|
Post by nebsen on Aug 22, 2019 16:37:13 GMT -5
This month makes the 400 years that enslaved Africans came to these shores..Nikole Hannah Jones of the N.Y. Times has did a ground breaking series called The 1619 Project which is getting much praise for it's depth & scope..also some hate from those on the Right The N.Y. Times devoted a whole special print to this project...I include some video's here about the project & a radio show 1A devoted to the project ..... the1a.org/shows/2019-08-22/the-1619-project
|
|
|
Post by clydewin98 on Aug 26, 2019 18:32:42 GMT -5
Explain to me why ADOS would celebrate 1619.This was the beginning of 400 years of mistreatment and murder.Anyone who promotes this date is foolish
|
|
|
Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Aug 26, 2019 20:21:03 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by nebsen on Aug 27, 2019 13:53:17 GMT -5
Explain to me why ADOS would celebrate 1619.This was the beginning of 400 years of mistreatment and murder.Anyone who promotes this date is foolish it is not a celebration but the marking of a historical event in time that shaped America... whether one likes it or not it happened ...to be living at this time in history for those of us of African decent here in the Americas for me is to honor all our ancestors.. for with out them we would not be here today...like the Jews who never want the Holocaust to to be forgotten it is our Holocaust & never should be forgotten...the bonus is that those of us here on this site ESR know our history did not begin with 1619 but only a demarcation point in history.. for the lager African history extends & goes back over two hundred thousand years ..the BIG PICTURE should never be forgotten !!!
|
|
|
Post by nebsen on Aug 29, 2019 22:06:54 GMT -5
Roland Martin speaks to 1619 with a guest & others..check it out !!!
|
|
|
Post by zarahan on Sept 2, 2019 16:28:12 GMT -5
Al Takuri has pointed out that the date 1619 is misleading. Blacks were in place at earlier European arrivals about 1565. Sez the article he brings forward- -quote: www.dailypress.com/history/dp-vp-nw-before1619-story.html"Steve Noll, master lecturer in the history department of the University of Florida, says Virginia and Florida both have important stories to tell. Florida shows how Africans were more than enslaved laborers. They were accomplished explorers and likely on all Spanish expeditions, he said. For example, after Garrido’s travels with Juan Ponce de Leon in 1513, he joined Hernando Cortes in treks to Mexico and California.
Florida also reveals how the idea of race was viewed differently among the Spanish and English. North African Moors ruled Spain for centuries before being kicked out in 1492, and the European and African bloodlines were well mixed, Noll said.
The enslaved under Spanish rule had more rights than the race-based slavery that developed in the English colonies, he said. It’s telling, Noll said, that slaves in the early decades of slavery escaped south to Florida. By 1738, the Florida governor established Fort Mose for free blacks.
That gives Florida claim to another first: the original Underground Railroad. True. If 1619 is being used to build up a reparations narrative, 1565 is doubly relevant. It shows that the Spanish side of the house is just as important as the Anglo side in terms of European driven origin settlements & slavery. Some would argue that as far as reparations then both the Spanish and the French should pay. Indeed the French, who reaped massive profits from black misery via American hemisphere colonies such as Haiti, and to a lesser extent US mainland settlements such as around New Orleans and elsewhere, may need to pony up substantial sums. At least the Spanish were more flexible as seen via Fort Mose and other such, though the scale of misery they wrought s high, as elsewhere, across the board.
|
|
|
Post by nebsen on Sept 3, 2019 14:41:54 GMT -5
I Believe Roland Martin has a very good understanding about 1619 & will be unpacking this on his SHOW..he's on to something about reprogramming.I have a lots of respect for Marin he knows his history about Black folks in America...Love him or not he speaks the truth as he sees it & can afford to do so because HE HAS A PLATFORM...!
I'm not interested in debating aspect of who was here 1st & so forth.. on what real date etc. I hear Martin when he said we need to stop dividing dates & time frames which is what" THEY" want us to do....!!
Also there is some overlap in his video's they probably taped on the same day for most of the discussion & broke them into parts t obe aired on different days ..
This next video aired in Aug which I felt needed to be posted..I'm glad he went in on this topic for it needs to be talked about...
|
|
|
Post by zarahan on Sept 4, 2019 7:49:26 GMT -5
HI'm not interested in debating aspect of who was here 1st & so forth.. on what real date etc. I hear Martin when he said we need to stop dividing dates & time frames which is what" THEY" want us to do....!!n
^^Conscious back folk, indeed most black folk, have usually tied the strands together so Martin seems to be talking about going to white people to 'splain' black history tie-ins, but most whites are not that interested. 1619 talking points have some truths that makes white people feel threatened but will not fundamentally change whiteness, or some supremacist aspects. Much of the 1619 spiel is true, but old news really- that slavery played a key part in building the American economy, that the federal government sold out black folk by not giving them a strong land base, etc etc.. Black nationalists have been saying this for almost a century.
