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Post by mellomusings on Dec 29, 2019 9:46:39 GMT -5
So for those whom are still active on this site and as well lurkers you'll recall sometime ago I made a post on the above mentioned topic. So after reading into the subject with a little further depth and detail I can give a quick summary as to how they were constructed and what not. One would simply think that in refernce to potsherd pavements that they were simply broken and then placed into the earth but that would be false. First they would find suitable earth pour water unto it's surface and carefully kneed the earth, next they take the material required for the pavement process and fire them to a fine quality and the edges would be grinded to a smooth edge then finally placed into the earth. Surprisingly this technology was more widespread than I orginally had thought from various coastal states, towards the interior as well as the Sahel regions of West Africa and according to some compared to more comtempary pavements these apparently could withstand heavier traffic and usage. For further information I'll either leave a link to a pdf file or take screenshots from the one I have in my possession if I can't provide a link as well as an image or two.
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Post by zarahan on Dec 29, 2019 20:27:57 GMT -5
WHy start another thread with so little info-just update previous. But thus one doesn't give much detail. When? WHere? WHo? Pavements to where? mosques? palaces? etc etc?
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Dec 30, 2019 11:06:24 GMT -5
Thx my Mello
S'funny? Was going overa Nigeria timeline yesterday that I posted years ago. One entry was Ile Ife paving its streets and courtyards w/terra cotta bricks c 950 CE.
Ah, coincidences!
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Post by zarahan on Dec 30, 2019 14:29:34 GMT -5
Was the technique only confined to Ife or a regional thing?
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Dec 31, 2019 11:04:23 GMT -5
Was the technique only confined to Ife or a regional thing? No speculation No SWAG --sophisticated wild ass guess-- Frankly, I do not know Please investigate and report, thx meanwhile will bump the Muse's original thread and even merge it into this one if the author approves SIDEBAR: I dunno but terracotta bricks ain't potsherds where I come from Then, everywhere else, its adobe architecture But when it comes to Africa they call it mud
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Post by mellomusings on Jan 1, 2020 15:30:00 GMT -5
WHy start another thread with so little info-just update previous. But thus one doesn't give much detail. When? WHere? WHo? Pavements to where? mosques? palaces? etc etc? Didn't really take it into consideration at the time when making the post but I do have a pdf file on hand that gives a more detailed explaination on the subject which I was reluctant to post considering how rather stagnant this forum is at times. To further address your inquiry they were used within both the private amd public space, from what I've gathered they were used to decorate the courtyards of compounds, roads, etc., etc., and according to an oral tradition of the Yoruba people it is stated that the use of pavement came to be as a result of Yoruba princess' dress being tarnished with mud while traveling about town which caused her distress and demanded that the roads be paved. As for the decoration for the interior and exterior of mosques I haven't seen any information concerning the issue but potsherd pavements were observed in Nigeria, Benin, Togo, and is speculated to be far more widespread and dispersed throughout West Africa.
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Post by mellomusings on Jan 1, 2020 15:33:38 GMT -5
Thx my Mello S'funny? Was going overa Nigeria timeline yesterday that I posted years ago. One entry was Ile Ife paving its streets and courtyards w/terra cotta bricks c 950 CE. Ah, coincidences! I wasn't aware of the use of adobe bricks do you have any detailed information on this and if so please feel free to share when time permits you to do so and your welcome. But I'll post some images and a link to a pdf shortly after these responses to you and Zaharan. And you can merge it I don't mind.
