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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Sept 28, 2019 20:54:51 GMT -5
Chancellor Williams 1974 Destruction of Black Civilization How hard was it for him to see his fully laid out plans never implemented by his audience. Similar to Malcolm X of whom The Last Poets rapped "Niggers loved to hear Malcolm rap but they didn't love Malcolm." It's something to look back now on the subject book in light of 2nd decade of the 21st century 'yte intelligentsia Africana'. Geneticist takeover of African History and Pre-history was unseen. They rely on history, anthropology, and ethnology works from all yte Africanist sources. These sources inform the algorithms used in programs like ADMIXTURE. Geneticist African history sets 2 main postures. The presence of West Eurasian genomes throughout much of Africa early as the Late Paleolithic exemplified in Villabruna, Anatolia, and Iran genomes; and primacy of the Sahara regarding the Holocene reshuffling of Africa's peoples. They chose not to separate Out of Africa genomes from Born Outside of Africa ones and as well ignore the vast bulk 2/3rds of the continent that isn't Sahara-Mediteranean from the Epi-Paleolithic to the end of the mid-Holocene. Let's see where Chancellor Williams was ahead of the curve. [Just reading the hi-lites is fine @ 1st If reading all, then hi-lites emphasize]
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Sept 28, 2019 21:02:18 GMT -5
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Sept 28, 2019 21:02:41 GMT -5
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Sept 28, 2019 21:03:00 GMT -5
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Sept 28, 2019 21:03:25 GMT -5
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Sept 28, 2019 21:04:14 GMT -5
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Sept 28, 2019 21:04:32 GMT -5
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Sept 28, 2019 21:05:03 GMT -5
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Post by asante on Sept 29, 2019 11:26:21 GMT -5
Powerful book!
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Post by zarahan on Sept 29, 2019 13:27:28 GMT -5
Yeah Williams laid down some good work, and at the time be wrote in 1971, he had to fight against a huge tide of distorted European scholarship- wall to wall distortions. WHen you compare the massive flow of info we have today, versus the struggles he had to even extract data, some of which he probably couldn't get to because of funding or skin color. Some of his work needs updating to take account of modern data, but at the time, based on the info at hand, or theories of the era, various parts of his model were reasonable. Geneticist African history sets 2 main postures. The presence of West Eurasian genomes throughout much of Africa early as the Late Paleolithic exemplified in Villabruna, Anatolia, and Iran genomes; and primacy of the Sahara regarding the Holocene reshuffling of Africa's peoples. They chose not to separate Out of Africa genomes from Born Outside of Africa ones and as well ignore the vast bulk 2/3rds of the continent that isn't Sahara-Mediteranean from the Epi-Paleolithic to the end of the mid-Holocene.What ways to you see the Chancellor as ahead of the curve on them today? How hard was it for him to see his fully laid out plans never implemented by his audience. Yeah he had a complete, comprehensive race uplift plan- from independent politics to building solid black community businesses, finances, etc. Some of the stuff written by Amos Williams or Claude Anderson with his "Powernomics" book seems to be channeling the Chancellor.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Sept 30, 2019 12:30:00 GMT -5
Yeah Williams laid down some good work, and at the time be wrote in 1971, he had to fight against a huge tide of distorted European scholarship- wall to wall distortions. WHen you compare the massive flow of info we have today, versus the struggles he had to even extract data, some of which he probably couldn't get to because of funding or skin color. Some of his work needs updating to take account of modern data, but at the time, based on the info at hand, or theories of the era, various parts of his model were reasonable. Geneticist African history sets 2 main postures. The presence of West Eurasian genomes throughout much of Africa early as the Late Paleolithic exemplified in Villabruna, Anatolia, and Iran genomes; and primacy of the Sahara regarding the Holocene reshuffling of Africa's peoples. They chose not to separate Out of Africa genomes from Born Outside of Africa ones and as well ignore the vast bulk 2/3rds of the continent that isn't Sahara-Mediteranean from the Epi-Paleolithic to the end of the mid-Holocene.What ways to you see the Chancellor as ahead of the curve on them today? How hard was it for him to see his fully laid out plans never implemented by his audience. Yeah he had a complete, comprehensive race uplift plan- from independent politics to building solid black community businesses, finances, etc. Some of the stuff written by Amos Williams or Claude Anderson with his "Powernomics" book seems to be channeling the Chancellor. Take a look at Wms professional CV. Doubt he had access problems. His creds include 1000's of hours of field work. Rogers didn't even have a problem accessing the necessary institutions. Glad to expand or clarify, just be specific. Also, as always, precisions and critique are welcome. The yellow hi-lites are where Wms was ahead of the curve. Talkin bout the Holocene Sahara and apparent Eurasian incretion throughout the continent. That's the big deal in African populations genetics, the ytes placing themselves nearly everywhere in Africa since the Epi-paleolithic. Genomes were an unknown in the day. Wms uses the tools at his disposal. Here's what he came to be about.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Sept 30, 2019 13:12:09 GMT -5
... various parts of his model were reasonable. Please explain using direct quotes why any parts of his model, not data, weren't or aren't reasonable to you in the way outdated yte authors are. Wms is one of the masters whose work will resonate throughout time and either precede or inform any who cover the same material. No more outdated in any form other than the same for al-Jahiz, ibn Khaldun, Thomas Hobbes, David Hume, etc. Another in the same rank as Wms is Madhubuti. Author of From Plan to Planet and Enemies the Clash of Races, co-founder of Chi town's Institute of Positive Education and Third World Press.
