Hannibal depicted as black in History Channel series

[africurious]

I'm really surprised the history channel is depicting Hannibal of Carthage as black in its new documentary series. While that's a good change I'm wondering how they depict the carthaginians in general--will they continue with the whitewashing? It's hard to tell from the preview videos cuz some of the people depicted in Hannibal's army are allies he picked up in Europe when he launched his land invasion of Rome.

[nebsen]

Jun 12, 2016 12:35:24 GMT -5 africurious said:

I'm really surprised the history channel is depicting Hannibal of Carthage as black in its new documentary series. While that's a good change I'm wondering how they depict the carthaginians in general--will they continue with the whitewashing? It's hard to tell from the preview videos cuz some of the people depicted in Hannibal's army are allies he picked up in Europe when he launched his land invasion of Rome.

Wow, I'm stunned ! I have always given The History Channels a thumbs down when it come to accurately depicting Africans in their right context in ancient history , such as Hannibal. This is a sea change for this channel, which I believe is under National Geographic, which is known to be down right racist when it comes to Africa & Africans. Lets hope this is a beginning not only for the History Channel but for feature films in the near future which is discussed in post How Many Slave Narratives is Enough ? latest post concerning what Black actor could play the lead in a film about the Taharka of the 25th dynasty . Thanks for the post

[anansi]

I have been following the bruhaha for a couple of days now, the fact is Hannibal's phenotype is up for grabs, there are a number of images floating around that purports to be of him, but non are definitive not even the famous bust, however and what ever he actually looked like he is an African, and we generally do not go into racial purity type B/S like White race addicts, some of us have lately taken the bait by white race addicts perhaps and subconsciously used it to strike back at our opponents when they say B/S that black or African accomplishments are due to white blood read dna , it's just not our thing generally speaking and this is despite shadism that still plagues us both in the diaspora and in the mother land, it was always clear that fam is fam.. anyone of the following could be in the family of Hannibal or look like him without us missing a beat.

Percy Sutten Malcolm X's and family's lawyer and businessman, a leader in Newyork's Black political and business life also a Tuskegee Airman,and self identified Blackman.
[img8/Thurgood-Marshall.jpg" alt=" "]
Thrugood Marshall supreme court judge and civil rights activist..Tuskegee Airman and self Id Blackman.

Lena Horn actress and diva, civil rights activist and self I.d black woman.

Gk Butterfield  congressman current self Id as Black.


Adam Clayton Powell congresman Harlem deep black pride and took no nonsense from race addicted white colleagues and even presidents.

In the same vain Septemius Servus an African and Roman emperor along with his two no good bratty kids that would doom his dynasty

Hannibal??

Hannibal?? 
Whatever he actually looked like the fact remains, the issue of so-called purity is rather alien to most black folks, the producer of the doc had every right to show him thus..white race addicts can have a seat somewhere else.
 

[nebsen]

Anansi, than the larger question for me is how did the people of Carthage look ? Did they look like African Americans, or Brazilians, a mixture of different hues while still being African ? I remember the film" Gladiator" in the battle scene in the Colosseum, the Carthaginians were depicted as Black, this was the first that I had seen in a film or any where else where Carthaginians were shown as black & African .

[anansi]

Jun 12, 2016 21:44:42 GMT -5 nebsen said:

Anansi, than the larger question for me is how did the people of Carthage look ? Did they look like African Americans, or Brazilians, a mixture of different hues while still being African ? I remember the film" Gladiator" in the battle scene in the Colosseum, the Carthaginians were depicted as Black, this was the first that I had seen in a film or any where else where Carthaginians were shown as black & African .

From what I gather they were in all likely hood multi hued even before they leave the Levant to become Carthaginians but very heavily Africans so a an AA/Brazilian image is quite appropriate, the Beazely signet rings and other art works bares this out.

[africurious]

Jun 12, 2016 22:06:09 GMT -5 anansi said:

Jun 12, 2016 21:44:42 GMT -5 nebsen said:

Anansi, than the larger question for me is how did the people of Carthage look ? Did they look like African Americans, or Brazilians, a mixture of different hues while still being African ? I remember the film" Gladiator" in the battle scene in the Colosseum, the Carthaginians were depicted as Black, this was the first that I had seen in a film or any where else where Carthaginians were shown as black & African .

From what I gather they were in all likely hood multi hued even before they leave the Levant to become Carthaginians but very heavily Africans so a an AA/Brazilian image is quite appropriate, the Beazely signet rings and other art works bares this out.

There has been too much emphasis on what Phoenicians supposedly looked like. Carthaginians aren't the same as Phoenicians. Carthage was founded by Phoenicians yes but the bulk of the population were native Africans. All these Africans who lived in or near carthage such as the afer, numidians, getules, garamantes, massaesyli, etc were described in Latin and Greek docs as black. Hannibal was referred to by the Romans as Afer (the African people who lived around Carthage's capital and from whom Africa got its name). So the Romans didn't even view him as a phoenician. The Phoenician element has been overemphasized cuz when the study of history was being formalized in the 1800s racism was rampant and Hannibal's/Carthage's glory needed to be assigned to "Semites" instead of African "Hamites" as the racists viewed things.

