Topic: Proof: how "stupid" W Africans are

[anansi]

Originally posted by Djehuti:


Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, The

03-31-1994

Black Africans Now the Most Highly Educated Group in British Society.

New census data from Britain makes life very difficult for the advocates of scientific racism.

RECENTLY, POLITICIANS, SCHOLARS, and social commentators in the United Kingdom were started to receive the results of a new census report on the academic standing of various ethnic groups in Britain.

Black Africans in the United Kingdom are now the most highly educated members of British society. According to British Census, over 26 percent of adult black Africans in the United Kingdom hold academic qualifications higher than "A" or college levels compared with only 13.4 percent for white adults in the U.K. In short, blacks in the U.K. with African origins are outperforming British whites by a ratio of two to one.

Probably the most striking fact to turn up in the census is that in college qualifications... "
static.highbeam.com/j/journalofblacksinhighereducationthe/march311994/blackafricansnowthemosthighlyeducatedgroupinbritis/index.html

And an update:

The 2001 Census (ONS, Crown Copyright 2003) showed 38.8% of all 16-74 year-old black Africans held higher qualifications, compared to a national average of 19.8%.


And in America!

www.nigerianmuse.com/20080526092132zg/nigeria-watch/education-for-nigerians/education-in-america-nigerians-education-pursuit-is-above-rest/

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For Woodlands resident David Olowokere, one of Nigeria's sons, having a master's degree in engineering just wasn't enough for his people back home. So he got a doctorate.

His wife, Shalewa Olowokere, a civil engineer, didn't stop at a bachelor's, either. She went for her master's.

The same obsession with education runs in the Udeh household in Sugar Land. Foluke Udeh and her husband, Nduka, both have master's degrees. Anything less, she reckons, would have amounted to failure.

"If you see an average Nigerian family, everybody has a college degree these days," said Udeh, 32, a physical therapist at Memorial Hermann-Texas Medical Center. "But a post-graduate degree, that's like pride for the family."

Nigerian immigrants have the highest levels of education in this city and the nation, surpassing whites and Asians, according to Census data bolstered by an analysis of 13 annual Houston-area surveys conducted by Rice University.

Although they make up a tiny portion of the U.S. population, a whopping 17 percent of all Nigerians in this country held master's degrees while 4 percent had a doctorate, according to the 2006 American Community Survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau. In addition, 37 percent had bachelor's degrees.

In comparison
To put those numbers in perspective, 8 percent of the white population in the U.S. had master's degrees, according to the Census survey. And 1 percent held doctorates. About 19 percent of white residents had bachelor's degrees. Asians come closer to the Nigerians with 12 percent holding master's degrees and 3 percent having doctorates.
The Nigerian numbers are "strikingly high," said Roderick Harrison, demographer at the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, a Washington, D.C., think tank that specializes in researching black issues. "There is no doubt that these are highly educated professionals who are probably working in the petrochemical, medical and business sectors in Houston."

Harrison analyzed the census data for the Houston Chronicle.

Stephen Klineberg, a sociologist at Rice University who conducts the annual Houston Area Survey, suspects the percentage of Nigerian immigrants with post-graduate degrees is higher than Census data shows.

Of all the Nigerian immigrants he reached in his random phone surveys 1994 through 2007 — 45 households total — Klineberg said 40 percent of the Nigerians said they had post-graduate degrees.

"These are higher levels of educational attainment than were found in any other ... community," Klineberg said.

There are more than 12,000 Nigerians in Houston, according to the latest Census data, a figure sociologists and Nigerian community leaders say is a gross undercount. They believe the number to be closer to 100,000.


Staying in school
The reasons Nigerians have more post-graduate degrees than any other racial or ethnic group are largely due to Nigerian society's emphasis on mandatory and free education. Once immigrating to this country, practical matters of immigration laws get in the way.
The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 made it easier for Africans to enter the U.S., but mostly as students or highly skilled professionals — not through family sponsorships, Klineberg said.

