type talk by the video maker, given the jealous guarding of old colonial borders by current African countries (more revenue from customs taxes, levies and dues, plus licenses and passport fees etc for local regimes of course), plus past difficulties with a basic customs union/customs union. Its a hard thing to do and even the European Union may start to look shakier once Britain finalizes "Brexit", and if some of the other countries pull out. On top of that are the linguistic, religious and cultural integration issues. To the maker's credit he does mention some of these difficulties rather than just paint a rosy picture, IF this and that happened.
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Post by nebsen on Apr 23, 2019 15:25:21 GMT -5
I am skeptical of a new 'superpower' type talk by the video maker, given the jealous guarding of old colonial borders by current African countries (more revenue from customs taxes, levies and dues, plus licenses and passport fees etc for local regimes of course), plus past difficulties with a basic customs union/customs union. Its a hard thing to do and even the European Union may start to look shakier once Britain finalizes "Brexit", and if some of the other countries pull out. On top of that are the linguistic, religious and cultural integration issues. To the maker's credit he does mention some of these difficulties rather than just paint a rosy picture, IF this and that happened. Zarahan,you bring up very valid points... & these are things that should be considered ...but I see the concept of "Super Power" for the region..not as it is customarily used to denote World Power or domination ..I think such a regional power of these East African countries could inspire a mor unified Africa..a model that other regions can take up suited for them..to make a united Africa...I like his approach in analyzing all the different components to see how they fit as a whole...but I hear you for he is a outsider with a Westren perspectives & some biases ... Here is Wode Maya who I have posted his video's in the past.. talking about the difficulties as a African traveling inside Africa...check out his other video's about Africa..he has a way about him that I find endearing !
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Post by zarahan on Apr 23, 2019 18:08:24 GMT -5
Good video. Its a shame like he says that he as an African cannot move from place to place without all the bureaucratic BS. But I don;t think its gonna change soon. Many of these countries rely heavily on import duties, tariffs, and fees, plus they can tax foreigners via passport and visa fees. People pulling the strings use this as a way of getting paid. So while a lot of people talk unity, and condemn the old colonialists, they are quite happy to enforce the old colonialist borders to get paid. On top of that with the many refugees and poverty striken migrants, cross border movement is unpopular in some places. Wode is trying to appeal to the higher ideal of being an African, African solidarity. But its a tough road. Even EUropean Unity is relatively new in the modern era, and it is these days beginning to look shaky.
Wodo is a funny guy. There is another funny guy- the WHAT'S UP AFRICA guy though he seems to be from UK. He's basically stopped making new vids. In the clip below he says what Africa needs is more sick white people there, that way more serious aid as far as health care might finally reach ordinary Africans. Tongue in cheek and funny but more than a kernel of truth. During the Civil Rights Movement in Mississippi, things had kinda stalled in the early 1960s as thuggish JIm Crow regimes bullied and beat down black activists. But when white people started to come down in droves during Freedom Summer etc to participate, and began to get killed or beaten, then massive media attention came, along with moves by the national government to intervene more.
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Post by nebsen on Apr 23, 2019 19:16:26 GMT -5
Good video. Its a shame like he says that he as an African cannot move from place to place without all the bureaucratic BS. But I don;t think its gonna change soon. Many of these countries rely heavily on import duties, tariffs, and fees, plus they can tax foreigners via passport and visa fees. People pulling the strings use this as a way of getting paid. So while a lot of people talk unity, and condemn the old colonialists, they are quite happy to enforce the old colonialist borders to get paid. On top of that with the many refugees and poverty striken migrants, cross border movement is unpopular in some places. Wode is trying to appeal to the higher ideal of being an African, African solidarity. But its a tough road. Even EUropean Unity is relatively new in the modern era, and it is these days beginning to look shaky. Wodo is a funny guy. There is another funny guy- the WHAT'S UP AFRICA guy though he seems to be from UK. He's basically stopped making new vids. In the clip below he says what Africa needs is more sick white people there, that way more serious aid as far as health care might finally reach ordinary Africans. Tongue in cheek and funny but more than a kernel of truth. During the Civil Rights Movement in Mississippi, things had kinda stalled in the early 1960s as thuggish JIm Crow regimes bullied and beat down black activists. But when white people started to come down in droves during Freedom Summer etc to participate, and began to get killed or beaten, then massive media attention came, along with moves by the national government to intervene more. o] I agree with most of what you said...BUT ! as the saying goes"Don't let Perfect Be The Enemy Of The Good"....!! Personally I think we are at a cross roads of sorts here..we can get to side tracked with all the what if's... & wrongs...We can bury a vision before given chance to materialize...Africa is seen with so many ills esp by the media that we might be sucked in to always see the ills with out knowing it..to much doubt ...I say go for it with eyes wide open with realism to guide.. There is whole new young fresh generation is waiting in Africa to make for the 21thcentury !! It's better Than this the old guard of today such as this...no wonder China feels they can come into Africa for as the Chinese Africans are mere Chidren...This is REAL no skid here !! Now this next video is about the possibilities
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Post by nebsen on May 12, 2019 0:56:06 GMT -5
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Post by zarahan on May 12, 2019 13:29:57 GMT -5
She says the only people that do not know where they come from are black people. I think that is too broad a statement these days- 50 years ago maybe, but after 5 decades of black consciousness, Pan Africanism, black nationalism, and anti-colonialism- no. But its probably mostly a rhetorical talking point, not to be taken literally. She wants disapora blacks to be organized as a support group like Jews are for Israel.