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Post by mellomusings on Jan 1, 2020 15:38:58 GMT -5
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Post by zarahan on Jan 2, 2020 1:34:12 GMT -5
Didn't really take it into consideration at the time when making the post but I do have a pdf file on hand that gives a more detailed explaination on the subject which I was reluctant to post considering how rather stagnant this forum is at times. To further address your inquiry they were used within both the private amd public space, from what I've gathered they were used to decorate the courtyards of compounds, roads, etc., etc., and according to an oral tradition of the Yoruba people it is stated that the use of pavement came to be as a result of Yoruba princess' dress being tarnished with mud while traveling about town which caused her distress and demanded that the roads be paved. As for the decoration for the interior and exterior of mosques I haven't seen any information concerning the issue but potsherd pavements were observed in Nigeria, Benin, Togo, and is speculated to be far more widespread and dispersed throughout West Africa. Interesting. Good links. Don't have time to delve into these topics as in times past, but the summary from last section of your article below indicates that the pavements had both a utilitarian and a religious function. Some years ago I read a comment from someone on Facebook that the Yoruba afterlife stories has mention of potsherds. The wicked or the selfish or self-indulgent would find eternity in a dismal wasteland of such sherds, cut off from light and good. Didn't have time to look up his argument. But if there is such a religious aspect, might not the potsherd pavements represent a symbolic or metaphorical route connecting this world, and the next? Attitudes or conduct in this world "paves" the way, so to speak for the quality of existence in the next? The notion of a "metaphorical route" between worlds pops up in pavement discussion in the archaeo book: Material Explorations in African Archaeology By Timothy Insoll p246 books.google.com/books?id=65uOCgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Material+Explorations+in+African+Archaeology+By+Timothy+Insoll&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjx_sH3ouTmAhX2Ap0JHceDAMQQ6AEwAHoECAUQAg#v=onepage&q=pavement&f=falseBut if a religious angle is in view, as your author says, then the type of sherd must also be taken into account. Are they ordinary everyday vessels or something used in a ritual? Different types in a pavement might have different religious or ritual meaning. Any more info on the religious angle? What is the nature of the afterworld at the "other end" of the track? Switching to the practical side, the pavements might have come about as said due to the irritation of various noble ladies t soiling of their garments, but Insoll cites another tradition that the pavements came about because there were simply too many busted pots in the city- too many nuisance pieces lying around- hence they were incorporated in a practical manner, into a pavement which made for a solution to the problem. Similar recycling of ceramics is found in other parts of West Africa. Interestingly fermented water from palm oil processing he says was used in some of the construction, and the pavement was further hardened after drying by building fires on top of the track. If so then it would be a dual track- material as well as metaphorical/physical. But in any event as your article notes the pavements seem to represent a highlight of the blossoming Ife culture of that period. Summary The clustering of the radiocarbon dates fromsix potsherd pavement sites in Ife, and other sites inItagunmodi, Benin, and Old Oyo within 12th-15'hcentury indicates that the flooring of houses, tem-ples, and roads with ceramic tiles was a pan-region-a1 architectural style that developed about the sametime in different parts of Yorubaland. It appears thatbetween the 13th and 14th centuries, potsherd pave-ments had become a pan-Yoruba cultural traditionespecially in the areas of central Yorubaland thatwere undergoing the processes of political central-ization and urbanization. It is possible that thepotsherd pavement site in Ilare belongs to the12"'- 15" century period of Ife's cultural efflores-cence, a period of rapid processes of centralizedsociopolitical formation across Yorubaland. Thepotsherd pavements that were associated with potsprimarily served religious functions in Ife and thiscultural practice is now documented to be present inother parts of central Yorubaland, especially in Ijesaand southern IgbominaJOsun regions.
Ethnographicinformation and archaeological contexts show thatthese pots were used as libation receptacles and ascontainers of spiritual and medicinal ingredients.The evidence at Ife, Ila-Orangun, and Ilareshows that we can develop a classification systemthat recognizes the diverse functional-culturalcontexts of potsherd pavements in Yorubaland. Thefirst step is to identify whether a potsherd pavementis associated with buried pots, followed by theidentification of the type (jar, bowl, flask) and posi-tioning (capsized or upright) of the buried pot(s).The other information should include the spatialrelationships, physical characteristics (decorations,paste, and color); and the artifacts associated withthe buried pot(s) and the pavement. These descrip-tions will help to differentiate potsherd pavementsthat served utilitarian domestic architectural pur-poses from those that functioned in religious andritual contexts. This will enable us to develop a bet-ter understanding of potsherd pavements as a classof material ensembles that characterized cultural-historical development in Yorubaland between the 12th nd 16th centuries.
