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Post by franklin on Apr 15, 2010 17:03:36 GMT -5
Is it possible that diamond's are overpriced as a sort of way to continue exploiting people in Africa? This is probably well known but here is a random website on it "HOW TO OPERATE A DIAMOND CARTEL: EXPLORING DE BEERS’ DOMINANCE" prospectjournal.ucsd.edu/index.php/2009/05/key-determinants-of-diamond-cartel-success/But I have found that allot of people truly thought Leopold was philanthropic because for one thing he had meager resources (relative to what was needed) and had difficulty eaking out a profit. Notice that in the early days a 10% import tax would have made all the difference and made the enterprise profitable, I suppose later imports were not as important as 10,000,000 people were being killed. One important lesson here is that it takes immense resources to exploit people in Africa and still does today "Scramble for Africa" By Thomas Pakenham books.google.com/books?id=VeZIcTKTydAC&lpg=RA1-PA397&dq=&pg=RA1-PA397#v=onepage&q=&f=false One thing I have to ask is there any good reason cotton had to be grown in the Americas as opposed to other places like India. Perhaps later they started using Indians as standard disposable labor because Africans became too expensive, because people were once willing to go through great expense for African labor as opposed to any other. But are things deliberately being manipulated, like perhaps giving Leopold a large share of the rubber trade, in order to exploit people? Was there a specific reason rubber came from the "Congo Free State". Of course people all over the world are being exploited whither India Europe ect.
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Post by franklin on Apr 15, 2010 17:32:36 GMT -5
One thing about the "abolition movement" is it would raise the price people would be willing to pay for unfortunate Africans, so while it would not affect the price in Africa the people in Brazil would pay more, and the more that was paid the more severe and the more captives from African wars.
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Post by franklin on Apr 15, 2010 18:06:19 GMT -5
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Post by homeylu on Apr 16, 2010 8:01:10 GMT -5
Hi Franklin, I'm curious to know what was the use of diamonds by Africans in pre-colonial times. i agree that it is an 'exploited' resource, but I would like to know how was it marketed by pre-colonial Africans, if you have knowledge of this. Thanks.
I am aware of the use of gold in pre-colonial periods as a medium of exchange. I do recall that the Mali king, once devalued gold, when he journeyed to Mecca, giving it away like candy. This was well documented in historical sources.
But what about diamonds, what did the Africans use diamonds for? Jewelry? Anyone knows?
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Post by franklin on Apr 16, 2010 11:12:52 GMT -5
As far back as the ancient Ghana empire within the empire itself there was gold inflation and the king took possession of all the gold nuggets to curb this problem. The increase in gold production was not simply stimulated by demand since even before Mansa Musa gave it out like candy world gold prices were dropping so much gold was coming from Ghana. This suggests they were manipulating world prices kind of like what is going on today
I don't know anything about pre-colonial diamonds but it does seem that for that last century there was a drive to artificially raise the price. Obviously today Africans are on the losing end of this economic warfare
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Post by franklin on Apr 16, 2010 21:25:04 GMT -5
This is highly significant because it is entirely related to many of the wars in Africa going on today. I think there is enough evidence to think that Africans were seeking to keep gold prices low while Europeans wanted to push the gold price up. The Gold Coast was supplying a good part of the world supply of gold until a great reversal where it started buying gold, the act of actually selling gold to the Gold Coast would serve to raise world gold prices. For some evidence that Africans were trying to keep the price low it is found in the fact that many people in Mali hate Mansa Musa because he gave away so much gold. A good explanation as to why Mansa Musa gave away so much gold is that he wanted to lower the price. On the other hand in the 18th century Africans began hoarding gold as the price went up and many kingdoms outright banned the export of gold while Asante simply exported a less amount to Europeans. This is just one article about it but thinking about it more I think the Akan people on the gold Coast were trying to maximize gold exports and they could sell more if it was cheaper, this would connect the history back to ancient Ghana up to the reversal of trade on the Gold Coast. Also not mentioned here was that gold was illegally brought to Africa this perhaps could have amounted to allot that wasn't accounted for To sum it up, the ancient Ghana empire sought to lower the price of gold, and in the 18th century Europeans pushed it up. The article is attached and can be downloaded And the fact that the Africans were hoarding it when the price went up would give good reason to believe they were previously trying to keep it low“Gold, Assortments and the Trade Ounce: Fante Merchants and the Problem of Supply and Demand in the 1770s Author(s)”: George Metcalf Source: The Journal of African History, Vol. 28, No. 1 (1987), pp. 27-41 Electronic page 9 and 10 www.jstor.org/pss/181447Attachments:
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Post by franklin on Apr 16, 2010 21:52:13 GMT -5
This seems familiar to OPEC and how people in America complain about being reliant on other countries and oil prices (meaning the price that was being paid to the Gold Coast).
