How was West Africa peopled & where from?

[asante]

May 20, 2019 19:27:57 GMT -5 Tukuler al~Takruri said:

I disagree.

Rainforest folk, 'Shorties' -- Aka, Mbuti,
etc., -- are physically adapted specifically
for, well, a rainforest environment.

What evidence do you have that they are of short stature due to their long in habitation of the rain forest? Following that same logic if we are to go with the debunked Western model of Africa's peopling claiming that modern day "West Africans" have lived in place in the main for over 12,000 years then they too should have shorter stature than contemporary populations. They don't!

Not to mention ancDNA from Mt Hora way
southeast in Malawi from ~8200 years
ago indicates Senegal Niger UpperNile
genomes were in Central African where
Mbuti later came to live.

Do you have the full study? Are you sure that it has nothing to do with this migration that originated in the Upper Nile - Southeastern Africa which could have potentially placed the common element into the region? We know that Nilotic - Bantu mixed ancestry is rampant throughout the Great Lakes region into central Africa (i.e. the Tutsi at around 20%). 

 

BTW Twa are only the Great Lakes Shorties,
a small minority of the overall Shorty total
population. An ostracized persecuted minority
in Kivu, Burundi, Rwanda, and Tanzania.

Yes I'm aware that they are scattered throughout Central and Western Africa, as the master teachers have written their works. Again as stated the only groups that predate the modern Niger-Congo speakers in Western Africa are a few pockets of the Twa who have been there since time can tell. 

An African shame noteven equaled by Mauritania. 

Both regions' racist issues ignored by the AU. 

To add context, the discrimination against the Twa were not present prior to the incursion of the pale European less than a century and a half ago. The similar situation with the Hutus and Tutsi, the discrimination and persecution of the Hutus in Rwanda and the Congo (which many locals accuse the long time president of Rwanda of perpetuating) was non existent. 

[ycoamigofull]

See again you are wrong on the facts, which is what Beyoku and the rest keeps telling you. You just grind your ideological 'Afrocentric' axe regardless of the facts. While the Europeans in some ways worsened and stoked the ethnic divisions, there was discrimination against Hutus and conflict between the two groups in the precolonial era before Europeans arrived as many history books show, like "Although there is no doubt that the group identities of the Tutsi and Hutu were clearly shaped during the colonial period, it is clear from the evidence that Rwanda's social cleavage between there groups can be traced back to the precolonial era." (Preventing Violent Conflict in Africa-.edited by Y. Mine, F. Stewart, S. Fukuda-Parr, T. Mkandawire)

[ycoamigofull]

May 27, 2019 16:24:10 GMT -5 asante said:

May 20, 2019 19:27:57 GMT -5 Tukuler al~Takruri said:

I disagree.

Rainforest folk, 'Shorties' -- Aka, Mbuti,
etc., -- are physically adapted specifically
for, well, a rainforest environment.

What evidence do you have that they are of short stature due to their long in habitation of the rain forest? Following that same logic if we are to go with the debunked Western model of Africa's peopling claiming that modern day "West Africans" have lived in place in the main for over 12,000 years then they too should have shorter stature than contemporary populations. They don't!

Not to mention ancDNA from Mt Hora way
southeast in Malawi from ~8200 years
ago indicates Senegal Niger UpperNile
genomes were in Central African where
Mbuti later came to live.

Do you have the full study? Are you sure that it has nothing to do with this migration that originated in the Upper Nile - Southeastern Africa which could have potentially placed the common element into the region? We know that Nilotic - Bantu mixed ancestry is rampant throughout the Great Lakes region into central Africa (i.e. the Tutsi at around 20%). 

 

BTW Twa are only the Great Lakes Shorties,
a small minority of the overall Shorty total
population. An ostracized persecuted minority
in Kivu, Burundi, Rwanda, and Tanzania.

Yes I'm aware that they are scattered throughout Central and Western Africa, as the master teachers have written their works. Again as stated the only groups that predate the modern Niger-Congo speakers in Western Africa are a few pockets of the Twa who have been there since time can tell. 

Here again you are grinding on your 'Afrocentric' axe when the facts show you are wrong. The Twa were not the only people in West Africa before the Niger -Congo. There were the people of the aquatic fishing cultures. There were the 'Mechtoid' types further north and down south into Mali. There were pastoralists out of the Sahara. This is why you lack credibility and appear not to know what you are taking about when Beyoku and the rest challenge you. Unfortunately a lot of your response is  to complain about 'Uncle Toms' etc because they don't buy into your false  'Afrocentric' claims.

[asante]

Jun 28, 2019 0:13:54 GMT -5 ycoamigofull said:

See again you are wrong on the facts, which is what Beyoku and the rest keeps telling you.

