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Post by anansi on Feb 13, 2012 18:26:08 GMT -5
Defunding of Acorn took away a major organizational institution from Urban areas read Black and Hispanic folks, Acorn has registered over 1.3 million voters. Over 60% are people of color this was the kind of grass roots community Obama came up from in Chicago so he knew very well what the stakes were.
The thing about Van Jones and urban development using Green tech as a spring board was meant to not only beautify but create employment in urban areas read Black and Hispanic folks,letting it get derailed really got under my skin,these are the kind of things that affected Black folks.
The signing of NDAA will affect black folks dis-proportionally as it is so fluid it can mean anyone who bad mouth the action of the government can be considered a suspect and disappear,lets take for example Tennessee,those rabid racist who want to banned slavery from text books,if they came to power by the hook or the crook and black folks through their time honored tradition of civil disobedience.do you think they would think twice from making them disappear into some military tribunal without representation for unlimited time,yes this most definitely will affect black folks.
And yes I know he's been targeted by racist and corporate politicians but those are not the people who supported him in the first place,and no matter what he does even ideas they themselves had purposed they would be against him.
I am ex Navy I served before and during the era of DADT, DADT was viewed as an improvement over what used to happen before,someone said you are gay can't prove you are not!! sign this you are out!,or if you wanted to get out of military duties gay or not say to your Capt. you are gay and bye bye to the military and the next war ur excused, so without interim don't ask don't tell gays would not be able to serve openly in the military today.
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jari
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Post by jari on Feb 13, 2012 20:02:43 GMT -5
Jari, Clinton is used as a comparison because he never received this kind of criticism from white liberals. Once again Clinton was President during a time most people considered to be prosperous. You can compare the lack of complaints against Clinton without factoring in many different things, Such as Obama continuing the policies of Bush. You realize the only reason Obama got out of Iraq was because the Iraqi people wanted, If it was up to Obama he would have stayed there longer. Really??? Don't be naieve man, eroding civil liberties effects all Americans. This does effect us. The comparison makes no sense, in one breath she rails against "White Liberals", Then against Progressives, Then againt people who complain about black unemployment(Its blacks such as Tavis Smiley etc complaining about that. My argument seems inconsistant because her's is. She wants to deflect any complaint against the president by crying racism and by using Clinton as a strawman. Obama did not get majority of a white(Male) vote he won by the Latino/Women/Gay/Black/Young voter turnout as well as Independants and Mod. Republicans, Obama's decline among white male voters happened around the rise of the Tea Party, these people are not Liberals, most are Conservative or Independant. Are white Libs. complaining sure, but is it some grand racist conspiracy, No. I think that's crap, for one Black/Latino people should be upset that Obama is continuing the same dictator style gov. like Bush. Eroding our civil liberties is more important than anything, because I will bet the first people to be locked up under NDAA will be Arabs, Black Muslims, or Latino Immigrants. [/quote]
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jari
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Post by jari on Feb 13, 2012 20:09:37 GMT -5
Yeah, This is what Im saying. The article seems to use white Liberals as a scape goat really. I mean if she wanted to complain about racist attacks by whites on the President why not go after the conservatives who have been at it from his inaguration. Also you are right about the fact that most Libs. will vote for Obama, No Liberal in his right mind would vote for Mitt Romney, Newt or Santorum, if they do they were probably not Libs. to being with. Jari, I think you're wondering the same thing I am. It's not clear from the excerpt of the article if she's referring to "white liberals" only or just to any white who supported Obama in the election (which would be incorrect because not all whites who voted for Obama were liberal as many were centrists). However, there has indeed been a severe drop in support for Obama and this is from liberals and centrists (conservatives didn't vote for Obama). But the polls that show a drop in support for Obama is an indication of a drop in enthusiasm, not whether or not ppl will vote for Obama. Liberals, if they don't abstain, will still vote for Obama as the other choice revolts them. Centrists who voted for Obama previously, though, may jump ship to the republican candidate. I don't like when ppl just automatically shout racism when there isn't much of any indication that that is involved and many other obvious explanations are there. Obama couldn't in a few yrs have launched from a jr senator to defeating a popular democratic candidate for the nomination if racism were prevalent among "white liberals".
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Post by zarahan on Feb 13, 2012 23:45:00 GMT -5
No Liberal in his right mind would vote for Mitt Romney, Newt or Santorum,
DOn;t really like ROmney myself but how would the election of Mitt Romney be bad for black folk? I mean, will Mormonism be imposed as a state religion? WIll the KKK take over state governments? CIv Rights Act of 64 re-appealed? I head a lot of hysteria, that if Obama isn't elected, all sorts of awful gloom and doom will descend on black folk. When asked for specifics, people tend to change the subject, unable to give a detailed account of this pending apocalypse.
