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Post by mellomusings on May 2, 2018 11:16:30 GMT -5
So I wasn't exactly sure where to post this but since it's concerning religion (Islam to be specific) so I'll just rant from here. More often times than not do I notice most "Afrocentrics", or any other assortment of pro-black types when discussing African history rail against Islam which is understanble to an extent. They sing the praises of Mansa Musa yet he was noted as a pious and devout Muslim, cling to the scholarly legacy of Timbuktu despite it's overt Islamic influence, quote Malcom X all day, and go on about how the Moors ruled over Europe (Southern Europe to be extact i.e. Spain) even though it was obvious that they were overwhelmingly Muslim. Of course some of the predictable responses I'm going to get is the Muslim slave trade which Africans themselves participated in and if anyone is actually aware of history would know that the trade in African slaves only intensified only after Muslims were cut off from areas such as parts of Eastern Europe and other parts as well but this isn't to diminish what took place just to point out obvious facts that both sides (Afrocentrics & Eurocentrics) like to cherry pick and use conveniently when they see fit in an argument. I would add more but that's all I got for now, but when discussing the matter let's try to keep it half-way civil please.
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Post by nebsen on May 2, 2018 17:12:59 GMT -5
So I wasn't exactly sure where to post this but since it's concerning religion (Islam to be specific) so I'll just rant from here. More often times than not do I notice most "Afrocentrics", or any other assortment of pro-black types when discussing African history rail against Islam which is understanble to an extent. They sing the praises of Mansa Musa yet he was noted as a pious and devout Muslim, cling to the scholarly legacy of Timbuktu despite it's overt Islamic influence, quote Malcom X all day, and go on about how the Moors ruled over Europe (Southern Europe to be extact i.e. Spain) even though it was obvious that they were overwhelmingly Muslim. Of course some of the predictable responses I'm going to get is the Muslim slave trade which Africans themselves participated in and if anyone is actually aware of history would know that the trade in African slaves only intensified only after Muslims were cut off from areas such as parts of Eastern Europe and other parts as well but this isn't to diminish what took place just to point out obvious facts that both sides (Afrocentrics & Eurocentrics) like to cherry pick and use conveniently when they see fit in an argument. I would add more but that's all I got for now, but when discussing the matter let's try to keep it half-way civil please. This short video might help in the contradictions you speak of !
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Post by mellomusings on May 4, 2018 16:57:51 GMT -5
So I wasn't exactly sure where to post this but since it's concerning religion (Islam to be specific) so I'll just rant from here. More often times than not do I notice most "Afrocentrics", or any other assortment of pro-black types when discussing African history rail against Islam which is understanble to an extent. They sing the praises of Mansa Musa yet he was noted as a pious and devout Muslim, cling to the scholarly legacy of Timbuktu despite it's overt Islamic influence, quote Malcom X all day, and go on about how the Moors ruled over Europe (Southern Europe to be extact i.e. Spain) even though it was obvious that they were overwhelmingly Muslim. Of course some of the predictable responses I'm going to get is the Muslim slave trade which Africans themselves participated in and if anyone is actually aware of history would know that the trade in African slaves only intensified only after Muslims were cut off from areas such as parts of Eastern Europe and other parts as well but this isn't to diminish what took place just to point out obvious facts that both sides (Afrocentrics & Eurocentrics) like to cherry pick and use conveniently when they see fit in an argument. I would add more but that's all I got for now, but when discussing the matter let's try to keep it half-way civil please. This short video might help in the contradictions you speak of ! I've already watched all of Home Team's videos which I highly appreciate but concerning the Arab slave trade of Africans again it always has existed but it wasn't until after various Muslim powers for example the Ottomans were pushed out of parts of Europe and the Mediterranean where they acquired majority of their slaves before being expelled and forced to rely solely on the Trans-Saharan trade for slaves. Anyway concerning Home Team's video I get what he was saying but the truth is whether people want to accept it or not is that Africans (of various tribes) participated in both slave trades willingly, even though I love and admire the Sahelian/Sudanic states they were known for their predatory slave raiding behavior as well as acquiring slaves from further South through trade, even before the advent of Islam within the Sahel the Ghanaian Empire participated in the trade as well. I'm not interested in feel good history, viewing things through rose tinted lenses, or sugarcoating the truth. Again I understand why most people have beef with Islam but acting as if the Trans-Saharan slave trade was solely perpetuated by Arabs alone is being dishonest and denying African agency. But if Islam and slavery is such an issue for people then all those things I mentioned in my previous post should be viewed with the same contempt due to their relation/association with Islam.