When skeletal remains of Carthaginian burials were examined by anthropologists Bertholon and Chantre they described the overwhelming majority as being "negroid" and this held true for both common and upper class Carthaginians. SOY Keita has called attention to their findings too. Even worse these anthropologists are from the late 1800s to early 1900s when scientific racism was still the rage and for skulls to be classified "negroid" they had to fit the "true negro" description which doesn't cover many Africans. So some of those Carthaginians whom they didn't label "negroid" were probably Africans as well.

Lastly, Carthaginians didn't speak Canaanite as Phoenicians did but Punic (and probably several African languages). Punic is likely a mix of Canaanite and 1 or more African languages.

When there's no record of what a historical figure looked like said figure should be depicted similar to the people from whom they came. In Hannibal's case that would be Africans.

[anansi]

Well I am of the opinion that they were carried broad featured African phenotype even before they leave for N.W Africa they sure carried their genetic stuff and certain writers did mentioned them as somewhat akin to Kushites
I almost forgot an imperfect essay I did concerning the connection.
Khart Haddast And Phoenica

And checkout the top registrar those are black and chocolate brown Phoenicians from the Levant prior to settlement in N.W Africa where they mixed with even more continental Africans.

[africurious]

Yea I definitely agree with you that the Phoenicians looked like Africans even before they went to NW Africa and mixed with the people there. The Phoenicians are nothing but descendants of E Africans who hopped across the street to live in the levant. (The Africanness of the inhabitants in the levant, Arabian peninsula and much of the Fertile Crescent up until the Bronze Age is a whoooole other bone I have to pick). But I'd like more focus to be given to the Africans who were already in the areas that became Carthage. And my spiel was more about getting out frustration than replying to what you said. I know you already know the deal.

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

Are you sure about that?

Jun 13, 2016 23:16:42 GMT -5 anansi said:

And checkout the top registrar those are black and chocolate brown Phoenicians from the Levant prior to settlement in N.W Africa where they mixed with even more continental Africans.

[anansi]

If the folks in the top registrar are not Levantines then I am in error.

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

Apr 10, 2010 12:30:42 GMT -5 jari said:

Apr 9, 2010 0:28:10 GMT -5 anansi said:

I got it from Jeri..I was curious because they seems to be dressed not in kalasiris, leopard or Panther skins. so I was wondering if they were Nehesi dressed as levantines or locals.

Sorry about the delay in posting, yes I was the 1st to post this thread and my research led me to the images being a representation of the tomb of Rekemhire ... (TT100) . . .

Rekhmire was a vizier, the highest ranking official under the pharaohs Tuthmosis III and Amenophis II during a period when Egypt's empire stretched to its farthest extent and was at the peek of her prosperity.
. . . .

... on the northwestern wall there are scenes depicting the tributes paid to Egypt by foreign countries. The tributes are divided into five groups of items, which are then recorded by scribes. These groups include:

* The people of Punt who bring incense trees, baboons, monkeys and animal hides.

* The people of Kefti (probably Crete), carrying pots and cubs.

* The Kushites (Nubians) who bring animals of equatorial Africa (giraffes, leopards, baboons, monkeys and dogs), offering ivory, animal hides and gold.

* The Retenus or Syrians, who bring pots, carts and weapons, along with various animals (horses, a bear and an elephant).

* The fifth group consists of people from various lands.

. . . .

[anansi]

Jun 14, 2016 23:58:01 GMT -5 Tukuler al~Takruri said:

Apr 10, 2010 12:30:42 GMT -5 jari said:

Sorry about the delay in posting, yes I was the 1st to post this thread and my research led me to the images being a representation of the tomb of Rekemhire ... (TT100) . . .

Rekhmire was a vizier, the highest ranking official under the pharaohs Tuthmosis III and Amenophis II during a period when Egypt's empire stretched to its farthest extent and was at the peek of her prosperity.
. . . .

... on the northwestern wall there are scenes depicting the tributes paid to Egypt by foreign countries. The tributes are divided into five groups of items, which are then recorded by scribes. These groups include:

* The people of Punt who bring incense trees, baboons, monkeys and animal hides.

* The people of Kefti (probably Crete), carrying pots and cubs.

* The Kushites (Nubians) who bring animals of equatorial Africa (giraffes, leopards, baboons, monkeys and dogs), offering ivory, animal hides and gold.

* The Retenus or Syrians, who bring pots, carts and weapons, along with various animals (horses, a bear and an elephant).

* The fifth group consists of people from various lands.

. . . .

Well they could be Nahasi traders or descendants of them, because the Kemities viewed them as part of the lot,and although darker than the average Levantine they are dressed as the others ,this tells me that culturally/politically were deeply entrenched in Phoenician society and were nationally Phoenicians, not to mention that maybe it was they who pushed Nile Valley culture in the Levant, after all they were anciently the police and military force employed by the Kemetians to keep an eye on things for centuries, these would have kids with the local women a fact of life with military bases the world over.

