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Post by nebsen on Mar 13, 2019 15:21:13 GMT -5
Charles Bonnet, world famous archeologist of the Sudan uncovered buildings that are unknown in the k Kerma area...has any one else heard about this find in the Sudan ? I hope I'm not posting information that has been posted before...From what i have read it was Feb 2017...as we all know it takes a while before the general public becomes a ware of archeological Finds.. I have a book by Charles Bonnet which is some years old I believe he talks about such buildings in this book..I will have to check to see if this is correct...but here is a video about the find & a link to a article about it... www.france24.com/en/20170210-sudan-archaeology-temples-discovered-kerma-dogi-ancient-bonnet-history
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Post by anansi on Mar 14, 2019 5:49:28 GMT -5
Yeah I saw that clip a day or so ago, very unique building indeed, there is soo much more to uncover, I also saw a lecture on the same site done by the folks who did that dreadful NatlGeo "Black Pharaohs" , well he addressed the issue of Blackness.. well kinda, he said while he provided the raw information, he had no control how it was presented including the title, as most here remember we and the rest of Black internet went in on the program, he seemed genuinely taken aback , I dare say hurt by the negative response, so don't be shy about calling out bs whenever it popped up, it gave ppl a chance to at least rethink certain auto- talking points.
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Post by melanitex on Mar 14, 2019 10:41:25 GMT -5
Thank You I've always said Sudan and Chad needs so much more archaeological work......
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Post by nebsen on Mar 14, 2019 13:31:14 GMT -5
Yeah I saw that clip a day or so ago, very unique building indeed, there is soo much more to uncover, I also saw a lecture on the same site done by the folks who did that dreadful NatlGeo "Black Pharaohs" , well he addressed the issue of Blackness.. well kinda, he said while he provided the raw information, he had no control how it was presented including the title, as most here remember we and the rest of Black internet went in on the program, he seemed genuinely taken aback , I dare say hurt by the negative response, so don't be shy about calling out bs whenever it popped up, it gave ppl a chance to at least rethink certain auto- talking points. Anansi could you post that lecture here for us to check out ? I would like to see it just to check out the acrobatics they use to get around the obvious !! also here a a excellent link about the Sudan that gives great information undark.org/article/nubia-sudan-amara-west-archaeology/
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Post by asante on Mar 14, 2019 13:40:49 GMT -5
Thank You I've always said Sudan and Chad needs so much more archaeological work...... YES glad that you mentioned Chad. There are great things in that Saharan region covered in mounds of sand.
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Post by nebsen on Mar 14, 2019 14:12:44 GMT -5
Thank You I've always said Sudan and Chad needs so much more archaeological work...... YES glad that you mentioned Chad. There are great things in that Saharan region covered in mounds of sand. www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-africa/lost-mists-time-ancient-sao-civilization-central-africa-003978You are so correct ...some years ago i was reading about how Africa as a whole has not really been taken serious as a archeological" Gold Mine".. I found a site with information about archeological digs in Africa by the few trained" African archeologist " we need more by Africans in the field doing the work ..but I no longer have the site & information ....!
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Post by anansi on Mar 15, 2019 5:44:21 GMT -5
Yeah I saw that clip a day or so ago, very unique building indeed, there is soo much more to uncover, I also saw a lecture on the same site done by the folks who did that dreadful NatlGeo "Black Pharaohs" , well he addressed the issue of Blackness.. well kinda, he said while he provided the raw information, he had no control how it was presented including the title, as most here remember we and the rest of Black internet went in on the program, he seemed genuinely taken aback , I dare say hurt by the negative response, so don't be shy about calling out bs whenever it popped up, it gave ppl a chance to at least rethink certain auto- talking points. Anansi could you post that lecture here for us to check out ? I would like to see it just to check out the acrobatics they use to get around the obvious !! also here a a excellent link about the Sudan that gives great information undark.org/article/nubia-sudan-amara-west-archaeology/ youtu.be/n7tABAPqMhAYes here we go the relevant part starts at time 27:59 And it's not the same site as Charles Bonnet, but El- Kurru.