Trying to apply it as a mobilizer now in the run up to the 2020 elections is unlikely to do much practically. Based on negative white right wing or even white liberal reaction, the fallout is likely renewed racial animus of the white "base" which in the long run only helps people like Trump. If I was a white right winger I would be salivating at the prospect of making 1619 reparations a major campaign issue. We all know how its gonna play: "DEMS WANT TO GIVE AWAY YO MONEY TO THE NEGROES^" and so on.. Its a propaganda windfall for them and an excellent diversion from other more pressing issues. An issue that plays well in the black community may have little traction outside it.
|
|
jari
Scribe
Posts: 289
|
Post by jari on Sept 4, 2019 11:33:06 GMT -5
The 400 yrs thing is def. from the influence of the Bible, I still will use it from subconcious memory of church sermons. Thats the thing I have against 1619 though, in that the first African enslaved goes back before that. Also if they want to start with Slavery, why not start with the first Black, Christianized Moor, Estanvancio who accampanied the Spanish to North America or the Free born Black Conquistadors who fought with Portuguese and Spanish Invaders. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estevanicoen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Garrido
|
|
jari
Scribe
Posts: 289
|
Post by jari on Sept 4, 2019 11:37:31 GMT -5
I love how the video claims that the history beggining in 1619 threatens "Whiteness", when in fact some of the first Africans to step foot in the New World did so as party to Conquistadors. Kinda puts the whole Whites=Conquerors idea on its head. That and the history of Bacon's Rebellion and Buffalo Soldiers etc. will challenge both Black and White Supremacy IMO.
|
|
jari
Scribe
Posts: 289
|
Post by jari on Sept 4, 2019 11:42:53 GMT -5
The only way for any segment of the American population besides Blacks to support reparations is to be educated on just how F-ked up the situation was for blacks. We were literally denied the basic nessecities despite generating the wealth of the American Economy. Our poverty was encoded in law and upheld by North and Southern Whites, Western, Mid West, New England etc. all participated and adopted Jim Crow Laws. There are clear examples of African Americans thriving when given access to Land and Law, same as Whites and others who are now doing better than us. There really is not excuse, but TBH the American public is a poorly educated one, esp. the rightwing, so I dont advocate for Reparations in that its never going to happen. HI'm not interested in debating aspect of who was here 1st & so forth.. on what real date etc. I hear Martin when he said we need to stop dividing dates & time frames which is what" THEY" want us to do....!!n^^Conscious back folk, indeed most black folk, have usually tied the strands together so Martin seems to be talking about going to white people to 'splain' black history tie-ins, but most whites are not that interested. 1619 talking points have some truths that makes white people feel threatened but will not fundamentally change whiteness, or some supremacist aspects. Much of the 1619 spiel is true, but old news really- that slavery played a key part in building the American economy, that the federal government sold out black folk by not giving them a strong land base, etc etc.. Black nationalists have been saying this for almost a century. Trying to apply it as a mobilizer now in the run up to the 2020 elections is unlikely to do much practically. Based on negative white right wing or even white liberal reaction, the fallout is likely renewed racial animus of the white "base" which in the long run only helps people like Trump. If I was a white right winger I would be salivating at the prospect of making 1619 reparations a major campaign issue. We all know how its gonna play: "DEMS WANT TO GIVE AWAY YO MONEY TO THE NEGROES^" and so on.. Its a propaganda windfall for them and an excellent diversion from other more pressing issues. An issue that plays well in the black community may have little traction outside it.
|
|
|
Post by nebsen on Sept 4, 2019 12:52:31 GMT -5
HI'm not interested in debating aspect of who was here 1st & so forth.. on what real date etc. I hear Martin when he said we need to stop dividing dates & time frames which is what" THEY" want us to do....!!n^^Conscious back folk, indeed most black folk, have usually tied the strands together so Martin seems to be talking about going to white people to 'splain' black history tie-ins, but most whites are not that interested. 1619 talking points have some truths that makes white people feel threatened but will not fundamentally change whiteness, or some supremacist aspects. Much of the 1619 spiel is true, but old news really- that slavery played a key part in building the American economy, that the federal government sold out black folk by not giving them a strong land base, etc etc.. Black nationalists have been saying this for almost a century. Trying to apply it as a mobilizer now in the run up to the 2020 elections is unlikely to do much practically. Based on negative white right wing or even white liberal reaction, the fallout is likely renewed racial animus of the white "base" which in the long run only helps people like Trump. If I was a white right winger I would be salivating at the prospect of making 1619 reparations a major campaign issue. We all know how its gonna play: "DEMS WANT TO GIVE AWAY YO MONEY TO THE NEGROES^" and so on.. Its a propaganda windfall for them and an excellent diversion from other more pressing issues. An issue that plays well in the black community may have little traction outside it. Well, to be honest I can't make any sense to your post..we must be seeing this by 2 very different lenses..you usually don't do the political angel but must be something about this whole topic" that hits you where you live.." I'm not going to use my time splitting hairs on this topic or subject..I'll leave that to other posters who you can really engage with.. I'm very ok with 1619 & folks wanting to have some new thinking about this event..also someone mentioned the bible & 400 years might mean to bibliophiles..don't know much about that.. but i do know cycles are very important & do have some cosmic dimension..Africans of ancient & still today look at cycles in a spiritual way the ancient Egyptians along with the Babylonians where masters at time keeping.. a book i have called" African Cosmos Stellar Arts: African Cultural Astronomy from Antiquity To The Present..makes this very clear...! !
