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Post by nebsen on Jul 15, 2017 21:18:20 GMT -5
This is a great discussion on Pan- Africanism with Africans. I know their are those of us here ESR who have strong positive feelings about this subject myself included ; a very needed topic & discussion .
The next important topic & discussion, about, why Is The Diaspora Important To The Mother land; again with an African panel .
it is important to take note that both discussion were in 2014 3 years ago when Obama was still president. Now that Trump is in office it is important to pay very close attention to how Africa will fair, in these new challenging times !
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Post by nebsen on Jul 16, 2017 19:49:08 GMT -5
This is a most impressive documentary on Pan- Africasism; highly recommend to those that have a real interest on the matter.
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Post by zarahan on Jul 17, 2017 0:06:18 GMT -5
The host asks what happened to Pan Africanism? Is it external forces that crushed it, or are people too busy with individual pursuits to pay much attention these days? I think its a bit of both. But as the discussion points out on the 1960s with the heady winds of decolonization, Pan Africanism seemed exciting and practical. In the 21st century it seems less relevant, and while today's leaders talk about the usual boilerplate of African renaissance, and hail the 1960s big men and founders of nations, Pan Africanist ideology as such, is not very relevant at present politically.
What the discussion does not get into is that Pan Africanism ORIGINALLY, in some ways had some unrealistic ideas about unity across a continent with widely varying peoples, political systems, religions, languages etc. What gave this diversity a common shape politically in the past, was the experience of colonialism. Take away the colonialists and the independence era, and many of the Pan African talking points are weakened or become less relevant.
Thee is plenty of criticism of leaders and their collaboration with former colonizers and the global elites. Much of this criticism is merited.
Also re relevance is whether Pan Africanism offers a compelling model for African development compared to nationalism. In other regions, nationalism is doing well. in Asia, China and Japan are spending most of their energies building up Japan and China FIRST, BEFORE investing much energy on Pan Asian unity. China and Japan, the two big dogs in Asia, have always spent most of their time looking to do "Pan Asianism" under THEIR leadership, rather than an idealistic notion of happy Asians working together for the common good. They put their nations first. I see no reason why a modified free-market nationalism, using relevant regional working arrangements (sharing waters from a single dam for example across 2 borders), and pursuing proper policies holding down corruption, and ensuring local peoples reap at least part of the results, could not work. A disciplined, modified nationalism using the right policies, for example could avoid the "easy money" debt traps used by the globalist machine- while still tapping financial markets to access cash and credit for development, and without giving away African resources so cheaply to outsiders for a few bribes.
At present Pan Africanism is more an idealistic talking-shop notion- good for TED talks and random internet posts but with little political relevance on the ground in Africa. The videos mention the advantages brought by modern telecom for communicating PA ideals, and the Internet is awash in folk talking bout African unity, but that's as far as it goes- mostly talk. In the arts, and so on, an umbrella of sorts can be built around artists, festivals, music etc, but economically and politically Pan Africanism has been wanting since the end of the colonial era.
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Post by zarahan on Jul 17, 2017 0:17:29 GMT -5
The lady in the first video says that rich business elites can make Pan Africanism work, but this seems shaky. Such elites first and foremost are primarily put to benefit themselves. And sure they can do some philanthropy, but most of their energy is spent on ther own profit. The guy says new leaders are needed to fire up the masses re Pan Africnism. I more lean towards his point of view.
Another point that some of the videos could have addressed n more detail is what Pan Africanism can do with the current scramble for Africa, as Chinese, and other foreigners milk the continent of its resources, in collaboration with local elites and compradors who profit off bribes and payouts. Meanwhile the "trickle down" to the masses remains pitiful. And why have the Chinese build the new OU Headquarters in Ethiopia? Wouldn’t it have been a perfect demonstration of "Pan African Unity" if African architects and labor had done most of it? Couldn’t a Pan African team have been assembled to do this? We are talking an office building here, not a space station. I am sympathetic to some Pan African arguments but its another demonstration of how Pan Africanism lacks contemporary political relevance on the ground, even as far as the official "unity" establishment. It would be nice for a true grassroots alternative to evolve.