So many Africans pursue higher levels of education as an unintended consequence of navigating the tricky minefield of immigration, said Amadu Jacky Kaba, an associate professor at Seton Hall University in South Orange, N.J., who has done research on African immigrants in the U.S.

"In a way, it's a Catch-22 — because of immigration laws you are forced to remain in school, but then the funny thing is you end up getting your doctorate at the age of 29," Kaba said. "If you stay in school, immigration will leave you alone."

Although Kaba, who teaches Africana Studies, is not from Nigeria (he is Liberian), he said he, too, found himself pursuing a master's and then a doctorate to remain in this country legally.

But not all Africans have to go this route. Some say their motivation is driven by their desire to overcome being a double minority: black and African.

Take Oluyinka Olutoye, 41, associate professor of pediatric surgery at Baylor College of Medicine. He came to this country already as a medical doctor but decided to pursue his doctorate in anatomy to help set himself apart.

"Being black, you are already at a disadvantage," said Olutoye, whose wife, Toyin Olutoye, is an anesthesiologist at Baylor. "You really need to excel far above if you want to be considered for anything in this country."


Family expectations
All this talk of education creates high expectations for children of Nigerian immigrants. The eldest child of David Olowokere, chairman of the engineering technologies department at Texas Southern University, for example, is already working on her master's degree in public health in Atlanta; the middle child is pursuing a bachelor's in pre-medicine. His youngest, a son, attends The Woodlands High School. He already has aspirations to go into engineering, just like his parents, Olowokere beams.
"The goal is for them to do as good as us — if not better," he said.

Oluyinka Olutoye put it another way.

"The typical saying in a Nigerian household is that the best inheritance that a parent can give you is not jewelry or cash or material things, it is a good education," he said. "It is expected."
Posts: 8010 | From: the Tekrur in the Western Sahel |
kdolo

Member # 21830

Rate Member Icon 1 posted 24 March, 2015 08:52 PM
....so why cant these Africans do the same in their own countries....?

Why go to Europe or America ??

(Also dont forget about pre-selection)
Posts: 2818
Tukuler

Member # 19944

Member Rated 10 posted 24 March, 2015 08:55 PM
They're not stupid abroad
so they're not stupid at home

But how would you know
chasing black fantasies
leaves little time to
learn about Africa and Africans

I asked you tell us about
the Djuka of Srnan and I
got a rock instead.

Dare I ask you to tell us about Nigeria?
Posts: 3121 | From: the Tekrur bordering Senegal & Mauritania.
Tukuler


Member # 19944

-
Posts: 3121 | From: the Tekrur bordering Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011 | IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kdolo
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Member
Member # 21830

Rate Member Icon 1 posted 24 March, 2015 10:08 PM Profile for kdolo Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote
Preselection.
Posts: 2818
Tukuler

Member # 19944

How three students created Nigeria's online jobs giant

www.bbc.com/news/business-29013286

Three students had time on their hands in the summer of 2009 when their university lecturers in Nigeria went on strike.

Instead of slacking off, Ayodeji Adewunmi, Olalekan Olude and Opeyemi Awoyemi started an online job search company.

Five years later their start-up, Jobberman, has got a multi-million dollar valuation, employs 125 people, and is still growing.

While Nigeria is Africa's largest economy it still has massive unemployment problems, in particular among young people who are also more likely to be connected to the internet.

Jobberman has become the single largest job placement website in sub-Saharan Africa, helping over 35,000 people find jobs within the last two years.

