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Post by truthteacher2007 on Aug 19, 2014 23:19:23 GMT -5
I posted this and the woman I was debating said that you guys are not legitimate, and your arguments are invalid. Oh yeah, Thanks everyone for posting. And my 2 cents. Even if they are admixed.... So the hell what? Let me ask a question, with regards to Afro Americans and Afro Latinos when the rate of non African admixture is as high as 50% or grater, is there ever any confusion as to who is who or what is what? Never! It seems no amount of European blood can wash the nigger out, but if ther's even one drop of non African blood in an African everybody gets all excited and wants to insinuate that they're nor really black. Give me a fkng brake! So what is this supposed to be? Some argument that Non African blood made East Africans smart? Then how come it doesn't work in the new world? Puleeze!
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Aug 20, 2014 7:15:30 GMT -5
I posted this and the woman I was debating said that you guys are not legitimate, and your arguments are invalid. Oh yeah, Thanks everyone for posting. Agreed. I am not a geneticist, but this is what the author states. I hope she can read and understand. This is all you need. to show her. If she cannot understand it. She is hopeless. ==== Quote from the paper : - However, Yemeni sequences, IN CONTRAST to their clustering together with Ethiopian and Egyptian populations in the MDS plot (fig. 3), show GREATER AFFILIATION to haplotypes detected in Mozambique. The haplotype sharing with Mozambique accounts for 23% of the total and 49% of haplogroup L0–L5 lineages among Yemenis. The lack of M and N lineages in the Mozambique sample is the ONLY apparent factor that separates it from Yemenis in the MDS plot. It should be noted here that the percentage of shared lineages between Yemeni and Mozambique mtDNAs cannot be taken as a measure of actual admixture proportion, because there is a substantial fraction of uninformative haplotypes in both samples. These include either matches or the lack of matches, both in northeastern and southeastern African populations, that probably reflect the incomplete sampling of Africa. Compared with Bantu speakers from southeastern Africa, the Ethiopian contribution to the Yemeni mtDNA pool can be considered relatively minor, since the shared haplotypes account for just 9% of the total variation. ==== BTW - What they are suggesting is MN lineage are new to Yemen where the older lineage already existed. this is exactly what DNAtribes and Lazardis showed through SNP.
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Aug 20, 2014 7:35:43 GMT -5
I posted this and the woman I was debating said that you guys are not legitimate, and your arguments are invalid. Oh yeah, Thanks everyone for posting. (hers)Translation - I don't know how to respond. I have no response to the facts posted. So I will attack their character or resort to personal attacks. Eurocentric Doctrine #? Get used to it and ignore it. The truth always prevails.
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Post by anastasiaescrava on Aug 20, 2014 12:54:33 GMT -5
I posted this and the woman I was debating said that you guys are not legitimate, and your arguments are invalid. Oh yeah, Thanks everyone for posting. Agreed. I am not a geneticist, but this is what the author states. I hope she can read and understand. This is all you need. to show her. If she cannot understand it. She is hopeless. ==== Quote from the paper : - However, Yemeni sequences, IN CONTRAST to their clustering together with Ethiopian and Egyptian populations in the MDS plot (fig. 3), show GREATER AFFILIATION to haplotypes detected in Mozambique. The haplotype sharing with Mozambique accounts for 23% of the total and 49% of haplogroup L0–L5 lineages among Yemenis. The lack of M and N lineages in the Mozambique sample is the ONLY apparent factor that separates it from Yemenis in the MDS plot. It should be noted here that the percentage of shared lineages between Yemeni and Mozambique mtDNAs cannot be taken as a measure of actual admixture proportion, because there is a substantial fraction of uninformative haplotypes in both samples. These include either matches or the lack of matches, both in northeastern and southeastern African populations, that probably reflect the incomplete sampling of Africa. Compared with Bantu speakers from southeastern Africa, the Ethiopian contribution to the Yemeni mtDNA pool can be considered relatively minor, since the shared haplotypes account for just 9% of the total variation. ==== BTW - What they are suggesting is MN lineage are new to Yemen where the older lineage already existed. this is exactly what DNAtribes and Lazardis showed through SNP. Do you have the link to the whole paper?
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Post by anastasiaescrava on Aug 20, 2014 13:08:34 GMT -5
When you start off reading these papers one of the things you must first check is the DATE and author/co-authors. It may be outdated and therefore more up-to-date information will be available. I also like to see a reputable author pen his name or co-author the paper There are a few here although the paper is outdated. Semino, Hammer, Quintana. They are all popular now so I guess they were starters when they wrote this piece. First off they use the term Caucasoid which is no longer used in the racial context. Currently even said authors no longer use those terms. Caucasoid can be misleading since it sometimes equate to an European origin. Haplogroups - X and H does not have a European origin. Although hg-H has high frequency IN Europe. The jury is out on whether hg-H has an African or Arabian/Yemeni origin. This paper also analyze enzymes within Yemenis and East Ethiopians which is also an outdated method.
But, nevertheless, undoubtedly there exist strong genetic links between Yemen and Eastern Africa. The question is, what is the predominant DIRECTION of gene flow. In other words did African pass the genes on to Yemenis or the Yeminis pass the gene on to Africans?. Most reputable geneticist has concluded that African pass the genes unto Arabians as supported by the archeological data. Irregardeless Yemenis/Southern Arabia is predominantly African. I quoted by DNATribes cited many times before. Where did you get the info for the X and H haplogroup? How do you know if this is outdated?