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Post by nebsen on Jul 17, 2017 1:38:59 GMT -5
The lady in the first video says that rich business elites can make Pan Africanism work, but this seems shaky. Such elites first and foremost are primarily put to benefit themselves. And sure they can do some philanthropy, but most of their energy is spent on ther own profit. The guy says new leaders are needed to fire up the masses re Pan Africnism. I more lean towards his point of view. Another point that some of the videos could have addressed n more detail is what Pan Africanism can do with the current scramble for Africa, as Chinese, and other foreigners milk the continent of its resources, in collaboration with local elites and compradors who profit off bribes and payouts. Meanwhile the "trickle down" to the masses remains pitiful. And why have the Chinese build the new OU Headquarters in Ethiopia? Wouldn’t it have been a perfect demonstration of "Pan African Unity" if African architects and labor had done most of it? Couldn’t a Pan African team have been assembled to do this? We are talking an office building here, not a space station. I am sympathetic to some Pan African arguments but its another demonstration of how Pan Africanism lacks contemporary political relevance on the ground, even as far as the official "unity" establishment. It would be nice for a true grassroots alternative to evolve. Point taken, although rather verbose as usual. I stated these videos were done in 2013-14 & China's impact was not as known than as it is today. I would not dismiss Pan- Africanism as passe just yet. I happen to remember this great African historical event when Ghana gained it's independence & the promise Africans & well as African Americans held for the new emerging Africa. Many great movements evolved over time to it's full maturation& implementation at a later date ; such a time i believe has come for Africa. if one has been paying attention you can see the sprouts like in in Rwanda that has been in the international news. Looking to hear from other member esp.from Anansi who always brings his unique perspective.
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Post by zarahan on Jul 19, 2017 21:00:12 GMT -5
I hear ya. I used to believe many Pan African ideas, and to a certain extent respect the prior work, but its tough these days outside the arts/culture sphere as far as I see. I used too to think that Black Americans could play a key role in African development and so on, but all that seems less plausible now. Sure there is a lot of talk about unity but generally I don't see Africans anxious to have Black Americans come to their countries and take over available jobs. They may resent outsiders. If you are bringing money for investment they may welcome you to some extent, but there are many educated Africans looking for work and they aren't anxious to see foreign competitors on the job market.
The tables have been turned to some extent. Today its Africans coming to America that are making high level waves. Some are more highly educated or are in the process of becoming so, and are over-represented among black students at elite universities. More power to them, but the general point is that the old notion of Black Americans going to Africa to "lead" or "guide" the folk- a common notion up to the 1960s, no longer seems to hold much water.
Then there is the phenomenon of SOME Africans thinking dey so much better than Black Americans. Some not all of course. You sometimes see in in the Somalis or Ethiopians who think a few narrow noses makes them somehow so much more "special" than "those West Africans" or US Blacks.. Really? SMH. Course to be fair some black Americans are equally prejudiced and think they so much better than Africans.. I have seen that too. Hopefully as African immigration continues, and understanding grows, such prejudice and i'gnance on both sides eases up..
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Post by nebsen on Jul 20, 2017 17:19:42 GMT -5
This gives me hope for Pan Africansim for the 21 Century !
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Post by mellomusings on Jul 22, 2017 18:23:03 GMT -5
I hear ya. I used to believe many Pan African ideas, and to a certain extent respect the prior work, but its tough these days outside the arts/culture sphere as far as I see. I used too to think that Black Americans could play a key role in African development and so on, but all that seems less plausible now. Sure there is a lot of talk about unity but generally I don't see Africans anxious to have Black Americans come to their countries and take over available jobs. They may resent outsiders. If you are bringing money for investment they may welcome you to some extent, but there are many educated Africans looking for work and they aren't anxious to see foreign competitors on the job market. The tables have been turned to some extent. Today its Africans coming to America that are making high level waves. Some are more highly educated or are in the process of becoming so, and are over-represented among black students at elite universities. More power to them, but the general point is that the old notion of Black Americans going to Africa to "lead" or "guide" the folk- a common notion up to the 1960s, no longer seems to hold much water. Then there is the phenomenon of SOME Africans thinking dey so much better than Black Americans. Some not all of course. You sometimes see in in the Somalis or Ethiopians who think a few narrow noses makes them somehow so much more "special" than "those West Africans" or US Blacks.. Really? SMH. Course to be fair some black Americans are equally prejudiced and think they so much better than Africans.. I have seen that too. Hopefully as African immigration continues, and understanding grows, such prejudice and i'gnance on both sides eases up.. And in that same breath how do you think many Africans within the diaspora specifically within the U.S. feel when Africans from the continent come and take jobs from equally qualified Black Americans due to companies willing to import immigrants due to them largely being a source of cheap labor and willing to work for less compared to those native born. But I agree with the overall conversation here just wanted to make that side note. It also should be noted that most black people whether on the continent or within the diaspora doesn't really seem to care for the idea or concept especially most people my age (millennials), although I agree with some goals of pan-africanism such as self-determination but some are just highly idealistic as pointed out.