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Post by zarahan on May 5, 2018 0:52:47 GMT -5
Mello says: So I wasn't exactly sure where to post this but since it's concerning religion (Islam to be specific) so I'll just rant from here. More often times than not do I notice most "Afrocentrics", or any other assortment of pro-black types when discussing African history rail against Islam which is understanble to an extent. They sing the praises of Mansa Musa yet he was noted as a pious and devout Muslim, cling to the scholarly legacy of Timbuktu despite it's overt Islamic influence, quote Malcom X all day, and go on about how the Moors ruled over Europe (Southern Europe to be extact i.e. Spain) even though it was obvious that they were overwhelmingly Muslim. I think there are some points that can be questioned in your comments, and I think you ought to look in more detail at the historical record. before making such sweeping, (and innacurate) claims. 1-- I would not say most “Afrocentrics” rail against Islam. SOME Afrocentrics rail against Islam, for very good reasons. For example some pro-Muslim types like to make out as if nothing much was happening in backward Africa until Arabs showed up with Islam, then “civilization” came., and how under Muslim rule slavery was so much more beneficent, “kinder and gentler”. Right.. uh huh.. Why on earth would "Afrocentrics" or any informed black person accept such dubious claims? That being said most of them give Islam credit for of its contributions. You yourself acknowledge how Mansa Musa, for Timbuktu, etc etc is respectfully spoken of, so your own comments contradict any notion that “most” of them are anti-Islam. One of the leading Afrocentric scholars, Ivan van sertima had a book out on the Moors for example – “The Golden Tradeof the Moors” and he gives credit where it is due. You say Of course some of the predictable responses I'm going to get is the Muslim slave trade which Africans themselves participated in and if anyone is actually aware of history would know that the trade in African slaves only intensified only after Muslims were cut off from areas such as parts of Eastern Europe and other parts as well.. 2-- But this is not so at all, and it seems you are not aware of the basic historical facts. The Arabs were raiding Africa for slaves LONG BEFORE they got to Eastern Europe, and it was much easier to bring tens of thousands of blacks slaves from the nearby Sudan just a few hundred miles away, than from Eastern Europe some thousands of miles away. This is basic history you should have known. Long before Muhammed, Arabs and Islam came to power there were ALREADY plenty of black slaves in place, in Arabia. The people who cleaned up and took out the garbage in Mecca for example were usually black slaves. You say: but concerning the Arab slave trade of Africans again it always has existed but it wasn't until after various Muslim powers for example the Ottomans were pushed out of parts of Europe and the Mediterranean where they acquired majority of their slaves before being expelled and forced to rely solely on the Trans-Saharan trade for slaves. 3-- This is inaccurate, and shows you have not taken the time to read the basic history, but are simple making “off the cuff” claims. Again, there were ALREADY plenty of black slaves in place, in Arabia, before the Ottomans rose to power, and before Islam gained power. The Ottomans were beginning to be pushed out of Europe around the 1700s. Black slaves were around in Arabia, long BEFORE this. Indeed, one of the largest black slave rebellions of all time took place OVER 700 years PRIOR to this, and it was against Arab slave owners, the little known Zanj Rebellion where black slaves, toiling in the brutal salt marshes of Iraq, rose for freedom, and for over a decade, kicked ass against all Arabized comers, even invading and taking over some parts of Iran. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanj_Rebellion they quote Malcom X all day, and go on about how the Moors ruled over Europe (Southern Europe to be extact i.e. Spain) even though it was obvious that they were overwhelmingly Muslim. 4-- So what? The Muslim cultural universe provided SOME frameworks to a wider world, which some blacks took advantage of. Nothing unusual or special about that. Europeans took advantage of the knowledge of Egypt, and the Middle East (from plant and animal domestication, partial writing advances, mathematics, astronomy etc etc), and they took advantage of Chinese technology such as gunpowder, printing, the compass, etc to build up their own civilizations. They are some of the biggest copiers and borrowers around. Even their Christian religion was not invented in Europe, but came from the sub-tropical Middle East. But this has not stopped these white copiers and borrowers from using some of the things they copied and borrowed to announce pride in their heritage, and celebrating it whenever possible. Why is it “a problem” when black folk do the same?
