Post by anansi on Apr 10, 2014 6:58:56 GMT -5
The relationship in form,sound,and meaning between Bibical names and corresponding Egyptian words is really quite astounding;indeed the Egyptian permits us to uncover meanings and connections heretofore completely hidden from us.the etymology therefore uncover a whole hidden history that conventional philology and theology seems utterly oblivious of.The results are sure to surprise and outrage.
Brada-Anansi
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The Hebrew Adam is the first man in the image of God,the father of mankind,and the completion of creation. The Egyptian Atem is the first God in the image of man and the father of mankind through a self-creative act. the root "tem" in Atem means both "completion" and "mankind". the word "At" is an Egyptian name for "father". moreover we know that Adam the first namer of created things;the Egyptian "dem" means "to name"clearly there is an Egyptian parentage for Adam and he is to be equated to Atem. Adam's consort is Eve whose Hebrew name is"(C)Havvah"and who, in the Genesis, story is seduced by the Serpent. the name Havvah corresponds to the Egyptian "Hefa" who is the Great Mother Serpent of the world.There are several meaning to peeled back here: Eve-Havvah as Hefa is the is Serpent of Geneisis in it's form as the Great Mother but Adam-Atem is also the the Great Serpent.the Serpent of Genesis,then,is indubitably Eve in one aspect but Adam in another;Thus Adam and Eve are both humanized forms of the Great Cosmic Serpent.
Brada-Anansi
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Adam and Eve gave birth to Cain, "Qayin" in Hebrew,who struck down his brother Abel in an act of murder.In Egyptian "qen" means to beat,to strike down,to murder,so Cain's name derives from the salient deeds of his life. The figure Noah is seen in many guises:he is the survivor of the flood,he is the first cultivator of the vine through which he succumbs to drunkenness, and he is also"the gardener,the husbandman,the cultivator." In Hebrew,Noah is "nouach"(the "ch" being pronounced like a near-silent "K").In Egyptian,"Nu" is the personification of the waters, the embodiment of the Great Flood of both heaven and earth.The Egyptian word "Akh" means "fertile field,garden,irrigated lands,"thus the Egyptian Nu-Akh is in reality the flood waters that irrigate and fertilize the cultivated lands,which is in perfect keeping with Noah's double personification as the man of the flood and the gardener or husbandman.The ark of Noah is a replica of the ark of the sun that floats across the heavenly waters of Nu (or Nun). Additionally,Noah-Nuach is identical to the Egyptian "nuch" which means "drunkenness",a clear reference to the drunken episode of Noah the wine maker.
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Brada-Anansi
Ham one of the sons of Noah,is derived from from the Egyptian "Kam" which is the strongest word in the language for "black" or "blackness."Noah second son Shem or Sem is of course the eponymous ancestor of the Semitic people whom the Egyptians first encounter as nomads,fittingly the Egyptian"sem" means wanderer or traveler.Abram,his name can be analyzed in Egyptian as follows:"Ab" means father in Egyptian and "rem" mean the people,giving "Ab-rem" meaning literally,the father of the people.This is perfectly consistent with Abram's position of patriarch of two important branches of Semitic peoples Hebrews and Arabs.After making the covenant with God through circumcision Abram becomes Abraham and the letters of his name can be broken down as follows in Egyptian,"ib" is an Egyptian word for "heart,desire,wisdom,"Ra" is the sun God Ra,and "im" means "fire or light," giving "Ib-Ra-Im"(remembering that Abraham is Ibrahima in Arabic)which means "the desire or wisdom of Ra's light or fire.Through this we can connect Abraham to Ra and it is Ra in Egyptian mythology who first institutes the rite of circumcision.This correspondences cannot possibly be coincidental and given the fact that Abrahams sojourn in Egypt as described in Genesis and the cultural hegemony of Egypt over Western Asia,this makes him a devotee,a priest,or even a personification of Ra himself. the connection continues in the figure of Abraham's second son Isaac,which in Hebrew is Ysak.In Egyptian "Ys" means place and "akh" means offering by fire or burnt offering,giving "Ys-akh"or the "place of burnt offering" In the O.T story the out standing event of Issac life when he was about to sacrificed to God as a burnt offering.Well what do you guys think?esp:people with language skills like Altakuri and Wally
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Brada-Anansi
Credit to Dr Charles S Finch.
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-Just Call Me Jari-
quote:
Originally posted by ackee:
The Hebrew Adam is the first man in the image of God,the father of mankind,and the completion of creation. The Egyptian Atem is the first God in the image of man and the father of mankind through a self-creative act. the root "tem" in Atem means both "completion" and "mankind". the word "At" is an Egyptian name for "father". moreover we know that Adam the frist namer of created things;the Egyptian "dem" means "to name"clearly there is an Egyptian parentage for Adam and he is to be equated to Atem. Adam's consort is Eve whose Hebrew name is"(C)Havvah"and who, in the Genesis, story is seduced by the Serpent. the name Havvah corresponds to the Egyptian "Hefa" who is the Great Mother Serpent of the world.There are several meaning to peeled back here: Eve-Havvah as Hefa is the is Serpent of Geneisis in it's form as the Great Mother but Adam-Atem is also the the Great Serpent.the Serpent of Genesis,then,is indubitably Eve in one aspect but Adam in another;Thus Adam and Eve are both humanized forms of the Great Cosmic Serpent.
