mike111
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Post by mike111 on Feb 12, 2018 14:26:24 GMT -5
^What are you talking about?
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Post by mellomusings on Feb 12, 2018 14:59:22 GMT -5
^What are you talking about? Good question, what does any of your ramblings have to do with the former of what I posted concerning the Hajj of Mansa Musa?
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Post by mellomusings on Feb 12, 2018 15:03:41 GMT -5
Mike there is definitely evidence that Mohammad was infact some sort of White imposter either from Europe, (yes as silly as that sounds) or as you said from the steppe regions of the Persian empire where White Scythian and Bactrian tribes historically had a presence in. There is recent research surfacing that the Roman empire and the Vatican church actually played a role in the formation of Islam, and actually aided it in it's creation but this information has been covered up for the establishment of narratives. Case in point, look at this quote: And this video by the Islam critic David Wood, is an eye opening expose of how Islam is infact some sort of covert color based albino supremacist religion that fooled and deceived non-white people worldwide: ^^^Yeah this religion doesn't sound like, the people's revolutionary movement for the rights and representation of black/colored peoples of the world to me! This has absolutely nothing to do with this post, it's cool if you want to carry on a conversation about whatever it is you and Mike are going on about just take it to another thread, this is about the account given by the Tarikh-al-Fattash of the Hajj of the famous Musa of Mali not about who or what is or isn't black.
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Post by mindovermatter on Feb 12, 2018 16:09:28 GMT -5
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mike111
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Post by mike111 on Feb 12, 2018 16:31:15 GMT -5
mellomusings - the first reply's were specific to Masa's Haj. You made no comment. The rest is natural outgrowth. If you want to control your thread, do so with input.
MOM - Re. this quote: Scythians set themselves up as rulers of an empire stretching from west Persia through Syria and Judaea to the borders of Egypt.
I believe the boys at Britannica have confused Scythians with Parthians, I know of no Scythian empire that far west. Check it out.
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Post by kel on Feb 12, 2018 18:23:29 GMT -5
1 .Who is Muhammed and did Muhammed ever even really exist ?
2. What is the origin of Islam ?
3. Is it true that the KORAN was not written by Arabs muslims but by Jews/Christians ?
4. What is the stance of Islam on race/blacks ? Is it antiBlack ?? if so, why ?
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Post by zarahan on Feb 12, 2018 23:50:39 GMT -5
But I suspect the Islamic prohibition against creating pictures of him, had that in mind. The fact that the desert Arab tribes - the authentic Arabs - refused to follow Muhammad until he defeated and subjugated them, gives possible credence to the claims that he was a Bactrian or from one of those other White tribes of the far eastern part of the Persian Empire. OK, but tons of scholarship say the opposite of what you are saying, and hold that he was from Arabia, as even the Wiki articles you post attest. None of your pages posted make a credible case that he was not from Arabia. I have been at this for a long time: Those are the words of a WHITE person. Most Blacks know that White history is made-up lies, and would never say such a thing. Are you in fact lioness from ES, Black avatar and all? Me? Lioness? LOL, not at all. "She" or "he" actually has clashed with me several times. But you contradict. You write it's what "white' people say, and "made up lies", but you yourself use the research and writings of white people to push your own particular claims. You are contradicting yourself. If you object to what "white"people say, why are you using "white" references, and "white" research? Even the stuff you post on albinism, or various black kings of Europe, are derived from white research and white writers. If playing "the white card" is your response when people challenge what you say, you are not doing business bro. Diop says to use the best evidence and data available and not be afraid to deal with a challenge using clear evidence, logic and good reasoning. ^I order to answer zarahan's questions, the major players must be clearly identified. These links identify who are truly Arabs - phenotype wise and genetically. http://realhistoryww.com./world_history/ancient/Misc/True_Negros/The_True_Negro_2.htm http://realhistoryww.com./world_history/ancient/Misc/Data_dump/Data_dump.htm OK the links for some reason just loop back to thispage, but I see the video Mindmatter posts below. Fair enough. But look- how come you are using a video by a white guy to make your case? If whites are making up stuff, why are you using white people and white researchers? Could it be you are happy to use white people's work when it suits your own particular point of view? If not, then its "lies"? OK, fair enough. Some Muslim holy writings emphasize Muhammed's whiteness. Th specific listing of body parts seems to indicate that these descriptions are not just metaphorical or symbolic. I think you have made a part of the case here. ^The best place to introduce