I don't know who tf you are (do tell), but you can bite rocks...Those are smart guys in some instances, but ultimately to relate to "pale supremacist" in the forums that they lounge around in they tend to kiss pink azz in many of those discussions. Now some "spook who sat by the doors sh*t" is one thing. The common sense that they seem to lack however in their "intelligent" discussions centered on genetics, is that 90% of the bs that those bigots on those pseudo science sites spout (which they tend to accept at face value) is not backed by archaeology, linguistics, nor anthropology. It has been mentioned before that that crowd lost their arguments in every one of those categories, and are hovering around their perverted interpretative of genetics to attach themselves wholly to the landmasses that their albinoid predecessors overran in recent times. Those intelligent people tend to allow them to slide by as though they have not gotten their azzes kicked in those arenas, and thus allow them to advance their arguments without facing the scrutiny of that diverse and firm research. Then they allow them to create this narrative that by getting in that genetic dribble they are somehow "more intelligent" than those people (because it's what the pale mutants are trying to elevate) who point to the academic azz whippings that they were given in the latter part of the 20th century in those mentioned fields. It's stupid! I have had enough discussions with that crowd to thrash them in every discussion. They didn't have any legitimate arguments against me on Anthogenecia. Their entire pink army came after me on that forum, and one by one I picked every piece of their arguments apart bit by bit. They all stuttered and stammered over the complete lack of correlation that their perverted interpretations of genetics had with all of those relevant fields. When I stated and proved that "Afro-Asiatic" was a fake Western made language family (as some of the most respected African centered scholars have preached), they didn't know what to do with me. They are so used to those "intelligent Negroes" allowing them to set the narrative, and when I slammed their covert Hamitic hypothesis (the existence of an Afro-Asiatic language family) they froze up. 

Here's the discussion. Show me where I was tongue tied, and by who. 

You just grind your ideological 'Afrocentric' axe regardless of the facts.

I only deal with facts. You can take that crybaby sh*t somewhere else. 

While the Europeans in some ways worsened and stoked the ethnic divisions, there was discrimination against Hutus and conflict between the two groups in the precolonial era before Europeans arrived as many history books show

Ok, so to what extent did the ethnic conflicts lead to the genocidal situations that occurred post Colonial times? Was their a pre-colonial hotel Rwanda situation between the two, or was it simply like the lack of trust that occurred throughout the "Niger-Congo" family once they began to break up, and migrate and bump into/compete with each other following the exodus from Northeast Africa (as described in the "Destruction of Black Civilization"). Those types of conflicts were seen throughout the continent, but never have those types of genocidal situations occurred prior to the arrival of the recessive Devils. We know that many pale Devil historians have attempted to claim that their was a mass murder in Southern Africa centered around the expansion of the Zulu empire, but even among those Devils some will and have come out and stated that said events are completely false as implicated. The motive for telling such fallacies were also noted.  

[asante]

Jun 28, 2019 0:34:33 GMT -5 ycoamigofull said:

May 27, 2019 16:24:10 GMT -5 asante said:

What evidence do you have that they are of short stature due to their long in habitation of the rain forest? Following that same logic if we are to go with the debunked Western model of Africa's peopling claiming that modern day "West Africans" have lived in place in the main for over 12,000 years then they too should have shorter stature than contemporary populations. They don't!

Do you have the full study? Are you sure that it has nothing to do with this migration that originated in the Upper Nile - Southeastern Africa which could have potentially placed the common element into the region? We know that Nilotic - Bantu mixed ancestry is rampant throughout the Great Lakes region into central Africa (i.e. the Tutsi at around 20%). 

 

Yes I'm aware that they are scattered throughout Central and Western Africa, as the master teachers have written their works. Again as stated the only groups that predate the modern Niger-Congo speakers in Western Africa are a few pockets of the Twa who have been there since time can tell. 

Here again you are grinding on your 'Afrocentric' axe when the facts show you are wrong. The Twa were not the only people in West Africa before the Niger -Congo. There were the people of the aquatic fishing cultures. There were the 'Mechtoid' types further north and down south into Mali.

And to what extent are modern Niger-Congo speaking populations in that region related to the archaic Western Africans found prior to their expansion from Northeast Africa?  

There were pastoralists out of the Sahara.

Who were likely Nilotic Africans? 

This is why you lack credibility and appear not to know what you are taking about when Beyoku and the rest challenge you.