The number of companies using the site to find employees has grown from about 40 in 2009 to some 35,000 today.
Posts: 3121 | From: the Tekrur bordering Senegal & Mauritania

Member Rated:1 posted 24 March, 2015 10:47 PM
Goes back over 20 years

Theodore Cross
Black Africans Now the Most Highly Educated Group in British Society.
Journal of Blacks in Higher Education, n3 p92-93 Spr 1994


A new census report reveals that black Africans are now the most highly educated members of British society, with over 26% holding academic qualifications higher than "A" or college levels, in comparison with only 13.4% for white adults in British society. (SLD)
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Tukuler
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5 Icon 1 posted 24 March, 2015 10:51 PM Profile for Tukuler Send New Private Message Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote
Yepper

Just as the RealHistoryWW.com
AncientHistorian1 Mike111 says

Africans are "abject stupid"
Africans "can't understand evidence"

is proven by the above entries.
Posts: 3121 | From: the Tekrur bordering Senegal & Mauritania | Registered: Dec 2011 | IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator,

[anansi]

Had to archive this here many people want challenge the intellectual capabilities of Africans and the descendants using education of example being too dumb to be educated..much thanks to sensei Al-Tekruri and Djehuti.
www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=011700

[zarahan]

Glad you made this thread.

[kel]

Black Africans Now the Most Highly Educated Group in British Society.

Read more: egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/2326/topic-proof-stupid-africans#ixzz51C2FqMD9


this is a problem.................not for Britain but for whatver countries these people come from.

[kel]

Black Africans Now the Most Highly Educated Group in British Society.

Read more: egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/2326/topic-proof-stupid-africans#ixzz51C2FqMD9


this is a problem.................not for Britain but for whatver countries these people come from.

[zarahan]

Brain drain may or may not be a problem depending on the country and the numbers.
In several countries there are not enough white collar jobs for college grads
to get. There is a surplus of people with secondary degrees at various levels for
whom there is no work. They are not eager to go do subsistence farming at poverty
level returns. Migration in this situation has several advantages:

1- Folk get to go to Western or other countries for more advanced training

2- If the migrants are working and earning outside, the remittances they send home
add to the well being of their families and the home country's overall economy


In fact some "Third World" countries have made a profitable business of exporting
skilled people, to reap the advantages above. Look at the Philippines and all those
Filipino nurses earning good money in the US, or India and all those engineers and
programmers doing likewise. Talent need not leave to be "exported." India has snapped
up a lot of white collar outsourced or "exported" from the West- jobs needing technology
skills for example- to the tune of 150 billion a year. This has slowed down in recent years
but it is still adding to the bottom line. There are of course some downsides to US
workers as part of this.

Africa can do the same if various nations organize like the Asian countries. If
they have a surplus, export those people and get them adding to the bottom line.
If the homeland needs more skilled workers as local economies expand, then cut back
on visas given for "export" so more skilled folk stay home. It has to be a well organized
program, including strong measures to curb illegal out-migration/visa overstays etc,
that might hurt the program.

[kel]

India and the Phillipines are sh@t hole nations.

This not a model for development.

Africans better get with the program. You have no where to go with your smartest people leaving and going to work for the opposition. The opposition is enhanced and the society that loses the smart is left in hands of the dum dums who inevitably run the place into the ground because they are dumb.

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

Dec 27, 2017 13:57:34 GMT -5 kel said:

Africans better get with the program. You have no where to go with your smartest people leaving and going to work for the opposition. The opposition is enhanced and the society that loses the smart is left in hands of the dum dums who inevitably run the place into the ground because they are dumb.

Our problem is we're
Head side down
Nyash side up.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=v77Phgdj5a8&app=desktop

[zarahan]

I see no point in having a surplus of educated young people who expect
white collar jobs and not enough of those jobs are available. They just
supposed to sit around talking bout fine points of "African socialism"?
Better surpluses go abroad, and start sending remittances home. This is a lot more
helpful to local economies and individual families, than yet another dismal
pool of unemployed or underemployed educated people scrambling for low end clerical
jobs in the public sector, where the slots go to "who you know" in any event.
Hell some countries can;t even pay their teachers or civil servants regularly.

