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Post by africurious on Mar 19, 2012 21:24:58 GMT -5
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Post by anansi on Mar 19, 2012 23:21:43 GMT -5
You gonna get mad at me for saying this again and knowing the answer but where is the A.U..and if the A.U doesn't work can we at-least get E.C.O W.A.S to move. |
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Post by africurious on Mar 20, 2012 9:17:36 GMT -5
^Damn right i'm gonna get mad at you, haha. I have no faith in the AU and no one else should either. The AU tries not to stick their noses in members affairs and not upset each other. They didn't do anything for mass murder and ethnic cleansing in sudan and you expect them to do something about slaves that prob don't number more than 10s of thousands?
I have a bit more faith in ecowas but Mauritania isn't part of it. Since ecowas is for true negroes and mauritania is a fake negro/mediterranean country where most people consider themselves arabs. ;D
It would be good if other african countries could put some pressure on the mauritanian gov to do something but I doubt it. Maybe there should be a campaign/viral video called Mauritania 2012, lol!!!
I'm glad mauritanians themselves are trying to do something but with the gov trying to suppress the movement they have a hard task.
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Post by africurious on Mar 20, 2012 9:53:33 GMT -5
^Correction: Mauritania was part of ecowas but left in 2000, supposedly because they didn't want to enter a monetary union with the other members (at least, that's the excuse their dictator gave). I suspect it may have something to do with the gov's not wanting to be too closely tied to the true negroes (as if there were ever a time when mauritania wasn't closely tied to the true negroes). They have a policy of arabisation so that's why i'm suspect about their reasons for leaving ecowas. Also, they could've stayed without entering the monetary union so that's b.s.
Interesting thing I found out--Mauritanian developed cozy relations with america and israel (guess they weren't getting enough from their efforts at cozying up to the arabs). And Mauritania allows israel to dump nuclear waste on their territory in the sahara.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Mar 20, 2012 12:59:12 GMT -5
Slavery has been legally abolished twice already in Mauritania.
I have seen Black Maur slaves accompanying White Maur
females on shopping excursions outside of Africa in the
West. Complexion of infants in strollers or young kids
walking along with them afirm the Black Maur men I
saw were not the father nor married to the White
Maur women. I entered friendly non-confrontational
conversation with the men who affirmed their Black
Maur Mauritanian identity.
The enslaved Black Maurs do not identify with non-Maur
blacks of Mauritania, Senegal, nor Mali. Black Maurs
always comprise the violent groups physically attacking
non-Maur blacks in Mauritania at the command of their
White Maur enslavers.
It's a very complex situation. I don't know how it fits in
with the Tekrur - al~Murabitun alliance of centuries ago
but the Yemeni conquest obviously altered things.
Hal Pulaaren were a military "caste" in modern Mauritania
until about two decades ago when they were revoked from
the military where some held the rank of general and were
maimed by White Maur soldiery and expelled from Mauritania.
The vast majority of Black Maurs are of old Mauritanian
original ancestry. Some Hal Pulaaren claimed as much
themselves but the events I spoke of ended that identity
which they had held onto for nine centuries. Probably
because they retained Pulaar speech the Hasaniyya
stopped recognizing them as Mauritanians even though
there are Hal Pulaaren legends of pre-Hassaniya Yemeni
descent dated to the 7th and 8th centuries.
I say let the Black Maurs handle their own plight without
intervention from African countries who have no true
knowledge about Mauritania and its societal norms.
I see it as a purely internal affair.
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Post by africurious on Mar 20, 2012 14:07:46 GMT -5
Purely internal affair? Yea, like apartheid in S Africa, ethnic cleansing in Sudan and Rwanda, slavery in the americas, etc, etc. All those were complex issues too. And maybe the african americans saw themselves more as americans than africans so that would explain why treated the liberians like ish when they went there. So I guess if some hypothetical power was around in the 1800s and wanted to intervene in america to free the slaves, that wouldn't have been advised as it was a complex internal affair.
