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Post by africurious on Jan 8, 2019 22:36:48 GMT -5
No aDNA? If not then you have no point! Why? "A study published Thursday in the journal Current Biology found only evidence of Polynesian DNA in human remains on the island that predate European contact in 1722. "link
The title of this thread refutes this alone. This same type of study on the population structure of "living" populations on Easter Island, found no sign of the African E1b1a that the study which is the subject of this thread found in ancient Easter Island populations. The same sources from Ivan Van Sertima's famous " They Came Before Columbus" book, in which he used to established the presence of Africoid populations here in the Americas. You must not confide in the works of one of the late Rutgers professor and master teacher (how did I not know this)?
While it's not denied that the source used in Van Sertima's book to confirm the presence of "Negroid" populations in the Americas is based on old models of "racial" characterizations, the reality is is that there is genetic and phenotypic distinction of so called "Negroid" populations as CA Diop stated in 'The African Origins of Civilization'.
Ehhh no! Unless you can point to a living population that the "Negroid" classification can possibly be confused with then you have no point.
So you sifted through all of that information, but forgot to read the context to the data?
"Poe (1997), Keita (1993,1996), Carlson and Gerven (1979)and MacGaffey (1970) have made it clear that these people were Africans or Negroes with so-called 'caucasian features' resulting from genetic drift and microevolution (Keita, 1996; Poe, 1997). This would mean that the racial composition of 26.9 percent of the crania found at Tlatilco and 9.1 percent of crania from Cerro de las Mesas were of African origin."
This statement was directly below the last table. Don't know how you missed it. READ IN BETWEEN THE LINES OF RESEARCH. It takes genuine intelligence to decipher the true narrative, as there is no standard for this type of investigation.
Unless you can find a modern living population that can be mistaken as Negroid with no genetic relationship to "Negroid" populations then your claim is bunk. As I've stated before the trail of sickle cell that goes throughout southeast Asia is the proof of a genetic relationship between Niger-Congo speakers (where sickle cell came from) and certain southeast Asian populations who may resemble one another. This study finding E1b1a coming from the Southeast Asian Pacific (as one would also logically conclude that the Polynesian ancestry of the Island came from as well) only strengthens my argument. It's funny because Africurious is the same dude who didn't even know how to properly format your post. Your original post that I'm responding to was so horribly formatted that it was unreadable, and you obviously took that advise when I brought it up in my recent post that you had pressed Anansi to delete. You like throw shots, but you can't take them. Then you want to cry about abuse pretending to be the victim. That is so weak and cowardly!
ANANSI is he getting threatened with suspension in his inbox for these constant sly insults or is it only me? Are his insults being "personally edited" by you, as mines are. I hope that this isn't only going to be on me because we have opposing views on certain topics!
As stated close to half a century ago in the "Destruction of Black Civilization" this is perhaps the worst issue with certain members on Egyptsearchreloaded and the old forum.
I didn’t ask Anansi to delete squat. That’s between you and him. My post wasn’t meant for you as I clearly stated: And your reply just proves me right. You don’t understand what I wrote. That’s why you said below nonsense: But, as is shown from the part of the study I quoted, aDNA was tested. In fact, almost everything in the quote concerns aDNA as I've highlighted below: So you've proven yourself to be a careless scholar. The rest of the stuff you wrote doesn’t even make enough sense for me to address. All you have is a surface understanding of the relevant terms and concepts. And you will never get far beyond that cuz you’re too busy trying to win arguments with poor reasoning and ad hominem instead of learning.
