mike111
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Post by mike111 on Feb 10, 2018 23:46:06 GMT -5
There is no question that when Africans take-on a foreign religion, they go all in. Clearly Mansa Musa was the role model for President Félix Houphouët-Boigny, the Ivory Coast’s first President. Headline: The World’s Largest Church is a Colossal 1980s Replica of the Vatican! Basilique Notre-Dame de la Paix de Yamoussoukro, also known as the “basilica of the bush”, is the estimated $300 million indulgence of President Félix Houphouët-Boigny, the Ivory Coast’s first President and third longest-serving leader in the world at the time of his death. Houphouët-Boigny was ruling a country already in dire financial straits when he decided it would be a good idea to build a luxurious Vatican clone in the outskirts of his hometown of Yamoussoukro, surrounded by poverty. After importing 30 acres of marble from Italy and 23,000 square feet of contemporary stained glass from France, when asked about the details of the church’s financing, he simply replied that “a deal with God has been done”. (All 7000 seats are also individually air-conditioned). Félix Houphouët-Boigny with JFK It's amazing the similarities: Musa wanted to impress the Turks, and Félix Houphouët-Boigny wanted to impress JFK (a catholic). The Basilica took three years to build, headed by Lebanese architect, Pierre Fakhoury, and an army of hard labourers who worked secretly both day and night. When the Vatican got wind of its copycat design, Pope John Paul II personally requested that the observatory crowning the dome be built slightly lower than the height of St. Peter’s dome. The Ivorian President complied, but then went ahead and topped his dome with a huge gold cross, earning it yet another title of the tallest church in Christendom. Houphouët-Boigny offered it as a gift to the Pope, who consecrated the church in 1990, (rather controversially) under the condition that a hospital be built nearby. The papal villa, which was built exclusively to house the Pope on his visits has stood empty ever since. In fact, the whole thing is arguably one big empty and outrageous contradiction. Up to 18,000 people can worship in the basilica (7,000 seated, 11,000 standing) but in a nation where more than two thirds of its people aren’t even Christian, it has a tough time filling just a few seats. A recent visitor to the Ivory Coast told me that there couldn’t have been more than three other people inside when he toured the massive house of worship. Nevertheless, the basilica is flaunted in the country’s tourism promotion. This (ever so slightly dated) tourism video shows the Basilique Notre-Dame de la Paix de Yamoussoukro alongside golf courses, hotels and casinos.
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Post by anansi on Feb 11, 2018 3:56:42 GMT -5
There is a big difference tho, trade and finance increased and unlike Felix, his institutions weren't just religious, centers of higher learning went alongside those religious institutions. An argument could be made that he bought covetous eyes and negative attention to his realm as folks tried to beat a path to his gold centuries later.
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mike111
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Post by mike111 on Feb 11, 2018 9:51:20 GMT -5
I claim no special scholarship for Sub-Saharan Africa, so what you say may be true, but to me the pieces don't fit. Accourding to Wiki: Musa is known to have visited the Mamluk sultan of Egypt, Al-Nasir Muhammad, in July 1324. (For those who don't know: Mamluks are former Turkish Slave soldiers of the original Arabs (Blacks): who intelligently Rebelled and took over Egypt from those dumb-assed Blacks. Then they called in the rest of their people from Central Asia, and eventually took over the entire region, including large parts of Europe). But what I'm missing is who ruled Arabia and the holy cities at that time that Musa arrived? You see, the Turks took over the religion of Islam in 1075, when the Seljuq Turks under Toghril Beg forced the last Arab caliph al-Qa'im to ceed power and retire. But the Turks didn't seem to have actually invaded the Arabian Peninsula until Sultan Mahmud II (1808-39), had his Pasha in Egypt, Muhammad Ali, send an expedition to Arabia that between 1811 and 1813 expelled the Wahhabis from the Hejaz. In a further campaign (1816-18), Ibrahim Pasha, the viceroy's eldest son, defeated the Wahhabis in their homeland of Najd, and brought central Arabia under Albanian Turk control.