Export of people, properly handled, is a legitimate development strategy.
Whites and Asians have being doing this profitably for decades. All those
millions of Italian immigrants to the US for example sent back cold cash that
helped their families and sparked economic growth back home. Japanese immigrants
to the US did likewise, with remittances in particular helping greatly in local growth.
The City of Hiroshima for example benefited greatly from the many immigrant remittances.
The key is finding the right niches to deploy the exports and proper management of
the man or (woman) power.

And who says only "dum dums" supposedly "running the place into the ground"
would be the situation under a properly managed strategy? History suggests otherwise.
Hell Japan did pretty well over the years, as did Italy. For example, despite the loss of over
2 million people before 1924, Italy was producing some of the finest armaments and
high quality manufactured goods in the 1930s and 1940s. The Hiroshima prefecture
was a significant industrial and port zone for the military, its growth helped along by the many
immigrant remittances, an ironic outcome, for this may in part, have made the city
port more attractive as a target.

[kel]

"Better surpluses go abroad, and start sending remittances home. This is a lot more
helpful to local economies and individual families, than yet another dismal
pool of unemployed or underemployed educated people scrambling for low end clerical
jobs in the public sector, where the slots go to "who you know" in any event.
Hell some countries can;t even pay their teachers or civil servants regularly. "

Nonsense. All of the problems you identify are in part because of the surplus of dum dums. No system .... NONE .... is better off when the best run off.
There is a reason it is called brain drain and there is a reason America specializes in draining off the best of the so called developing world.
The brains are drained off leaving the societies in the hands of the dum dums who do what dum dums always do..............run whatever they touch into the ground. The most dangerous thing can  happen to a society is for the dummies to get their hands on the organs of state power.....catastrophe follows (see Venezuela and the bus driver president)

Italy another shithole country as far as "western " Europe is concerned. Japan ?? whatever. Japan does not and has never had as part of its development strategy export or allowed the export of its best and brightest. Actually quite the opposite. In the Meiji period they sent their best all over the world to studt and brought them all back and immediately placed them in positions of authority. The results alone tell you that Japan overall is a society run and controlled by its best brains and not the dum dums.

[zarahan]

Jan 8, 2018 1:30:30 GMT -5 kel said:

Nonsense. All of the problems you identify are in part because of the surplus of dum dums. No system .... NONE .... is better off when the best run off.
There is a reason it is called brain drain and there is a reason America specializes in draining off the best of the so called developing world.
The brains are drained off leaving the societies in the hands of the dum dums who do what dum dums always do..............run whatever they touch into the ground. The most dangerous thing can  happen to a society is for the dummies to get their hands on the organs of state power.....catastrophe follows (see Venezuela and the bus driver president)

Italy another shithole country as far as "western " Europe is concerned. Japan ?? whatever. Japan does not and has never had as part of its development strategy export or allowed the export of its best and brightest. Actually quite the opposite. In the Meiji period they sent their best all over the world to studt and brought them all back and immediately placed them in positions of authority. The results alone tell you that Japan overall is a society run and controlled by its best brains and not the dum dums.

Dude you don't know the actual situation on the ground and are only
proffering shaky personal opinion that is debunked by the actual facts.
You claim how Italy is this terrible shi*&^hole populated by left behind
"dum-dums", but this is nonsense. Italy weighs in within the Top 10 on both
GNP and GDP measures, which is BETTER THAN MOST OF WESTERN EUROPE. You don't
know what you are talking about. And in fact, Italy is one of the top industrial
countries in Europe and the world, from cars to aircraft, to luxury products, wines,
fashion etc. Again, this is AHEAD OF MOST OF WESTERN EUROPE. The facts on hand
debunk your claim. If being AHEAD of most of Western Europe and the world is "terrible"
and due to "dum dums" then, hell, the world needs more of such. You are misinformed
and have not taken the time to learn the actual facts.

www.scaruffi.com/politics/gnp.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)