There may be some partial movement on this like the Congress Black Caucasus lobbying for certain policies that impact Africa, etc, but I doubt anything as tight as the Israel- Outside Jew link can be forged with blacks outside Africa. Interests are too diverse, and with a surplus of college grads in some areas, Africans are not anxious for US Blacks to show up and compete with them. Likewise some US blacks like Yvette Carnell (Breaking BRown) are not too enamored of African black immigrants coming to America and reaping benefits originally designed for native Afro-Americans. ONe doesn't have to agree with any of these positions to see that there are several clashing interests in the mix.
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Post by zarahan on May 12, 2019 13:39:04 GMT -5
Its great that Guinea prez gives 2 million Euros to rebuild Notre Dame but one can think of millions of better places in Africa and her own country where that money can be spent. Good breeding livestock for example can provide livelihoods for thousands of poor African people. A few cows and goats can make a measurable lift in poor peoples standard of living RIGHT NOW, plus be a renewable resource for the future. Why isnt the cash being put down where the rubber meets the road? Or how about getting clean potable water for 100 rural villages? There is no shortage of money to rebuild Notre Dame, but a shortage arises when to comes to such basics at the street level for the small man.
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Post by nebsen on May 12, 2019 18:23:15 GMT -5
She says the only people that do not know where they come from are black people. I think that is too broad a statement these days- 50 years ago maybe, but after 5 decades of black consciousness, Pan Africanism, black nationalism, and anti-colonialism- no. But its probably mostly a rhetorical talking point, not to be taken literally. She wants disapora blacks to be organized as a support group like Jews are for Israel. There may be some partial movement on this like the Congress Black Caucasus lobbying for certain policies that impact Africa, etc, but I doubt anything as tight as the Israel- Outside Jew link can be forged with blacks outside Africa. Interests are too diverse, and with a surplus of college grads in some areas, Africans are not anxious for US Blacks to show up and compete with them. Likewise some US blacks like Yvette Carnell (Breaking BRown) are not too enamored of African black immigrants coming to America and reaping benefits originally designed for native Afro-Americans. ONe doesn't have to agree with any of these positions to see that there are several clashing interests in the mix. Zarahan, I have heard you & others say this..yes she made a broad statement but in a way it's true..I live in a pretty international city here in the states ..I've noticed that most immigrants, & other not originally from here & those 1st 2nd generation have a strong connection to there place of origin & are proud of it...but here is a discussion about just that AA Caribbeans & Africans..these are mature young Black folks who I love there in-depth discussions on many topics..this I think this is in NYC( Brooklyn) so they are really tuned in to this..having lived in NYC I think it's the most cosmopolitan in terms of Black thought & culture..I could be wrong but that has been my experience from the past...
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on May 12, 2019 19:03:41 GMT -5
In the words of Sandra Akanke Isidore the Native Black American who "woke" Fela Kuti, a Nigerian, when he visited the states: Head side down Nyash side up.
No. A 3rd/4th World economy has no business further subsidizing a 1st/2nd World economy. France is the world's 6th biggest economy, Guinea is the 138th, by projected GDP 2019. one can think of millions of better places in Africa and her own country where that money can be spent. • Good breeding livestock for example can provide livelihoods for thousands of poor African people. • A few cows and goats can make a measurable lift in poor peoples standard of living RIGHT NOW, plus be a renewable resourcefor the future. • how about getting clean potable water for 100 rural villages? • There is no shortage of money to rebuild Notre Dame, but a shortage arises when to comes to such basics at the street level for the small man. charity begins at home?
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Post by zarahan on May 12, 2019 21:48:03 GMT -5
Indeed- to think of the good that money could have done right there in Africa..
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Post by zarahan on May 12, 2019 21:57:13 GMT -5
Well for sure like you say if they have a strong connection to their homelands, they know where they are from. If you ask Africans and Caribbean people they definitely know where they are from. I figure she was talking broad brush- people don't identify first as "being from Africa"- anymore than Japanese first identification is with Japan. THey don;t primarily identify with "we are from Asia." But heck- its just rhetorical. If you were in NYC, Brooklyn you ain't got no shortage of diversity.
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Post by anansi on May 13, 2019 0:24:02 GMT -5
Zarahan said:[ She says the only people that do not know where they come from are black people. I think that is too broad a statement these days- 50 years ago maybe, but after 5 decades of black consciousness, Pan Africanism, black nationalism, and anti-colonialism-]
Broad maybe but, the brilliant use of mass digital communication, by the various I ain't no African groups ,Nativist Aboriginal, Some of the Hebrew Israelites, or I just plain don't wanna be bothered with no Africans, have roled back some of the strides made in the minds of the young especially.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on May 13, 2019 6:54:18 GMT -5
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