If as some black critics hold, Obama is more in tune with the well-heeled "bankstas" and has done little on black employment, poverty, etc and other critical issues, why should there be a knee-jerk demand for black folk to re-elect him?
Tavis SMiley's touted report says among other things: "The Federal government’s large yearly deficits are creating pressures for spending control that are likely to result in cutbacks of the safety net." OK, so how will the massive deficits run up by Obama in the last 4 years help black folk, if they accelerate the crumbling of the safety net? That's just one example, on which why Tavis and Cornel keep criticizing Obama. Then there are the big bankstas and oligarchs to use Cornel West's phrasing, who have done well under Obama. Again, if this claim is true, why should black fold automatically elect Obama?
No saying any of these claims are true, but they have made a strong public critique of Obama. What's your take?
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Post by sundiata on Feb 14, 2012 15:24:35 GMT -5
^Good question to raise but that's assuming the criticisms against Obama are true. How big is the burden of rasing Black unemployment in a post-Bush era recession? Blacks have always been hit hardest during recessions. Is Obama the cause of the recession and has unemployment been stagnant since his election? Indeed, you've cited Kaltznelson a few times on this forum with the understanding that Roosevelt has done the most in terms of bringing Americans out of an economic rut. But did this help Blacks or did it only widen the disparities that existed? If you've indeed digested the argument from that book, supposedly affirmative action is the only government action that will help the situation since that's the only way [that government can] reduce the disparities. If all Americans rise at the same pace, Blacks will still be at the bottom. Obama is stuck in between a rock and a hard place because he has to be the president of the United States.
As far as Mitt, I'd like to hear an argument about why he's better for Blacks. Obama is the incumbant and has alreqady expressed his views on education, healthcare, and jobs with respect to the under and working class. Mitt has the burden of prove and those who vote for him should justify their actions intellectually. Not voting at all is another issue, but WHY vote for Mitt (that's a proactive decision)? The question shouldn't be framed in that way but in terms of WHY Mitt IS better, not that he might be so let's just go out on a limb and risk it. What has he done for the Blacks of Massachusetts, for example?
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Post by sundiata on Feb 14, 2012 15:35:05 GMT -5
What percentage of Whites who supported Obama were conservative to begin with, is my question. Tea party is not at issue, the dip in support is. That's a tenuous connection at most.
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Post by anansi on Feb 15, 2012 2:28:53 GMT -5
Poll: Obama's Approval Up, Beats All Comers if Election Were Today By Jackie Koszczuk | National Journal – 9 hrs ago POLITICS SLIDESHOWS Santorum surges in polls 26 photos - Mon, Feb 13, 2012 'Dogs Against Romney' demonstration 6 photos - 12 hrs ago NJ Senate passes gay marriage bill 6 photos - Mon, Feb 13, 2012 See latest photos » MORE FROM Poll: Americans Split on Concern For Very Poor Heavy Lift for Obama in North Carolina Budget Means 'More of Same' in 2012 Political Fight Insiders: Pentagon Should Not Offer Bailouts to Keep Defense Companies Afloat An uptick in public optimism about the economy has boosted President Obama’s approval rating to 50 percent, the highest it’s been since he approved the raid that killed terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden, according to a CBS News/New York Times poll released on Tuesday evening. Forty-three percent of Americans still disapprove of the job Obama is doing, which is not ideal for a president seeking a second term. But he now leads each of the Republican presidential candidates in theoretical head-to-head matchups, the poll found. More than a third of Americans -- 34 percent -- think the economy is improving, up from 28 percent last month, although three-quarters still rate the economy as poor. And while more than four in 10 people see it stuck in place, the percentage who say it's improving is the highest it has been in nearly two years. Public opinion has a long way to go to achieve real satisfaction with economic conditions, the poll shows. Fifty-nine percent of Americans believe the country is on the wrong track. But the percentage that says it is on the right track rose to 35 percent, up from 29 percent a month ago and the highest in a year. Half of Americans still disapprove of the president’s handling of the economy, but those numbers are also on the upswing. Forty-four percent approve of his handling of the economy now, up from 40 percent a month ago. For the first time in the poll, Obama has a clear advantage over the four remaining Republican candidates for his job. When prospective voters were asked who they would vote for if the presidential election were held today, Obama edged out former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, 48-42 percent; former Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, 49-41 percent; Rep. Ron Paul of Texas, 50-39 percent; and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, 54-36 percent. The poll of 1,197 adults nationwide was conducted by telephone Feb. 8-13; 997 interviews were conducted with registered voters. The survey's margin of error is plus-or-minus 3 percentage points.
Like was said earlier the rise and fall in support depends largely on the economy or the perception of it.