|
|
|
Post by zarahan on Sept 4, 2019 13:51:52 GMT -5
Not really. I have done a fair amount of political posts- but prefer substantive stuff not memes or sound bites. What I mean above is that ROland Martin says "we have to tie all these history strands together" but black people having been doing that all along for decades. The history of the labor movement for example is filled with racism, so black folk tie white supremacy into the labor movement as well and don't view it as separate and apart, and never bought into the notion of unions as the salvation or fren of the working man etc etc.. Yeah, WHICH working man? Likewise the racism of the South AND more urban north was always tied together by black folk. This is why I say Martin must be aiming to educate mostly white people.
|
|
|
Post by zarahan on Sept 4, 2019 14:29:29 GMT -5
Jari said: he 400 yrs thing is def. from the influence of the Bible, I still will use it from subconcious memory of church sermons. They don't so much reference the Bible as the landing of the 20 blacks in VIrginia in 1619 which gives a neat 400 year number- leading into 2019. Some folk have tried various numerology calculations claiming that blacks are the tribe of Israel, so 360 years of slavery and Jim Crow plus 40 wilderness years since civil rights yielding a neat 400- etc etc.. but the calculation seems a stretch. Thats the thing I have against 1619 though, in that the first African enslaved goes back before that. Also if they want to start with Slavery, why not start with the first Black, Christianized Moor, Estanvancio who accampanied the Spanish to North America or the Free born Black Conquistadors who fought with Portuguese and Spanish Invaders. Which is why some say the Spanish should be in the hook for some reparations. I love how the video claims that the history beggining in 1619 threatens "Whiteness", when in fact some of the first Africans to step foot in the New World did so as party to Conquistadors. Kinda puts the whole Whites=Conquerors idea on its head. That and the history of Bacon's Rebellion and Buffalo Soldiers etc. will challenge both Black and White Supremacy IMO. True enough, these contradictions make the case more difficult. The only way for any segment of the American population besides Blacks to support reparations is to be educated on just how F-ked up the situation was for blacks. We were literally denied the basic nessecities despite generating the wealth of the American Economy. Our poverty was encoded in law and upheld by North and Southern Whites, Western, Mid West, New England etc. all participated and adopted Jim Crow Laws. There are clear examples of African Americans thriving when given access to Land and Law, same as Whites and others who are now doing better than us. There really is not excuse, but TBH the American public is a poorly educated one, esp. the rightwing, so I dont advocate for Reparations in that its never going to happen. Agreed in part. Many whites know but are in denial because it opens up a lot of embarrassing exposure. It is better many believe NOT to know, or to change the subject. And when you look at the case realistically, most whites are not really that interested in black problems, save as they are inconvenienced or forced to face them, as King, Shuttlesworth, and SNCC did in their confrontation and boycott campaigns. To this can be added the lawsuits of the legal side of the struggle via the NAACP which many found very irritating. BUt whether then or now, the blunt bottom line is that white people are are focused on themselves first not blacks. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is what WEB Dubois had to say in the 1930s. He qualifies the case- noting some are neutral but fearfully go with the flow, and not all whites are enemies. Much of whath said is still relevant:"The colored people of America are coming to face the fact quite calmly that most white Americans do not like them, and are planning neither for their survival, nor for their definite future if it involves free, self-assertive modern manhood. This does not mean all Americans. A saving few are worried about the Negro problem; a still larger group are not ill-disposed, but they fear prevailing public opinion. The great mass of Americans are, however, merely representatives of average humanity. They muddle along with their own affairs and scarcely can be expected to take seriously the affairs of strangers or people whom they partly fear and partly despise.
For many years it was the theory of most Negro leaders that this attitude was the insensibility of ignorance and inexperience, that white America did not know of or realize the continuing plight of the Negro. Accordingly, for the last two decades, we have striven by book and periodical, by speech and appeal, by various dramatic methods of agitation, to put the essential facts before the American people. Today there can be no doubt that Americans know the facts; and yet they remain for the most part indifferent and unmoved."--WEB Dubois (1934) W.E.B. Du Bois, “A Negro Nation Within a Nation”
|
|
|
Post by nebsen on Sept 6, 2019 21:15:59 GMT -5
|
|