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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 17:11:25 GMT -5
"People of European descent display the widest variation in pigmentation traits, such as iris (eye) and hair colouration, in the world. In particular, eye colour variation is nearly restricted to people of (at least partial) European descent. Eye colour categories here often concern blue, brown and intermediate (green, etc.). In the rest of the world, people tend to have brown eye colour." - Walsh, S., A. Wollstein, F. Liu, U. Chakravarthy, M. Rahu, J.H. Seland, G. Soubrane, L. Tomazzoli, F. Topouzis, J.R. Vingerling, J. Vioque, A.E. Fletcher, K.N. Ballantyne, and M. Kayser. (2012). DNA-based eye colour prediction across Europe with the IrisPlex system, Forensic Science International: Genetics, 6, 330–340
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 17:17:59 GMT -5
"The blue iris phenotype characteristic of the HERC2 rs12913832 G allele, for example, is almost completely restricted to western Eurasia and some adjacent regions, its descendant populations, and populations containing European admixture." - Wilde, Sandra, et al. "Direct evidence for positive selection of skin, hair, and eye pigmentation in Europeans during the last 5,000 y." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 111.13 (2014): 4832-4837 www.pnas.org/content/111/13/4832.short
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 17:24:46 GMT -5
Derived allele (G) frequency for blue eyes (surveyed as part of the Human Genome Diversity Project). As you can see, the frequency is 0% for Sub-Saharan Africa and East Asia.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 17:42:24 GMT -5
@ Zaharan,
Do you have the honesty to retract your statement "unadmixed African have blue eyes"?.
The mutation (rs12913832 G) for blue eyes occurred in West Eurasia/Europe, and the frequency for the allele is 0% in Africa unless you consider modern admixed Maghreb populations and coastal north Egyptians. It also has a 0% frequency in East Asia.
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 31, 2016 19:02:04 GMT -5
You do know that those mathematical modeling are now obsolete. We now have aDNA from ACTUAL ancient Europeans. Statistical modeling is now obsolete. Have you read the latest from Lazaridis et al and Mathesien et al. You do know Neolithics brought in light skin genes INTO Europe beginning about 5000BC? You do know that Paleothic "Europeans" with blues are NOT related to modern Europeans. Paleolithic Europeans were essentially related to old world Australians/Dravidians? If you want discuss you first must read, understand and be able to discuss the subject. You do know that Africans DO carry these SNPs depending on the database used? You do know that Africans carry the MOST Varibility around those SNPs? Significance?
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 31, 2016 19:02:34 GMT -5
So much for your bait thread.
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 31, 2016 19:04:02 GMT -5
You do know modern Europeans are a subset of Africans?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 19:22:00 GMT -5
@ xyyman There are mutations (derived alleles) that arose outside of Africa. rs12913832 mutated in Europe, and His615Arg mutated in East Asia. Take a look at the frequency of the derived His615Arg allele - All that blue is 0% frequency. Africans don't carry this derived allele. I'm simply pointing out the fact brown eyed turned blue in Europe. Hence only Europeans or people with partial European ancestry carry the derived allele. By contrast, the derived HERC2 (OCA2) allele is absent from African and East Asian populations, and appears at high frequency only in Western and Northern Europe (Figure 6a, 6b). journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1003372
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 19:42:45 GMT -5
You do know that those mathematical modeling are now obsolete. We now have aDNA from ACTUAL ancient Europeans. Statistical modeling is now obsolete. Have you read the latest from Lazaridis et al and Mathesien et al. You do know Neolithics brought in light skin genes INTO Europe beginning about 5000BC? You do know that Paleothic "Europeans" with blues are NOT related to modern Europeans. Paleolithic Europeans were essentially related to old world Australians/Dravidians? If you want discuss you first must read, understand and be able to discuss the subject. You do know that Africans DO carry these SNPs depending on the database used? You do know that Africans carry the MOST Varibility around those SNPs? Significance?