Destroys the ridiculous idea that Adam was Red or Edom. Adam comes from the word Adamah meaning Ground. Edom is a word associated with Red...and White people as defined today aer described in Hebrew and Arab work as Reddish skinned.
Markellion can attest to that.
Also from my research on Jewish blogs many Jewish people acknowledge that the Biblical Hebrews has High respect for Hamitic(Africans) and in some blogs it is shown that Black skin was seen as beautiful by the Jewish people. This is from White Jews not black Hebrew sites. Also I have ran across a blog or two... that some Jewish Rabbis say that the Jews were originally "African".. unfortunately I lost the link(I know it had to do with African Americans converting to Judaism) But that can not be logically speaking because the Africans were Hamitic and although the Hebrews lived in two Hamitic lands before Israel(Canaan and Egypt) they were still Shemetic. I believe what the Rabbi meant was the Jews(Hebrews) were originally black and this is a fact known even to the Jewish people.
-Just Call Me Jari-
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Also te Hebrews often married Hamitic women. Two of the Tribes of Israel were half Egyptian trough Joseph, Ishmael although not a Hebrew married and Egyptian. Esau married two Hamitic women.
The people most associated with the Hebrews are often Africans, Moses is mistaken for an Egyptian in Exodus 1:19.
"Are ye not like the Children of Ethiopia to me says the lord" Amos 9:7
Also the bible says that Africans would come to learn and call the God of Israel
The Egyptians will even be saved from oppression from the Most High. Isaiah 19:20, and it will be for a sign and for a witness to the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt, for they will cry to the Lord because of oppressors, and he will send them a savior and a Mighty one, and he will deliver them."
I wonder though in this verse if the prophet Isaiah is speaking of Egypt or of Africa as a whole? Seems to me the Prophet foresaw that oppression of Egypt and Africa long ago. Even While Egypt and all the Hamitic lands were to some extent world powers. This proves the power and authenticity of the Prophets especially Isaiah. I really believe that Isaiah 19, "The Burden of Egypt"=The "Burden of Africa"
Also there are similarities between the Biblical Shem and the Egyptian King Semsen the 7th Ruler of the 1st dynasty...and also the land of upper Egypt called "Shemsu" by Egyptians is rem. or Shem...However I personally think it is related to the Biblical Mizriam/Menes the founder of Km.t
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Brada-Anansi
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Well Jeri,if i am reading DR Finch correctly,the Hebrews were not only part Kemities but their religion derived directly from Kemet.Quote,from Isaac comes Jacob,his second son who after wrestling with god,changes his name from Jacob to Israel.In his manifestation as we get the Hebrew Yacub,broken down into Egyptian as:"Ya" a name of the moon and the moon-God and "Qeb" which means "circuit" giving "Ya-qeb" meaning "the circuit of the moon." This refer to the nightly and monthly travels of the moon and reflects the facts that the earliest Semitic deities were identified with the moon.But the change in the name to Israel reflect a new pattern of worship. Israel in Egyptian is broken down to:"Ys" meaning place,and "ra" which is RA,and "ir" meaning "creation",("L" and "R" are interchangeable linguistically in the termal"el/ir")thus we have "the place of Ra's creation.
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Clyde Winters
Original Jews were Blacks
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MikeIII
ackee Quote: Isreal in Egyptian is broken down to:"Ys" meaning place,and "ra" which is RA,and "ir" meaning "creation",("L" and "R" are interchangeable linguistically in the termal"el/ir")thus we have "the place of Ra's creation.
I really don't see how that jibes with the meaning in Hebrew, which is "God Contented" Isra + el (the Canaanite God EL)
Other names which evoke the name of El:
Michael - he who is like God
Daniel - God is my judge
Gabriel - strong man of God
Gamaliel - benefit of God
Hazael - one that sees God
Emmanuel - God is with us
Ishmael - God will hear
As should be clear from Hebrew history and other sources, such as the “Dead Sea Scrolls” the Hebrew religion was a conglomeration of the religions that the Hebrews experienced in their travels.
Their first experience as a settled people was in Sumer. From Sumer they took the basics of their religion:
Biblical parallels in Sumerian literature.
Traces of Sumerian religion survive today and are reflected in writings of the Bible. As late as Ezekiel, there is mention of a Sumerian deity. In Ezekiel 8:14 the prophet sees women of Israel weeping for Tammuz (Dumuzi) during a drought.
