jari
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Post by jari on Feb 14, 2012 13:38:35 GMT -5
When it comes to the Western Sudan and Mahgreb Relationship, Western Sudan was never a Docile player. As a matter of fact most of the time she was a dominant player leading the role in Trade relations and establishing some of the most detailed Trade routes in history. Old Ghana/Walatta Let me start with Tilchtt because its foundation goes back to the B.C era. More about Oulata here www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=003635 Next Old Ghana Old Ghana was very vital and probably the first entity to have considerable control on the Sahran Trade that was vital to both the Mahgreb and Sudan in terms of prosperity and power. This Empire's power was noted even by Andaluci and other non African Geographers and Merchants Al, Bakri, Al-Masudi and Ibn Hakwal to name a few, Moving on lets examine how the Megreb and Sudan relationship was during Old Ghana's time.. books.google.com/books?id=iFn5bnx2OBcC&pg=PA314&dq=recovering+history+reconstructing+race&hl= Not Only was Ghana Sophisticated, Powerful, and advance but the Empire was dominant in terms of the Mahgreb/Sudan and the Saharah. The Megrebi Berbers set up shop in Awdaghust and intermarried with Sonnike and other Sudani women they also assited the Ghana in their Wars etc. So the relationship between Ghana and the Mahgreb was Mutual and both depended on each other. The fact that despite the role of Islam and the fact that the king converted to Islam during the latter days of Ghana's history, her people and obviously Nobility resisted converting to Islam en masse. This speaks volumes to the Role Ghana played. You would be hard pressed to find any other Pagan Empire praised so highly by Muslims writers during this time.
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jari
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Post by jari on Feb 14, 2012 13:39:45 GMT -5
This idea plays into the myth that the North or Africa was connected to Eurasia or Arabia etc. was superior and the South was docile and primitive and eventually was invaded and subjugated by the North. However this is simply not true as You and Al-takruir have proved that is the Almoravid invasion of Ghana is false and mythical... www.jstor.org/pss/3171941 We do however know that the Almoravids originated around Senegal, and they incorporated Sudanis into their Armies. They also conquered Al-Andalucia as well as the Mahgreb.. So one can easily see the Almoravid conquest as a Sudani/Saharah/Berber unification and Invasion of Andalucia not Sudan. For my evidence I provide.. 1) The Almoravids wrote in the Mahgrebi Script on their Architecture rather than Andaluci. We know the Almoravids were familiar with andaluci script because the Almoravid Manuscripts found in Mauritania have some written in Andaluci. 2) The Almoravid Architecture to most Muslim Historians and Architects was "Plain" with little Decoration. This was not the case with Al Andalucia and her Architects but WAS the Case in the Mahgreb and Sudan(Ghana) where the Outer Facade are almost bare in decoration but the interior is heavily decorated. This is seen in the Architecture of the Sonnike Builders at Oulata.. Oulata Exterior willdoherty.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/DSCN1135.JPG willdoherty.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/DSCN1165.JPG Interior www.parallelozero.com/upload/reportage/rep.cod.218/0174_BZ_022.JPG www.parallelozero.com/upload/reportage/rep.cod.218/0174_BZ_021.JPG Now alot of the Almoravid architectue was destroyed by the Almohads but we can compare to Almoravid Architecture to Berber and Sudani Style with The Almoravid Koubba in Merrakesh.. Now notice the Exterior is plain..however the interior is where the decoration is..
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jari
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Post by jari on Feb 15, 2012 21:39:16 GMT -5
Cont. The Almoravid Koubba is also influenced by Andalucian Architecture styles, yet it is not as elaborate. The Almoravid approach In my opinion shows a fusion of Mahgrebi and Sudani ideas fused with Andalucian styles and ideas. To get a better understanding Ill present the kasbah and Ksour, or fortefied towns of Morocco and Mali etc. The kasbah and Ksar are Adobe style architecture of the Berbers or Morocco. This Style is one of the best examples of Berber Architecture style.. Some Examples.. Another Berber architecture style the Tighremt High Atlas region Morocco Draa Valley Notice the Plain exterior and compare it to the Almoravid Koubba, also notice the subtle influence of Sonnoki and other Sudani style of Oulata etc. More about these beautiful Amazigh styles here.. www.motortravel.com/atlas-kasbah-morocco.php Good Website.. www.assarag.net/assarag_swhighatlas.html#portfolio/Morocco-High-Atlas-Timkatti-Berber-village-c-Bart-Deseyn.jpg
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jari
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Post by jari on Feb 15, 2012 21:40:05 GMT -5
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Post by jari on Feb 15, 2012 21:41:33 GMT -5
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Post by jari on Feb 15, 2012 21:43:37 GMT -5
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Post by jari on Feb 15, 2012 21:45:29 GMT -5
This is True, we need to understand that the Saharah Desert which was not always dry was the incubator of many cultures in Africa. For example the Nile Valley, Nabta Playa etc. What some people don't understand is that the people from the Saharah who created Egypt, Also moved west and created places like Dar Tilctt, Oulata etc. Dar Tilctt represents the oldest settlement in West Africa.. The Settlement of Oulata dates to 4000yBP. Notice that this is the same time that folks from Nabta Playa were settling in the Nile Valley.. Some New Pics of Walata Notice the Similarities between these and those found in the Nile Vally like Nubian and Egyptian Houses... Some of the Designs..(Notice the Similarities between these and Designs from the Nile Valley like Egypt and Nubia..)