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Post by africurious on Jan 7, 2019 1:14:06 GMT -5
Hahaha The Ancient One proved to be an upsetter. DNA proves ancestral relationships. Eske Willerslev's genomic analysis showed one thing. Regardless of long or broad head • Eva • Clovis peoples • the Ancient One it's the same general genepool as modern indigenous Americans. I used to ponder a southern Pacific crossing of 'Austro-Melanesian' to South America. I wonder what ADMIXTURE would make of that? I mean what frequency their K is in an Indigenous American chart. I accept medieval Malien mariners reached South America. Don't know if there were enough to leave much of a genomic impact over 600 yrs later. You can make out a bit of austro-melanesian type dna among Nat Ams at k6 in Fig5 of the Willerslev paper. It's more present in some Nat Am pops than others. I believe the Willerslev paper argues it came from N America. Another paper from Reich came out the same year and found the same austro-mela dna among Nat Ams even in Alaska/Canada. They believed it was from a shared ancestor that mixed in Asia before Nat Ams crossed over to the americas. I stopped considering the southern pacific crossing after I found out polynesians got to polynesia not that long ago. I don't know much about the alleged Malian crossing aside from what I read in Van Sertima's They Came Before Columbus a while back. I'm not confident in much of what he writes on the topic though. But, regarding the genetic impact if it did happen, idk if we'd even be able to tell. There were africans from the Mali and Senegambia regions taken to Mexico in the slave trade so how would we sort that out.
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Post by africurious on Jan 5, 2019 18:57:46 GMT -5
^In addition to the above, how the heck didn't the egyptians teach the hawaiians how to work metal but supposedly taught them hieroglyphs? Hawaiians were a stone age people. Metal working would've been helpful. Well for starters the Island of Hawaii has no iron ore to mine! There is virtually nothing that can come from that lava formed island as far as metallurgy. Give me an example of this being done. You're only talking about of your azz again. If you're not familiar with the late Ivan Van Sertima's book "they came before Columbus" he makes reference to the mixed race individuals from the data set; "This is rather surprising because Constance Irwin and Dr. Wiercinski (1972) have both reported that skeletal remains of Africans have been found in Mexico."
Dr. Wiercinski (1972) supports this claim with skeletal evidence from several Olmec sites where he found skeletons that were analogous to the Negroid type black.
Wiercinski discovered that 13.5 percent of the skeletons from Tlatilco and 4.5 percent of the skeletons from Cerro de las Mesas were Africoid (Rensberger,1988; Wiercinski, 1972; Wiercinski & Jairazbhoy 1975). He made a more detailed reference to the findings in one of his famous lecture tours that's on youtube. ....You just prove my point that you are a retard. "Something" real? So you are a linguist qualified to validate or dismiss a genetic relationships between languages? There are too many grammatical errors your post with regards to your language transition for me to think that you are capable of any sort of linguistic critique. Again you show that I should never entertain your post. I road you out so bad in that thread about cooning Africans earlier this year that you have obsessed with trying to one up or besmirch any and every thing that comes I present. Something that you failed to acnknowledge in your pettiness is the actual f^cking stories of the Hawaiians and the ancient Kemites were telling the same thing. If the diffusion of the story of one culture's supreme deity is not proof of cultural interaction by your standards then so be it. I and others (and an actual Hawaiian who noted the comparison) on the other hand see it as heavy proof. Edit by mgt. You know why. I thought telling ppl f this and f that, and saying they need to go suck things were grounds for being banned or at least an account suspension. All I see here is a modified post and no punitive action. Maybe ESR has devolved into the worse parts of ES? Oh well... I know Asante wouldn't bust a grape in a food fight. Typical online anonymous tough guy but straight sucka in real life. Now let's get to the scholarship for those so inclined. Below is a genetic study of native Hawaiians and they failed to find any african dna: journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0047881#pone-0047881-g001Now let's address the supposed "negroid" skeletons found among ancient americans. Asante posted 3 sources: Rensberger,1988; Wiercinski, 1972; Wiercinski & Jairazbhoy 1975. However, there are really 1 source cuz the other 2 get their "negroid skeleton" claim from here: Wiercinski,A. (1972). "Inter- and Intrapopulational Racial Differentiation of Tlatilco, Cerro de Las Mesas, Teothuacan, Monte Alban and Yucatan Maya", XXXlX Congreso Intern. de Americanistas, Lima 1970, Vol. 1, p. 231-252. As is obvious from the title of Wiercinski's paper he believes in race and is operating off the bogus racial (and racist) anthropology of the times. Race is social construct but has no biological validity as shown by bio-anthropologists for the last 30 years or so now. That's why Asante has to use these old ass studies to try to back his claim. Now how