.... First and foremost my contextualization of the information in my thread is the some of the parroted information regarding this topic in the last half decade. My thread has started an entire movement in that time frame. I've mentioned some of the prominent people who have reached out to me, and or utilized my contextualization (which is what it's there for). As far as credibility is concerned....  among who....the pale recessive pseudo science crowd on those forums. It's an HONOR for me to get banned from sites, after kicking their azzes. Ellias (the pale supremacist forum biodiversity site owner) is terrified of what I say on those topics, to the point that he deletes my post, and subsequent responses or initiators from threads over there. He's so afraid of my common sense approach to his bullshit that my post have to go through a moderation filter, and to which he has not approved one of my since the Autumn of 2018. He has not "banned" me, but he simply filters and refuses to publish ANY of post. When I came on their with the study from Keita's et. al in 2018  (which Beyoku nor anybody "black" has really touted for the pivotal point in this subject that it is), and overturned that 2017 bunk study I set a new narrative, and Ellias or Arch Hades couldn't handle the way that I debate, so my post approvals ceased. 

Secondly....WHEN IN TF DID THOSE PEOPLE EVER CHALLENGE MY POSITION...,. There's the thread show me, where I was debunked! Or better yet tell whoever you think has a better argument to STEP UP TO BAT! It's been half a decade now! 

Jun 28, 2019 0:34:33 GMT -5 ycoamigofull said:

Unfortunately a lot of your response is  to complain about 'Uncle Toms' etc because they don't buy into your false  'Afrocentric' claims.

I call them out for what they are. Lame ass "Negroes" who have a superiority complex, because they're the token Negroes among pale supremacist. They are literally priding themselves on being cordial with mutants who argue against their humanity. "Uncle Tom" is not the phrase.. "Highly suspect" is a better description![/quote]

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

Do not associate my work or name with
beyoku or any of the responsible negro
crowd.

I have nothing to prove to white people
nor dissipate energy 'debating' them.

I don't waste my time on overtly white
owned/sponsored forums talking down
to my fellow black people but devote my
activity where I can reach black peoples
-- from old yahoogroups by late 90's and
early 2000's published Black Scholars like
Runoko Rashidi or Robin Walker & Fari
Supiya where Manu Ampim helped me
hone my Book of Gates the Gate of Teka Hra
4:5 Scene 30 translation and hypothesis (the
misnomered Table of Nations painting and
its text) to the original multi-disciplinary
non-Afrocentric EgyptSearch and today's
EgyptSearchReloaded.

Unfortunately ESR is too reactionary not
progressive, and it's current members are
incapable of discussing African genomics
therefore losing the modern information
race.


I do not explain away Africa's blackness
nor emphasize miscegenated Levantine
or outright white caucasian Turkey to Iran
peoples as the primary active agent genome
in Africa.

I do not agonize over African realities
nor merely regurgitate white scholarship
whose agenda is injecting themselves into
the root of everything 'recent' (ie post late
Pleistocene) African via SW Eurasian proxies
or directly by European Sardinians etc.

I think independently and don't muddle
my presentations with pseudo-scholarly
gobbledygook or dance around with non
sequitors when asked a question.

I do not waste time corresponding with
deranged megalomaniacs, whom I have
put on ignore and thankfully cannot see
what they post, but will gladly field any
query you may have about what I wrote
in the post where you quote me.
egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/post/20104

I'll entertain anyone who doesn't really believe
they're infallible. Just engage me and see.

If readers don't understand what I write
it's up to them to ask me to clarify or
supplement but there is no remedy for
one refusing to try and bring themself
up to speed. None of it fell out the
sky into my head. I had to study and
stumble and ask questions so I could
learn and develop my own takes on
Africana topics and related fields
informing/supporting independent
Afrikan minded academics.

Jun 28, 2019 0:34:33 GMT -5 ycoamigofull said:

May 27, 2019 16:24:10 GMT -5 asante said:

May 20, 2019 19:27:57 GMT -5 Tukuler al~Takruri said:

I disagree.

Rainforest folk, 'Shorties' -- Aka, Mbuti,
etc., -- are physically adapted specifically
for, well, a rainforest environment.

What evidence do you have that they are of short stature due to their long in habitation of the rain forest? Following that same logic if we are to go with the debunked Western model of Africa's peopling claiming that modern day "West Africans" have lived in place in the main for over 12,000 years then they too should have shorter stature than contemporary populations. They don't!

Not to mention ancDNA from Mt Hora way
southeast in Malawi from ~8200 Year's
ago indicates Senegal Niger UpperNile
genomes were in Central African where
Mbuti later came to live.

Do you have the full study? Are you sure that it has nothing to do with this migration that originated in the Upper Nile - Southeastern Africa which could have potentially placed the common element into the region? We know that Nilotic - Bantu mixed ancestry is rampant throughout the Great Lakes region into central Africa (i.e. the Tutsi at around 20%). 

 

BTW Twa are only the Great Lakes Shorties,
a small minority of the overall Shorty total
population. An ostracized persecuted minority
in Kivu, Burundi, Rwanda, and Tanzania.

Yes I'm aware that they are scattered throughout Central and Western Africa, as the master teachers have written their works. Again as stated the only groups that predate the modern Niger-Congo speakers in Western Africa are a few pockets of the Twa who have been there since time can tell. 