As far as Japan I referred not to Japan as a whole but the district in Meiji and immediate
post Meiji Japan that exported heavily to the US and parts of elsewhere. The Hiroshima prefecture
in fact gained substantially from the remittances of migrants sent home.
Nor were the people leaving "dum dums." Japanese migrants from that area in
fact had a relatively high literacy rates, better than some European immigrant
groups. The people they left behind were not "dum dums" they too had the same
relatively high literacy inthe first place. As the credible history below points out:

"The immigrants were not from the poorest levels of Japanese society and were
probably more literate than most European Americans at the time."
ic.galegroup.com/ic/uhic/ReferenceDetailsPage/ReferenceDetailsWindow?failOverType=&query=&prodId=UHIC&windowstate=normal&contentModules=&display-query=&mode=view&displayGroupName=Reference&limiter=&currPage=&disableHighlighting=false&displayGroups=&sortBy=&search_within_results=&p=UHIC%3AWHIC&action=e&catId=&activityType=&scanId=&documentId=GALE%7CCX3436800032&source=Bookmark&u=ahsmedia&jsid=c43e0efe853b61f6d7f1cadddb615324

Other serious scholars show the efficacy of the remittances sent back from the immigrants.
For example, the average amount of money sent back by immigrants from that prefecture
was more than 2 years worth of earnings in the homeland, and substantially helped local growth.

And not only local growth but the national economy as a whole. QUOTE:
QUOTE: "Nationally the sums of money were significant alongside Japan's
internationally balance of payments. Locally as in Hiroshima prefecture,
the remittances and sums brought back amounted to more than half as much
as the whole prefecture government spent. In short, the importance of Japanese
migrants in America was substantial in Japan."[/i]
--Erhnic America, pg 159-160

The Japanese example proves that you can export high quality people, and that SAID
export can be substantially beneficial in local AND NATIONAL terms, and that the loss of
these people does not leave behind "dum-dums" who are supposedly these crippled creatures
who "run everything into the ground." That is dubious. There is nothing saying that people
left behind cannot be likewise trained and educated in turn to, wait for it, REPLACE
the departed, and this is exactly what happened as Hiroshima prefecture replaced its
departed immigrants and became a substantial port and industrial center in that region.
In short BOTH immigration, AND local education and replacement strategies worked.
The actual facts debunk what you are saying.

books.google.com/books?id=M2GfO8IOq8cC&printsec=frontcover&dq=sowell+ethnic+america&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjy6q7hs8nYAhUB5iYKHVzWBcsQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=hiroshima&f=false

The Japanese example shows how a DUAL TRACK strategy can work. Far from "crippling"
Japan, the emigrant remittances promoted development and growth AT HOME, and helped
cut poverty. The people left at home were not "dum dums- they were the people who
in fact built Japan's industrial powerhouse using the capital sent back from emigrants.
In fact the Japanese government prior to the 1920s when the US and others cut immigration '
DELIBERATELY ENCOURAGED emigration as a development strategy. Again, the facts debunk
misinformed claims. As more credible scholarship shows:
QUOTE:

"In other words, the Japanese overseas emigration not only facilitated
industrialization and commercial activity but also alleviated socioeconomic
problems caused in the process of modernization following the opening of Japan.
In fact, a large-scale overseas emigration contributed to the development of Japan’s
maritime industry as Sasaki Seiji and Nishimukai Yoshiaki pointed out."
--CULTURAL ANALYSIS OF THE EARLY JAPANESE IMMIGRATION TO THE UNITED
STATES DURING MEIJI TO TAISHO ERA (1868–1926)
shareok.org/bitstream/handle/11244/6783/Department%20of%20History_09.pdf?sequence=1

[kel]

"also alleviated socioeconomic
problems caused in the process of modernization"

i.e we dump our detritus (ok middling) on the Yankees ( the Mexico strategy) and get them to send back dollars.

meanwhile, Japan DID NOT export their most intelligent. The immigrants they sent happened to not be the poorest and dumbest. The brains they sent some abroad to study and come back.