did Wiercinski classify some of the skeletons as "negroid"? There're several different models that assign race based on various cranial measurements. All these models don't agree (that's red flag #1). Wiercinski then compared the measurements of the ancient native american skulls to those of what he thought was 3 racial representatives: mongolians, ugandans and polish. Then he assigned their race based on how close the native american skulls were to these 3 groups based on the model he used. Any bioanthropologist who did this today would be laughed out of academia. That's how ridiculous his methods were. But it gets even worse, he actually thought these native americans were descended from more than just "negroids". Actually he's more specific than "negroids"--he says "equatorial - Bushmenoid" so that rules out Ancient Egyptians and West Africans as the source of the supposed "negroid" ancestry. See below for table of his findings: Racial composition: % of Tlatilco % of Cerro Laponoid 21% 32% Armenoid 18% 4.5% Ainoid-Arctic 11% 14% Pacific 36% 45% Equatorial - Bushmenoid 14% 4.5% So according to Wiercinski, the 2nd largest ancestry of the olmecs were NE Europeans such Laplanders (Laponoid), people from the area of Armenia/N Iran/W Turkey (Armenoid) contributed even more ancestry than africans, Ainu ppl from Japan/Siberians (Ainoid-Artic) and ppl from the Pacific all contributed more ancestry to Native Ams than Africans. It's obvious that Wiercinski's "study" was pseudo-science at best. But ideologues eat up his nonsense like pie and cherry pick his findings to back their wacky claims. Also cranial measurement is a faulty way to assign a skeleton to a population or ancestry because it's highly biased by the sample skulls and measurement model one uses. Some bioanthropologists who did genetic study of Native Americans even called out this problem in this study:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4733658/. They too got incorrect ancestry assignment of Native Am skeletons using skull measurements. Also there's the famous case of Kennewick Man. See this study: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4878456/I know Asante can't understand the above but this post isn't for him. It's for those who wanna learn.
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Post by africurious on Dec 29, 2018 15:02:31 GMT -5
^^ Why doesn't it make any sense, and how do you know what they write is worded incorrectly? And what is the original stat that the article portrays incorrectly, from your point of view? It's a complaint so it's not relevant to verifying a somewhat recent stat. Buy black complaints almost a century old are relevant because they address an issue that is STILL very current. And indeed the very same article you post confirms what I say above, for it references the complaint re the limited circulation of the black dollar in the black community. Indeed it references a show by Roland Martin talking about boycotts, the need for blacks to be more loyal, and a program to boost such loyalty, because of the situation. newsone.com/3278966/lifespan-of-a-dollar-in-african-american-communities-is-6-hours/There’s nothing wrong with arguing ideas provided all parties are discussing things honestly, amicably and seeking knowledge. You’re dishonest, love to twist things to set up strawman arguments and just argue for arguments sake. All this time I thought Takruri was overreacting when he recently said these things about you as I didn’t follow the exchange between you 2 in-depth. 1st you purposely misquote me to suit your ends. I now know it was purposely done. Now you’re purposely claiming I’m arguing things I didn’t. I said the stat was bogus and my article focused on showing the stat was bogus so how on earth would the article contradict my claim? Then you went on to post link to an article with stat that my article directly debunked. I don’t like liars or fakers. I’m done talking with you about this.
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Post by africurious on Dec 29, 2018 14:37:40 GMT -5
Africurious said: AU can't stop ish as has been shown countless times before. Then what good are they!!! they exist for this purpose. Lol. Supposedly they exist for things like this. But the AU is meant to not have much power over members cuz otherwise the many dictators on the continent would have other ppl interfering with their affairs. Their general MO is I don’t bother you and you don’t bother me. It’s rare scenario when the AU takes strong action against member. And in this case it’s a large relatively powerful country so what can they do aside from maybe trade sanctions. I’m not even sure that’s within the AU’s remit or worth it to other members to have such a fight for this.
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Post by africurious on Dec 29, 2018 10:04:12 GMT -5
Wow, as if the war in yemen wasn't already enough of a disgrace. Saudis using children to fight their wars too? I bet these sudanis are gonna get even more fundamentalist in their religious beliefs from hanging around the saudis and emiratis. Then they return home if not dead and eventually in several yrs there're major issues from this fundamentalism. AU can't stop ish as has been shown countless times before. And this will continue unless saudi can be embarrassed enough by media that america and top euro countries can pressure them cuz they don't want the bad press either.