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Post by zarahan on Sept 30, 2019 21:41:03 GMT -5
Let's look at the last part of the page in what the Chancellor says below: He says the blacks made a tragic error, that they should have moved en masse to the seacoasts. This seems questionable. If desiccation was hammering away at the various groups, you want to move to the nearest sources of fresh water and pasture. Most of these would not be on the seacoasts. Why for example would Sudanic cattle herders rush down long stretches of desert, to the relatively barren Red Sea coast when the water and pasture their cattle needed was inland? Why would you be leaning towards that beach zone, when the salvation of your clan might be better located inland, moving down the Nile to better resource bases? What do you say? Is it a "tragic error" to go where most of the resources are? Be specific. Furthermore to maintain a dominant position on a coastline you need to have a reliable resource base (men and material) drawn from further inland to defend the coastal position, or you need credible deployment of strong sea power to use in trade or conquest to get the resources you need, to defend that coast. If you don't have the inland resource base or the seapower, you will be overcome by outside enemies. This is what happened in East Africa where the Arabs, and then the later Portuguese were able to dominate large sections of the coast, including mass enslaving of Africans for sale in Arab and later European markets. Modest seacoast kingdoms could neither deploy big naval forces or the thousands of men as the big inland states. Contrast with what happened when the Portugese moved inland and tangled with the Changamire kings. The Changamires deployed thousands of hardcore warriors and kicked their asses. They could not get away with what they got away with on the coast. Thus it seems simplistic to speak of tragic errors by failing to move to the seacoast to maintain a dominant position. You need several things to maintain such a position. Exactly how the blacks were supposed to do this - re this "tragic error" he does not say. Could the blacks have done better? Why or why not? Give some specifics in your reply, not to debate per se, but to clarify the case.
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Post by zarahan on Sept 30, 2019 22:39:03 GMT -5
Another example: Williams paints a picture of naive, trusting blacks who welcomed whites not as invaders with ulterior motives but "co-partners in further development of world trade." But he gives no credible source or citation for this assertion, and it is contradicted by various Egyptian inscriptions expressing a great deal of suspicion as regards "the whites." www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=007657Furthermore the invasion of the "white" "Sea Peoples" shows that the blacks were not at all naive about such alien outsiders, who were soundly defeated by strong seapower. There are numerous other claims that are questionable in the light of what we know now. This is why I say people should consider updated data to supplement, and not blindly embrace everything Williams said in 1971 as gospel. There are a number of ways to make his classic case stronger with the right updates, but time and again I have run into folk who want to freeze the case at the early 1970s. Any deviation is some sort of heresy.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Oct 1, 2019 17:31:16 GMT -5
... WHen you compare the massive flow of info we have today, versus the struggles he had to even extract data, some of which he probably couldn't get to because of funding or skin color. Looks untenable until "... the struggles he had to even extract data, some of which he probably couldn't get to because of funding or skin color" are documented with voncrete examples. Seems pure speculation replacing research on Chancellor Williams' actual biography. Why cripple Wms with a challenge he doesn't mention facing? Let's deal with the real man not an imagined one. Too often are our prime Elder Scholars all taken for round the way autodidacts of the type producing YouTubes today. 1898-1992 93yrs • Bachelor's of Education • Master's of History • course instructor All at Howard University.Wms studied under and was a protege of Leo Hansberry his mentor whom he followed as Howard's History Dept specialist in African History. • PhD in Sociology from American University • Oxford University • University of London • University of Chicago • University of Iowa • University College in Ghana are the major places he conducted his document researches as visiting research scholar. Wms began his 10 year field research at UC in Ghana. It covered 105 ethnies in 26 countries. As a youth he preferred Booker T to Du Bois. Anecdotes of the two and Nkrumah if conferring in Ghana would be interesting. Sidebar: Wms first novel, The Raven, was acclaimed by the NY Times back in '43.
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