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Post by mellomusings on May 5, 2018 12:01:58 GMT -5
Mello says: So I wasn't exactly sure where to post this but since it's concerning religion (Islam to be specific) so I'll just rant from here. More often times than not do I notice most "Afrocentrics", or any other assortment of pro-black types when discussing African history rail against Islam which is understanble to an extent. They sing the praises of Mansa Musa yet he was noted as a pious and devout Muslim, cling to the scholarly legacy of Timbuktu despite it's overt Islamic influence, quote Malcom X all day, and go on about how the Moors ruled over Europe (Southern Europe to be extact i.e. Spain) even though it was obvious that they were overwhelmingly Muslim. I think there are some points that can be questioned in your comments, and I think you ought to look in more detail at the historical record. before making such sweeping, (and innacurate) claims. 1-- I would not say most “Afrocentrics” rail against Islam. SOME Afrocentrics rail against Islam, for very good reasons. For example some pro-Muslim types like to make out as if nothing much was happening in backward Africa until Arabs showed up with Islam, then “civilization” came., and how under Muslim rule slavery was so much more beneficent, “kinder and gentler”. Right.. uh huh.. Why on earth would "Afrocentrics" or any informed black person accept such dubious claims? That being said most of them give Islam credit for of its contributions. You yourself acknowledge how Mansa Musa, for Timbuktu, etc etc is respectfully spoken of, so your own comments contradict any notion that “most” of them are anti-Islam. One of the leading Afrocentric scholars, Ivan van sertima had a book out on the Moors for example – “The Golden Tradeof the Moors” and he gives credit where it is due. You say Of course some of the predictable responses I'm going to get is the Muslim slave trade which Africans themselves participated in and if anyone is actually aware of history would know that the trade in African slaves only intensified only after Muslims were cut off from areas such as parts of Eastern Europe and other parts as well.. 2-- But this is not so at all, and it seems you are not aware of the basic historical facts. The Arabs were raiding Africa for slaves LONG BEFORE they got to Eastern Europe, and it was much easier to bring tens of thousands of blacks slaves from the nearby Sudan just a few hundred miles away, than from Eastern Europe some thousands of miles away. This is basic history you should have known. Long before Muhammed, Arabs and Islam came to power there were ALREADY plenty of black slaves in place, in Arabia. The people who cleaned up and took out the garbage in Mecca for example were usually black slaves. You say: but concerning the Arab slave trade of Africans again it always has existed but it wasn't until after various Muslim powers for example the Ottomans were pushed out of parts of Europe and the Mediterranean where they acquired majority of their slaves before being expelled and forced to rely solely on the Trans-Saharan trade for slaves. 3-- This is inaccurate, and shows you have not taken the time to read the basic history, but are simple making “off the cuff” claims. Again, there were ALREADY plenty of black slaves in place, in Arabia, before the Ottomans rose to power, and before Islam gained power. The Ottomans were beginning to be pushed out of Europe around the 1700s. Black slaves were around in Arabia, long BEFORE this. Indeed, one of the largest black slave rebellions of all time took place OVER 700 years PRIOR to this, and it was against Arab slave owners, the little known Zanj Rebellion where black slaves, toiling in the brutal salt marshes of Iraq, rose for freedom, and for over a decade, kicked ass against all Arabized comers, even invading and taking over some parts of Iran. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanj_Rebellion they quote Malcom X all day, and go on about how the Moors ruled over Europe (Southern Europe to be extact i.e. Spain) even though it was obvious that they were overwhelmingly Muslim. 4-- So what? The Muslim cultural universe provided SOME frameworks to a wider world, which some blacks took advantage of. Nothing unusual or special about that. Europeans took advantage of the knowledge of Egypt, and the Middle East (from plant and animal domestication, partial writing advances, mathematics, astronomy etc etc), and they took advantage of Chinese technology such as gunpowder, printing, the compass, etc to build up their own civilizations. They are some of the biggest copiers and borrowers around. Even their Christian religion was not invented in Europe, but came from the sub-tropical Middle East. But this has not stopped these white copiers and borrowers from using some of the things they copied and borrowed to announce pride in their heritage, and celebrating it whenever possible. Why is it “a problem” when black folk do the same? I already noted that the Arab slave trade was already existen before the advent and penetration of Islam further South, so you're not really telling me anything I wasn't already informed of. And I was speaking of the average laymen and not of scholars. Everything else you stated is irrelevant and I don't see how I contradicted myself. And who says black people shouldn't be proud of those accomplishments? What made you suggest that I think otherwise? I just think it's stupid how some people can praise those achievements and be anti-Islamic, Islam has had a far larger impact on Africa other than slavery that would've existed regardless if Islam had even existed or not. Maybe I should've taken more time to actually articulate my point more thoroughly but anyway whatever I always appreciate responses regardless if people disagree. Iron sharpens iron.
