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Post by beyoku on Jul 13, 2010 15:33:34 GMT -5
beyoku- Egyptian hairstyles vary from straight hair to wavy and curly hair. You're just assuming all "Africans" have the same type of hair, they don't. Straight hair is native to East Africans. Didnt mean it that way. What I am saying is from an African perspective, A man with close cropped hair that places "Animal fat" in it will make it do this: I have seen and personally taken pictures of Egyptian busts with hair like this. Yes East Africans have "Straight" hair but even their hair is more "Woolly" than more homogeneous Somali who really have "straight" hair. Some East Africans (Ethiopian/Eritrean) also place Butter (Animal Fat) in their hair for treatment. I am told it is a very old practice. www.hierakonpolis.org/resources/nn-10-1998.pdfClose inspection revealed that the Mudira’s natural hair of slightly more than shoulder-length had been augmented with a considerable number of artificial lengths of false hair, very reminiscent of modern dreadlocks, meticulously worked into the natural hair to create an imposing high coiffure. The complex styling techniques made it clear that her particular hairstyle was the result of many hours of careful work carried out by someone other than herself. When I read something like this, it simple IS what it IS. She HAD dreadlocks, and many of the styles I see of ancient Egyptian women with Wavy braids LOOKS EXACTLY how dreadlocks look when women braid their dreads and then unbraid them. it just seems to be that things haven't gotten to the point that when we see Ancient Egyptians that have hair that looks EXACTLY like this, they will just come out and say it really it this: Its sort of like the issue of Egyptian brown skin not really being.............brown.
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Post by truthteacher2007 on Jul 13, 2010 16:00:15 GMT -5
Yeah, so they could manage styles like the below Oh, finger coils. Damn, I wish my hair was thick enough to do this! Actually, you would only need to use irons if the hair was very wavey or straight. Otherwise, it can be done on curly or kinky hair without the use of any type of heat. However, they would have used different types of fats and oils to help lay the cuticle down and give the style hold. I know that sometimes bees wax was used for hold, but they could have also used the gel from flax seeds or alo vera plants. Here's an example of what it looks like in real life. And here's how its done. www.youtube.com/watchv=mtwSpljwiNwAnd here was my attempt You could also achieve the same look by coating the hair with some sort of heavy oil, gel or fats and twisting 2 or 3 strands into coils.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Jul 13, 2010 16:32:49 GMT -5
You lost me. Wooly, kinky, nappy; are all synonymous terms to describe the hair of most of the blacks of Africa, Andaman, Fiji, etc. But this is outside Egyptology and my point remains (wooly is how the predominant hair type of Egyptians, Colchians, and "Libyans" -- archaic term for continental Africans -- is described. Look up the word ulotrichous. It comes from oulothrix the word Herodotus used. It's the word anthropologists used for 'negro hair.' Sure, but "wooly" isn't "kinky" it means course due to the heat.
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Post by truthteacher2007 on Jul 13, 2010 16:37:04 GMT -5
Sure, but "wooly" isn't "kinky" it means course due to the heat. Actually wooly hair is kinky, but you are also right in that often times, even when the hair is straight, its often very coarse, which is still the case with many Egyptians today. The thing is though that there are many gradations and not everyone has the exact same hair type. There is a wide spectrum of hair types within the kinky or wooly category. Some hair textures are loose and some are more tightly coiled but they are all wooly. Examples. I'm not pushing any products here, but they did have a good exqmple of the range of African wooly textures and how they react to water and styling products. Today we have all types of creams and such, but back in the days they used a variety of animal and plant derived oils and fats. www.youtube.com/watchv=g02R7n77kHQwww.youtube.com/watchv=Ev0v_w8cQ5Mwww.youtube.com/watchv=bFexFLn011Uwww.youtube.com/watchv=AWcaDWL_oXcwww.youtube.com/watchv=hAb2KSLp1tAwww.youtube.com/watchv=V33LG65wip0What I have observed is that very few Egyptians and Nubians have hair as tightly coiled as the last model. Most have hair textures like the first 3 or 4 models. It tends to be a looser curly. My only correction of Herodutus was that he was making a very broad generalization. Not every single Egyptian had or has wooly hair, but I guess coming from a country where straight hair was the norm and going to a country where wooly hair was common, what grabs his attention the most is that which was different, meaning the wooly hair. The people with straight hair wouldn't grab his attention because for him, that's just normal.
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Post by egyptianplanet on Jul 13, 2010 19:23:13 GMT -5
Well modern Egyptians go to the salon to get their hair straightened, not curled. Someone there told me, "no Egyptian has 100% straight hair." Okay, I understand that, but straight hair is indigenous to Egypt and much of East Africa. Even in Upper Egypt, unless I'm mistaken!?
