Egypt as the originator of African civilization?

[truthteacher2007]

Recently I've been encountering Afrocentrics on youtube advancing the theory that all African civilizations and sciences have their origins in Ancient Egypt. The basic theory is that the Ancient Egyptian fled Egypt and migrated throughout Africa bringing their knowledge with them. What do you all think about this? I have my opinions, but I'd like to hear what others think.

[homeylu]

I've heard this before as well, but there is no evidence that suggest the Ancient Egyptians fled Egypt en masse.

[anansi]

Well off-course there was contact see the video series on Black Genesis posted here..but it was the Sahara and the Great lakes region that served as cultural incubators for most of African civilizations including KMT.

[truthteacher2007]

May 13, 2010 20:00:29 GMT -5 anansi said:

Well off-course there was contact see the video series on Black Genesis posted here..but it was the Sahara and the Great lakes region that served as cultural incubators for most of African civilizations including KMT.

I've been aware of this connection for a long time, but I wouldn't say it was the incubator for all African civilizations. I would say it was definately a contributor for Egypt, Nubia and the civilizations across the Sahel, which is where these people relocted to after the Sahara dried up.

By the way, there was a very good documentary about this a few years back, The Mystery of the Black Mummy. I've been trying for years to get a copy of it. It was shown on the Science channel once or twice and never again. I find it funny that there one can get a hold of every single documentary made on Egypt but this one showing its origins in the Sahara and Subsaharan Africa is the greatest secrete. Anyone know how to get a hod of a DVD?

[homeylu]

May 14, 2010 11:34:01 GMT -5 truthteacher2007 said:

May 13, 2010 20:00:29 GMT -5 anansi said:

Well off-course there was contact see the video series on Black Genesis posted here..but it was the Sahara and the Great lakes region that served as cultural incubators for most of African civilizations including KMT.

I've been aware of this connection for a long time, but I wouldn't say it was the incubator for all African civilizations. I would say it was definately a contributor for Egypt, Nubia and the civilizations across the Sahel, which is where these people relocted to after the Sahara dried up.

By the way, there was a very good documentary about this a few years back, The Mystery of the Black Mummy. I've been trying for years to get a copy of it. It was shown on the Science channel once or twice and never again. I find it funny that there one can get a hold of every single documentary made on Egypt but this one showing its origins in the Sahara and Subsaharan Africa is the greatest secrete. Anyone know how to get a hod of a DVD?

The Black Mummy was a documentary produced by Fulcrum TV for the Discovery channel. I don't know if a DVD exists. But here is the website to contact them.

www.fulcrumtv.com/contact.html

[Charlie Bass]

May 13, 2010 9:49:07 GMT -5 truthteacher2007 said:

Recently I've been encountering Afrocentrics on youtube advancing the theory that all African civilizations and sciences have their origins in Ancient Egypt. The basic theory is that the Ancient Egyptian fled Egypt and migrated throughout Africa bringing their knowledge with them. What do you all think about this? I have my opinions, but I'd like to hear what others think.

There is no evidence for this, Ancient Egypt takes its influence from the Upper Nile valley and the Saharan and it is from those two places, not Ancient Egypt, where a lot of influences spread throughout the continent. Ancient Egypt cannot be view the same way to Africa as Rome or Greece is to Europe, the Romans actually spread out conquered a lot of territory in Europe and Asia Minor.

[homeylu]

There are several African cultures that arose independently, as exhibited by the Nok Culture in the history section. I think the most influential culture that spread throughout Africa would be from the Bantu expansion, I don't know of any other that spread their influence over a wide geographical area encompassing several regions.

We have to remember that there was more than one culture in the Sahara in prehistoric times, and I do believe they migrated to different areas off the continent when the Sahara began to dry up.

[franklin]

When Great Brittan was a great superpower they forced people into reliance through the gold trade and their textile industries, many African nations also had extensive cotton weaving industries and also the gold trade. I do not believe this is a coincidence. Africans were seen as great traders, the land of the "Sudan" was seen as a place of vast riches by the whole Muslim world. Africans also had sophisticated methods of credit

It makes more sense to see Egypt as a center where different African nations could exert influence influence throughout the world. African navigators were seen as essential as far away as China and thousands enlisted in Muslim armies and there were many African merchants in the Muslim world so large numbers moved northward.

Rulers and empires throughout Africa held diplomatic and trade relations with Egypt to a very late date so Egyptian culture would also hae an impact in other different places in Africa

[anansi]

May 15, 2010 16:17:44 GMT -5 homeylu said:

There are several African cultures that arose independently, as exhibited by the Nok Culture in the history section. I think the most influential culture that spread throughout Africa would be from the Bantu expansion, I don't know of any other that spread their influence over a wide geographical area encompassing several regions.