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Aug 20, 2014 16:49:21 GMT -5
??. You posted the link in the opening post. The Title is below. I excerpted the relevant sections. I had the paper in my arsenal but it has been several years since I last read it. As I said, I am glad you brought it up, re-reading, I have a new set of eyes on it. It is very pertinent. This is the only study that carries that indepth of a study between Yemenese and Eastern Africans. It is very relevant and there none like it.
The other paper is outdated- using enzyme comparison.
===
This is relevant --
Ethiopian Mitochondrial DNA Heritage: Tracking Gene Flow Across and Around the Gate of Tears- Toomas Kivisild,1(2004)
=====
This is outdated - Different genetic components in the Ethiopian population, identified by mtDNA and Y-chromosome polymorphisms.(1998)
Passarino G1, Semino O, Quintana
=====
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Aug 20, 2014 16:52:39 GMT -5
on hg-H and X. All can be found here on ESR or ES.
Here is a quick snap-shot of hg-X. Thread is on ESR.
=====
Origin and Diffusion of mtDNA Haplogroup X
Maere Reidla,(2003)
A maximum parsimony tree of 21 complete mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) sequences belonging to haplogroup X
and the survey of the haplogroup-associated polymorphisms in 13,589 mtDNAs from Eurasia and Africa revealed
that haplogroup X is subdivided into two major branches, here defined as “X1” and “X2.” The first is restricted
to the populations of North and East Africa and the Near East, whereas X2 encompasses all X mtDNAs from
Europe, western and Central Asia, Siberia, and the great majority of the Near East, as well as some North African
samples. Subhaplogroup X1 diversity indicates an early coalescence time, whereas X2 has apparently undergone
a more recent population expansion in Eurasia, most likely around or after the last glacial maximum. It is notable
that X2 includes the two complete Native American X sequences that constitute the distinctive X2a clade, a clade
that lacks close relatives in the entire Old World, including Siberia. The position of X2a in the phylogenetic tree
suggests an early split from the other X2 clades, likely at the very beginning of their expansion and spread from
the Near East.
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Aug 20, 2014 16:57:23 GMT -5
All the answers to your questions can be found here on ESR...sounds like sale pitch? wink. But seriously, most poster here are knowledgeable in their own subject. eg Anthropology - Z-man, Different culture-Anansi, archeology - Sage, mid-east cultures - Jari etc
tell your friends...and enemies(wink)
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Post by anastasiaescrava on Aug 20, 2014 17:40:02 GMT -5
??. You posted the link in the opening post. The Title is below. I excerpted the relevant sections. I had the paper in my arsenal but it has been several years since I last read it. As I said, I am glad you brought it up, re-reading, I have a new set of eyes on it. It is very pertinent. This is the only study that carries that indepth of a study between Yemenese and Eastern Africans. It is very relevant and there none like it. The other paper is outdated- using enzyme comparison. === This is relevant --Ethiopian Mitochondrial DNA Heritage: Tracking Gene Flow Across and Around the Gate of Tears- Toomas Kivisild,1(2004) ===== This is outdated - Different genetic components in the Ethiopian population, identified by mtDNA and Y-chromosome polymorphisms.(1998) Passarino G1, Semino O, Quintana ===== I'm not trying to pester you, but what evidence do you have that enymze comparison is outdated?
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Post by anastasiaescrava on Aug 20, 2014 23:36:22 GMT -5
^^^^ I messed that up... What I meant to say is how do you know that enzyme comparison is outdated?
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Aug 21, 2014 6:49:52 GMT -5
You still did not get it right. It is difficult to answer. That is like asking how do I know a 1964 Ford Mustang is outdated when they make a 2014 Ford Mustang after all they both use oil and gas. Remember at one time they used blood group and antigens to "separate" the "races'. Like O, A, AB, Rh. They no longer use it.
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Post by anastasiaescrava on Aug 21, 2014 8:23:48 GMT -5
She called me an idiot and posted this Basically she cut and pasted, when I posted the info to refute it, she couldn't debunk it and called it invalid. I pointed out I got the info from the same website and she couldn't post one rebuttal.
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Post by truthteacher2007 on Aug 21, 2014 14:25:45 GMT -5
She called me an idiot and posted this Basically she cut and pasted, when I posted the info to refute it, she couldn't debunk it and called it invalid. I pointed out I got the info from the same website and she couldn't post one rebuttal. So basically what is she trying to say?
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rivertemz
Scribe
The thirst for Knowledge is strong in this one
Posts: 211
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Post by rivertemz on Aug 21, 2014 16:15:27 GMT -5
She called me an idiot and posted this Basically she cut and pasted, when I posted the info to refute it, she couldn't debunk it and called it invalid. I pointed out I got the info from the same website and she couldn't post one rebuttal. Yh what was her argument ?
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Post by anastasiaescrava on Aug 21, 2014 17:53:40 GMT -5
She called me an idiot and posted this Basically she cut and pasted, when I posted the info to refute it, she couldn't debunk it and called it invalid. I pointed out I got the info from the same website and she couldn't post one rebuttal. So basically what is she trying to say? The argument she put forth was that East Africans were heavily mixed, they have Caucasoid features, blah, blah, blah the usual...
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