Also, beyoku, many Assyrians were said to wear dreadlocks as well. This wasn't an "African" thing wearing locks were common in other places as well.
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Post by truthteacher2007 on Jul 13, 2010 23:20:21 GMT -5
Well modern Egyptians go to the salon to get their hair straightened, not curled. Someone there told me, "no Egyptian has 100% straight hair." Okay, I understand that, but straight hair is indigenous to Egypt and much of East Africa. Even in Upper Egypt, unless I'm mistaken!? Also, beyoku, many Assyrians were said to wear dreadlocks as well. This wasn't an "African" thing wearing locks were common in other places as well. These days in Egypt its hard to tell what's going on. Everyone is using chemical relaxers, or their blow drying it and flat ironing it straight. Then you have the fact that almost all muslim women in Egypt are wearing hegab now so you have no idea what's going on unde there. The guys are just as bad because they tend to cut their hair really short and brush it straight, or they relax it too. If you go to Egypt you see a whole lot of guys with like 4 inches of curly, kinky new growth, but 5 or 6 inches of relaxed ends. I just want to grab them and cut it all off. Very few guys will grow out their afros because they've bought into the idea that straight is better than curly. One thing I noticed though, is that even today, everyone uses a lot of oil in their hair. Even if its straigh, they slick it down and part it in the middle. I can always tell who ust left Assiut yesterday when I see them walking around my neighborhood. What I object to though is this idea that if a person doesn't have wooly hair then they don't have African hair. Straight and wavey hair is part of the natural spectrum of hair textures found in Africa. As a matter of fact, I did see a few wavey air wigs in the museum in Cairo. There's also one in the MEtropolitan Museum in New York. The hair was separated into sections that were allowed to hang frr, but there was string wrapped around the ends to creat an effect that looked like dreds. So yes, these hair types are part of the African world as well, and if you look at the iconography, you will see there were hairstyles for these hair types as well. Yet they will call wooly hair negro hair and straight hair caucasian as if to say one is African and the other one isn't. The first time I went to Egypt I met a Nubian guy. He had streotypical African features, very dark skin, very thick lips and a very wide flat nose. The only thing was he had jet black, high glossy, pin straigh hair. It was not a perm, it was natural. So if there issuch a thing as negro hair and caucasian hair, how can a negro have caucasian hair? It just goes to shgow how rediculous things get when you try to qualify the African world through a European world view. If its hair and its on an Africans head, then its African hair, PERIOD!
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Post by truthteacher2007 on Jul 13, 2010 23:39:03 GMT -5
Well modern Egyptians go to the salon to get their hair straightened, not curled. Someone there told me, "no Egyptian has 100% straight hair." Okay, I understand that, but straight hair is indigenous to Egypt and much of East Africa. Even in Upper Egypt, unless I'm mistaken!? Also, beyoku, many Assyrians were said to wear dreadlocks as well. This wasn't an "African" thing wearing locks were common in other places as well. Yes, this is true. The Spartans wore dreda and evn today you can find mystics in India who wear them as well. The issue here though that I think Beyoku is making, is that they do not want to come right out and call it what it is, dread locks. Why? Because dreads are universally associated with Africans and people of African origin and we don't want people associating Egypt with anything African. I read the article Beyoku provided. there is a section on hair by Joan Fletcher. Its a shortend version of a much more extencive article. In the longer article. You'll notice that right in the beginning of the article she categorizes most of the Egyptian hair as being Caucasian, not Negro. So what is the underlying message? Egyptians aren't Africans. She uses terms like very similar to dread locks instead of calling it what it is a head full of dreads. There is no such thig as similar to dreads, a dread is a dread. That's like saying someone is in a state very similar to pregnancy! Further in the article she describes the wigs in the Cairo Museum, describing them as "curly". These are the exact same wigs she's talking about. Now you tell me, do any of these wigs look like curly "Caucasian hair", or are these some of the biggest nappiest AFROS you ever seen in your life? The objection that both Beyoku and I are voicing is the misleading language that is used to give the impression that these were not African peoples, they didn't have African hair textures and they were not wearing African hair styles. Why couldn't she just come straight out and say they were afro wigs? Egyptian hair styles all fell into a matrix of hair treatment consisten with other African cultures, from the straightest to the kinkiest.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Jul 14, 2010 17:19:39 GMT -5
Well it seems dreadlocks has nowadays become what used to be called bathroom locks. The difference? Dreadlocks is hair left undisturbed by comb, scissors, and razor. Bathroom locks is an artificial attended hairstyle that imitates the look of dreadlocks. I highly doubt greeks or Assyrians left their hair undisturbed long enough for it to matt up into dreadlocks. In the ancient world the only people I seem to find with real dreadlocks are - sadhu mendicants
- mourners in Egypt,
- eastern "Libyans,"
- Israelites, and
- assorted folk having not invented or adopted the comb.