Potsherd pavements in Ilare-ljesa,Yorubaland: A regional perspective Akinwumi Ogundiran Dept. of Archaeology and the African Studies Center Boston University
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Post by mellomusings on Jan 2, 2020 2:09:11 GMT -5
Didn't really take it into consideration at the time when making the post but I do have a pdf file on hand that gives a more detailed explaination on the subject which I was reluctant to post considering how rather stagnant this forum is at times. To further address your inquiry they were used within both the private amd public space, from what I've gathered they were used to decorate the courtyards of compounds, roads, etc., etc., and according to an oral tradition of the Yoruba people it is stated that the use of pavement came to be as a result of Yoruba princess' dress being tarnished with mud while traveling about town which caused her distress and demanded that the roads be paved. As for the decoration for the interior and exterior of mosques I haven't seen any information concerning the issue but potsherd pavements were observed in Nigeria, Benin, Togo, and is speculated to be far more widespread and dispersed throughout West Africa. Interesting. Good links. Don't have time to delve into these topics as in times past, but the summary from last section of your article below indicates that the pavements had both a utilitarian and a religious function. Some years ago I read a comment from someone on Facebook that the Yoruba afterlife stories has mention of potsherds. The wicked or the selfish or self-indulgent would find eternity in a dismal wasteland of such sherds, cut off from light and good. Didn't have time to look up his argument. But if there is such a religious aspect, might not the potsherd pavements represent a symbolic or metaphorical route connecting this world, and the next? Attitudes or conduct in this world "paves" the way, so to speak for the quality of existence in the next? The notion of a "metaphorical route" between worlds pops up in pavement discussion in the archaeo book: Material Explorations in African Archaeology By Timothy Insoll p246 books.google.com/books?id=65uOCgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Material+Explorations+in+African+Archaeology+By+Timothy+Insoll&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjx_sH3ouTmAhX2Ap0JHceDAMQQ6AEwAHoECAUQAg#v=onepage&q=pavement&f=falseBut if a religious angle is in view, as your author says, then the type of sherd must also be taken into account. Are they ordinary everyday vessels or something used in a ritual? Different types in a pavement might have different religious or ritual meaning. Any more info on the religious angle? What is the nature of the afterworld at the "other end" of the track? Switching to the practical side, the pavements might have come about as said due to the irritation of various noble ladies t soiling of their garments, but Insoll cites another tradition that the pavements came about because there were simply too many busted pots in the city- too many nuisance pieces lying around- hence they were incorporated in a practical manner, into a pavement which made for a solution to the problem. Similar recycling of ceramics is found in other parts of West Africa. Interestingly fermented water from palm oil processing he says was used in some of the construction, and the pavement was further hardened after drying by building fires on top of the track. If so then it would be a dual track- material as well as metaphorical/physical. But in any event as your article notes the pavements seem to represent a highlight of the blossoming Ife culture of that period. Summary The clustering of the radiocarbon dates fromsix potsherd pavement sites in Ife, and other sites inItagunmodi, Benin, and Old Oyo within 12th-15'hcentury indicates that the flooring of houses, tem-ples, and roads with ceramic tiles was a pan-region-a1 architectural style that developed about the sametime in different parts of Yorubaland. It appears thatbetween the 13th and 14th centuries, potsherd pave-ments had become a pan-Yoruba cultural traditionespecially in the areas of central Yorubaland thatwere undergoing the processes of political central-ization and urbanization. It is possible that thepotsherd pavement site in Ilare belongs to the12"'- 15" century period of Ife's cultural efflores-cence, a period of rapid processes of centralizedsociopolitical formation across Yorubaland. Thepotsherd pavements that were associated with potsprimarily served religious functions in Ife and thiscultural practice is now documented to be present inother parts of central Yorubaland, especially in Ijesaand southern IgbominaJOsun regions.
Ethnographicinformation and archaeological contexts show thatthese pots were used as libation receptacles and ascontainers of spiritual and medicinal ingredients.The evidence at Ife, Ila-Orangun, and Ilareshows that we can develop a classification systemthat recognizes the diverse functional-culturalcontexts of potsherd pavements in Yorubaland. Thefirst step is to identify whether a potsherd pavementis associated with buried pots, followed by theidentification of the type (jar, bowl, flask) and posi-tioning (capsized or upright) of the buried pot(s).The other information should include the spatialrelationships, physical characteristics (decorations,paste, and color); and the artifacts associated withthe buried pot(s) and the pavement. These descrip-tions will help to differentiate potsherd pavementsthat served utilitarian domestic architectural pur-poses from those that functioned in religious andritual contexts. This will enable us to develop a bet-ter understanding of potsherd pavements as a classof material ensembles that characterized cultural-historical development in Yorubaland between the 12th nd 16th centuries.
Potsherd pavements in Ilare-ljesa,Yorubaland: A regional perspective Akinwumi Ogundiran Dept. of Archaeology and the African Studies Center Boston UniversityNow that you've mentioned it, it has come back to memory of first hearing of potsherd pavements through Yoruba mythology although at the time I had not thought much on it until now. Although I'm not completely aware of it's religious purpose but I am more so focused and concerned with it's archelogical record and practicality but that would be a point of interest to further investigate. And yes there are multiple oral traditions that point towards the origin of this technology but I used this one example in particular as it was one I could readily call back to memory and most fimilar with.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Jan 2, 2020 16:49:14 GMT -5
Adobe is baked mud. Archived are imgs of brickyards and text on the process and rough casting maintenance of the buildings in Mali In Djenné adobe is called fereyNigerians manufactured ceramic tiles They didn't use potsherds (broken pieces of pottery) no matter Orijemie & Ogiogwa called 'em so Nowhere inda woild are "edge-laid tiles arranged in a herringbone style" labeled simple potsherds. At least the Metropolitan Museum of Art recognizes paving tiles from refuse potsherds. For Eurasians the same thing is called opus spicatum
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Jan 2, 2020 18:19:50 GMT -5
Was the technique only confined to Ife or a regional thing? Ceramic tile pavements were in northern (Surame, Old Oyo) southwestern (Ile-Ife, Ila-Orangun, Ilare-Ijesa, Ilobu, Ope-Odu) and southern (Bini) Nigeria. They extend westward to Togo.