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Post by anansi on Mar 15, 2019 5:51:46 GMT -5
Thank You I've always said Sudan and Chad needs so much more archaeological work...... YES glad that you mentioned Chad. There are great things in that Saharan region covered in mounds of sand. Yes , I did a number of post on the Sao some yrs back.. some Arabic speaking folks calling them the Sons Of Ra and the area is indeed linked to the Kingdom of Yam. egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/2372/north-south-east-west-divideKlik here^
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Post by zarahan on Mar 15, 2019 10:25:08 GMT -5
Anansi could you post that lecture here for us to check out ? I would like to see it just to check out the acrobatics they use to get around the obvious !! also here a a excellent link about the Sudan that gives great information undark.org/article/nubia-sudan-amara-west-archaeology/ youtu.be/n7tABAPqMhAYes here we go the relevant part starts at time 27:59 And it's not the same site as Charles Bonnet, but El- Kurru. Yeah just saw the video. LOL, its National Geographic pushing the same distorted approach that they did in 2008. I am glad people got on them but they are still manipulating subtly. Back in 2008, their article talked about "black pharaohs" from "deep in Africa." It was a subtle ploy to make it seem like "black pharaohs" are something new to Egypt or that blackness is something exotic or unusual to Egypt. . HOw could they be from "deep in Africa"? The Sudan is right next door to KEmet. In fact part of the Kushite empire or Nubian realm included southern Egypt at one time. How is that "deep" in Africa? That's like saying people who drive a few miles to Canada from nearby NEw York are from "deep in the United States." No one would accept such laughable thinking elsewhere, but when it comes to Africa, African peoples and Kemet we have such laughable narratives. They are still running a variant of the same game a decade later witht he so-called "rise of the Black Pharaohs." But as we know "black" pharaohs do not need to "rise." They have been in Kemet from Day 1. The guy in the video points out a limited aspect, but doesn't explain the issue clearly or precisely. Sad that we have to be pointing this out in 2019, and have to keep repeating it, but.. And this was long BEFORE the allegedly "officially black" 25th Dynasty..
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Post by zarahan on Mar 15, 2019 10:26:45 GMT -5
^^Another set of "deep" African migrants to Kemet from "deep" in Africa.. LOL ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- On the more serious side, see below- the Kushites almost overran Egypt, centuries BEFORE the 25th Dynasty showed up..
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Post by zarahan on Mar 15, 2019 10:43:02 GMT -5
And of course the Kushites do not represent the "black presence" in Kemet. NATIVE black Egyptians were in place from Day 1 without having to wait for the Kushites a bit farther south in the Sudan to show up.
Donald Redford in his book "From Slave to Pharaoh- the Black Experience in Egypt" is typical of a distorted, Eurocentric approach. "The Black Experience" in Kemet does not start with "slavery" only to finally "move on up" like ancient George Jeffersons, in the 25thDynasty. "The Black Experience" has been in place from the beginning, and Black Pharaohs have been in place long BEFORE the 25th Dynasty. Just to be clear for the lurkers, new readers and such.. an educational piece.. One can say there are 4 ancient levels of blackness in Kemet and the Nile Valley.. (others have other models and it can be further subdivided) 1) The very ancient Paleolithic/pre-Paleolithic peoples, as seen in Nazlet Khater and elsewhere, including the prehistoric Nubian lithic complex, the African Middle Stone Age etc etc, millennia before any historic era 2) The NATIVE, INDIGENOUS Africans of the predynastic and dynastic eras (Badarians, Abydos, etc) 3) THe Nubians of early predynastic, as well as the later Nubians throughout Kemet history. Note these at times controlled what we call today southern or Upper Egypt 4) The later Kushites from farther south in the Sudan, with overlap back and forth- Sobenakht era when Egypt was almost destroyed to centuries later with 25th Dynasty ------------------------------------------------------------ 5) The modern black Egyptians that are still in place though subsumed now under an Arabized identity and population. Black never disappeared from Egypt as can be seen in the fellahin of SOuthern Egypt, the black baladi- sons of the soil. When various claimants talk about "continuity" with Ancient Egypt, that "continuity" must include black people, even with the many changes to the modern population Blackness does not depend on Nubians or Kushites coming from somewhere. It is indigenous and apart, along with them. So it can be said, do not fall for the Eurocentric okey-doke that would consign blackness to "Nubians" or "Kushites" or "Arab slave trade" as Scheumann et al recently implied. NATIVE, INDIGENOUS Blackness has been in Kemet and the Nile Valley from Day 1. It does not have to wait to appear from "the outside" nor is blackness "foreign" to Egypt, as the standard EUrocentric narrative would have it. And there has been plenty of overlap, mixing and mingling back and forth. For example.. While they were distinct cultures, the amount of overlap and intermingling that occurred sometimes makes Egyptians and Nubians indistinguishable in the archeological record.