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Post by africurious on Dec 29, 2018 9:48:31 GMT -5
Africurious says: you posted that fake stat about money circulation purposely to fool us What exactly was the fake statistic? The article posted says that money does not circulate much "within" the black community. This complaint about lack of circulation by the way is almost a century old, and appears in "buy black" campaigns being run in the 1920s- during the segregation era. Please post my entire sentence/give full context when quoting me. Otherwise, it gives a false impression of what I said. I mentioned what was the fake stat a few pages back and also gave quotes from and link to an article that thoroughly debunked the stat. This complaint about lack of circulation by the way is almost a century old, and appears in "buy black" campaigns being run in the 1920s- during the segregation era.The above bold that you posted is not a stat. It's a complaint so it's not relevant to verifying a somewhat recent stat. The article posted says that money does not circulate much "within" the black community.The above is also not a stat. It's a claim. A fake stat that has been making the rounds in media was used to back that claim. If you read the article you posted carefully you'll see that it's not so great a source of data. Aside from the fake stat there are other data/info errors in the article. Look at this info bit from the article: Fashion - Blacks spent more on women and girls fashions than non-black consumers combined, and almost twice as much on footwear. Expenditure on men's gear was about the same compared to non-blacks combined. Such stats above make no sense. Likely they worded it incorrectly (probably unintentionally) which changes meaning of the original stat.
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Post by africurious on Dec 28, 2018 23:52:51 GMT -5
^In addition to the above, how the heck didn't the egyptians teach the hawaiians how to work metal but supposedly taught them hieroglyphs? Hawaiians were a stone age people. Metal working would've been helpful.
Also, how are we still on this site not questioning people when they say X group is descended from recent africans cuz they have "negroid" skulls? It's already been established in academia that skull measurements give false positives, are dependent on model of measurement one choses, and who is interpreting measurements. This was discussed on this site already. So all this "negro hawaiian" and "negro mayan" stuff sounds like more crap. Also, other people who aren't "negroes" have "negroid" skulls, just like they are "negroes" who have "caucasoid" crania-facial features but yet we don't say these africans got those "caucasoid" features from "caucasoids" who migrated to africa.
And, egyptians landed on islands many thousands of miles away from their home and were able to take over to the pt where they imprinted their religion on the small population yet they didn't leave any offspring behind? How can we not detect any egyptian or other african dna in hawaiians when they apparently were in upper echelons of society giving them prime access to women? And if they were egyptian women who arrived then they didn't procreate either?
Where is the language substrate of AE or egyptian greek in the hawaiian lang? Something real, aside from that made up crap about "La" is "Ra".
Why don't hawaiians mention egyptians' arrival in their origin stories? They mention coming from other polynesian islands so how the heck don't they remember egyptians who would've arrived later and changed their world supposedly?
SMH.
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Post by africurious on Dec 28, 2018 23:12:32 GMT -5
I'm sorry AC. Proboards sucks at maintaining unfinished replies. My original reply went to the bitbucket. Below is the best I could remember for some parts of it. Tx Regarding this “ Take it from me or contradict it from a book, just don't twist it into a strawman or nonsequitur.”... That's something I hope every contributor expects. Respect breed respect. And that's the road to independent analysis of Africana with authenticated agency. More power to you. Thx. And I think you summed us all up. I been riddled by strawmans, nonsequiturs, etc., lately. Not specifically pointing. Making it clearly known to all I don't tolerate it won't respond to it. <<ALERT>> You're telling me I been had by www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/business/black-buying-power-increases-but-circulation-of-dollar-within-community/article_a4348d65-c5b3-5cd3-b9c1-966765a96fd8.html ? Seemed legit to me? I bought it. Should I get a refund? What you got on 'em? <<ALARUM>> Yeah, let's share and compare then hip otherbodies otherwhere. Cool beans, Takruri. Glad we could clear up things up. Yea you should def get a refund, ha. Aside from that bogus stat, several other stats in that article look as if they're worded incorrectly which would give false impression of what the original stat must've meant. Other stats seem legit tho. I'd look elsewhere for info on this topic.