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Post by jari on Feb 15, 2012 21:46:14 GMT -5
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Post by jari on Feb 15, 2012 21:46:58 GMT -5
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Post by jari on Feb 15, 2012 21:47:47 GMT -5
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Post by jari on Feb 15, 2012 21:49:01 GMT -5
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Post by jari on Feb 15, 2012 21:50:06 GMT -5
^^^^ Nice Find Doug, Some people like to dismiss "Sudano-Sahelian" style Architecture off as simply "Mud" Architecture due to the fact that it a pure Black African style and is so different in presentation than many Stone Architecture. The fact is this style is the foundation of many architecture types in North and West Africa, including Berber and Sudani architects. It makes perfect sense that this style of Architecture would find its way to Al Andalus as the Berber Almoravid and Almohads controlled Andalus and North West Africa for hundreds of years. Some Almohad architecture not always discussed... The Walls of Merrakesh Tapial Style Moroccan with next to the Traditional Frame used to make Rammed Earth..Possible a descendant of the Almoravid and Almohad builders.. More Ksur styles from Southern Morocco Ouarzarzate
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jari
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Post by jari on Feb 15, 2012 21:51:25 GMT -5
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Post by jari on Feb 15, 2012 21:55:17 GMT -5
[originally posted by Doug M]Real-life "castles in the sand" made by an ancient culture have been revealed in the Sahara, archaeologists say. New satellite photographs show more than a hundred fortress settlements from a "lost" civilization in southwestern Libya. The communities, which date to between about A.D. 1 and 500, belonged to an advanced but mysterious people called the Garamantes, who ruled from roughly the second century B.C. to the seventh century A.D. Researchers uncovered the Garamantes' walled towns, villages, and farms after poring over modern satellite images—including high-resolution pictures used by the oil industry—as well as aerial photos taken during the 1950s and 1960s. (See pictures of Libya's remote Sahara.) Located about 620 miles (1,000 kilometers) south of Tripoli, the fortresses were confirmed based on Garamantes pottery samples collected during an early-2011 expedition. That field trip was cut short by the civil war that would end the 42-year regime of Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi. "We were astonished to see the level of preservation" of the ancient mud-brick compounds, said project leader David Mattingly, of the U.K.'s University of Leicester. "Although the walls of these sites have slumped a little bit, mainly due to wind erosion, they are still standing 3 to 4 meters [10 to 13 feet] high in places," he said. [/QUOTE] news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/11/111111-sahara-libya-lost-civilization-science-satellites/ Note these were found in South West Libya which again reinforces the relationship between the Sahel/Sahara and the Nile Valley and Sudan. This area was one of the primary corridors for movements back and forth between the Nile Valley and the Sahara over the span of many thousands of years partly driven by the expansion and contraction of the Sahara. And of course, in terms of military and cultural relationships, I would argue that the chariots of the Garamantes owe much to the ancient Egyptian and Sudanic empires which were contemporary.
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jari
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Post by jari on Feb 15, 2012 21:55:45 GMT -5
Nice post Doug on the Garamantes. Some photos from your link.. Notice the similarities between the Garamante Fortress and the Nile Valley buildings such as the Deffufa in Sudan and the Pyramids in Egypt. Some more info on the Garamantes.. Garamante Pottery More and.. Evidence pretty much confirms that the Berber Garamante Kingdom was a product of the Saharah and was part of a culture that included Jenne, Oulata and Nubia/Egypt and nothing to do with Classical European culture of the Mediteranian..
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