The way I see it is a wrong is a wrong. This nonsense shouldn't be countenanced. I don't care if they don't view themselves as kin of other blacks. I do agree with you though that it is a complex issue. Action by locals is always favorable to outsiders and that's what I liked about this story.
Also, gotta say, many of the black maurs seem like the epitome of brainwashed uncle tom negroes. The doc itself mentions this with the reference to mental shackles.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Mar 20, 2012 14:34:16 GMT -5
You are viewing things from a black solidarity perspective alien to the region.
Of course I support my Kewri but I have little sympathy for the Black Maur.
Black Maurs are not brain washed uncle tom negroes. They do not group
with "negroes". They do not consider themselves as nor related to the
non-Maur Africans of whatever country and especially not the Kewri.
Not even the Kewri identify with western notions of negroes or like
the outsider imposed terminology black African. The Kewri and Maur
relationship antedates the West and its ideologies of Africans whether
Nilo-Saharan, Niger-Congo, "Berber', or Arab, by a good 500 years.
Do your people have issues to resolve? If so concentrate on them
and cease judging the Kewri and Maur issue by alien standards.
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Post by africurious on Mar 20, 2012 19:55:52 GMT -5
Huh?! I'm in no way judging this from a black solidarity perspective. I have feelings and often sympathize with ppl (regardless of race) and that's just how I am. Yea, i do care a bit more about the black maur's situation because i'm black. However, I'm fully aware that the western notion of lumping negroes or blacks into one mass is recent. That doesn't stop me from feeling bad for ppl being despicably ill-treated.
You must've misunderstood me from what i said with the brainwash uncle tom negro thing. I was referring to how the black maurs have internalized their inferiority, think it's natural to be an inferior servant, and developed dependency on those who impoverish and ill-treat them. That's high level brainwashing right there a la what the master's in the americas wanted to accomplish and is irrelevant to considering oneself "black african", maur or whatever. I like sticking my nose in other peoples' business, damn right, cuz I hate to see ppl treated like crap. Though sometimes I feel like some ppl deserve it and maybe that's how you feel given kewri-maur relations. That's understandable and I get it.
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Post by sundiata on Mar 20, 2012 22:15:36 GMT -5
^I agree that this is a humanitarian issue, no matter what the complexion of the inhabitants are. I'd definitely question the framing of the situation in terms of a 'Black" and "White" dichotomy. These terms for me are only useful in the Western context and this is becoming more and more apparent to me in observing how oversimplification of issues often do much to mislead people about what's actually going on. In that aspect, I agree with Al Takruri but I think it's dangerous to simply imply that "aliens" stay out of it and let this barbaric practice work itself out organically. Any empathetic person has the right to be indignant about such a human condition. In that sense, the fact that we as humans can empathize, means judging according to "alien standards" does not apply as we are not aliens but fellow human beings. If the lighter-skinned Maurs were the ones being oppressed it would make absolutely no difference and no I don't agree with africurious in that I'd care less about their plight, but I appreciate his honesty and acknowledge that he has a right to feel that way, as others should. Should the AU step in if the only goal is to end slavery? No one's given a good answer as to why not. Isolated cultural conservatism isn't a a good argument against basic humanitarianism...
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Post by anansi on Mar 21, 2012 22:57:24 GMT -5
Why the institution of slavery stung so painfully among most western blacks,was the horror and humiliation our most recent ancestors faced and the lingering affects that still plagues us. I dare say we tend to view it as a cancer benign in some quarters but ready to turn malignant engulfing the black man the world over,and while there are vestiges of that institution still present in other African nations although illegal I wonder if especially the urbanites in those nations wasn't offended by a woman and her slave,sometimes nothing less than a radical make over of society is need a shock to it's system if you will,while tradition is tradition and some is time honored and beautiful,some traditions be damned slavery is one of those and should not be tolerated on the continent given it's recent history.
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