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Post by zarahan on Jul 25, 2017 1:07:54 GMT -5
Sure, there could be resentment of Africans, particularly when they compete with US Blacks. Cuts both ways I suppose. There is also some resentment against the hard-nosed approach to education many African immigrants have- "Lion Moms" - African version of the Asian "Tiger Mom." Used to be some resentment in old Harlem against the same hard-nosed approach of Caribbean folk, hence the old sneer of JEW-MAICAN, to describe the hustling Jamaican immigrants. And variants in between no doubt for all immigrants are/were not paragons of perfection.
So have you found that the younger folk only pay lip service to Pan Africanism as an ideal but not really interested? Haven't really thought about this side of the equation.
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Post by mellomusings on Jul 25, 2017 19:31:24 GMT -5
Sure, there could be resentment of Africans, particularly when they compete with US Blacks. Cuts both ways I suppose. There is also some resentment against the hard-nosed approach to education many African immigrants have- "Lion Moms" - African version of the Asian "Tiger Mom." Used to be some resentment in old Harlem against the same hard-nosed approach of Caribbean folk, hence the old sneer of JEW-MAICAN, to describe the hustling Jamaican immigrants. And variants in between no doubt for all immigrants are/were not paragons of perfection. So have you found that the younger folk only pay lip service to Pan Africanism as an ideal but not really interested? Haven't really thought about this side of the equation. A few here and there but not really. When I first came into contact with the concept of Pan-Africanism I thought undoubtedly without question or critique that it would've been the best cohesive uniting force to bring together the diaspora and unite Africa. Although after sometime studying the various histories of the people of Africa, and taking time to really think about somethings I came to the conclusion that it wasn't as pointed out there are numerous linguistic, ethnic, cultural, and religious barriers that exist. Plus after learning more about North Africa it isn't a place I'm eager to visit concerning their attitudes towards black people and what's going on currently in Libya tells me that they're not eager to join in hand with us so there goes the idea of a United States of Africa out the window but who needs them anyway.
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Post by nebsen on Jul 26, 2017 17:51:07 GMT -5
Akon, talking about rebranding Africa,which I think is a needed step for a Pan-Afrianism for the 21 century !
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Post by nebsen on Aug 3, 2017 18:09:06 GMT -5
This is not about the subject that has been discussed, but a trailer from The Center For Pan African Thought; I'm really feeling the message in this trailer about a up coming discussion about America !
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Post by nebsen on Sept 12, 2017 21:38:38 GMT -5
Prof PLO Lumumba gives the most inspiring speech about Africa, & her dilemmas I've never heard such a powerful, & honest speech such as this. He is honest, direct, in his speech, about Africa of today. He is a lawyer & from Kenya. This is a very long speech, but I felt to really get the nuance & his broad themes this version I decided to post.
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Post by nebsen on May 18, 2018 14:34:34 GMT -5
PLO Lumumba in his latest speech; Africa Meat Eaten Alive By Superpowers; African leaders need to heed what PLO Lumumba is saying BIG TIME !
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Post by anansi on May 19, 2018 0:25:59 GMT -5
Well I don't think idea of pan Africanism is a bust, more connections are being made on the sly, just that it isn't as loud as say back in the 60ts, and plans are underway to open up internal connectives with projects like this FINANCIAL NEWS African Union Launches Single African Air Transport Market. Read more: egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/2679/african-union-launches-single-air#ixzz5FvAzDGx2Trying to regeen the encroaching desert right across Africa, so things are happening, yes it would be great if like Zarahan said they did the necessary bootstrap task of having their new HQ as entirely African built with contributions from diasporean nations from start to finish would have been a source of immense pride, unfortunately we didn't get that we got a most likely bugged , Chinese built project. But I remained cautiously optimistic regardless of the short falls.
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