Sending your Best to the competition is no strategy at all and this is what has been happening with Africa and the Caribbean: BRAIN DRAIN


As far as Italy is concerned, like Japan they DID NOT send their best. Proof of that is that Italians in the US dont account for much. Italy's development has everything to do with not sending off the brains......... no functional society does it unless it is part of a strict plan like the Japanese/Chinese/Korean/Indians to send people to get educated/experience and have them return to assume positions of influence.

China and India have it right. Send the sharp ones to get educated/experience and then have them come back.

Sending emigrants to get remittance money is not a problem. Sending off your best minds and waiting for their remittance money as a national strategy is a horrible idea......who are they sending the money back to other than the dum dums...who is leading the nations and vital institutions if the brains are abroad sending remittances you leave the society in the hands of the dummies and that is fatal.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2009-11-19/chinas-reverse-brain-drain

techcrunch.com/2009/10/17/beware-the-reverse-brain-drain-to-india-and-china/


The very best thing a place like Nigeria for example could do would be to openly invite all their diaspora back home ....especially the doctors, scientists,engineers, and finance folks of which there are many in the US, Canada, and Europe.   They should invite them back and pay next to any price to make it happen as well as making provisions for them to influence government entities, positions of authority, etc.............

[zarahan]

meanwhile, Japan DID NOT export their most intelligent. The immigrants they sent happened to not be the poorest and dumbest. The brains they sent some abroad to study and come back.

You seem to be contradicting your own argument a bit. Up above you claimed that the best people were going and only "dum dums" were left behind. Now you claim that the best people were not sent out.
QUOTE:
All of the problems you identify are in part because of the surplus of dum dums.
No system .... NONE .... is better off when the best run off.

OK, well then if Japan kept home the best and the brightest, how then can you say earlier that the pattern is a surplus of dum-dums remaining behind? You are contradicting your own notion.

Furthermore in contradiction of your argument, Japan did in fact as a deliberate policy send out a cross-section of its population and deliberately used them to further economic development and cut poverty back home. This debunks your claim. You say people export- "is no strategy at all" when in fact, the record shows that it was a strategy, and one that Japan used profitably.


As far as Italy is concerned, like Japan they DID NOT send their best. Proof of that is that Italians in the US dont account for much. Italy's development has everything to do with not sending off the brains.

OK, lets go with your notion for a moment. You contradict your own argument again by now trying to argue that the best people quote "DID NOT" go out, only the low enders. But if this is so, how then can you claim that it is the "dum dums" being left behind? If its low-enders going out, and the mo betta peeps staying behind. how can there be dum-dums at home? They all gone, according to your own argument.

As for the Italians in the US not amounting to much- you are sadly wrong again. Actually Italian Americans in the US are doing pretty well. Italian family income for example is more than other white people like the Irish, who had the advantage of speaking English when they arrived, and they earn more than white people of English descent. And many Italian Americans have gained prominence- Scalia- Supreme Court Justice, LaGuardia- mayor of NYC. Baseball greats Dimaggio, Yogi Berra, other sport greats like Marciano, Lombardi, Marino. In entertainment you have Caruso, Sinatra, Toscanni, Perry Como, Dean Martin and a bunch of others going under anglicized names. Hell, if this "aint amounting to much" - such a situation would be paradise for black people in the US.


Italy's development has everything to do with not sending off the brains

Baloney again. WHen are you gonna actually read and post some credible information. In fact overseas remittances from migrants played an important part in developing regional Italian economies, as credible;e scholarship shows. QUOTE:

..remittances of money to Italy from the United States totaled $85 million. 84 Another Italian immigrant study concluded: “The impact on Italy of this additional money was considerable. This infusion of fresh capital helped bolster the Italian economy and encouraged thethe development of agricultural and industrial improvements which created jobs for many peasants and laborers. It spurred the continuing flow of immigrant workers to the United States...Some areas of Italy owed almost their entire economic development to 90 remittances, and the Italian merchant marine was virtually built upon them. Without a doubt, money from abroad had become a potent factor in the economic and social life of Italy.” 85"]

scholarworks.umb.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1155&context=masters_theses



China and India have it right. Send the sharp ones to get educated/experience and then have them come back.