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Post by franklin on Apr 17, 2010 13:36:07 GMT -5
Somewhere else I had grossly mistaken on the ounce per trade an ounce of gold became worth two ounces of trade I acted as if it was the opposite ratio. However this situation meant that Europeans were obliged to bring more gold to the Gold Coast while everything else seems to have the opposite logic in which bringing more of a certain commodity lowered the price thus affecting African economies and forcing them into reliance. The interesting thing however is that Europeans sold silver to Asia but sold gold to Africa, and with illegal trading as I said it might be possible that a large amount was brought to Africa for one thing since the Europeans normally had to buy gold at 1.5 times the price in goods than what it went for in London that would give huge incentive to bring it to the Coast. On the other hand I think that the lowering of gold prices in the 19th century would be disadvantageous especially in the latter 19th century for example when gold was exploited from South Africa, world gold production increased all over the world and I've heard wages were very low to make profits While low gold prices might have been a bad thing in South Africa (at least from something I read) the reason that Africans in earlier times would want to keep gold prices low was that was a way to get more control over world gold trade, an example of this is Hausa hats which the Chinese are able to sell because they can make things cheaperDoes anyone think that the thing about the gold prices might be true? “Nigeria: Manufacturers frown at China’s dumping of cheap products” Friday 12 March 2010 / by Konye Obaji Ori en.afrik.com/article17137.html[/b] [/quote]
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Post by franklin on Apr 17, 2010 14:36:01 GMT -5
After having the price of gold high for all that time Africans were actually hurt when it fell like I said in South Africa wages were low this having allot to do with the price of gold being low. This despite the fact that Africans since the times of ancient Ghana were seeking to keep the price of gold low, this sort of thing is common when it comes to manipulation for example with the southern United States which became the Confederacy, they were fighting to remain dependent on the mother country of Brittan as it was this trade with Brittan in the first place that kept these states underdeveloped with cheap goods from Brittan. One thing I want to note is that the Chinese are probably interested in raising the purchasing power of Africans so that Africans can buy more Chinese merchandise, especially since recent times since Chinese were affected by the recession. As was shown the Chinese have also designs on producing things specifically for different markets in Africa. This relates back to how the Confederacy was dependent on England because the very cheap goods that were suppressing local development then become something that they need, although cheap imports are hurting places in Africa the raising of prices on these goods also do damage. Although this article is from two years ago: "China’s stronger currency hurting exports to Africa" February 13, 2008 by SwizStick www.3plwire.com/2008/02/13/chinas-stronger-currency-hurting-exports-to-africa/
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Post by franklin on Apr 19, 2010 16:02:05 GMT -5
homeylu, do you think it is possible that Africans were using the same kind of economic manipulation that Europeans are using today?
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Post by franklin on Apr 19, 2010 17:29:04 GMT -5
Steel can be included here when it comes to manipulation of prices of different items. Diamond's rubber, cotton, gold, cheap manufactured goods and steelIn the text it says: [Anthropologist Peter Schmidt wanted to see a working kiln, but he had a problem. Cheap European steel products reached Africa early in this century and put the Hayas out of business. When they could no longer compete, they'd quit making steel.]
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Post by anansi on Apr 19, 2010 20:25:57 GMT -5
Well yes diamonds are not rear as a matter of fact before and even in early colonial times in Southern Africa there was a place where you could just walk up and pick-up the rocks just laying around..it is kept artificially low.
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Post by franklin on Apr 19, 2010 20:34:31 GMT -5
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Post by franklin on Apr 19, 2010 21:15:12 GMT -5
Concerning gold prices during the Scramble for Africa Rita M. Byrnes, ed. South Africa: A Country Study. Washington: GPO for the Library of Congress, 1996. Gold and Diamonds countrystudies.us/south-africa/66.htm[Gold mining companies traditionally kept expenses to a minimum by paying low wages. Gold mines became known for their often exploitative labor policies, including the use of migrant workers on limited contracts, strict worker control in company compounds, and difficult working conditions. Labor costs were especially important in determining profits, because the price of gold was set at US$35 per ounce through the 1960s. After the price of gold was allowed to float in 1968, it gradually rose in response to market demand, and companies could afford to produce less and still earn even greater profits. They then began to expand operations into so-called low-grade-ore mines. The volume of South African gold production fell, and gold prices skyrocketed to an all-time high of US$613 per ounce in 1980.]
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Post by homeylu on Apr 20, 2010 9:19:28 GMT -5
homeylu, do you think it is possible that Africans were using the same kind of economic manipulation that Europeans are using today? Well as far as gold is concerned, it was so abundant in West Africa, that it didn't have much value to them; they were making dog collars of gold it was so worthless. It's worthiness came to fruition when the North African began using gold as a medium of exchange; to create coins. As coin production increased, the need for gold increased. So the middle-man (Ancient Ghana/ and the Tuareg) had to find something worthy of trade for the Africans in the south. So I would say they manipulated or rather marketed the use of salt for these purposes. Although sub-saharans had sufficient enough salt for survival, new uses of salt had to be introduced to make it worthy of a trade, such as it's use in preserving foods, and maintaining hydration in the desert. As the demand for gold increased with the arrival of the Arabs and the introduction of gold to the Europeans who found several other uses for it, the Ghana Kingdom became more aware of it's value, and kept a grasp on the trade, by 'hiding' it's sources from the Arabs and other North Africans. In other words, they could not allow it to be known how abundant this resource was in sub-Sahara Africa, otherwise it would jeopardize their trading position. I think Takruri pointed out to you on another thread, about how they would even go so far as to mythologize stories of cannibal Africans; anything to keep this knowledge of the source of gold sacred for several centuries. It was around the time when Leo Africanus explored further south, that the realization of how abundant gold was in this area, that assisted in the rise of the exploitation of this commodity to Europeans. Remember that slaves were a commodity as well, especially once the Americas became settled. When Leo Africanus first explored Mali, he recorded that the inhabitants there were so wealthy, that they all held several slaves in abundance, as well as livestock and gold. All of which would eventually be exploited by Europeans themselves, as they bypassed the so-called middle men and began to extort slaves, gold, and other major resources from Africa. These are some of the coins used in Ancient Ghana (in the British Museum of African Theft ) Other Gold artifacts of pre-colonial Africa (Just to get an idea of what they were doing with gold. Gold sandals, they were ballers Before Hip Hop, the Africans had the bling (16th century gold necklace)
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