Point being, when Musa was in Arabia in 1324, was he praying with religious direction from Blacks or Turks, and did it matter to him?
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mike111
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Post by mike111 on Feb 11, 2018 9:58:09 GMT -5
^That is another peculiarity of Africans, they don't seem to mind being religiously insulted by the Turkish religion of Islam. There are many passages in the Islam holy books which speak very insultingly about Blacks, since Arabs were and still are Black, Turks must have added those passages. My question is were those passages in the books of Musa's time? And did he just let it go, as they do today?
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mike111
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Post by mike111 on Feb 11, 2018 10:30:23 GMT -5
^Just one more interesting religious factoid: The Protestant religions were created specifically to provide religious focus and justification for overthrowing Black (Catholic) rule in 1500s-1600s Europe. Yet the modern Christian Protest religions (of which there is a hundred or more) Bibles are relatively respectful of Blacks, even to attributing some important personages to the race. Meanwhile (as far as I know), The former Slave Bilal is the highest ranking Black in Islam. Wiki: An Islamic miniature from Siyer-i Nebi (16th century, Turkey), depicting Bilal giving the call to prayer. Note, he is the only Black Muslim. Below this picture, Bilal is identified as: Ethnicity - Abyssinian people or Ethiopian. My, my, Islam's Turk overlords (wherever they might be), sure don't seem to like Blacks much. But Blacks sure do love them.
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Post by anansi on Feb 11, 2018 11:51:36 GMT -5
Fragmented rule by locals after the collapse of the Abbasid rule by the Mongols, the Turks did not show up until the 1600s, When Mansa Musa turned up in Egypt,he was dealing with the Abbasid sultan, not any Turks, the art you put out is from Turkey, however racist overtones is found in all Abrahamic religions as well as the concept of equality under god. Al Jahiz pointed that out centuries earlier.
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mike111
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Post by mike111 on Feb 11, 2018 13:05:45 GMT -5
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Post by anansi on Feb 11, 2018 15:13:44 GMT -5
OK I was referring to the Abbasid but yeah the Mameluke came on the tail end.
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Post by zarahan on Feb 11, 2018 22:11:15 GMT -5
Mike111 says: Clearly Mansa Musa was the role model for President Félix Houphouët-Boigny, the Ivory Coast’s first President. Houphouët-Boigny was ruling a country already in dire financial straits when he decided it would be a good idea to build a luxurious Vatican clone in the outskirts of his hometown of Yamoussoukro, surrounded by poverty. After importing 30 acres of marble from Italy and 23,000 square feet of contemporary stained glass from France,
Yeah, this was a massive waste- think what 300 million could have done for Ivory Coast if put into agriculture and industry and education.
(For those who don't know: Mamluks are former Turkish Slave soldiers of the original Arabs (Blacks):
Not quite clear how you mean. Who would be the original blacks who are Arab, and in what sense are they originally black? You later hold that Islamic writers say many insulting things about blacks. So are the original people black prior to the coming of Islam? Did Islam bring non-white Turks into the region in a position of power over the blacks?
That is another peculiarity of Africans, they don't seem to mind being religiously insulted by the Turkish religion of Islam. There are many passages in the Islam holy books which speak very insultingly about Blacks, since Arabs were and still are Black, Turks must have added those passages. My question is were those passages in the books of Musa's time? And did he just let it go, as they do today?
What passages you talking about? Outside writings by various no-name Islamic commentators or the 2 key holy writings (1) the Quran, and (2) the Hadiths or reports of things Muhammad said and did, forming the basis of Sharia law, and often accepted as authoritative documents in Islam, second only to the Qu'ran?
The Protestant religions were created specifically to provide religious focus and justification for overthrowing Black (Catholic) rule in 1500s-1600s Europe.