That dreadlocks surfaced in the middle of last century is mostly due to Israelite expression as adapted by the Rastafari. It's the outward sign of a sacred oath. As such it was Kenya's Mau Mau who also used it as evidence of a vow. There are other places on the continent where dreadlocks also signify a value religious in nature. The Last Poets said: "he has taken our most violent and militant leaders and stuck lollipops up their arse to pacify their black power farts." If so, the highly political dreadlocks of pre-1990 were perverted into an artistic expression as a hairstlye stripped of all its original sacred or political significance.
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Post by egyptianplanet on Jul 14, 2010 20:37:47 GMT -5
That's hardly a thing to argue. The hairstyle of choice is dreadlocks to the Assyrians. Even in their own artwork. Not much of an argument. Assyrians stereotypically wore their hair this way. Rameses even commented on it.
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Post by anansi on Jul 14, 2010 21:45:10 GMT -5
Al~Takruri
That dreadlocks surfaced in the middle of last century is mostly due to Israelite expression as adapted by the Rastafari. It's the outward sign of a sacred oath. As such it was Kenya's Mau Mau who also used it as evidence of a vow. There are other places on the continent where dreadlocks also signify a value religious in nature.
The Last Poets said: "he has taken our most violent and militant leaders and stuck lollipops up their arse to pacify their black power farts."
If so, the highly political dreadlocks of pre-1990 were perverted into an artistic expression as a hairstlye stripped of all its original sacred or political significance.[/quote] [/color]
Agreed back in the in the day as told by my uncles the police used to harassed,jail,beat and cut the hair of Rastas..the prevailing official mood was it was counter to whatever the government/ Babylon stand for and the rejection of the white queen (Elizabeth) in favor of a black king (Haile Selassie ) plus the in your face black beauty is natural concept at a time when the closer one was to the Brits physically the better off you are.
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Post by egyptianplanet on Jul 14, 2010 22:47:56 GMT -5
Brits were actually voted one of the ugliest people in a recent survey. I, for one, prefer nice straight white teeth too much to want to look British.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Jul 15, 2010 9:27:21 GMT -5
Obviously you don't know what dreadlocks are since you can't distinguish between matted hair, braids, and long wavy hair. Dreadlocks are the very antithesis of the concept of a hairstyle. That's hardly a thing to argue. The hairstyle of choice is dreadlocks to the Assyrians. Even in their own artwork. Not much of an argument. Assyrians stereotypically wore their hair this way. Rameses even commented on it.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Jul 15, 2010 9:33:37 GMT -5
In Philadelphia a house of dread known as The Move was bombed by helicopter by the Philadelphia police under order from the city's black mayor. Needless to say the police operated with heavy manners on anyone wearing dreadlocks. The average black in the USA thought negatively of people with locked hair some even calling it dog hair. But one must be of the people to understand the intrinsics of that people. Bathroom locks just are not DREAD. Al~Takruri That dreadlocks surfaced in the middle of last century is mostly due to Israelite expression as adapted by the Rastafari. It's the outward sign of a sacred oath. As such it was Kenya's Mau Mau who also used it as evidence of a vow. There are other places on the continent where dreadlocks also signify a value religious in nature.
The Last Poets said: "he has taken our most violent and militant leaders and stuck lollipops up their arse to pacify their black power farts."
If so, the highly political dreadlocks of pre-1990 were perverted into an artistic expression as a hairstlye stripped of all its original sacred or political significance. [/color] Agreed back in the in the day as told by my uncles the police used to harassed,jail,beat and cut the hair of Rastas..the prevailing official mood was it was counter to whatever the government/ Babylon stand for and the rejection of the white queen (Elizabeth) in favor of a black king (Haile Selassie ) plus the in your face black beauty is natural concept at a time when the closer one was to the Brits physically the better off you are.[/quote]
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Post by beyoku on Jul 15, 2010 11:08:21 GMT -5
Obviously you don't know what dreadlocks are since you can't distinguish between matted hair, braids, and long wavy hair. Dreadlocks are the very antithesis of the concept of a hairstyle. That's hardly a thing to argue. The hairstyle of choice is dreadlocks to the Assyrians. Even in their own artwork. Not much of an argument. Assyrians stereotypically wore their hair this way. Rameses even commented on it. I didn't think anyone would take it there but its good that has been cleared up.
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Post by anansi on Jul 16, 2010 0:04:04 GMT -5
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