The genome of K14 from Russia is closest to modern Central Asian populations. Take a look at the PCA I showed in the other thread. And modern Europeans still have close genetic affinity to K14 - they are far closer than African and East Asian populations.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 19:56:40 GMT -5
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Mar 31, 2016 22:30:16 GMT -5
Listen. I don't really get caught up in meaningless chatter.
1. I said, depending on the database. HAPMAP, HGDP, 1000GENOME etc. 2. Did you read the Bantu with blue eye thread? Did you understand the statement by Wasserman et al? 3. Do you understand the significance of looking upstream of HERC2 and APBA2 and SLC24A5 in ALL world populations? 4. Did YOU read and UNDERSTAND the KOS14 study? KOS14 is Eurasian, yes, but he is a Dravidian. Did you look at the charts.
If you cannot discuss these point and intent on repeating manic dogma you are talking to the wrong person. I don't discuss this stuff with people who DO NOT understand the data but instead prefer repeat parts of a study without understanding the CONTEXT. KOS14 is a Dravidian. If you do not know why don't waste my time. Talk to someone else. The data is right here on this site.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 0:10:38 GMT -5
@ xyyman, Bantu, Mbuti pygmy, San, and Yoruba etc from HGDP are all 0% (look above). I've since found a study which samples more populations, but the derived HERC2 rs12913832 allele G is still absent from southern latitude Africa. This isn't down to lack of samples, but the fact Africans do not carry the derived allele for blue eyes, only excluding modern admixed populations in the north like Berbers. "We report that the blue-eye associated alleles at all three haplotypes were found at high frequencies in Europe; however, one is restricted to Europe and surrounding regions, while the other two are found at moderate to high frequencies throughout the world. We also observed that the derived allele of rs1800414 is essentially limited to East Asia where it is found at high frequencies." - Donnelly, Michael P., Peristera Paschou, Elena Grigorenko, David Gurwitz, Csaba Barta, Ru-Band Lu, Olga V. Zhukova et al. "A global view of the OCA2-HERC2 region and pigmentation." Human genetics 131, no. 5 (2012): 683-696
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 0:28:40 GMT -5
@ xyyman, bantus with blue eyes... this was solved a long time ago
Soussi, J. (1965). "The incidence of blue eyes in South African Negroes with special reference to the Waardenburg syndrome". S Afr J Med Sci. 61: 243-251
Note these South African bantus are not carrying the HERC2 rs12913832 allele G because they are included in the above studies, where they score 0%. So the answer is a medical anomaly such as a disease.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Apr 1, 2016 3:35:33 GMT -5
Isn't it obvious Euros are the most variable in eye and hair color ?
I have mever met a blond & blue tropical African.
I can't count the number of b&b temperate Euros.
Pick any Euro country then pick any area of tropical Africa of similar land area and compare the number of hair & eye colors.
The common occurrence is what it is.
Blue and or grey eyes in healthy 10 - 50 year old trop Afrs is rare enough to be a miracle as is blond or orange-red hair.
Hebrews saw blond hair as a sign of leprosy.
AEs reportedly murdered people on occasion simply because of red hair, they thought it was 'devilish.'
There is no tropical African ethnic group or pre-col nation characterized by blue\grey eyes or blonde\orange-red hair but Europe has both and I've met such among Slavs, Greeks, Italians, Spaniards and even Maltese.
I don't understand you blacks with this 'be like' complex or who are constantly measuring yourselves with a white Euro metre stick. Free your minds.
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Post by djoser-xyyman on Apr 1, 2016 4:48:08 GMT -5
You don't get it Sage. it is not about "be like". It about "where" it came from. These frequency is highest IN Europeans, yes. Does it exist in Africa...YES!! and not due to admixture. This is what the genetics data show. get it? That is my point.
I am not sure why the member was deleted....so soon. He just cited outdated stuff.
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