the Turks is at the University of Calgary: they have an on-line course in conjunction with Britannica. This page introduces them in the west and has a link to Calgary (click Ottoman Turks - Origins of the Ottoman Empire).Once again, the links loop back to this page, but looking at the DataDump page directly, it has very little on the original Arabs being black- no DNA evidence, no anthro data, no arcaheo data etc. You give a link, but the link does very little to support your case. On the TrueNegro page it shows the hot climate of Arabia, OK, and various Europeans (WHOA- WHITEPEOPLE!!) are quoted as saying the peoples of Arabia are often dark people, and various Assyrian depictions are shown of what may be Arabs (some with hooked noses looking like modern Arabs), then it jumps to "Turk" taking over. I have no problem with this per se. Some DNA is finally discussed and the study proferred says that yes there has been ancient African migration into Arabia, and it also shows Eurasian and Indian migration coming after. OK, I have no problem with the latter DNA study- it does show the later migration of peoples from elsewhere into the Arabian peninsula. Interestingly enough the study -Amero 2008- does not show much Turk DNA as such in the mix. It shows more Indian, Indonesian etc. ii]^^I do have a quibble on an aside with Amero in that he uses mostly Arabized northern Egyptians to make comparisons to others, while ignoring the "darker" Egyptians of the south who are jsut as "representative" of Egypt as anybody else.. But anyhow.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In summary, I have no problem with the notion of migrations to the Arabian peninsula of peoples from "Eurasia" or India at various times, but almost all of the evidence you provided is based on the research of white people. Why are you using white people's research and citations in your own posts, if most of what they write, is as you say above, "made up lies"? This seems contradictory. Quote: "We must form a scientific spirit capable of seeing even the weaknesses of our own proofs, of seeing the unfinished side of our work and committing ourselves to completing it. You understand? Therefore we should then have a work which could honestly stand criticism, because what we’ve done would have been placed on a scientific plane." —Cheikh Anta Diop, Interview with Harun Kofi Wangara (Harold G. Lawrence)www.cheikhantadiop.net/cheikh_anta_diop_biograph.htm
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mike111
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Post by mike111 on Feb 12, 2018 23:50:54 GMT -5
^I certainly have no special knowledge on the subject of Islam, all I have is conventional sources of information. Biography of Prophet Muhammad by Dr. A. Zahoor and Dr. Z. Haq http://realhistoryww.com./world_history/ancient/Misc/Canaan/Prophet_Muhammad.htm Medieval Muslim texts displaying a Hatred of Blacks: http://realhistoryww.com./world_history/ancient/Misc/Arab_texts/prologue.htm According to Wiki: Shortly after Muhammad's death, the Quran was compiled by his companions who wrote down and memorized parts of it. These codices had differences that motivated the Caliph Uthman to establish a standard version now known as Uthman's codex, which is generally considered the archetype of the Quran known today. There are, however, variant readings, with mostly minor differences in meaning. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran
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mike111
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Post by mike111 on Feb 12, 2018 23:57:49 GMT -5
^The thing that I do have good information on, is the Turks (that is Turks of all kinds: including Khazars (Jews and Turk mulattoes) hatred of Blacks. Note the pictures at the bottom of this page. http://realhistoryww.com./world_history/ancient/Canaan_3a.htm
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Post by mindovermatter on Feb 13, 2018 2:32:30 GMT -5
Mike on the topic of Muhammed and the death cult that he started, and yes we can all agree at this point that's it a regressive death cult and was one from the very beginning anyway, all the abrahamic desert religions are garbage, I came across this interesting thought: I was watching a lecture on the history of Islam recently and I recently came across something interesting: www.city-data.com/forum/islam/1962358-muhammads-flying-heaven-winged-horse.htmlAccording to Islamic history, the Islamic prophet Muhammed was flown to 7 heavens on a winged white horse like creature; and when I listened to someone talking about this, I couldn't help but stop and think about all the stuff that we have talked about. The thing is that horses/horse like animals, especially white horses, are not predominant or a major animal in the Arabian peninsula region, and winged horses do not seem to be a major animal motif in semitic Arabian mythologies and cultures but steppe cultures/mythologies. So how could something like this story, very un-semitic and un-arabic find itself in a major Islamic text involving an animal cultural motif not characteristic of "semitic" cultures? This horse taking someone to 7 heavens, is very reminiscent and characteristic of Indo-European/Turkic/steppe cultures and their mythos rather then cultures of the Arabian deserts. I would like to ask what exactly does everyone make of this? Is there something hidden here that's not being suggested by mainstream scholars?