We have to remember that there was more than one culture in the Sahara in prehistoric times, and I do believe they migrated to different areas off the continent when the Sahara began to dry up.

Yes that's what I was trying to tell Truthcentric one has to look at the areas of dispersion..the bringing back to Kmt of Pygmies to do the dances of the gods in connection with Min from the great lakes region..Gods land and land of the ancestors mountains of the Moon bares this out. also I read somewhere that the Queens of Zimbabwe had a ritual where they shoot at the four cardinal point in the same manner as was done in KMT..the ubiquitous head-rest

Southern Africa

KMT era head-rest

Somali
And there are examples from other parts of Africa all I am saying is that "people" like ideas dispersed through-out the continent and the two most important dispersion points were the Sahara and the great lakes.

[egyptianplanet]

There is no mass extinction or dispersion of the native Egyptian population. If there was, don't you think it'd be well documented? Whenever there is a diaspora, it is well talked about. It's not exactly lost to history and can't be hidden no matter what. I've seen a lot of Afrocentrists use this to claim they are descendants of the Egyptians and the modern population if "fake".

If they've proof to back up this claim, I'd like to be the first one to see it. The Egyptians compromised with their conquerors to stay along the banks of the fertile Nile. There's a reason why they didn't want to subjugate and move away from Egypt so readily. In fact, of the Greeks, Romans and Egyptians the Egyptians would've been most likely to compromise with conquerors and stay within Egypt rather than dispersing.

[franklin]

There is much information on nations throughout Africa having relations with Egypt, and it would be very wrong to believe that conquerers didn't conquer further south because of some kind of compromise. In fact soldiers from different places in Africa passed through Egypt and enlisted in Muslim armies their military power was very well known.

The book "Timbuktu the Mysterious" also talked about Egyptian relations with the nations of the Niger and also about the lack of desire for conquest southwards. But people would be moving northward as will as southward movement of people wouldn't be just in one direction

Saharan Trade: A Link Between Europe and Africa

library.thinkquest.org/13406/sh/

[Despite the change in political control of West Africa due to the fall of the Ghana Empire and the rise of the Islamic Mali Empire in 1235, control of the gold-salt trade remained the economic lifeline of the region. Merchants established a second major gold-salt trade route northeast across the Sahara that passed through Tunis, and Cairo, and ended in Egypt's interior. This route complimented the traditional Western Sudan--Maghreb--Europe trade route. As the second trade route grew in popularity, Egypt's influence on the Western Sudan grew as well.]

[anansi]

My point was not that Kemites went to other parts of Africa which they did from time to time as traders soldiers and perhaps wondering holymen. but that other Africans went to Kemet.

[truthteacher2007]

May 16, 2010 17:25:50 GMT -5 egyptianplanet said:

There is no mass extinction or dispersion of the native Egyptian population. If there was, don't you think it'd be well documented? Whenever there is a diaspora, it is well talked about. It's not exactly lost to history and can't be hidden no matter what. I've seen a lot of Afrocentrists use this to claim they are descendants of the Egyptians and the modern population if "fake".

If they've proof to back up this claim, I'd like to be the first one to see it. The Egyptians compromised with their conquerors to stay along the banks of the fertile Nile. There's a reason why they didn't want to subjugate and move away from Egypt so readily. In fact, of the Greeks, Romans and Egyptians the Egyptians would've been most likely to compromise with conquerors and stay within Egypt rather than dispersing.

This is a point I often make. If there were a mass genocide in Egypt, there would be numerous sources about it. For example, the destruction of Carthage was well documented. If the Romans or the Arabs had carried out mass genocides on a major nation like Egypt, the whole world would have been talking about it. Imagine if England were attacked and its population driven off, it would resound around the world. Egypt at that point, although not a major power any more, was much like England today, no longer a great Empire, but definately a major player in the world's economy and politics of the time.

There's another thing about Egyptians, their temperment which hasn't changed much over time. Egyptians always had a dread of travel. They would venture to other areas, but always came right back. It was their greatest fear to die in the lands of the barbarians, (anywhere that wasn't Egypt). They were never like the Greeks or Phonecians who traveled the seas establishing colonies. They were always by nature deeply connected to the land of their birth and terrified of leaving it. This is why unlike the Lebanese, who can be found all over the world, Egyptians had never emmigrated in significant numbers until the 1980's.

