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Post by jayjay28 on May 20, 2010 0:40:18 GMT -5
With the Identity of Egypt being a bygone conclusion, who were the Moors. I am asking this on a purely academic level, and I have many pictures depicting the Moors as Black. I also think that while the Moors were mostly Black, I still am curious to what populations that they originated from. Please approach this from an objective viewpoint, keep the racism both subtle and overt out of the discussion. Who is this person in the image you posted (below)? Can someone tell me who the person in the bust displays and at what period this bust was created? Attachments:
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Post by anansi on May 20, 2010 3:15:32 GMT -5
With the Identity of Egypt being a bygone conclusion, who were the Moors. I am asking this on a purely academic level, and I have many pictures depicting the Moors as Black. I also think that while the Moors were mostly Black, I still am curious to what populations that they originated from. Please approach this from an objective viewpoint, keep the racism both subtle and overt out of the discussion. Who is this person in the image you posted (below)? Can someone tell me who the person in the bust displays and at what period this bust was created? Not certain of the individual but the time period is no later than the Roman era I was tempted to say Juba 2 but after comparing the two I went against it any here is what some ancient Tunisians looked like    Vase in the shape of the bust of an African. Bronze, Roman artwork, 2nd century AD. Juba 2 said to be related to Cleopatra and Mark Anthony?All the above are Roman era Bronze work |
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Post by anansi on May 20, 2010 4:08:19 GMT -5
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/52/MuseoArcheolNapoli3130.jpgA NorthAfrican scene with both lite-skinned and dark-skinned Africans It's really too big to post but you must see it some kind of religious rites taking place if anyone can reduce the image and post it please do so. I had wrote above that it was some kind of religious rite going on I changed my mind I think it just raunchy sex check out the couple in the boat please click on for greater detail...I say get a... ROOM!!.. 
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Post by truthteacher2007 on May 20, 2010 8:26:23 GMT -5
Who is this person in the image you posted (below)? Can someone tell me who the person in the bust displays and at what period this bust was created? Not certain of the individual but the time period is no later than the Roman era I was tempted to say Juba 2 but after comparing the two I went against it any here is what some ancient Tunisians looked like Vase in the shape of the bust of an African. Bronze, Roman artwork, 2nd century AD.Juba 2 said to be related to Cleopatra and Mark Anthony?All the above are Roman era Bronze workSo much for the theory that more tropically adapted Africans only arrived with the Islamic slave trade. |
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Post by truthteacher2007 on May 20, 2010 8:36:49 GMT -5
Basically, they are the same as they are today. It's just further proof of how Eurocenticity has schewed reality. They divide North Africa into caucasians and negros and claim one has nothing to do with the other, when in fact the two ARE biologically connected, as well as connected in other ways that cut acrss and much deeperskin color or features. They think in terms of absolutes, but nothing in life is absolute. So the answer to who were the Moors is that they are the people still living in North Africa today. There are no vanished mysterious popultaions in Africa. The Moors, Egyptians, Nubians are all right where they've always been. |
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Post by anansi on May 20, 2010 14:06:04 GMT -5
Basically, they are the same as they are today. It's just further proof of how Eurocenticity has schewed reality. They divide North Africa into caucasians and negros and claim one has nothing to do with the other, when in fact the two ARE biologically connected, as well as connected in other ways that cut acrss and much deeperskin color or features. They think in terms of absolutes, but nothing in life is absolute. So the answer to who were the Moors is that they are the people still living in North Africa today. There are no vanished mysterious popultaions in Africa. The Moors, Egyptians, Nubians are all right where they've always been. ...however Truthteacher it is my belief that those people both lite and dark stem from Eurasian mothers and East African fathers...actually it is not really my belief but a genetic fact. Zaharan can maybe back me upon that... |
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Post by truthteacher2007 on May 20, 2010 18:04:54 GMT -5