The bulk of Sumerian parallels can, however be found much earlier, in the book of Genesis. As in Genesis, the Sumerians' world is formed out of the watery abyss and the heavens and earth are divinely separated from one another by a solid dome. The second chapter of Genesis introduces the paradise Eden, a place which is similar to the Sumerian Dilmun, described in the myth of "Enki and Ninhursag". Dilmun is a pure, bright, and holy land - now often identified with Bahrain in the Persian Gulf. It is blessed by Enki to have overflowing, sweet water. Enki fills it with lagoons and palm trees. He impregnates Ninhursag and causes eight new plants to grow from the earth. Eden, "in the East" (Gen. 2:8 has a river which also "rises" or overflows, to form four rivers including the Tigris and Euphrates. It too is lush and has fruit bearing trees. (Gen. 2:9-10 In the second version of the creation of man "The Lord God formed man out of the clay of the ground and blew into his nostrils the breath of life, and so man became a living being.
Enki and Ninmah (Ninhursag) use a similar method in creating man. Nammu, queen of the abyss and Enki's mother, bids Enki to "Kneed the 'heart' of the clay that is over the Abzu " and "give it form" From there the similarities cease as the two create several malformed humans and then the two deities get into an argument.
Returning to Enki and Ninhursag, we find a possible parallel to the creation of Eve. Enki consumed the plants that were Ninhursag's children and so was cursed by Ninhursag, receiving one wound for each plant consumed. Enlil and a fox act on Enki's behalf to call back Ninhursag in order to undo the damage. She joins with him again and bears eight new children, each of whom are the cure to one of his wounds. The one who cures his rib is named Ninti, whose name means the Queen of months, pp. 28-30) the lady of the rib, or she who makes live.
This association carries over to Eve. History Begins at Sumer 1981: pp. 143-144) In Genesis, Eve is fashioned from Adam's rib and her name hawwa is related to the Hebrew word hay or living. (New American Bible p. 7.) The prologue of "Gilgamesh, Enkidu and the Underworld" may contain the predecessor to the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This tree not only contains a crafty serpent, but also Lilith the legendary first wife of Adam. The huluppu tree is transplanted by Inanna from the banks of the Euphrates to her garden in Uruk, where she finds that:
...a serpent who could not be charmed
made its nest in the roots of the tree,
The bird set his young in the branches of the tree,
And the dark maid Lilith built her home in the trunk.
Another possible Sumerian carry-over related to the Fall of man is the lack of "pangs of childbearing" for those in Dilmun. In particular, Ninhursag gives birth in nine days, not nine months, and the pass "like good princely cream" (Kramer 1981: p. 142,145) or "fine oil"
The quarrels between herder god and farmer deity pairs such as Lahar and Ashnan or Enten and Emesh are similar in some respects to the quarrels of Cain and Abel. In the Sumerian versions death appears to be avoided, although we do not have the complete Lahar and Ashnan story. (Kramer 1961 pp. 49-51, 53-54)
The story of Noah is taken from the Sumerian epic of Gilgamesh.
Zoroastrianism
From their Babylonian bondage, and Cyrus’s subsequent freeing of the Hebrews; they acquired from Zoroastrianism it’s attempt at unifying under the worship of one supreme god; and also the concept of dualism: the battle of Good and Evil, which fight an unequal battle in which the former is assured of triumph. The Hebrews experiences with Akhenaton, was probably their introduction to monotheism. The other Egyptian contributions to the Hebrew religion should already be known to the forum.
Contrary to myth, even after they became a nation, the Hebrews were NOT monotheistic. Example;
During the reign of king Omri; The Phoenician kingdom of Tyre, was made an ally through the marriage of Omri's son Ahab, to the Tyrian princess Jezebel. However, the establishment of a temple to the pagan god Baal (one of the main Canaanite gods), for Jezebels use. And Jezebels attempts to spread the cult of Baal, aroused great opposition on the part of the zealous Yahwists (Yahway - the Hebrew name for God), among the common people. There was also resentment at the despotic manner of Ahabs rule, which was though to have been incited by Jezebel. She and her cult were challenged by the prophet Elijah - One of Elijah's disciples Elisha, organized the slaughter of Jezebel, Ahab and the whole royal family, as well as all worshippers of Baal. This put a stop to the Baalist threat. "Jehu" Elisha's co-conspirator, and Jehoram's general, who had led this massacre. Became king and established a dynasty that lasted almost a century (842–745 B.C.), the longest in the history of Israel.
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Brada Anansi
DR Winters,the fact that the original Jews were blacks is not as interesting as the fact that they may well be actually been Kemities who carried a form of Kemitic culture and religion into west Asia.As Massey said,no one has been inclined to consider what the Egyptians themselves had to say on the matter.there are the accounts of two Egyptian chroniclers,Apion and Manetho, who had access to ancient Egyptian sources and whose writings have only come down to us in fragmentary fashion through the eyes of a hostile witness.they have their own version of the exodus story which we know primarily through the writings of Flavius Josephus,who in his essay against Apion attempted to refute them.to summarize Manetho(after Josephus),there was at least two-perhaps even three-exodus out of Egypt that took place.One involving a remnant loyal to the defeated Hykosos that repaired to the city of Jerusalem,and the other a band of downtrodden Egyptian religious dissenters led by an apostate Egyptian priest of Ra named Osarisph("sos of Osiris")into Palestine.It appears that the later post exile Hebrew chroniclers confounded the two episode.episode. Manetho equates Osarsiph with the Biblical Moses and according to him,led a group of his followers into Palestine where he instructed them in the worship of a single, exclusive deity apparently in reaction to Egyptian "polotheism".In Manetho's view,these followers of Moses-Osarisph were "unclean outcast" whom the Egyptians obliged to drive out. that Osarsiph and his followers may have been inspired by the monotheistic example of Akhenaten is entirely plausible.