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Post by zarahan on May 5, 2018 20:38:20 GMT -5
OK, fair enough, the prior existence of the trade was not at issue. At issue is any notion that a majority of black slaves in the Islamic world only came about after the Ottomans began to be pushed out of Europe in the 1700s. I don't see this from the record, since so many black slaves were in place in Muslim lands before that time,
I will concede that the Ottomans did not have the same amount of slaves as they had in their glory days of European hegemony before they fell into decline, and no longer had all those hapless white Eastern Europeans to enslave. So increasingly, after/during the 1700s, they turned to Africa. This is reasonable as to the Ottomans, and you have a point in that regard. We both agree on this and only the total black numbers in Islamic lands, invarious eras, might be at issue, given a slave trade before the Ottomans and during Ottoman times by non-Ottoman slavers. I am open to any reasonable data to pin down this question.
Re black people being proud of heritage etc. I concede I may have unfairly implied/extended your comments to those who want to run down Africa by claiming nothing much happened until Arabs showed up. This mentality is unfortunately widespread among some white right wingers and Arabists on the web, and after battling with these people over the years, where you basically have to aggressively challenge everything they say, I may have wrongly implied that bad mentality, in my reply, and I should have taken more time in thoroughly distinguishing and clarifying in my response.
As far as the contradiction, I agree with you in part- there is contradiction. How can they talk up the Islamic contribution but then be so negative on thee other end? As I say above SOME people have this mindset, and it is contradictory, and you are right on that. I think though a balanced outlook could hold both points in mind at the sane time- that of positive Islamic contributions, and also a critical look at the negatives. I think some of the more thoughtful Afrocentric scholars and students can do this balancing act, but I can't say the same for some of these guys on Youtube, or more extreme types in academia and elsewhere.
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Post by anansi on May 5, 2018 22:38:06 GMT -5
OK I want to be careful here, when we say Arabs who are we really talking about, eg, Tippu Tip, a notorious trader in slaves is described as an Arab, when in fact he was a Swahili trader and raider, Arabs as such hardly conducted such raids for the same reasons Europeans of a later era,could not, they would run into local opposition, case in point, the Arabs after invading Egypt had a bunch of pointy sticks jutting from their eyes, they stopped , reassessed their actions and came up with the treaty of Baqt. { The Arabs, who conquered Egypt between 640 and 642, were at first anxious to add Nubia to their domains, but two invasions in 642 and 652 were successfully repulsed. After the second incursion a treaty, called the Baqt, was negotiated, which guaranteed the freedom of Nubia from Arab invasion, and from the imposition of Islam, in return for an annual tribute of slaves.} { The Baqt is a document unique in the annals of Islam, guaranteeing as it does the independence of a non-Muslim nation. It was under this protective umbrella that Nubia's Christian civilization grew and flourished. There are several recorded versions of the treaty, of which the most reliable is probably that of Maqrizi (translated in Burckhardt 1819, 511-512). According to this account the Nubians were to deliver annually 400 head of slaves, but were to receive in exchange gifts of wheat, wine, fine textiles, and horses. Although there were occasional infractions on both sides, the Baqt remained theoretically in force for more than 600 years. The Nubians were however frequently unable to meet its demand for slaves, and in the year 835 they succeeded in negotiating a reduction in the treaty requirement to once every three years. Especially peaceful and profitable relations with Egypt obtained during the years of the Fatimid Caliphate in Egypt (AD 969-1171), for this heretical Shi'ite regime relied heavily on the Nubians for both economic and military support. www.medievalnubia.info/dev/index.php/History} The situation was hardly any different further west,commodities was not in the hands of any Arabs,even the African Islamic states were middlemen in such trades not producers.