Basically, they are the same as they are today. It's just further proof of how Eurocenticity has schewed reality. They divide North Africa into caucasians and negros and claim one has nothing to do with the other, when in fact the two ARE biologically connected, as well as connected in other ways that cut acrss and much deeperskin color or features. They think in terms of absolutes, but nothing in life is absolute. So the answer to who were the Moors is that they are the people still living in North Africa today. There are no vanished mysterious popultaions in Africa. The Moors, Egyptians, Nubians are all right where they've always been. ...however Truthteacher it is my belief that those people both lite and dark stem from Eurasian mothers and East African fathers...actually it is not really my belief but a genetic fact. Zaharan can maybe back me upon that... Well as Jamaicans, our motto is Out of MAny One People. Did we really need all these DNA studies to tell us what our own life experience already knows? People wh look like that are nothing special to us. We've grown up seeing them all our lives. Some of them are our family member, some our neighbors and friends, some the faces we see looking back at us in the mirror. So since we know our history and what happened, when we see people in that part of the world who basically look a certain way, we know why. When the same green Shahra that allowed for East Africans to migrate north also allowed Eastern Mediteraneas to migrate west. Thing is though, those eurasians have been in Africa so long they've developed their own genetic markers. Also, have you ever heard their music and seen their dance? That aint Eurasian. Hang out with some Moroccans at a party and I guarantee you the spirit is going to come down on somebody. You'd think you were in a Pokominyo meeting. Even their folk religion is so close to Santeria, Vodon that you can't disregard it. |
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Post by doctorisscientia on May 20, 2010 22:32:56 GMT -5
That's right if it ain't mathematics ... quantum physics not with-standing nothing is absolute ...however Truthteacher it is my belief that those people both lite and dark stem from Eurasian mothers and East African fathers...actually it is not really my belief but a genetic fact. Zaharan can maybe back me upon that... Well as Jamaicans, our motto is Out of MAny One People. Did we really need all these DNA studies to tell us what our own life experience already knows? People wh look like that are nothing special to us. We've grown up seeing them all our lives. Some of them are our family member, some our neighbors and friends, some the faces we see looking back at us in the mirror. So since we know our history and what happened, when we see people in that part of the world who basically look a certain way, we know why. When the same green Shahra that allowed for East Africans to migrate north also allowed Eastern Mediteraneas to migrate west. Thing is though, those eurasians have been in Africa so long they've developed their own genetic markers. Also, have you ever heard their music and seen their dance? That aint Eurasian. Hang out with some Moroccans at a party and I guarantee you the spirit is going to come down on somebody. You'd think you were in a Pokominyo meeting. Even their folk religion is so close to Santeria, Vodon that you can't disregard it. I 'm not exactly getting your point or the evidence in which your speaking of in regard to pre-historic North Africans. While it would seem likely that there was some gene-flow via Southwest Asia into North Africa, the south-north geneflow as showcased by modern and historic biological evidence was mush more stronger and influencial. Ancient North Africans from what I understand were tropically adapted Africans, in that they didn't sport the in between characteristics of mixed populations, i.e. most modern day Northern coastal North Africans. Everything points to a extensive amount of admixture which was mush more recently aquired in these said regions. Can you explain to me what exact haplogroups have been developed in Africa among "Eurasian" populations? And I'm totally disagreeing with your first statement in which your suggesting that the primary phenotype is due to racial mixing, while admixture did occur in relatively recent times, those features as showcased by peoples such as the Tuareg who are largly of West African/East African ancestry is indigenous to Africa. Jamaica is not a good example at all... 1) the African component in Jamaica and mush of the Caribbean represents the vast majority of the biological diversity, therefore accounting for the vast majority of physical characteristics. 2) Jamaica is a rather recent gene-pool. Also, in regard to anansi, I would describe it that simply... while the vast majority of paternal ancestry of Northern Coastal Berbers/"Arabs" is of indigenous African origin... theres also a significant portion of African ancestry in the maternal line aswell, around 30%+/-. Also the refugium theory has been recently underattack, therefore a lot of these so called Eurasian maternal haplogroups may in fact be African. Also, what do you mean by "darker"... Central/Southern North Africans/Saharans are largly African, both maternally and paternally... it's northern groups with increased "Eurasian" maternal ancestry, those being more lighter then their brethen to the south. Lastly, any backwards geneflow into Africa, wuld have been acted upon relatively early during pre-historic times... when all Eurasians physically resembled Africans, therefore leaving no impact on the physical appereance of the African populations. Everything we know about Egypt for example, shows that there was little to no admixture in the population up and till and 1000 year Roman/Greek occupation of Egypt. In which later Arabs would find the consequences of such prolonged occupation in the form of what they saw as a population of "half-caste Ethiopians". |
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Post by doctorisscientia on May 20, 2010 22:38:25 GMT -5