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Post by mellomusings on Jan 2, 2020 23:35:28 GMT -5
Adobe is baked mud. Archived are imgs of brickyards and text on the process and rough casting maintenance of the buildings in Mali In Djenné adobe is called fereyNigerians manufactured ceramic tiles They didn't use potsherds (broken pieces of pottery) no matter Orijemie & Ogiogwa called 'em so Nowhere inda woild are "edge-laid tiles arranged in a herringbone style" labeled simple potsherds. At least the Metropolitan Museum of Art recognizes paving tiles from refuse potsherds. For Eurasians the same thing is called opus spicatum You do understand that ceramics includes pottery and that it can consist of three different kinds material being earthenware, stoneware, and porcelian. Although I'm not really interested in debating over the terminology of whether it should be labeled/classified potsherd or ceramic but rather sharing this little known aspect of historical urbanization found within Africa. And as you should know as everyone else whom participates on this forum that Africans have produced high quality pottery throughout it's history up until modern times and the most explementary examples having highly glazed and glossed finishes so I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make. Whenever you do find the time as I am aware that you have a busy day to day schedule to take time and read the link I have provided it explains the process a bit more in depth than I and includes important steps within it's production I forgot to list, that's if you haven't reviewed it's contents already. Also one more thing they would also sometimes incorporate the use of stone, pebbles, cobble and quartz if I'm not mistaken alongside the "ceramics", to add a bit more detail to this post and also thank you for your participation and responses thus far.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Jan 3, 2020 11:13:38 GMT -5
Shhwew, who don't know ceramics goes back ~12000 years in Africa @ Ounjougu in Mali My point is the pavement tiles weren't pieces of broken pots so why call em that. Euros don't describe their ceramic pavements whether ancient or modern as potsherds Google img srch TERRA COTTA PAVEMENT Results are 'universal' minus inner Africa Google img srch POTSHERD PAVEMENT Now where are the results Africa only Google img srch TERRA COTTA PAVEMENT AFRICA Hey! Where Africa!! Google img srch POTSHERD PAVEMENT EUROPE Why are the results 99% Africa 😱 Please continue using the degrading term I really don't care I never told you not to The great almighty whitey Metropolitan Museum of Art refuses to call em potsherd pavements anymore Wonder why I'm reaching out to those willing to learn to see through Afrikan Eyes and define and name our things for ourselves To define ourselves name ourselves create for ourselves and speak for ourselves instead of by others Self Determination Great thread on a little known topic Looking forward to more good stuff from you my Mello
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Post by mellomusings on Jan 3, 2020 14:27:00 GMT -5
Shhwew, who don't know ceramics goes back ~12000 years in Africa @ Ounjougu in Mali My point is the pavement tiles weren't pieces of broken pots so why call em that. Euros don't describe their ceramic pavements whether ancient or modern as potsherds Google img srch TERRA COTTA PAVEMENT Results are 'universal' minus inner Africa Google img srch POTSHERD PAVEMENT Now where are the results Africa only Google img srch TERRA COTTA PAVEMENT AFRICA Hey! Where Africa!! Google img srch POTSHERD PAVEMENT EUROPE Why are the results 99% Africa 😱 Please continue using the degrading term I really don't care I never told you not to The great almighty whitey Metropolitan Museum of Art refuses to call em potsherd pavements anymore Wonder why I'm reaching out to those willing to learn to see through Afrikan Eyes and define and name our things for ourselves To define ourselves name ourselves create for ourselves and speak for ourselves instead of by others Self Determination Great thread on a little known topic Looking forward to more good stuff from you my Mello I don't view the term as degrading or derogatory I just found the subject in question to be a rather exciting personal find that I wanted to share so I don't to much concern myself as to how others view African history or in comparison to. African history is rich within it's own right that's why it's one my faveriote pastime activities that I am passionate about whether it be books, blogs, or academic articles and journals anything really that I can get my hands on I thoroughly enjoy. So I saw this as an opportunity to share my passion amongst like minded individuals and I saw that on this site no one had made a thread about so I jumped on the opportunity to do so and if you were already aware of the potsherd ceramic whatever pavements why is it that you hadn't already posted on it and if your goal is to teach like minded individuals why not start here as it appears that most of the active members here are on the same page although differing opinions.
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