Here again you are grinding on your 'Afrocentric' axe when the facts show you are wrong. The Twa were not the only people in West Africa before the Niger -Congo. There were the people of the aquatic fishing cultures. There were the 'Mechtoid' types further north and down south into Mali. There were pastoralists out of the Sahara. This is why you lack credibility and appear not to know what you are taking about when Beyoku and the rest challenge you. Unfortunately a lot of your response is  to complain about 'Uncle Toms' etc because they don't buy into your false  'Afrocentric' claims.

[djoser-xyyman]

Stay up! Love your work Table of Nations/Book of Gates. It was an eye opener for me.

Jun 28, 2019 6:24:29 GMT -5 Tukuler al~Takruri said:

Do not associate my work or name with
beyoku or any of the responsible negro
crowd.

I have nothing to prove to white people
nor dissipate energy 'debating' them.

I don't waste my time on overtly white
owned/sponsored forums talking down
to my fellow black people but devote my
activity where I can reach black peoples
-- from old yahoogroups by late 90's and
early 2000's published Black Scholars like
Runoko Rashidi or Robin Walker & Fari
Supiya where Manu Ampim helped me
hone my Book of Gates the Gate of Teka Hra
4:5 Scene 30 translation and hypothesis (the
misnomered Table of Nations painting and
its text) to the original multi-disciplinary
non-Afrocentric EgyptSearch and today's
EgyptSearchReloaded.

Unfortunately ESR is too reactionary not
progressive, and it's current members are
incapable of discussing African genomics
therefore losing the modern information
race.


I do not explain away Africa's blackness
nor emphasize miscegenated Levantine
or outright white caucasian Turkey to Iran
peoples as the primary active agent genome
in Africa.

I do not agonize over African realities
nor merely regurgitate white scholarship
whose agenda is injecting themselves into
the root of everything 'recent' (ie post late
Pleistocene) African via SW Eurasian proxies
or directly by European Sardinians etc.

I think independently and don't muddle
my presentations with pseudo-scholarly
gobbledygook or dance around with non
sequitors when asked a question.

I do not waste time corresponding with
deranged megalomaniacs, whom I have
put on ignore and thankfully cannot see
what they post, but will gladly field any
query you may have about what I wrote
in the post where you quote me.
egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/post/20104

I'll entertain anyone who doesn't really believe
they're infallible. Just engage me and see.

If readers don't understand what I write
it's up to them to ask me to clarify or
supplement but there is no remedy for
one refusing to try and bring themself
up to speed. None of it fell out the
sky into my head. I had to study and
stumble and ask questions so I could
learn and develop my own takes on
Africana topics and related fields
informing/supporting independent
Afrikan minded academics.



====

[nebsen]

Home team latest video I thought might fit in with this conversation...he brings up I feel very relevant concerns concerning what we claim as part of who we are or not..! Also did not want to create a whole new post... when this thread could serve & fit the current post...so what do you feel & think ? I found the sound to be very low on my end so you might have to crank the sound up..

[zarahan]

He raises a number of good points. How come black folk are supposed to "confine" themselves only to
West or Central Africa as far as civilization but a white Swede can claim distant Greek civilization
as his European heritage? The people of NE Africa, and other parts south and west share a bunch of
links with Kemet for example- from DNA to dental- to limb proportion, to cultural artifacts.
In fact scientists have long used US blacks as a proxy to determine ancient Kemetian stature
and gender since the 1940s, because the limb proportions of both peoples are similar- both tropical
peoples. The US Blacks on that dimension are the closest match as far as population analysis, which
is why scientists use them. There are valid reasons for doing this and making similar data connections
that have nothing to do with "self esteem", "politics" or "Afrocentrism." Hell even Ramses III shows some
distinctive "sub Saharan" DNA elements, not to mention the recent DNA data on the Armana royals, etc.
Those who advance the "stick wit West Africa" argument are engaged in sheer hypocrisy, and they
seldom advocate that northern Europeans likewise confine themselves to Scandinavia or the British Isles.
And their isn't any rush in Europe to "confine" themselves to European culture and return the thousands of Egyptian
artifacts and remains (some looted) back to their "proper" point of origin. He is right in that we can
embrace the full range of African civilization whether north, south, east or west, as African civilizations
and we don't need permission or "clearance" for Arabs, Europeans, or modern Egyptians nativists, or anyone else
to do it.

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

New genomic articles w/XL sheets are out from

Wang - SSA aGENOMES
Lipson - W Afr Foragers -> mmmoderns
Vicente - Afr aDNA

each has references for more info

Tell str8 ↑

They all BS cos missing 8200 yr old Malawi's Mt Hora baby girl
that's got ancestries not supposed to be there then
shutting down biological Bantu drift
plus Altantic ancestries already there
B4 Sahra dries out dispersing downstream E-M2