Another thing is that if you read Herodetu's description of the character and temperment of the Egyptian people, its identical to the people of today. If they had been replaced by a new population, how would this have been possible?

other things to consider, there would be clear cultural transplants. For example, look at the Arab expansion. When the Arabs left Arbia, they brought their language, writing, religion with them which was adopted by the populations they settled in. We do not see the same thing in other parts of Africa with respect to Egyptian culture. There are definate cultural similarities with other African regions, but I believe this is because Egypt A: was a part of a larger African matrix. B: From deepest time, they received population flow from several southern regions, East Africa, the Western Sahara, Sudan and Chad. I guess you can think of them as one of the students in a class of many students.

the notion of Modern Egyptians being invaders is a product of a Eurocentric world view. It fit in perfectly with colonial ideology. If you make people believe that the present population due to Arab colonization, then you can also justify your own colonization because the country doesn't really belong to them. It belongs to anyone strong enough to take it. I just find it ironic that they found the need to make the Ancients a dead race of "caucasians" and the present population new commers. Call them what you will, but in their eyes the modern population was too inferior to have been the descendants of such an impressive civilization. Makes much more sense to kill them off on paper and make them a mysterios white race. Its just ironic and disturbing that so many Afrocentrics are following in their footsteps.

[truthteacher2007]

May 16, 2010 19:25:57 GMT -5 franklin said:

There is much information on nations throughout Africa having relations with Egypt, and it would be very wrong to believe that conquerers didn't conquer further south because of some kind of compromise. In fact soldiers from different places in Africa passed through Egypt and enlisted in Muslim armies their military power was very well known.

The book "Timbuktu the Mysterious" also talked about Egyptian relations with the nations of the Niger and also about the lack of desire for conquest southwards. But people would be moving northward as will as southward movement of people wouldn't be just in one direction

Saharan Trade: A Link Between Europe and Africa

library.thinkquest.org/13406/sh/

[Despite the change in political control of West Africa due to the fall of the Ghana Empire and the rise of the Islamic Mali Empire in 1235, control of the gold-salt trade remained the economic lifeline of the region. Merchants established a second major gold-salt trade route northeast across the Sahara that passed through Tunis, and Cairo, and ended in Egypt's interior. This route complimented the traditional Western Sudan--Maghreb--Europe trade route. As the second trade route grew in popularity, Egypt's influence on the Western Sudan grew as well.]

Well yes, there is well documented evidence that Egypt in the Middle Ages was part of a continental trading matrix. But that is quite a different thing than saying that all of Africa's civilizations owes its existance to Egyptian colonizers.

Actually, this theory was first advanced by Eurocentric anthropologists projecting their world view into the past in order to justify colonialism. This is the Hametic theory that claimed Egypt was founded by intellectually superior European tribes who brought civilization to the Nile Valley. These white Egyptians then spread out throughout African bringing their knowledge to the intellectually inferior negros. They offerd as proof the overwhelming number of similar cultural traits found further south in Africa. It never occured to them that these similiarities were not due to Egyptian colonization, but that Egypt itself was part of a larger African world and that they all shared a common ancestry.

[truthteacher2007]

May 16, 2010 0:40:20 GMT -5 anansi said:

May 15, 2010 16:17:44 GMT -5 homeylu said:

There are several African cultures that arose independently, as exhibited by the Nok Culture in the history section. I think the most influential culture that spread throughout Africa would be from the Bantu expansion, I don't know of any other that spread their influence over a wide geographical area encompassing several regions.

We have to remember that there was more than one culture in the Sahara in prehistoric times, and I do believe they migrated to different areas off the continent when the Sahara began to dry up.

Yes that's what I was trying to tell Truthcentric one has to look at the areas of dispersion..the bringing back to Kmt of Pygmies to do the dances of the gods in connection with Min from the great lakes region..Gods land and land of the ancestors mountains of the Moon bares this out. also I read somewhere that the Queens of Zimbabwe had a ritual where they shoot at the four cardinal point in the same manner as was done in KMT..the ubiquitous head-rest

Southern Africa

KMT era head-rest

Somali
And there are examples from other parts of Africa all I am saying is that "people" like ideas dispersed through-out the continent and the two most important dispersion points were the Sahara and the great lakes.

Will ya stop calling me truthcentric, I'm TRUTHTEACHER OF HARBOR VIEW, KINGSTON 17 DAMN IT!

Okay, back to topic.... Yes, you are quite right. People don't realize that for much of its history, Egypt's eyes were turned inward to the continent, not outward towards Asia and the Mediterranean. This didn't come until much later in their history when the nations of Asia and Lybia became a threat. So Egypt was part of the African world and connected through a series of trade routes. so there would have been make ideas, practices and technologies that would have migrated throughout Africa along those trade routes, in much the same way that ideas and technologies were relayed throughout Asia along the Silk Road.