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Brada Anansi
Well Mike111,the above was according to DR Charles S.Finch, he was braking down the Hebrew names using the Kemitic language and it seemed to fit their deeds and actions perfectly.go back to the above from the second post on thru and compare that with section of the O.T.,also their is the Canaanite God Rashef who strike a pose similar to a Kemitic pharaoh and is wearing the white crown of upper Kemet also Hercules,Gilgamesh and Osiris all seems to mirror each other in that they were the first to tame the wild lands and make way for civilized living,the question is which came first?.
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MikeIII
I don't know of Dr. Finch, but he sounds like a Quack. I don't know if you have read anything by Clyde on the subject, but Clyde claims that they all spoke a Mande language. While I don't know if this is true or not, the logic is supported by anecdotal data which shows a commonality of language. If that is the point that Dr. Finch is trying to make, then I agree.
Dr. Finch seems a little weak on Egyptian history as well, there was two well attested expulsions of the Hyksos. But I do agree that their monotheism was probably inspired by Akhenaten.
As to who originated the belief system, no one can say for sure, but since I like Sumerians better than Egyptians, I'll say it began in Sumer.
Thought the Hebrews were ethnically Anatolians, certainly there can be no doubt that the Hebrew religion started in Sumer. For one, the patriarch of the Hebrews "Abraham" was from the Sumerian city of Ur. Secondly, the Hebrew creation myths are Sumerian in nature.
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Brada Anansi
Mike111,while I am no linguist,the circumstances of their names,their residing in Kemet for long periods of time,the fact that kemet held not only political and military sway over the area,but cultural also,even if they were originally form Sumer,they according to their story spent 400yrs in Kemet so by the time they left they must have been mostly kemetic in culture and at-least half Kemite in in biology.As a matter of fact what did they do according to the O.T when Moses went up to Mt Sinai to receive the 10 "commandments"? ans:they made out of gold a golden calf,who would that golden calf be?.....Hathor,and according to D.R Ben,the 10 commandments were just an abridge verision of the 42 negative confession.and while you are giddy about the Sumerians some people claim that ancient Kemet is about 600yrs older than the first dynasty of Sumer,and if you add an extra 200yrs from the time of Ta-seti you are talking 800yrs of statehood before the first appearance of the Sumerians.
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Just Call Me Jeri
Originally posted by Anansi:
Well Jeri,if i am reading DR Finch correctly,the Hebrews were not only part Kemeties but their religion devrived directly from Kemet.Quote,from Isaac comes Jacob,his second son who after westling with god,changes his name from Jacob to Isreal.In his manifisation as we get the Hebrew Yacub.broken down into Egyptian as:"Ya" a name of the moon and the moon-God and "Qeb" which means "circuit" giving "Ya-qeb" meaning "the curcuit of the moon." This refer to the nightly and monthly travels of the moon and reflects the facts that the earliest Semitic deities were identfied with the moon.But the change in the name to Isreal reflect a new pattern of worship. Isreal in Egyptian is broken down to:"Ys" meaning place,and "ra" which is RA,and "ir" meaning "creation",("L" and "R" are interchangeable linguistically in the termal"el/ir")thus we have "the place of Ra's creation.
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Well I did'nt live back then but If I was to make an ametuer guess I would say that it is unlikely that the Hebrews were Egyptians, becuase I think if they were They would either have a many Gods, have claimed thier promised land was somewhere in Egypt or in Africa..Maybe Punt..or other factors.
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Just Call Me Jeri
Originally posted by Anansi:
Mike111,while iam no linguist,the circumstances of their names,their residing in Kemet for long periods of time,the fact that kemet held not only political and military sway over the area,but cultural also,even if they were originally form Sumer,they according to their story spent 400yrs in Kemet so by the time they left they must have been mostly kemetic in culture and at-least half Kemite in in biology.As a matter of fact what did they do according to the O.T when Moses went up to Mt Sinai to receive the 10 "commandments"? ans:they made out of gold a golden calf,who would that golden calf be?.....Hathor,and according to D.R Ben,the 10 commandments were just an abridge version of the 42 negative confession.and while you are giddy about the Sumerians some people claim that ancient Kemet is about 600yrs older than the first dynasty of Sumer,and if you add an extra 200yrs from the time of Ta-seti you are talking 800yrs of statehood before the first appearance of the Sumerians.
Don't forget that Most of the Patriarchs of the Hebrew nations Married Egyptians and Moses the Most important man in the Old Testament married an Ethiopian. Two of the sons of Israel were half Egyptian..Ephriam and Mennassah...also many think that Joseph is the Egyptian Imhotep.