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Post by africurious on Dec 27, 2018 12:23:21 GMT -5
Take it from me or contradict it from a book, just don't twist it into a strawman or nonsequitur. Origins of the 'stranglehold?'Jews have redistributed items from W Afr to 'the West' for at least 1000 years. Terminals can't just, by will, connect across the Atlantic. That distribution is out terminal control under international regulation (and connivance). I quit vending decades ago but when I go about I see Moroccans also on the wholesale end now too. On a very small scale some items come direct as 'baggage', evading the system. What’s even more interesting is that a white Jew also has cornered the market on importing African fabrics used to make African clothes in NY area. This probably isn’t coincidental. I know someone who had this guy as a client but they didn’t know how he came to corner the market. I’d love to learn the details of how it played out someday. Tx for your suggestions on the origins. I was looking for something more specific about the individuals in question tho. Jews redistributing W Af goods to the “west” for 1,000 yrs doesn’t sound outlandish to me so I could buy it. Regarding this “ Take it from me or contradict it from a book, just don't twist it into a strawman or nonsequitur.”... I question anything that sounds off to me and have been doing so since a kid. I’ve questioned things taught by my profs with PHDs in their respective fields from fancy schools so I don’t see why I wouldn’t question you. I have no prob saying you’re extremely knowledgeable and I’ve learned a lot from your posts. But, you ain’t infallible and have biases like us all. I didn’t “twist” anything you said into “a strawman or nonsequitur” and that claim is old hat at this pt. Everything I posted was either based on what you or Asante said. And you can’t show anything in my posts to prove me the liar. If I really wanted to roast you to stroke my ego all I had to do was say that you posted that fake stat about money circulation purposely to fool us and call you a liar. Instead, based on your history, I took it for just a case of being misled which happens to anyone from time to time. If you haven’t noticed, I tend to be direct. I also don’t care to be king of the hill on this or any other forum.
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Post by africurious on Dec 25, 2018 12:27:40 GMT -5
"Interesting enough the first thing I tried was a shoe import/export deal with producers in Nigeria back in '74." Do tell, give us the gory details, how did the Jews manage to undercut you? What did you learn from this venture and how did you apply the lesson learned? What’s even more interesting is that a white Jew also has cornered the market on importing African fabrics used to make African clothes in NY area. This probably isn’t coincidental. I know someone who had this guy as a client but they didn’t know how he came to corner the market. I’d love to learn the details of how it played out someday.
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Post by africurious on Dec 24, 2018 14:18:36 GMT -5
You lie and distort I have nothing to say to you. What goddamned fool thinks Jim Crow Arpartheid Neo colonialism was good times. You ain’t gotta talk to me, cool. But since you besmirched my name I’ll respond to clear my name with other forum members. To answer Takruri’s question above about what fool, it was comments like the below from Asante that I had in mind with my response on Jim Crow: Also Zarahan viewed said quoted comments similarly to me so I guess he was distorting and lying too. Smh.
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Post by africurious on Dec 24, 2018 13:00:29 GMT -5
I am finished with vapid argument with simplistic minded posters who only reflect white sociology. Whoever wants to win an argument consider yourself the winner. Many will benefit from what I posted for thinkers. A business I had catering to nation within a nation Afrikans suceeded. A business I had open to all and located in a black area failed. Negroes patronized the grocery store only after I sold it to East Asians. Well, good your biz did well. What I wrote wasn't meant to address your situation specifically but just a general response to the argument that blacks dont buy black. "White sociology"? You mean data and reasoning? When it comes to pop genetics and other historical inquiry, you always bring data and findings from professional scholars in the relevant disciplines. Why don't you do so when it comes to econ? Your response is like that of the posters who post their opinion and when shown academic work and reasoned thought say oh that's white man facts/knowledge. You don't have to agree of course but your response was surprisingly dismissive with little thought.