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jari
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Post by jari on Feb 15, 2012 22:12:02 GMT -5
Well, I don't think Obama got much hard core conservative support, maybe some but not much, but if I recall he got a lot of Independents. I agree with you on the dip in support but I don't thing the woman who vistied your school should blame "White Liberals", Im sure most Liberals are not gonna support a rebublican over Obama nor a 3rd party. If I recall I posted something like this a while back on E.S about Obama losing the white male vote...Ill see if I can find it. What percentage of Whites who supported Obama were conservative to begin with, is my question. Tea party is not at issue, the dip in support is. That's a tenuous connection at most.
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jari
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Post by jari on Feb 15, 2012 22:58:26 GMT -5
Here Sundjaita read this, the white vote who disagree with Obama are not Liberals at all, probably independants and Conservatives...No Liberal will vote for a Republican esp. Tea Party Republicans. www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/in-2012-obama-may-need-a-new-coalition-20110107Here... [/b] a head-turning 49 percent of whites said they strongly disapproved. (Those whites voted Republican last fall by a ratio of 18-to-1.)[/quote] -49 of the 65% of Whites who disapprove of Obama supported Republicans in the Fall election 18:1(this was the General Election I believe). More .... All of this proves that Obama and the Dems. still carry support with majority of White Liberals(College Educated) as opposed to working class whites. Read the article. The whole argument directed at white Libs IMO is misdirected, Obama barely got the white male vote in the first place. The Tea Party shows and proves the white he lost support with are not Liberals.
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Post by africurious on Feb 16, 2012 11:30:07 GMT -5
Good article Jari. It's clear from the article that the dip in general white support for the democrats is either unrelated or at best marginally related to Obama as that low level of support is not different from the fluctuations that have historically happened. I take a bit of an issue with what you wrote here though: The tea party ppl and their ilk never supported Obama in the 1st place as they are extreme conservatives so there's no way he lost support among them because he never had it. He has lost support among white liberals. And this isn't limited to white liberals as it's the same with all liberals and even among centrists. The whole occupy movement was by liberals, especially ultra liberals (and as was apparent from video most of them were white). They had serious issues with the gov't and especially with how the Obama administration bailed out the banks with no punishment. White liberals, like all other liberals, have been voicing great disappointment about how Obama has no back bone b/c he didn't go far enough with the health care bill and hasn't dismantled guantanamo and is continuing many of the Bush "counterrorism" policies they didn't like. So to say white liberal support for Obama hasn't dipped is off base. This cnn poll from november shows that support has fallen among white liberals specifically politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/23/cnn-poll-blue-collar-democrats-support-for-obama-drops/Note, this poll asked for views on Obama specifically and only asked registered Dems or independents who usually side with the Dems. Here too, the dip was mainly by non-college grad whites but these people are either liberals or liberal leaning centrists. These working class white liberals tended to support Hillary instead of Obama in the primaries.
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jari
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Post by jari on Feb 16, 2012 13:25:35 GMT -5
Yeah, you are right, White Liberals are upset with Obama and feel he has no backbone, and Im thinking this is where Sundjaita is coming from. I think that they have a legitimate reason to be upset and disappointed because like I said Obama had no real excuse with Health Care, the Dems. controlled both the House, Senate and the White House they simply wanted to be Bipartisan and cater to Republicans. Good article Jari. It's clear from the article that the dip in general white support for the democrats is either unrelated or at best marginally related to Obama as that low level of support is not different from the fluctuations that have historically happened. I take a bit of an issue with what you wrote here though: The tea party ppl and their ilk never supported Obama in the 1st place as they are extreme conservatives so there's no way he lost support among them because he never had it. He has lost support among white liberals. And this isn't limited to white liberals as it's the same with all liberals and even among centrists. The whole occupy movement was by liberals, especially ultra liberals (and as was apparent from video most of them were white). They had serious issues with the gov't and especially with how the Obama administration bailed out the banks with no punishment. White liberals, like all other liberals, have been voicing great disappointment about how Obama has no back bone b/c he didn't go far enough with the health care bill and hasn't dismantled guantanamo and is continuing many of the Bush "counterrorism" policies they didn't like. So to say white liberal support for Obama hasn't dipped is off base. This cnn poll from november shows that support has fallen among white liberals specifically politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/23/cnn-poll-blue-collar-democrats-support-for-obama-drops/Note, this poll asked for views on Obama specifically and only asked registered Dems or independents who usually side with the Dems. Here too, the dip was mainly by non-college grad whites but these people are either liberals or liberal leaning centrists. These working class white liberals tended to support Hillary instead of Obama in the primaries.
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Post by azrur on Dec 15, 2013 21:02:07 GMT -5
i would not support obama he is war criminal his pushes for war with syria and the drone strikes against innocent people are not good that is bad
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