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mike111
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Post by mike111 on Feb 13, 2018 9:13:52 GMT -5
MOM - I really have no interest in religion per se, it's just that Islam embodies certain strange paradoxes.
First - it is described as an Arab religion, Arabs are Black people: the most populous Muslim nation is Indonesia, a Black, Mongol, and Mulatto nation. The only purely Albino Islamic nations are in Eastern Europe, yet the religion has all of those insults to Black people.
The people who took Islam from it's infancy into the modern era, and apparently oversaw the writing of it's holy books (Turks): immediately after the breakup of their Empire, and the creation of the Turkish nation (1923), they soon did this:
Wiki: Secularism was first introduced with the 1928 amendment of the Constitution of 1924, which removed the provision declaring that the "Religion of the State is Islam", and with the later reforms of Turkey's first president Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, which set the administrative and political requirements to create a modern, democratic, secular state, aligned with Kemalism.
Kemalism, as it was implemented by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, was defined by sweeping political, social, cultural and religious reforms designed to separate the new Turkish state from its Ottoman predecessor and embrace a Westernized way of living, including the establishment of democracy, secularism, state support of the sciences and free education, many of which were first introduced to Turkey during Atatürk's presidency in his reforms.
To the point: now that they no longer need Islam to keep the Blacks and "Coloreds" in line, the White Islamic nations are trying to put distance between them and Islam, and trying to get into NATO.
Meanwhile, those in the Black and Mulatto nations (those that Islam insults) are clamoring for a return to the caliphate.
Can anyone explain what that all means?
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mike111
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Post by mike111 on Feb 13, 2018 9:30:19 GMT -5
The thing is that horses/horse like animals, especially white horses, are not predominant or a major animal in the Arabian peninsula region, and winged horses do not seem to be a major animal motif in semitic Arabian mythologies and cultures but steppe cultures/mythologies. So how could something like this story, very un-semitic and un-arabic find itself in a major Islamic text involving an animal cultural motif not characteristic of "semitic" cultures? This horse taking someone to 7 heavens, is very reminiscent and characteristic of Indo-European/Turkic/steppe cultures and their mythos rather then cultures of the Arabian deserts. I would like to ask what exactly does everyone make of this? Is there something hidden here that's not being suggested by mainstream scholars? The Arabian peninsula is separated from India by the Strait of Hormuz which is just 29 miles wide. Harappa and Mohenjo-daro were the classical Indian civilizations, circa 3,000 B.C. The Unicorn (horse) was an important Harappan icon. (The pictures won't show so you will have to copy and paste the address). http://realhistoryww.com./world_history/ancient/Images_Indus/Indus_new_99.jpg
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Post by mindovermatter on Feb 13, 2018 9:54:21 GMT -5
Indus Valley is 8,000 years old and predated Sumer and Egypt and all other ancient civilizations as has been proven recently by archeological evidence. That date should be updated...
Also these beliefs and custom of white winged horses was part of Indo-European mythology such as Greek, Celtic, Germanic as well as the Turkic/Turkish groups of the Eurasian steppes, which all pin point to their united steppe origins.
This belief is not really part of Indian Hindu mythos or shows evidence that of it being part of the ancient Indian civilization as per Rig Vedic texts. This is obviously a new Eurasian steppes cultural motif and fairy tale variant. There is no evidence of such cultural traits like this showing up in ancient the Arabian peninsula and North African cultures so far yet.
So this has to be more proof, if this was the Qu'ran, that WHITE Turkic tribes did indeed rewrite the Quran and other major Islamic texts to suit their needs and agenda, and in a Freudian slip inserted their own cultural beliefs and folklore acciddently into the Quran while doing it
OR
This is evidence, if this idea and concept was not a later rendition put by new writers in these Islamic texts, that Muhammad was indeed part of some White Scythian or Parthian tribe leftover in the region, or had affiliations with them somehow that led to this bizarre folklorr idea entering into the Islamic texts.
OR
This idea was inserted and put inside by other third parties contemporary with Muhammad and parties that were in contact with the individual that would later become the persona of Muhammad, the Vatican and Roman church cannot be ruled out, as recent evidence is showing these civilizations had extensive contact with the Arabian Peninsula region.