Matter of fact you also hipped me/us to the possibility that the Andromeda legend may have been in the Levant as at least some of it's inhabitants were Ethiopians according to the Greeks and powerful enough to have their own kings.

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

All peoples south and east to southeast
of Egypt are Nehesu.

Interesting thing is both Punt (top row)
and Byblos (in Phoenicia, maybe repped
by one or two in the next to last row) are
called Ta Netjer (God's Land) in AE writings.

The mural's hieroglyphics tells us who's
who and so cuts off speculating on it.

And, on the for real side, I got not even a
grain of sand vs the whole beach doubt;
Joppa is Yaffa is Tel Aviv like them Greco
Latin writers laid it down, century after
century.

Where there UpEgy, Wawat, Kush, Punt,
Irem, Nemii in the Levant? For sure! Did
they integrate into Levant society with
its own indigenous native blacks? Why
not!


Moderns must see contemporary Africans
whenever seeing Levantine etc blacks. But
the ancient context applies to ancient
subjects and the ancients agree on
Eastern and Western Blacks, some
related and some not.

It's unnecessary to introduce Nile blacks
where there are already Levantine blacks,
two or three are in the 4th row (where the
artist is more interested in the north most
Syrians Retjenu as mentioned in hieroglyphs
rather than the familiar nearer Syrians whom
Egypt hegemonized way back in Dyn 0.

Jun 15, 2016 2:27:25 GMT -5 anansi said:

Jun 14, 2016 23:58:01 GMT -5 Tukuler al~Takruri said:

Well they could be Nahasi traders or descendants of them, because the Kemities viewed them as part of the lot,and although darker than the average Levantine they are dressed as the others ,this tells me that culturally/politically were deeply entrenched in Phoenician society and were nationally Phoenicians, not to mention that maybe it was they who pushed Nile Valley culture in the Levant, after all they were anciently the police and military force employed by the Kemetians to keep an eye on things for centuries, these would have kids with the local women a fact of life with military bases the world over.

Matter of fact you also hipped me/us to the possibility that the Andromeda legend may have been in the Levant as at least some of it's inhabitants were Ethiopians according to the Greeks and powerful enough to have their own kings.

[anansi]

To round things off a bit have a look at this paper.
The History of African Gene Flow into Southern Europeans, Levantines, and Jews

ntroduction

The history of human migrations from Africa into West Eurasia is only partially understood. Archaeological and genetic evidence indicate that anatomically modern humans arrived in Europe from an African source at least 45,000 years ago, following the initial dispersal out of Africa [1], [2]. However, it is known that Southern Europeans and Levantines (people from modern day Palestine, Israel, Syria and Jordan) have also inherited genetic material of African origin due to subsequent migrations. One line of evidence comes from Y-chromosome [3] and mitochondrial DNA analyses [4]–[6]. These have identified haplogroups that are characteristic of sub-Saharan Africans in Southern Europeans and Levantines but not in Northern Europeans [7]. Auton et al. [8] presented nuclear genome-based evidence for sharing of sub-Saharan African ancestry in some West Eurasians, by identifying a North-South gradient of haplotype sharing between Europeans and sub-Saharan Africans, with the highest proportion of haplotype sharing observed in south/southwestern Europe. However, none of these studies used genome-wide data to estimate the proportion of African ancestry in West Eurasians, or the date(s) of mixture. Throughout this report, we use “African mixture” to refer to gene flow into West Eurasians since the divergence of the latter from East Asians; thus, we are not referring to the much older dispersal out of Africa ∼45,000 years ago but instead to migrations that have occurred since that time.
journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1001373

Now understand that what being talked about is so-called Sub Saharan dna and not just African dna.

The finding of sub-Saharan African ancestry in West Eurasians predicts that there will be a signature of admixture LD in the populations that experienced this mixture. That is, there will be LD between all markers that are highly differentiated between the two ancestral populations and the allele will be strongly correlated to the local ancestry [23]. Hence, there will be chromosomal segments of African ancestry with lengths that reflect the number of recombination events that have occurred since mixture, and thus can be used to estimate an admixture date. Figure 3 shows that this expected pattern is observed empirically in the decay of LD in four example West Eurasian populations, where we enhance the effects of admixture LD by weighting the SNP comparisons by frequency difference between the ancestral Africans (YRI) and ancestral West Eurasians (CEU). In the Southern European, Jewish and Levantine populations, this procedure produces clear evidence of admixture LD (Figure 3). However, Northern Europeans (Russians in Figure 3) do not show any evidence of African gene flow, consistent with the 4 Population and 3 Population Test results and Figure 1. Similar results are seen for other West Eurasian and Jewish populations that show evidence of mixture in the 4 Population Test.

[clouddesignc7]

WHAT UP alTakruri!!

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