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I agree that the 10 commandments are found in the Neg. Confessions, however the Bible does say that God made Egypt great to show his greatness....also the Neg. Confessions were just that confessions...They were not rules per say as with the 10 commandments...I thought that the Neg. Confessions were made so the decieced could read the inscriptions and sort of cheat their way into heaven.
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Brada-Anansi
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The Hebrew Adam is the first man in the image of God,the father of mankind,and the completion of creation. The Egyptian Atem is the first God in the image of man and the father of mankind through a self-creative act. the root "tem" in Atem means both "completion" and "mankind". the word "At" is an Egyptian name for "father". moreover we know that Adam the first namer of created things;the Egyptian "dem" means "to name"clearly there is an Egyptian parentage for Adam and he is to be equated to Atem. Adam's consort is Eve whose Hebrew name is"(C)Havvah"and who, in the Genesis, story is seduced by the Serpent. the name Havvah corresponds to the Egyptian "Hefa" who is the Great Mother Serpent of the world.There are several meaning to peeled back here: Eve-Havvah as Hefa is the is Serpent of Geneisis in it's form as the Great Mother but Adam-Atem is also the the Great Serpent.the Serpent of Genesis,then,is indubitably Eve in one aspect but Adam in another;Thus Adam and Eve are both humanized forms of the Great Cosmic Serpent.
Brada-Anansi
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Adam and Eve gave birth to Cain, "Qayin" in Hebrew,who struck down his brother Abel in an act of murder.In Egyptian "qen" means to beat,to strike down,to murder,so Cain's name derives from the salient deeds of his life. The figure Noah is seen in many guises:he is the survivor of the flood,he is the first cultivator of the vine through which he succumbs to drunkenness, and he is also"the gardener,the husbandman,the cultivator." In Hebrew,Noah is "nouach"(the "ch" being pronounced like a near-silent "K").In Egyptian,"Nu" is the personification of the waters, the embodiment of the Great Flood of both heaven and earth.The Egyptian word "Akh" means "fertile field,garden,irrigated lands,"thus the Egyptian Nu-Akh is in reality the flood waters that irrigate and fertilize the cultivated lands,which is in perfect keeping with Noah's double personification as the man of the flood and the gardener or husbandman.The ark of Noah is a replica of the ark of the sun that floats across the heavenly waters of Nu (or Nun). Additionally,Noah-Nuach is identical to the Egyptian "nuch" which means "drunkenness",a clear reference to the drunken episode of Noah the wine maker.
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Brada-Anansi
Ham one of the sons of Noah,is derived from from the Egyptian "Kam" which is the strongest word in the language for "black" or "blackness."Noah second son Shem or Sem is of course the eponymous ancestor of the Semitic people whom the Egyptians first encounter as nomads,fittingly the Egyptian"sem" means wanderer or traveler.Abram,his name can be analyzed in Egyptian as follows:"Ab" means father in Egyptian and "rem" mean the people,giving "Ab-rem" meaning literally,the father of the people.This is perfectly consistent with Abram's position of patriarch of two important branches of Semitic peoples Hebrews and Arabs.After making the covenant with God through circumcision Abram becomes Abraham and the letters of his name can be broken down as follows in Egyptian,"ib" is an Egyptian word for "heart,desire,wisdom,"Ra" is the sun God Ra,and "im" means "fire or light," giving "Ib-Ra-Im"(remembering that Abraham is Ibrahima in Arabic)which means "the desire or wisdom of Ra's light or fire.Through this we can connect Abraham to Ra and it is Ra in Egyptian mythology who first institutes the rite of circumcision.This correspondences cannot possibly be coincidental and given the fact that Abrahams sojourn in Egypt as described in Genesis and the cultural hegemony of Egypt over Western Asia,this makes him a devotee,a priest,or even a personification of Ra himself. the connection continues in the figure of Abraham's second son Isaac,which in Hebrew is Ysak.In Egyptian "Ys" means place and "akh" means offering by fire or burnt offering,giving "Ys-akh"or the "place of burnt offering" In the O.T story the out standing event of Issac life when he was about to sacrificed to God as a burnt offering.Well what do you guys think?esp:people with language skills like Altakuri and Wally
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Brada-Anansi
Credit to Dr Charles S Finch.
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-Just Call Me Jari-
quote:
Originally posted by ackee:
The Hebrew Adam is the first man in the image of God,the father of mankind,and the completion of creation. The Egyptian Atem is the first God in the image of man and the father of mankind through a self-creative act. the root "tem" in Atem means both "completion" and "mankind". the word "At" is an Egyptian name for "father". moreover we know that Adam the frist namer of created things;the Egyptian "dem" means "to name"clearly there is an Egyptian parentage for Adam and he is to be equated to Atem. Adam's consort is Eve whose Hebrew name is"(C)Havvah"and who, in the Genesis, story is seduced by the Serpent. the name Havvah corresponds to the Egyptian "Hefa" who is the Great Mother Serpent of the world.There are several meaning to peeled back here: Eve-Havvah as Hefa is the is Serpent of Geneisis in it's form as the Great Mother but Adam-Atem is also the the Great Serpent.the Serpent of Genesis,then,is indubitably Eve in one aspect but Adam in another;Thus Adam and Eve are both humanized forms of the Great Cosmic Serpent.