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Post by zarahan on May 5, 2018 23:13:15 GMT -5
LOL those pointy sticks were arrows- right about that. Your ref to Treaty of Baqt is interesting. I did not know the text was online. Any links to it? Re the Arabs, yes I think the term takes in a lot of people calling themselves that, and your example shows that the black slave collections were in place from the earliest years of Islam in the area. If it was 400 slaves per year for 600 years that would be almost some 200,000 black slaves just from that Nubia zone alone, until the Muslims eventually conquered or absorbed the area. The reductions negotiated show what a drain this might have been on the Nubian kingdom.
Once the Muslims had a free hand in the Sudan with the end of Kush/Nubia, then the slave treaty limitations would not apply. The long, bloody, brutal history of black enslavement in the Sudan right down to the 21st century, grows out this background. Some Arabized armies of Egypt in the 19th century raided frequently into the Sudan to seize blacks for use as military slaves.
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Post by anansi on May 6, 2018 2:35:05 GMT -5
Hi Zarahan the treaty is in the link, wiki also have it ,but as you know I hate to use them as lil as possible.
Yeah, about post Christian Nubia the Arabs, would filter in and intermarried with the locals, especially folks of means, so it's not conquest in the traditional understanding, hence you can get a class of shiny Black ppl who think they are anything but, how ever, some did accept Arab tradition and culture but regarded themselves as black, it's a bit complex and confusing but, this is what we have today, BTW a state called Funj. [ At the same time that the Ottomans brought northern Nubia into their orbit, a new power, the Funj, had risen in southern Nubia and had supplanted the remnants of the old Christian kingdom of Alwa. In 1504 a Funj leader, Amara Dunqas, founded the Black Sultanate (As Saltana az Zarqa) at Sannar, the capital. The rise of Sinnar kingdom by Funj in 1505 AD opened the way before the establishment of Islamic kingdoms in Sudan, the Fur sultanate was establishment in 1637 AD with Al-Fashir as its capital in western of Sudevemhttps://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/sudan/history-funj.htm ]
These guys eventually became Muslims without being schizophrenic about being Black, hence today you still have problems in Darfur where they originally hailed from in conflict with the equally black Sudanese and Muslim who may have only a smigen of Arab blood,sometimes claiming everything but Black.
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Post by mellomusings on May 6, 2018 11:14:40 GMT -5
OK, fair enough, the prior existence of the trade was not at issue. At issue is any notion that a majority of black slaves in the Islamic world only came about after the Ottomans began to be pushed out of Europe in the 1700s. I don't see this from the record, since so many black slaves were in place in Muslim lands before that time, I will concede that the Ottomans did not have the same amount of slaves as they had in their glory days of European hegemony before they fell into decline, and no longer had all those hapless white Eastern Europeans to enslave. So increasingly, after/during the 1700s, they turned to Africa. This is reasonable as to the Ottomans, and you have a point in that regard. We both agree on this and only the total black numbers in Islamic lands, invarious eras, might be at issue, given a slave trade before the Ottomans and during Ottoman times by non-Ottoman slavers. I am open to any reasonable data to pin down this question. Re black people being proud of heritage etc. I concede I may have unfairly implied/extended your comments to those who want to run down Africa by claiming nothing much happened until Arabs showed up. This mentality is unfortunately widespread among some white right wingers and Arabists on the web, and after battling with these people over the years, where you basically have to aggressively challenge everything they say, I may have wrongly implied that bad mentality, in my reply, and I should have taken more time in thoroughly distinguishing and clarifying in my response. As far as the contradiction, I agree with you in part- there is contradiction. How can they talk up the Islamic contribution but then be so negative on thee other end? As I say above SOME people have this mindset, and it is contradictory, and you are right on that. I think though a balanced outlook could hold both points in mind at the sane time- that of positive Islamic contributions, and also a critical look at the negatives. I think some of the more thoughtful Afrocentric scholars and students can do this balancing act, but I can't say the same for some of these guys on Youtube, or more extreme types in academia and elsewhere. Yeah that's the annoying thing about studying African history especially the Sahelian kingdoms, as you had pointed out world history in general is the diffusion and appropriation of culture and technology, but ironically when it comes to Africa somehow it's viewed as a negative as if those were the only main factors that stimulated the development of these states not to downplay the obvious impact that it had. But if black people are as dumb as people suggest do they honestly think that they would've been able to appropriate that outside knowledge and make it their own as did Arabs and Europeans? And honestly Arabs don't have much room to breath I know Africa isn't exactly paradise but just look at how badly the Middle East has regressed and their continuous humilating defeat at the hands of the West.