OR
Muhammad came across this idea and motif while travelling throughout the Arabian peninsula region and regions adjacent to it, came across cultures and people's from the Eurasian steppes, liked the idea and decided to assimilate and steal such a concept and put it into the Q'uran.
My hunch is the Islamic texts are full of contradictions, inaccuracies, lies, distortions, with all sorts of things that are non-Arabic that it was a combination of the above....
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mike111
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Post by mike111 on Feb 13, 2018 10:09:17 GMT -5
In summary, I have no problem with the notion of migrations to the Arabian peninsula of peoples from "Eurasia" or India at various times, but almost all of the evidence you provided is based on the research of white people. Why are you using white people's research and citations in your own posts, if most of what they write, is as you say above, "made up lies"? This seems contradictory. Quote: "We must form a scientific spirit capable of seeing even the weaknesses of our own proofs, of seeing the unfinished side of our work and committing ourselves to completing it. You understand? Therefore we should then have a work which could honestly stand criticism, because what we’ve done would have been placed on a scientific plane." —Cheikh Anta Diop, Interview with Harun Kofi Wangara (Harold G. Lawrence)www.cheikhantadiop.net/cheikh_anta_diop_biograph.htmModern civilization is based on the accumulated acquired knowledge of humans from all around the world, over thousands of years. Yet you try to paraphrase Diop into saying that only homegrown African knowledge can be trusted. Though I haven't read Diop, I understand him to be an intelligent man, and I'm sure he would never say such a thing. As a matter of fact, many scholars attribute sub-Saharan Africa's backwardness to lack of intercourse with the outside world. As for myself, I often use Albino studies: when the practice, procedures and samples are good, I use the data: when those things are bad, I make fun of them. All of that is just common sense, which tends to prove that I'm right about you.
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mike111
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Post by mike111 on Feb 13, 2018 10:48:55 GMT -5
MOM - I really have no interest in religion per se, it's just that Islam embodies certain strange paradoxes. First - it is described as an Arab religion, Arabs are Black people: the most populous Muslim nation is Indonesia, a Black, Mongol, and Mulatto nation. The only purely Albino Islamic nations are in Eastern Europe, yet the religion has all of those insults to Black people. The people who took Islam from it's infancy into the modern era, and apparently oversaw the writing of it's holy books (Turks): immediately after the breakup of their Empire, and the creation of the Turkish nation (1923), they soon did this: Wiki: Secularism was first introduced with the 1928 amendment of the Constitution of 1924, which removed the provision declaring that the "Religion of the State is Islam", and with the later reforms of Turkey's first president Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, which set the administrative and political requirements to create a modern, democratic, secular state, aligned with Kemalism. Kemalism, as it was implemented by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, was defined by sweeping political, social, cultural and religious reforms designed to separate the new Turkish state from its Ottoman predecessor and embrace a Westernized way of living, including the establishment of democracy, secularism, state support of the sciences and free education, many of which were first introduced to Turkey during Atatürk's presidency in his reforms. To the point: now that they no longer need Islam to keep the Blacks and "Coloreds" in line, the White Islamic nations are trying to put distance between them and Islam, and trying to get into NATO. Meanwhile, those in the Black and Mulatto nations (those that Islam insults) are clamoring for a return to the caliphate. Can anyone explain what that all means? Muslim world - From Wikipedia.Islamic states - Islamic states have adopted Islam as the ideological foundation of state and constitution. Afghanistan| Iran | Mauritania | Oman | Saudi Arabia | Yemen State religion - The following Muslim-majority nation-states have endorsed Islam as their state religion.
Algeria | Bahrain | Brunei | Comoros | Djibouti | Egypt | Iraq | Jordan | Kuwait | Libya | Maldives | Malaysia | Morocco | Pakistan | Qatar | Sahrawi Republic | Somalia | Tunisia | United Arab Emirates. Unclear / No Declaration - These are neutral states where the constitutional or official announcement regarding status of religion is not clear or unstated.
Bangladesh | Indonesia | Lebanon | Syria Secular states - Secular states in Muslim world have declared separation between civil/government affairs and religion.
Albania | Azerbaijan | Bosnia-Herzegovina | Burkina Faso | Chad | The Gambia | Guinea | Guinea-Bissau | Kazakhstan | Kosovo | Kyrgyzstan | Mali | Niger | Nigeria | Northern Cyprus | Senegal | Sierra Leone | Tajikistan | Turkey | Turkmenistan | Uzbekistan | State of Palestine | Palestine.
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