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Post by zarahan on Mar 15, 2019 13:11:42 GMT -5
Charles Bonnet, world famous archeologist of the Sudan uncovered buildings that are unknown in the k Kerma area...has any one else heard about this find in the Sudan ? I hope I'm not posting information that has been posted before...From what i have read it was Feb 2017...as we all know it takes a while before the general public becomes a ware of archeological Finds.. I have a book by Charles Bonnet which is some years old I believe he talks about such buildings in this book..I will have to check to see if this is correct...but here is a video about the find & a link to a article about it... www.france24.com/en/20170210-sudan-archaeology-temples-discovered-kerma-dogi-ancient-bonnet-historyIts not a bad article although I don't know why it calls him "aging archaeologist"? What is that all about? The article also uses the "black pharaoh" phraseology, typical. But Bonnet's work is good, and a welcome addition. I realize he has to use a bit of hype to get buzz for his project. He does say interestingly: "Nobody knows this architecture... It's completely new," Bonnet explained, adding that the new structures did not resemble Egyptian or Nubian architecture – two ancient archaeological influences in the region.It would be interesting to learn more if what he says is true.. What cultures etc.. Also "That means this part of the world was defended by a coalition, probably of the king of Kerma with people coming from Darfur and from central Sudan" against ancient Egyptians, who were interested in controlling trade and commerce in central Africa.^^Interesting theory. Maybe or could be they were defending against nomad attacks from outside.. ---------------------------------------------------------- www.france24.com/en/20170210-sudan-archaeology-temples-discovered-kerma-dogi-ancient-bonnet-historySudan temples shed light on ‘secrets of Africa’ Date created : 10/02/2017 - 18:15 GIANLUIGI GUERCIA, AFP | Archaelogists says Sudan's ancient kingdoms once rivalled Egypt and Rome Text by: FRANCE 24 Swiss archaeologist Charles Bonnet and his team have unearthed three temples in Sudan that could help unlock some of the secrets of ancient Africa, a subject that has long challenged researchers of the ancient world. ADVERTISING Bonnet, 83, considered one of the world’s leading experts on Sudan's archaeological heritage, says the sites are unlike anything discovered so far. The round and oval shaped structures dating from 1,500 to 2,000 BC were found late last year not far from the famed archaeological site of Kerma in northern Sudan. "This architecture is unknown ... there is no example in central Africa or in the Nile Valley of this architecture," Bonnet told the AFP news agency this week. The temples were found at Dogi Gel, or "Red Hill", located just several hundred metres from Kerma, where Bonnet and his team have been digging for decades. "At Kerma the architecture is square or rectangular shaped... and here just a kilometre away we have round structures," he explained. "Nobody knows this architecture... It's completely new," Bonnet explained, adding that the new structures did not resemble Egyptian or Nubian architecture – two ancient archaeological influences in the region. "There are no roots today in Africa and we have to find these roots... this is the secret of Africa." Ancient ‘coalition’ Years ago, Bonnet unearthed the seven "black pharaohs" granite statues of Sudan's Nubian rulers near the banks of the Nile. The ageing archeologist thereby helped prove that Sudan, with its wealth of ancient relics, was not merely a satellite of neighbouring Egypt. During this latest dig, Bonnet said, he also discovered "enormous fortifications" at Dogi Gel, an indication that much more awaits to be discovered at the site. "That means this part of the world was defended by a coalition, probably of the king of Kerma with people coming from Darfur and from central Sudan" against ancient Egyptians, who were interested in controlling trade and commerce in central Africa. With more and more archaeologists expressing interest in north Sudan's Nile Valley, where the Kushite kingdom flourished between present day Khartoum and the Egyptian border, Bonnet is convinced that many kingdoms still lay buried waiting to be discovered. "We have here extraordinary history of the world, maybe after some years we will have Sudanology as strong as Egyptology," he said. <<snip excerpt>>
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Post by nebsen on Mar 15, 2019 19:18:36 GMT -5
zarahan,don't understand your objection to Charles Bonnet Being called aging, for he is...he's in his 80's he not middle-aged ..I'm sure he would not object to being a elder esp. giving that he has been in the field of Nubian Archaeology as long as he has been doing what others in his field refused to champion as just as important as Egyptian Archaeology...!!
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Post by zarahan on Mar 16, 2019 21:37:15 GMT -5
Point taken. I may have been too suspicious, and in the back of my mind thought they were subtly running down the new research on Nubia by referring to Bonnet as "aging archaeologist," a phrase you would seldom see in a science publication, even a popular one. France24 is a popular level-general news outlet so maybe it just looser writing without any deeper message being conveyed.
But based on the distortions in this area, subtle and open, like the 25th Dynasty as from being "deep" in Africa, trying to portray them as something exotic and out of place, when Nubians and Egyptians are the closest cousins ethnically from Day 1, and Nubians were located right across from Aswan -50-60-70 miles away or even less, you get suspicious. Its like the "true negro" ploy they keep using in so many different guises to downplay and stereotype African diversity. But hey, you are right. The dude is old! lolol, but he is doing some good stuffin the Sudan.
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Post by nebsen on Mar 16, 2019 23:26:18 GMT -5
Point taken. I may have been too suspicious, and in the back of my mind thought they were subtly running down the new research on Nubia by referring to Bonnet as "aging archaeologist," a phrase you would seldom see in a science publication, even a popular one. France24 is a popular level-general news outlet so maybe it just looser writing without any deeper message being conveyed. But based on the distortions in this area, subtle and open, like the 25th Dynasty as from being "deep" in Africa, trying to portray them as something exotic and out of place, when Nubians and Egyptians are the closest cousins ethnically from Day 1, and Nubians were located right across from Aswan -50-60-70 miles away or even less, you get suspicious. Its like the "true negro" ploy they keep using in so many different guises to downplay and stereotype African diversity. But hey, you are right. The dude is old! lolol, but he is doing some good stuffin the Sudan. OK,now I understand your rational ..but I was thinking is he having a mid-life crisis ?? for I have encountered those reaching their 50's who really get touchy about age... & aging, they over react...to the mere mention of getting older etc. ! thanks for clearing that up for me !!
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