Destroys the ridiculous idea that Adam was Red or Edom. Adam comes from the word Adamah meaning Ground. Edom is a word associated with Red...and White people as defined today aer described in Hebrew and Arab work as Reddish skinned.
Markellion can attest to that.
Also from my research on Jewish blogs many Jewish people acknowledge that the Biblical Hebrews has High respect for Hamitic(Africans) and in some blogs it is shown that Black skin was seen as beautiful by the Jewish people. This is from White Jews not black Hebrew sites. Also I have ran across a blog or two... that some Jewish Rabbis say that the Jews were originally "African".. unfortunately I lost the link(I know it had to do with African Americans converting to Judaism) But that can not be logically speaking because the Africans were Hamitic and although the Hebrews lived in two Hamitic lands before Israel(Canaan and Egypt) they were still Shemetic. I believe what the Rabbi meant was the Jews(Hebrews) were originally black and this is a fact known even to the Jewish people.
-Just Call Me Jari-
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Also te Hebrews often married Hamitic women. Two of the Tribes of Israel were half Egyptian trough Joseph, Ishmael although not a Hebrew married and Egyptian. Esau married two Hamitic women.
The people most associated with the Hebrews are often Africans, Moses is mistaken for an Egyptian in Exodus 1:19.
"Are ye not like the Children of Ethiopia to me says the lord" Amos 9:7
Also the bible says that Africans would come to learn and call the God of Israel
The Egyptians will even be saved from oppression from the Most High. Isaiah 19:20, and it will be for a sign and for a witness to the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt, for they will cry to the Lord because of oppressors, and he will send them a savior and a Mighty one, and he will deliver them."
I wonder though in this verse if the prophet Isaiah is speaking of Egypt or of Africa as a whole? Seems to me the Prophet foresaw that oppression of Egypt and Africa long ago. Even While Egypt and all the Hamitic lands were to some extent world powers. This proves the power and authenticity of the Prophets especially Isaiah. I really believe that Isaiah 19, "The Burden of Egypt"=The "Burden of Africa"
Also there are similarities between the Biblical Shem and the Egyptian King Semsen the 7th Ruler of the 1st dynasty...and also the land of upper Egypt called "Shemsu" by Egyptians is rem. or Shem...However I personally think it is related to the Biblical Mizriam/Menes the founder of Km.t
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Brada-Anansi
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Well Jeri,if i am reading DR Finch correctly,the Hebrews were not only part Kemities but their religion derived directly from Kemet.Quote,from Isaac comes Jacob,his second son who after wrestling with god,changes his name from Jacob to Israel.In his manifestation as we get the Hebrew Yacub,broken down into Egyptian as:"Ya" a name of the moon and the moon-God and "Qeb" which means "circuit" giving "Ya-qeb" meaning "the circuit of the moon." This refer to the nightly and monthly travels of the moon and reflects the facts that the earliest Semitic deities were identified with the moon.But the change in the name to Israel reflect a new pattern of worship. Israel in Egyptian is broken down to:"Ys" meaning place,and "ra" which is RA,and "ir" meaning "creation",("L" and "R" are interchangeable linguistically in the termal"el/ir")thus we have "the place of Ra's creation.
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Clyde Winters
Original Jews were Blacks
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MikeIII
ackee Quote: Isreal in Egyptian is broken down to:"Ys" meaning place,and "ra" which is RA,and "ir" meaning "creation",("L" and "R" are interchangeable linguistically in the termal"el/ir")thus we have "the place of Ra's creation.
I really don't see how that jibes with the meaning in Hebrew, which is "God Contented" Isra + el (the Canaanite God EL)
Other names which evoke the name of El:
Michael - he who is like God
Daniel - God is my judge
Gabriel - strong man of God
Gamaliel - benefit of God
Hazael - one that sees God
Emmanuel - God is with us
Ishmael - God will hear
As should be clear from Hebrew history and other sources, such as the “Dead Sea Scrolls” the Hebrew religion was a conglomeration of the religions that the Hebrews experienced in their travels.
Their first experience as a settled people was in Sumer. From Sumer they took the basics of their religion:
Biblical parallels in Sumerian literature.
Traces of Sumerian religion survive today and are reflected in writings of the Bible. As late as Ezekiel, there is mention of a Sumerian deity. In Ezekiel 8:14 the prophet sees women of Israel weeping for Tammuz (Dumuzi) during a drought.
The bulk of Sumerian parallels can, however be found much earlier, in the book of Genesis. As in Genesis, the Sumerians' world is formed out of the watery abyss and the heavens and earth are divinely separated from one another by a solid dome. The second chapter of Genesis introduces the paradise Eden, a place which is similar to the Sumerian Dilmun, described in the myth of "Enki and Ninhursag". Dilmun is a pure, bright, and holy land - now often identified with Bahrain in the Persian Gulf. It is blessed by Enki to have overflowing, sweet water. Enki fills it with lagoons and palm trees. He impregnates Ninhursag and causes eight new plants to grow from the earth. Eden, "in the East" (Gen. 2:8 has a river which also "rises" or overflows, to form four rivers including the Tigris and Euphrates. It too is lush and has fruit bearing trees. (Gen. 2:9-10 In the second version of the creation of man "The Lord God formed man out of the clay of the ground and blew into his nostrils the breath of life, and so man became a living being.
