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Post by truthteacher2007 on Mar 27, 2015 17:37:40 GMT -5
For quite a while I've been trying to understand the origins of haplotypes. For a tayman, (which most of us are), the information is exterremly confusing. For example a few years ago I was trying to find information on the origins of haplotype E as it is the dominant haplotype in Africa. However, I've heard people saying that it is Asiatic in origin, while others say it's East African. I thought it would be simple enough to just back track what came before E, but that's not the case.
I was trying to look up info on E1b1b. What I found was a whole lot of talk about E1, E2, E3, then all the M this and M that. What in the world does this mean? Can someone describe this in layman's terms and what all these letters and numbers mean?
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Post by anansi on Mar 27, 2015 22:22:23 GMT -5
For quite a while I've been trying to understand the origins of haplotypes. For a tayman, (which most of us are), the information is exterremly confusing. For example a few years ago I was trying to find information on the origins of haplotype E as it is the dominant haplotype in Africa. However, I've heard people saying that it is Asiatic in origin, while others say it's East African. I thought it would be simple enough to just back track what came before E, but that's not the case. I was trying to look up info on E1b1b. What I found was a whole lot of talk about E1, E2, E3, then all the M this and M that. What in the world does this mean? Can someone describe this in layman's terms and what all these letters and numbers mean? E and M is the same thing I don't know why they switched the lettering, but E would be the ultimate granddaddy the founder and everyone after that would be sons and siblings, but yeah E or M originated in Africa without it there would virtually be no Africans, now E1b1 is found in ajecent regions in what should really be Africa extension,the Levant and Arabia where it petered out at the edges of the Zargos mts  Zargos Mts stretching from Turkey to the Persian Gulf this is where other Black and Lite skinned Eurasians met Africans. the joke about E or M coming from Eurasia is simply because it's found there and this is where some folks Negrophobia kicks in because it suggest that not only Africans were responsible for the rise of Kmt but for much of what was to become civilization in that part of the world or at the very least share the glory so to speak.  Btw this correlates quite well with the spread of the African language called Afrsian. See the blue line that's the Zargos Mts where E petersout and also the African language phylum notice it stopped with the Elamites.  Off course there are deeper clydes but Es are just the latest out of Africa flow starting within the last 15-10kyrs B.C . For more deeper info Xyyman,Zarahan and Al-Takruri can chip in.  |
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Post by truthteacher2007 on Mar 28, 2015 11:49:22 GMT -5
For quite a while I've been trying to understand the origins of haplotypes. For a tayman, (which most of us are), the information is exterremly confusing. For example a few years ago I was trying to find information on the origins of haplotype E as it is the dominant haplotype in Africa. However, I've heard people saying that it is Asiatic in origin, while others say it's East African. I thought it would be simple enough to just back track what came before E, but that's not the case. I was trying to look up info on E1b1b. What I found was a whole lot of talk about E1, E2, E3, then all the M this and M that. What in the world does this mean? Can someone describe this in layman's terms and what all these letters and numbers mean? E and M is the same thing I don't know why they switched the lettering, but E would be the ultimate granddaddy the founder and everyone after that would be sons and siblings, but yeah E or M originated in Africa without it there would virtually be no Africans, now E1b1 is found in ajecent regions in what should really be Africa extension,the Levant and Arabia where it petered out at the edges of the Zargos mts Zargos Mts stretching from Turkey to the Persian Gulf this is where other Black and Lite skinned Eurasians met Africans. the joke about E or M coming from Eurasia is simply because it's found there and this is where some folks Negrophobia kicks in because it suggest that not only Africans were responsible for the rise of Kmt but for much of what was to become civilization in that part of the world or at the very least share the glory so to speak. Btw this correlates quite well with the spread of the African language called Afrsian. See the blue line that's the Zargos Mts where E petersout and also the African language phylum notice it stopped with the Elamites. Off course there are deeper clydes but Es are just the latest out of Africa flow starting within the last 15-10kyrs B.C . For more deeper info Xyyman,Zarahan and Al-Takruri can chip in. Thank you so much. So just be be clear, is there a parent of E/M? or is that pretty much ground zero? Also what is down stream from E1b1b? Any more indepth explanations would be greatly appreciated. I think I'll cast a spell for it: Xyyman,Zarahan and Al-Takruri I SUMMONS THEE, BRING KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM, MAKE STUPIDITY FLEE! STRAIGHTEN OUT CONFUSING JARGON OF ANTHROPOLOGICAL WORDS AND PUT IT ALL IN LAYMAN'S TERMS! |