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Post by mellomusings on May 6, 2018 11:40:06 GMT -5
Hi Zarahan the treaty is in the link, wiki also have it ,but as you know I hate to use them as lil as possible. Yeah, about post Christian Nubia the Arabs, would filter in and intermarried with the locals, especially folks of means, so it's not conquest in the traditional understanding, hence you can get a class of shiny Black ppl who think they are anything but, how ever, some did accept Arab tradition and culture but regarded themselves as black, it's a bit complex and confusing but, this is what we have today, BTW a state called Funj. [ At the same time that the Ottomans brought northern Nubia into their orbit, a new power, the Funj, had risen in southern Nubia and had supplanted the remnants of the old Christian kingdom of Alwa. In 1504 a Funj leader, Amara Dunqas, founded the Black Sultanate (As Saltana az Zarqa) at Sannar, the capital. The rise of Sinnar kingdom by Funj in 1505 AD opened the way before the establishment of Islamic kingdoms in Sudan, the Fur sultanate was establishment in 1637 AD with Al-Fashir as its capital in western of Sudevemhttps://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/sudan/history-funj.htm ] These guys eventually became Muslims without being schizophrenic about being Black, hence today you still have problems in Darfur where they originally hailed from in conflict with the equally black Sudanese and Muslim who may have only a smigen of Arab blood,sometimes claiming everything but Black. I've read a little on the Funj Kingdom it's interesting the striking similarities it has with the Kingdoms of historical West and Central Sudan for example pre-Islamic traditions survived such as the idea of divine kingship, a minority Muslim elite ruling over a pagan majority as well as some other concepts. If I'm not mistaken there were West Africans that came and settled in the area as well, I recall reading a pdf article discussing the cosmopolitan nature of West Africans and how to and from the pilgrimage to Mecca they would often times settle in various places such as modern day Sudan and start communities. I guess it is true the more you read the more you know. If some people would actually take the time and study Islam in Africa through an unbiased lense (because in truth no one has the moral high ground) they would learn some pretty interesting things for example the Suwarian tradition that was a pacifist ideology that allowed Muslim minorities to operate and continue the practice of their faith in a "pagan" society, they could be found amongst the kingdoms of Ashanti, Dahomey, Yorubaland, and ironically the Mossi kingdom (since they were notorious rivals of Mali and Songhai) as well as smaller polities but that's just to name a few. They would've gave council to the king although the Suwarian tradition prohibits being to engaged in politics, made protective charms, set up schools but they were pretty elementary but if one wished to further their studies they would travel further North, organized trade caravans and kept records of events. Another cool thing is how aware they were of other people and events around them for example the Ashanti were aware of the Fulani conquest of Hausaland as well as other events.