Enki and Ninmah (Ninhursag) use a similar method in creating man. Nammu, queen of the abyss and Enki's mother, bids Enki to "Kneed the 'heart' of the clay that is over the Abzu " and "give it form" From there the similarities cease as the two create several malformed humans and then the two deities get into an argument.
Returning to Enki and Ninhursag, we find a possible parallel to the creation of Eve. Enki consumed the plants that were Ninhursag's children and so was cursed by Ninhursag, receiving one wound for each plant consumed. Enlil and a fox act on Enki's behalf to call back Ninhursag in order to undo the damage. She joins with him again and bears eight new children, each of whom are the cure to one of his wounds. The one who cures his rib is named Ninti, whose name means the Queen of months, pp. 28-30) the lady of the rib, or she who makes live.
This association carries over to Eve. History Begins at Sumer 1981: pp. 143-144) In Genesis, Eve is fashioned from Adam's rib and her name hawwa is related to the Hebrew word hay or living. (New American Bible p. 7.) The prologue of "Gilgamesh, Enkidu and the Underworld" may contain the predecessor to the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This tree not only contains a crafty serpent, but also Lilith the legendary first wife of Adam. The huluppu tree is transplanted by Inanna from the banks of the Euphrates to her garden in Uruk, where she finds that:
...a serpent who could not be charmed
made its nest in the roots of the tree,
The bird set his young in the branches of the tree,
And the dark maid Lilith built her home in the trunk.
Another possible Sumerian carry-over related to the Fall of man is the lack of "pangs of childbearing" for those in Dilmun. In particular, Ninhursag gives birth in nine days, not nine months, and the pass "like good princely cream" (Kramer 1981: p. 142,145) or "fine oil"
The quarrels between herder god and farmer deity pairs such as Lahar and Ashnan or Enten and Emesh are similar in some respects to the quarrels of Cain and Abel. In the Sumerian versions death appears to be avoided, although we do not have the complete Lahar and Ashnan story. (Kramer 1961 pp. 49-51, 53-54)
The story of Noah is taken from the Sumerian epic of Gilgamesh.
Zoroastrianism
From their Babylonian bondage, and Cyrus’s subsequent freeing of the Hebrews; they acquired from Zoroastrianism it’s attempt at unifying under the worship of one supreme god; and also the concept of dualism: the battle of Good and Evil, which fight an unequal battle in which the former is assured of triumph. The Hebrews experiences with Akhenaton, was probably their introduction to monotheism. The other Egyptian contributions to the Hebrew religion should already be known to the forum.
Contrary to myth, even after they became a nation, the Hebrews were NOT monotheistic. Example;
During the reign of king Omri; The Phoenician kingdom of Tyre, was made an ally through the marriage of Omri's son Ahab, to the Tyrian princess Jezebel. However, the establishment of a temple to the pagan god Baal (one of the main Canaanite gods), for Jezebels use. And Jezebels attempts to spread the cult of Baal, aroused great opposition on the part of the zealous Yahwists (Yahway - the Hebrew name for God), among the common people. There was also resentment at the despotic manner of Ahabs rule, which was though to have been incited by Jezebel. She and her cult were challenged by the prophet Elijah - One of Elijah's disciples Elisha, organized the slaughter of Jezebel, Ahab and the whole royal family, as well as all worshippers of Baal. This put a stop to the Baalist threat. "Jehu" Elisha's co-conspirator, and Jehoram's general, who had led this massacre. Became king and established a dynasty that lasted almost a century (842–745 B.C.), the longest in the history of Israel.
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Brada Anansi
DR Winters,the fact that the original Jews were blacks is not as interesting as the fact that they may well be actually been Kemities who carried a form of Kemitic culture and religion into west Asia.As Massey said,no one has been inclined to consider what the Egyptians themselves had to say on the matter.there are the accounts of two Egyptian chroniclers,Apion and Manetho, who had access to ancient Egyptian sources and whose writings have only come down to us in fragmentary fashion through the eyes of a hostile witness.they have their own version of the exodus story which we know primarily through the writings of Flavius Josephus,who in his essay against Apion attempted to refute them.to summarize Manetho(after Josephus),there was at least two-perhaps even three-exodus out of Egypt that took place.One involving a remnant loyal to the defeated Hykosos that repaired to the city of Jerusalem,and the other a band of downtrodden Egyptian religious dissenters led by an apostate Egyptian priest of Ra named Osarisph("sos of Osiris")into Palestine.It appears that the later post exile Hebrew chroniclers confounded the two episode.episode. Manetho equates Osarsiph with the Biblical Moses and according to him,led a group of his followers into Palestine where he instructed them in the worship of a single, exclusive deity apparently in reaction to Egyptian "polotheism".In Manetho's view,these followers of Moses-Osarisph were "unclean outcast" whom the Egyptians obliged to drive out. that Osarsiph and his followers may have been inspired by the monotheistic example of Akhenaten is entirely plausible.