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 28, 2015 12:21:58 GMT -5
When I have more time I will get more indepth. But A basic knowledge of High School Biology will give you a head start. But you are confusing the terms. E is a male DNA haplogroup NOT a haplotype. Keep in mind a DNA chain is essentially a line of code eg A-G-T-C-T-T-C etc. Any position is called a nucleotide, eg T and C are nucleotides. Blocks/chunks of code are called haplotypes, blocks of haploypes are typically called haplogroups. Blacks of haplogroups are calles genes. They are interconnected. :Letters A - T(not the same above- see picture below) are the major haplogroups. And each major haplogroup is further divided into sub-haplogroups or sub-clades. What can be confusing is labeling are interchangeable and throw some readers off. Especially the newbies. It took me close to 4 years to be where I am at. So , yeah, it is not easy. So if you expect to get this straigth with one pass..not going to happen. The good thing is you can build off of the previous knowledge. There are a few introductory threads posted on ESR but here is something to start with. But my advice is get in the game. I told Mike(of ES), a smart guy, that about 4 years ago. That is where the war is at right now. Get in..so you cannot be duped and lied to. Here is a start  |
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 28, 2015 12:26:45 GMT -5
A, B,E, J, Dominates in Africa. But other haplogroups are also found in Africa like C, D, G, R1b. But keep in mind when you see these letters for haplogroups it may be also be female because the female HG Tree have similar labeling. eg MtDNA M is female and the same M is used for male. So be aware of the context. M you used above needs to be clarified. Male or female? |
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 28, 2015 12:32:47 GMT -5
YDNA (male) hg-E is found throughout Africa(North to South) but also in Southern Europe, Arabia, and smaller amounts in North Europe, and Asia.  This is reflective of recent African presence and migration to other lands outside Africa. Keep in mind some, a few people, belive , we, hg-E, is Asian not African? Why?, because in the eraly days of DNA testing(1990s) the precursor to hg-E like hg-D was NOT observed IN Africa. So some old text will talk about "back-migration" of hg-E to Africa. But these studies and belief is outdated. |
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Post by truthteacher2007 on Mar 28, 2015 18:12:35 GMT -5
YDNA (male) hg-E is found throughout Africa(North to South) but also in Southern Europe, Arabia, and smaller amounts in North Europe, and Asia. This is reflective of recent African presence and migration to other lands outside Africa. Keep in mind some, a few people, belive , we, hg-E, is Asian not African? Why?, because in the eraly days of DNA testing(1990s) the precursor to hg-E like hg-D was NOT observed IN Africa. So some old text will talk about "back-migration" of hg-E to Africa. But these studies and belief is outdated. Thank you so much. This really helped a lot and the explanation of the difference between haplotypes and haplogroups was really key. So that was a really good explanation about the origins of E. It was really confusing because I would see some sources saying it was Asian and others stating emphatically that it is African. Question, can you provide any recent studies that point to it being African in origin as versus Asian? Something that I was thinking to myself.... Given the sheer size of Africa and the dominance, it didn't seem logical that it originated in Asia. That would imply that the majority of Africans are admixed and that makes no sense. I saw one study that said that a sub clade of E, don't remember which, (it was one of them numbers and letters things, think it had a V in there...), anyway, it said that the parent subclade wasn't found in the horn, but was found in Arabia, which lead them to say that subclade represented a back migration. But here's the thing... People will use this to explain why horners look the way they do, meaning, they're admixed with some sort of narrow featured group, because narrow features aren't "African". But isn't it just as plausable that narrow featured Africans migrated into Arabia and that because they were in a similar climate zone, they didn't change physically even though they experienced a mutation in their gene sequence giving birh to a new sub clade? Other question. You said J is one of the haplogroups found in Africa. Would this be the J1 and J2? Now I know J2 is a back migration because that is believed to have come in with the Islamic expansion. Would J1 be a prehistoric migration of South West Asians? It wouldn't seem an impossability given that the green Sahara would have also made it possible and attractive to pastoral Asiatics just as it attracted southern Africans. What's your take? |
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