LOL but you earlier said that the smart ones should not leave, contradicting your praise of the India/China approach. But the data on hand at any rate contradict your argument. In fact, India has reaped the benefits of a people export policy. As one study puts it:

“Exporting skilled people” might in fact have become an integral component of India’s development strategies and might explain the support for private financing of education."
www.oecd.org/dev/33637466.PDF


Sending emigrants to get remittance money is not a problem. Sending off your best minds and waiting for their remittance money as a national strategy is a horrible idea......who are they sending the money back to other than the dum dums...who is leading the nations and vital institutions if the brains are abroad sending remittances you leave the society in the hands of the dummies and that is fatal.

Talkin bout "dum dums" and "dummies" only shows a lack of coherence to your arguments. Up above you say they didn't send out the best minds. But now you stalk about the better people sending back monies to the "dum dums." LOL how can they be sending back money to "the dummies" if they never left in the first place, according to your own argument? Roll eyes..

You say remittance strategy is "a horrible idea" but the record shows that properly organized, as in Japan, and even in India, it is a quite logical and valid that can be profitably used for development and poverty reduction back home. Money sent back to buy children food, schoolbooks, pay rent, open businesses, get vehicles for transporting crops, merchandise or people etc is not money sent to "dum dums." It is money well spent.

You need to do a little more research and not rely on personal opinion, which does not hold up under the evidence.



[The very best thing a place like Nigeria for example could do would be to openly invite all their diaspora back home ....especially the doctors, scientists,engineers, and finance folks of which there are many in the US, Canada, and Europe. They should invite them back and pay next to any price to make it happen as well as making provisions for them to influence government entities, positions of authority, etc..

This is really naive. It all sounds so nice-- just invite them back and pay whatever it takes, and give them all nice positions.. Sweet.. Except in the REAL world such shiny utopias do not happen. Where is all this money gonna come from? And where are all these influential "positions of authority" supposed to be found? If people are leaving now, or are being forced out by war, dictatorism, ethnic favoritism, corruption etc and THEY CAN'T NOW GET said money or positions of authority, what magical tooth fairy with a magic wand wand you gonna get to bring about this naive nirvana? lol..

[kel]

Alright now are just being silly.....

Italians have amounted to next to nothing in the US considering their numbers and length of stay here. But for a handful of politicians, police, and firemen,their greatest contribution has been the Mafia.

Japan sent people out with an intentional and purposeful strategy of having them come back. At no time was their any strategy to send or allow their brains to leave and be permanently drained.

China and India now is persuing this strategy. This is the smart way to go.

There is NO net benefit to any society to sending off your best folk with no firm plan to bring them back. Brain Drain by definition leads to stagnation at best and destruction at worst.

The Caribbean and African is proof of that.

If u want to send of some detritus as a release valve and get back some dollars thats fine. However that is not a strategy for development.

The proper strategy is to do exactly what the advanced and functioning societies do. Develop the Brains of your very own - with special attention paid to the best and try to attract the best from other nations into your own..........

[zarahan]

talians have amounted to next to nothing in the US considering their numbers and length of stay here. But for a handful of politicians, police, and firemen,their greatest contribution has been the Mafia.

Complete nonsense. People of Italian descent actually are doing quite well
in the US, on average. You simply do not know what you are talking about.


Japan sent people out with an intentional and purposeful strategy of having them come back. At no time was their any strategy to send or allow their brains to leave and be permanently drained.

Japan sent SOME people out for training and return but others, as part of
their deliberate policy, were free to stay overseas if they wished, and this
worked out quite profitably for the Japanese. And of course they never set it
up so that ALL brains would be gone. No one ever said they did. They had plenty
of brains at home AND abroad to pursue their strategy profitably, contradicting
your claim.