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Brada Anansi
Well Mike111,the above was according to DR Charles S.Finch, he was braking down the Hebrew names using the Kemitic language and it seemed to fit their deeds and actions perfectly.go back to the above from the second post on thru and compare that with section of the O.T.,also their is the Canaanite God Rashef who strike a pose similar to a Kemitic pharaoh and is wearing the white crown of upper Kemet also Hercules,Gilgamesh and Osiris all seems to mirror each other in that they were the first to tame the wild lands and make way for civilized living,the question is which came first?.
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MikeIII
I don't know of Dr. Finch, but he sounds like a Quack. I don't know if you have read anything by Clyde on the subject, but Clyde claims that they all spoke a Mande language. While I don't know if this is true or not, the logic is supported by anecdotal data which shows a commonality of language. If that is the point that Dr. Finch is trying to make, then I agree.
Dr. Finch seems a little weak on Egyptian history as well, there was two well attested expulsions of the Hyksos. But I do agree that their monotheism was probably inspired by Akhenaten.
As to who originated the belief system, no one can say for sure, but since I like Sumerians better than Egyptians, I'll say it began in Sumer.
Thought the Hebrews were ethnically Anatolians, certainly there can be no doubt that the Hebrew religion started in Sumer. For one, the patriarch of the Hebrews "Abraham" was from the Sumerian city of Ur. Secondly, the Hebrew creation myths are Sumerian in nature.
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Brada Anansi
Mike111,while I am no linguist,the circumstances of their names,their residing in Kemet for long periods of time,the fact that kemet held not only political and military sway over the area,but cultural also,even if they were originally form Sumer,they according to their story spent 400yrs in Kemet so by the time they left they must have been mostly kemetic in culture and at-least half Kemite in in biology.As a matter of fact what did they do according to the O.T when Moses went up to Mt Sinai to receive the 10 "commandments"? ans:they made out of gold a golden calf,who would that golden calf be?.....Hathor,and according to D.R Ben,the 10 commandments were just an abridge verision of the 42 negative confession.and while you are giddy about the Sumerians some people claim that ancient Kemet is about 600yrs older than the first dynasty of Sumer,and if you add an extra 200yrs from the time of Ta-seti you are talking 800yrs of statehood before the first appearance of the Sumerians.
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Just Call Me Jeri
Originally posted by Anansi:
Well Jeri,if i am reading DR Finch correctly,the Hebrews were not only part Kemeties but their religion devrived directly from Kemet.Quote,from Isaac comes Jacob,his second son who after westling with god,changes his name from Jacob to Isreal.In his manifisation as we get the Hebrew Yacub.broken down into Egyptian as:"Ya" a name of the moon and the moon-God and "Qeb" which means "circuit" giving "Ya-qeb" meaning "the curcuit of the moon." This refer to the nightly and monthly travels of the moon and reflects the facts that the earliest Semitic deities were identfied with the moon.But the change in the name to Isreal reflect a new pattern of worship. Isreal in Egyptian is broken down to:"Ys" meaning place,and "ra" which is RA,and "ir" meaning "creation",("L" and "R" are interchangeable linguistically in the termal"el/ir")thus we have "the place of Ra's creation.
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Well I did'nt live back then but If I was to make an ametuer guess I would say that it is unlikely that the Hebrews were Egyptians, becuase I think if they were They would either have a many Gods, have claimed thier promised land was somewhere in Egypt or in Africa..Maybe Punt..or other factors.
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Just Call Me Jeri
Originally posted by Anansi:
Mike111,while iam no linguist,the circumstances of their names,their residing in Kemet for long periods of time,the fact that kemet held not only political and military sway over the area,but cultural also,even if they were originally form Sumer,they according to their story spent 400yrs in Kemet so by the time they left they must have been mostly kemetic in culture and at-least half Kemite in in biology.As a matter of fact what did they do according to the O.T when Moses went up to Mt Sinai to receive the 10 "commandments"? ans:they made out of gold a golden calf,who would that golden calf be?.....Hathor,and according to D.R Ben,the 10 commandments were just an abridge version of the 42 negative confession.and while you are giddy about the Sumerians some people claim that ancient Kemet is about 600yrs older than the first dynasty of Sumer,and if you add an extra 200yrs from the time of Ta-seti you are talking 800yrs of statehood before the first appearance of the Sumerians.
Don't forget that Most of the Patriarchs of the Hebrew nations Married Egyptians and Moses the Most important man in the Old Testament married an Ethiopian. Two of the sons of Israel were half Egyptian..Ephriam and Mennassah...also many think that Joseph is the Egyptian Imhotep.
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I agree that the 10 commandments are found in the Neg. Confessions, however the Bible does say that God made Egypt great to show his greatness....also the Neg. Confessions were just that confessions...They were not rules per say as with the 10 commandments...I thought that the Neg. Confessions were made so the decieced could read the inscriptions and sort of cheat their way into heaven.
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