Sounds rather dubious. WHile there were some blacks in the Medieval Catholic Church, Protestantism did not come about specifically or solely to overthrow said blacks. No credible historian makes any such claim, and it simply does not fit the historical facts. Can you cite anyone credible -(I don't mean a random website or some guy claiming something in his own private writings), a recognized historian that backs up his stuff with hard historical evidence? Again, not a random Freemason CLAIMING this and that. For example black historian JA Rogers shows there were blacks in the Catholic Church but he does not go about saying Protestantism came about as some sort of anti-black thing. That is extremely dubious.
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Post by zarahan on Feb 11, 2018 22:35:26 GMT -5
Fragmented rule by locals after the collapse of the Abbasid rule by the Mongols, the Turks did not show up until the 1600s, When Mansa Musa turned up in Egypt,he was dealing with the Abbasid sultan, not any Turks, the art you put out is from Turkey, however racist overtones is found in all Abrahamic religions as well as the concept of equality under god. Al Jahiz pointed that out centuries earlier. Yeah I wonder about some of this too. If the Turks did not show up until about 1600, how could they be overthrowing the blacks centuries earlier, if they ain't even arrived yet? But lets assume that it was Turks under the white Muhammad that swept into Arabia bringing Islam and subjugating and/or displacing the blacks. OK, but the Mamluks came some 2 centuries after Islam was already established, so they would be taking over from the already established white Turks, not the dispossessed blacks. There are ways Mike can tighten up some of these claims but perhaps he can explain some of these contradictions in specific detail.
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mike111
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Post by mike111 on Feb 12, 2018 9:34:23 GMT -5
zarahan (nice picture of Woody): though I consider it an obligation to teach, what you ask is too much. It would be impossible to present that much information in just a few posts. What I can do is direct you to where you can find the facts for yourself - which I will do in the following posts.
As to the race of Muhammad, I made no claim one way or the other. But I suspect the Islamic prohibition against creating pictures of him, had that in mind. The fact that the desert Arab tribes - the authentic Arabs - refused to follow Muhammad until he defeated and subjugated them, gives possible credence to the claims that he was a Bactrian or from one of those other White tribes of the far eastern part of the Persian Empire.
All that aside, you said this: Quote - Sounds rather dubious. While there were some blacks in the Medieval Catholic Church, Protestantism did not come about specifically or solely to overthrow said blacks. No credible historian makes any such claim, and it simply does not fit the historical facts.
I have been at this for a long time:
Those are the words of a WHITE person.
Most Blacks know that White history is made-up lies, and would never say such a thing.
Are you in fact lioness from ES, Black avatar and all?
But no matter, I will answer the question with the rest.
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mike111
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Post by mike111 on Feb 12, 2018 9:55:50 GMT -5
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Post by mindovermatter on Feb 12, 2018 9:56:36 GMT -5
Mike there is definitely evidence that Mohammad was infact some sort of White imposter either from Europe, (yes as silly as that sounds) or as you said from the steppe regions of the Persian empire where White Scythian and Bactrian tribes historically had a presence in. There is recent research surfacing that the Roman empire and the Vatican church actually played a role in the formation of Islam, and actually aided it in it's creation but this information has been covered up for the establishment of narratives.
Case in point, look at this quote:
And this video by the Islam critic David Wood, is an eye opening expose of how Islam is infact some sort of covert color based albino supremacist religion that fooled and deceived non-white people worldwide:
^^^Yeah this religion doesn't sound like, the people's revolutionary movement for the rights and representation of black/colored peoples of the world to me!
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mike111
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Post by mike111 on Feb 12, 2018 10:09:48 GMT -5
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Post by mindovermatter on Feb 12, 2018 12:41:46 GMT -5
^^^The Turks can't be the entire reason for quotes like that; obviously it had some truth to it to be true. Also the Arabian peninsula was well acquainted with the Greco-Roman empires and Persian/Assyrian empires, and had well known trade routes running through it reaching Northern Africa. Since all these other places were well acquainted with white steppe tribes like the Scythians and Goths/Sarmatians, and since the White steppe Scythians ended up conquering as far as reaching the doorsteps of Egypt. Isn't there a possibility that this isn't a Turkish/Turkic distortion at all?
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