China and India now is persuing this strategy. This is the smart way to go.
And what they are doing contradicts your claim yet again about only "dum dums"
staying at home. You also earlier said people export strategies were "a horrible idea"
and "no strategy at all." But that too is debunked.


There is NO net benefit to any society to sending off your best folk with no firm plan to bring them back. Brain Drain by definition leads to stagnation at best and destruction at worst.

NO society sends of only their best folk with no firm plan to bring them back.
No society discussed above has been doing that- not Japan, not India, not China.
So when you say there is no net benefit, sure, but no one is doing that to begin with.


The Caribbean and African is proof of that.

You mention the Caribbean and Africa as proof, but that too is rather dubious.
Jamaica for example has been exporting migrants to the US since the early 1900s,
including one Marcus Mosiah Garvey. Jamaica has no shortage of educated people. Hell
the problem is finding jobs for all the educated people. A majority of young Jamaicans
would migrate OUT NOW if they had the chance. But this has not caused any dire
crisis at home- to the contrary there is a SURPLUS OF PEOPLE stagnating at home NOW.
The real challenge is a well-managed plan to export this surplus, replace those that leave,
while reaping the money they send back home, and ensuring overall benefits exceed costs.

Same thing applies to some African countries where corruption, civil war, dictatorism,
environmental crisis etc has FORCED OUT people. Its not simply people wanting to leave
to get more money in the West, people are being FORCED OUT by bad home conditions.
Why have good people languishing in some refugee camp, or in poverty and unemployment
in yet another shanty town when they can be overseas sending hard cash home to their
families and building up local economies?

Your solution is a tooth fairy fantasy, where magical money is available
to call everybody back home and give them all nice positions of authority.
Sounds wonderful, but your notion is also totally naive and unrealistic.



If u want to send of some detritus as a release valve and get back some dollars thats fine. However that is not a strategy for development.

But this is bit of a strawman. No one above is sending only low-end detritus overseas.
As demonstrated, a mix of people was sent, including educated or skilled people who are
given a free hand in whether to come back or not. In fact African countries are sending
a fair amount of educated people overseas- they have to in some cases. The US for example
is not looking for African street sweeper or ditch-digger migrants. The United States
"Diversity Visa" for example that admits up to 25% of all African immigrants requires a
high school diploma and 2 years of work experience, not earth-shattering requirements,
but they rule out uneducated low-enders who want to enter legally. And having
people send money back home is a valid development strategy that cuts poverty at home
and boosts local and regional, sometimes, as in the case of Italy and Japan, national
development. The rest of the strategy is managing the education and visa part, and who is
coming back after advanced training.

You keep saying that such a strategy (which is part of a package deal and never in isolation)
won't work, but as shown repeatedly, it is working and working in the real world, unlike the
rather naive tooth-fairy approach you advocate above.


The proper strategy is to do exactly what the advanced and functioning societies do. Develop the Brains of your very own - with special attention paid to the best and try to attract the best from other nations into your own.........

lol, as already shown the advanced and functioning places like Japan, India, China
etc were/are using the same people export strategy you claim won't work. And you
don;t only focus on a small group. You work with people across the board,
and as part of a well managed overall strategy, exporting both low and high end
will yield benefits likewise across the board, help individual families, cut poverty
and help boost local and regional development. You claim it won;t work, but the
real world debunks your notions time and time again.

You also say nations should want to attract the best from other nations. Sure.
But what highly educated doctors, engineers, nurses, technicians etc are rushing
to migrate to devastated places like Somalia, COngo, etc etc.. lol, not very many.
You idea sounds nice- try to attract the best- but it is rather naive in view
of real world conditions. Many African countries have a long way to go before
they can offer the type of stability and conditions to attract "the best." You
need to think critically and get a grip on the facts. Its like your earlier
notion of calling everybody home to get "good positions." Really?