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Post by zarahan on May 7, 2018 20:23:21 GMT -5
Yeah that's the annoying thing about studying African history especially the Sahelian kingdoms, as you had pointed out world history in general is the diffusion and appropriation of culture and technology, but ironically when it comes to Africa somehow it's viewed as a negative as if those were the only main factors that stimulated the development of these states not to downplay the obvious impact that it had. But if black people are as dumb as people suggest do they honestly think that they would've been able to appropriate that outside knowledge and make it their own as did Arabs and Europeans? True enough, and some Arabists can be just as or more racist as the white racists at times. We have seen that from how some deny “anything African” as far as Egypt and try to make out as if Kemet civilization just sprang spontaneously out of the Nile, like some alien growth, divorced from the surrounding African cultures, of which Egypt is one. You can see it too in how thy treat other Africans in Libya, Egypt etc etc.., or even black American or African women. atlantablackstar.com/2017/12/31/racism-egypt-black-women-share-appalling-experiences/ But anyway, African borrowing/adapting certain things from Islamic framework s nothing special. White people themselves borrowed heavily. And honestly Arabs don't have much room to breath I know Africa isn't exactly paradise but just look at how badly the Middle East has regressed and their continuous humilating defeat at the hands of the West.How many forget that the greatest Arab victory in the Middle East in recent times over Western allied regimes was orchestrated by a Black man, one Anwar Sadat.
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Post by zarahan on May 7, 2018 20:31:44 GMT -5
“When we enter salons, there are way too many places that think that we are poor or prostitutes. They will take our money, but do not think that we are worthy or deserving of proper treatment,” says Lauren Clark, who works as a kindergarten teacher in Cairo’s upper-class Zamalek district. Words like , chocolata or abeed (slave) are common thread in the daily ventures of their life as an expatriate; but racist attitudes often take a more subtle – and demeaning - shape... Clark is an M.A. student in Migration and Refugee Studies and Gender and Women’s studies, and is now carrying out research on the black female body in Arab and Islamic culture. “Colourism is very real here,” she explains. “There is a lot of internal racism and self-hatred because of the history of slavery and colonialism.” What Clark points out refers to the historical role of Arabs in the slave trade, a chapter of history often downplayed in the Arab world but crucial to understanding the undermining of the race. According to Nigerian Nobel Prize winning novelist Wole Soyinka, Arabs and Islam are as “guilty of the cultural and spiritual savaging of the Continent” as the West.“The idea that the origin of racism against black people is European is a big misconception,” Clark says. “Everybody likes to point the finger at white people but the first form of slavery against black African people was from Arabs. In the African American community we have this false image of solidarity. Yet, the institution of racism and colourism is strong and more archaic here. Some will smile at us, and some call us abeed (slave) behind our backs.” Her experience as a teacher in some of New Cairo’s most exclusive international schools has done nothing but to reinforce the strength of her claim. “Matrons burst chaotically into the classroom and go straight to my assistant without acknowledging me, and I often overheard staff use the word abeed when referring to me,” she says. Earlier this year, the American Director and the Chief Educational Officer offered her an administrative position, but she was not given a salary raise or a renewed contract. “I was completely underpaid for what I was doing.” At work, in the streets, in stores and while sitting in a café, African women endure the daily burden of double-standards in a society who denounces Western racism but “lives in denial,” as writer Mona Eltahawy puts it, and overlooks racist attitudes perpetrated within their own societies. Her colleague Laurel Butler was publicly ridiculed when a waiter in a café blatantly ignored her. “I was sitting with some expat friends who were blonde Western women, and after taking their order, the waiter ignored me. I tried to ask him again, and he pretended not to hear me and walked away; when I finally went to the counter, I heard them speaking and calling me a 'n i g g e r b i t c h',” says Butler, who is now starting an awareness raising campaign through a Facebook page named after her.." www.cairoscene.com/LifeStyle/The-Reality-of-Racism-in-Egypt
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Post by zarahan on May 7, 2018 22:12:37 GMT -5