Basically, they are the same as they are today. It's just further proof of how Eurocenticity has schewed reality. They divide North Africa into caucasians and negros and claim one has nothing to do with the other, when in fact the two ARE biologically connected, as well as connected in other ways that cut acrss and much deeperskin color or features. They think in terms of absolutes, but nothing in life is absolute. So the answer to who were the Moors is that they are the people still living in North Africa today. There are no vanished mysterious popultaions in Africa. The Moors, Egyptians, Nubians are all right where they've always been. OK, but theres evidence of dramatic changes in many North African populations, historically... in particular Berber and Egypt North Africa. If your trying to suggest that cosmopolitan Northern Egypt repersents the Ancient population or that modern day blond haired, green eyes, white skinned Northern Coastal Berbers repersent North Africa's indigenous Berber populations... your dead wrong. proto-Berber speakers didn't leave Eastern Sudan and then on Western Sudan with blond hair and white skin, and the people that emerged from the Central Sahara, Central Sudan, and Red Sea Hills didn't do so looking like your prince of Persia. Lets cut with the politcally correctness... North Africa's human population has changed! |
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Post by anansi on May 20, 2010 23:23:39 GMT -5
From Doctoris scientia
Also, in regard to anansi, I would describe it that simply... while the vast majority of paternal ancestry of Northern Coastal Berbers/"Arabs" is of indigenous African origin... theres also a significant portion of African ancestry in the maternal line aswell, around 30%+/-. Also the refugium theory has been recently underattack, therefore a lot of these so called Eurasian maternal haplogroups may in fact be African
I didn't say they were paternal Eurasian I said they were East African later influences from Eurasia not with-standing I think Zarahan have those Dna stats posted somewhere..and I think the point being made about the Jamaica is not that they are "mixed" per say but regardless of their shade they see themselves as Jamaicans and the shades goes from very dark to very lite even within the same family not unlike some north Africans.
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Post by doctorisscientia on May 21, 2010 13:47:00 GMT -5
^OK!
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Post by truthteacher2007 on May 21, 2010 18:21:08 GMT -5
From Doctoris scientia Also, in regard to anansi, I would describe it that simply... while the vast majority of paternal ancestry of Northern Coastal Berbers/"Arabs" is of indigenous African origin... theres also a significant portion of African ancestry in the maternal line aswell, around 30%+/-. Also the refugium theory has been recently underattack, therefore a lot of these so called Eurasian maternal haplogroups may in fact be AfricanI didn't say they were paternal Eurasian I said they were East African later influences from Eurasia not with-standing I think Zarahan have those Dna stats posted somewhere..and I think the point being made about the Jamaica is not that they are "mixed" per say but regardless of their shade they see themselves as Jamaicans and the shades goes from very dark to very lite even within the same family not unlike some north Africans. Exactly. The main point is that the ideology of identifyng by concepts of race is a recent Eurocentric notion. The idea that people of different skin colors means they are unrelated is a recent Eurocentric notion, by recent, I mean the past 500 years. Whether or not the Eurasian mixture happen in historic or prehistoric times is irrelivant, they are still Africans and are still related genetically to other African peoples just as a woman as light skinned and mixed as Leena Horn was still a woman of African ancestry and still genetically related to other African Americans who were much darker. Its has always been culture and family ties which determined identity prior to European colonialism and the class system they imposed. So no, a blond or red headed Berber doesn't freak me out because I know that that blond berber feels more connected to a black skinned kinky haired berber than he does to a blong European. His language is African, his culture is still African and as shown in the video clips, its an African beat that moves their bodies in celebration. Further more, when he arrives in France, he is not treated as a "caucasian brother, but forced to live in the ghettos with all the other Africans. After WW2 the French government decided that they no longer needed to pay pensions to the soldiers from their former African colonies who risked their lives defending France. That to me speaks voulmes about the Eurocentric mind and what they think of all of us. |
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jari
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Post by jari on Oct 21, 2011 15:02:05 GMT -5
I believe the Moroccan sultan had a "black African" Mother and his father was half black was Yakub Al Mansur, the Almohad Sultan who reigned during the 12th century.  A Moor of a liter-hue lets not get it twisted they did exist
Ambassador to Queen Elizabeth.The last picture you posted "the so called lighter skinnned man" is of Sultan Ahmad al-Mansur, who's mother was a Fulani concubine.[/quote] Ooh really so he became Sultan after he became ambassador to Queen Elizabeth..so what then of his father what ethnic back-ground..where did he come from?[/quote] |
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Post by azrur on Oct 12, 2013 14:43:42 GMT -5
A Moor of a liter-hue lets not get it twisted they did exist
Ambassador to Queen Elizabeth. The last picture you posted "the so called lighter skinnned man" is of Sultan Ahmad al-Mansur, who's mother was a Fulani concubine. that is not Sultan Ahmad al-Mansur it is Abd el-Ouahed ben Messaoud the person Othello is based off of |
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Post by azrur on Oct 12, 2013 14:49:58 GMT -5
 this is a picture of sultan ahmed al mansur |
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