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Post by africurious on Dec 24, 2018 12:44:10 GMT -5
If black ppl don't buy from black businesses then who are the patrons that go to the roughly 2 million black businesses in the US (https://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/business_ownership/cb11-24.html)? It's whites, asians and latinos who primarily go to these places? source: www.nap.edu/read/9719/chapter/10That link also has some good data on progression of black businesses. Black business has changed over many decades but haven't seen data that show it's any worse off now than in the days of segregation. I've seen some black biz owners complain before about blacks not buying their stuff. I can't tell if they're biz isn't being run optimally to attract buyers or not. But I do know that most businesses fail in a few yrs regardless of the owners race cuz running a biz is very tough. I also know that many other black biz thrive and have many black patrons. I also know that if I or just about any other black or purple person get substandard service/product I'll unlikely come back. My aunt used to complain that people who came to her fast casual restaurant didn't want to spend money on her cakes which she made with real butter and various organic ingredients. In her mind her cakes were delicious and healthier than cheap ish. Problem is she didn't realize that her cakes were around the prices that you'd find at a cake specialist and she was trying to sell them at a place ppl go for quick moderately priced food. Business is tough. If someone isn't making it then they should ask themselves some hard questions about why (other than saying its cuz black ppl dont wanna buy your stuff cuz you're black).
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Post by africurious on Dec 24, 2018 12:11:24 GMT -5
Hey what can I say? If you didn't live through it don't interview those who did believe what you will. Problem is there many blacks who lived it and said it was worse. Also what you’re describing is not a rare phenomenon. It’s happened to many ppls i.e. they in hindsight say a past time was better than now cuz they still have probs now. There’re black s afs saying it was better under apartheid, it’s become a trend esp among young DRC Congolese to say mobutu was great for their country, some Haitians say how great papa and baby doc were, some Russians glorify the soviet past over now. The current problem is given most emphasis regardless of actual hardship. And a rosy Jim Crow era? Build a strawman knock him down. I bet you guys think Beatrice was proper Black business. Yeah, for integrationists. To the DO FOR SELF nation within a nation blacks it was the biggest blunder ever. As soon as whites were forced to accept their $$$ negroes turned away from Black businesses. If whites always wanted Black $$$ why were there Black businesses founded? Just about every time I’ve been to a black-owned biz in a black neighborhood it’s been overwhelmingly black patrons there. So black ppl still buy from black ppl. And today there’re black biz that can get $ from all ppl instead of being locked in a bantustan purposely made poor. White biz have always got $ from blacks so integration didn’t start anything new. Integrationist will always dump on internal nationalism of any kind. They place 'i got mine you got yours to get' over internal nation economics. That's why what would be like the 11th richest nation has a high rate of personal poverty and makes no jobs for itself. Every people make jobs for their own, except... ... finacially support Arab immigrants over their own people. Apples and oranges. You can’t compare income of ethno-group in a large nation to incomes in other nations in the way you did. Yes black ams have something like the 11th highest gdp if one could separate it but the problem is AAs have to pay rich country prices when they rent, buy prop, pay salaries, transport, etc. Ex: $25k ain’t much in the US but can go much further in places such as Mexico, Brazil, India, Ukraine, Nigeria. Some of those places $25k would make you rich. So what seems like riches actually isn’t by American standards. Also, if on these forums we seek to understand the past by using proven academic methods of the relevant subjects then why don’t we do that when it comes to economics? What you describe has no basis in Econ at all. Circulating money among poor ppl doesn’t make them any richer. Productivity, capital, comparative advantage are some of the things economists focus on when explaining growth. Many black biz closed during integration cuz they weren’t strong enough to compete with more powerful white ones (and also businesses had been consolidating generally as they grew larger anyway). Black biz in segregation were serving a somewhat captive population and didn’t have access to capital as white biz did. Many were doomed to fail once the restrictions were gone. The thing is now any black biz that reaches any appreciable scale has better tools to compete not just in America but internationally if it gets to that point. That circulation stat is bogus and never originated from UGA Selig Center. Not saying you were being dishonest. You were just misled. See here (http://truthbetold.news/2015/12/does-a-dollar-spent-in-the-black-community-really-stay-there-for-only-six-hours/) for someone who investigated it thoroughly. Selected quotes from the article:
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