Black Panther’ and the anti-black racism of Egyptianswww.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/03/16/black-panther-and-the-anti-black-racism-of-egyptians/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5d77bd144a24"Audiences in Egypt might enjoy the film’s fight scenes. But Egypt’s deep-seated anti-black racism will likely mean that such a long-overdue celebration of Africa — a film that has already crossed the $1 billion mark worldwide — will be lost on Egyptians. Egyptians say “I’m going to Africa” when they visit other countries on the continent, as if Egypt were floating in a bubble of its own. How with such a disavowal of all things African can they appreciate the celebration of all things African that powers through “Black Panther”? An Egyptian friend, Ramy Wahed, who saw “Black Panther” in a theater in Cairo told me he overheard a man on the way out complain at the lack of white (read “beautiful”) actresses in the film. “Egyptians are very racist,” Wahed told me. “I’ve seen it against Sudanese and Nubian friends and against darker-skinned friends who’ve been treated terribly. I’ve seen some people refuse to shake hands with them as if they have leprosy or an infectious disease or something. It really pisses me off.” Racism is fatal in Egypt. In December 2005, Egyptian riot police killed at least 23 unarmed Sudanese refugees, including small children, who had occupied a public park in front of a United Nations office for three months. Last year, prominent Nubian activist Gamal Sorour died in detention. Sorour was among 25 Nubians arrested for staging a peaceful protest “demanding the return of Nubians to their ancestral lands, from which they were evicted in the 1960s to make way for the lake behind the High Dam on the Nile,” as the Associated Press reported. want to tell them of a Sierra Leonean man who was in Cairo to study at al-Azhar University who told me of being spat at in Cairo streets. Or of the teenage South Sudanese girl taunted by an Egyptian woman on the metro who tried to grab her nose and mouth until I intervened. None of our fellow passengers said a word. I apologized to the girl for what she had experienced. “That happens every day,” she told me. Or the black American friend who told me of the disdain with which Egyptian police had treated him, assuming he was Nigerian, until he produced his American passport, and the disdain quickly became disguised with chumminess and Eddie Murphy jokes."
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Post by mellomusings on May 7, 2018 23:18:21 GMT -5
Black Panther’ and the anti-black racism of Egyptianswww.washingtonpost.com/news/global-opinions/wp/2018/03/16/black-panther-and-the-anti-black-racism-of-egyptians/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5d77bd144a24"Audiences in Egypt might enjoy the film’s fight scenes. But Egypt’s deep-seated anti-black racism will likely mean that such a long-overdue celebration of Africa — a film that has already crossed the $1 billion mark worldwide — will be lost on Egyptians. Egyptians say “I’m going to Africa” when they visit other countries on the continent, as if Egypt were floating in a bubble of its own. How with such a disavowal of all things African can they appreciate the celebration of all things African that powers through “Black Panther”? An Egyptian friend, Ramy Wahed, who saw “Black Panther” in a theater in Cairo told me he overheard a man on the way out complain at the lack of white (read “beautiful”) actresses in the film. “Egyptians are very racist,” Wahed told me. “I’ve seen it against Sudanese and Nubian friends and against darker-skinned friends who’ve been treated terribly. I’ve seen some people refuse to shake hands with them as if they have leprosy or an infectious disease or something. It really pisses me off.” Racism is fatal in Egypt. In December 2005, Egyptian riot police killed at least 23 unarmed Sudanese refugees, including small children, who had occupied a public park in front of a United Nations office for three months. Last year, prominent Nubian activist Gamal Sorour died in detention. Sorour was among 25 Nubians arrested for staging a peaceful protest “demanding the return of Nubians to their ancestral lands, from which they were evicted in the 1960s to make way for the lake behind the High Dam on the Nile,” as the Associated Press reported. want to tell them of a Sierra Leonean man who was in Cairo to study at al-Azhar University who told me of being spat at in Cairo streets. Or of the teenage South Sudanese girl taunted by an Egyptian woman on the metro who tried to grab her nose and mouth until I intervened. None of our fellow passengers said a word. I apologized to the girl for what she had experienced. “That happens every day,” she told me. Or the black American friend who told me of the disdain with which Egyptian police had treated him, assuming he was Nigerian, until he produced his American passport, and the disdain quickly became disguised with chumminess and Eddie Murphy jokes." I read this article over at the old ES forum, as well as seeing one of your posts on the subject of Egyptians extreme atagonism towards Black Africans. I find it strange they get extremely upset at Black Americans for acknowledging the Africanicity of Ancient Egypt saying this, that, and the third about black people. Yet a movie such as Black Panther comes along which draws heavily on various Sub-Saharan cultures and they're complaining about not enough white people being in the film. Are these people serious!? Anyway yeah the Arabs have managed to escape the crictism of their involvement in the enslavement of Africans. I would add more but I fear I feel venom forming on my lips.
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