Memorable Excerpts from Marcus Garvey

[djoser-xyyman]

youtu.be/tyB9K9Go6RQ

[djoser-xyyman]

"Liberate the minds of men and you will ultimately liberate the bodies of men"

On white men "their arrogance is only skin deep"

"If blacks knew of their glorious past they would be more inclined to respect themselves"

"Buy black, think black and be black and all else takes care of itself"

"We must seek higher development in sciences for our children"

Jan 14, 2020 13:29:24 GMT -5 djoser-xyyman said:

youtu.be/tyB9K9Go6RQ

[ycoamigofull]

Yeah he was an inspirational figure to blacks back in the day but he made some big blunders to waste almost $1,000,000 in poor black people money with the socalled Black Star Line, and people warned him at the time, but he did not listen. They totally mismanaged things, they had no experience. It's like lodge cronies from the Elks Club trying to run an airline today. It was doomed from the start. That' the thing with these promoters, they talk big but cannot execute, which leaves black people poorer.

[zarahan]

Well, some of what you say is true, but does not necessarily mean Garvey was "doomed from the start."
Yes there were execution problems, and the bull-headed stubbornness of Garvey refusing to follow
sound business practice- but he could have done a better job by simply contracting ships to carry
cargo as an initial phase rather than buying junk vessels and attempting to run a line. Just like
most white merchants doing international trade simply paid a shipping fee for X goods to go from
point A to point B. Once he had established the feasibility and profitability, then he could have
moved to ownership of one ship, tested that, then if worth it, expand to other ships. In other words
he could have done a more cautious phased-in strategy. The idea had potential.

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

Jan 18, 2020 21:57:31 GMT -5 zarahan said:

Well, some of what you say is true, but does not necessarily mean Garvey was "doomed from the start."
Yes there were execution problems, and the bull-headed stubbornness of Garvey refusing to follow
sound business practice- but he could have done a better job by simply contracting ships to carry
cargo as an initial phase rather than buying junk vessels and attempting to run a line. Just like
most white merchants doing international trade simply paid a shipping fee for X goods to go from
point A to point B. Once he had established the feasibility and profitability, then he could have
moved to ownership of one ship, tested that, then if worth it, expand to other ships. In other words
he could have done a more cautious phased-in strategy. The idea had potential.

This'd work fine in today's 21st century Pan-Africanism, which is accepting of Afrikaaners as Africans.

Do-for-self ideology allowed little leeway for others to do it for self, even if colonial trade laws restricting blkAmericas2blkAfrica shipping weren't on the books.
Anti-black racism prevents following white/Jewish/other non-blk options, else there'd be no need for blks to do other than ytes have done nor would blx be a separate society from ytes/Jews/others.
TH Marcus Mosiah Garvey raised the most successful, though short lived, unifying organisms for all Africans in the Americas ever seen.
And he did it despite US Intelligence interference, including such plants among his confidantes.

No one other than TH Elijah Muhammad has come anywhere near it.

It will never be seen again.

[ycoamigofull]

Neh it doesn't have to wait until the 21st century. Garvey had lousy business practice. If he was playing around with his own money is one thing, but he squandered the savings of all those poor black people. he had numerous messups, avoidable messups, and that's not with the benefit of hindsight. People at the time told him not to buy those lousy boats, or fix the organization but he refused. He had the finest black seaman in the world to advice him. Hugh Mulzac, a certified cpatain and shipmaster, but he pompously refused to listen. Mulzac had joined with Marcus Garvey's Universal Negro Improvement Association (UNIA) and served as a Captain on the SS Yarmouth of the Black Star Line. However, his disgust at Garvey's mismanagement lead to his resignation in 1921. THe few grocery store, one small printing press, one restaurant and so on were small potatoes. Most of UNIA money went into that failed Black Start Line. The failed line brought down the whole UNIA in a few years, wiping out donations and savings of thousands. they lose 250,000 dollars on their first cargos shipment. Why is he celebrated with these quotations every black history month?

[zarahan]

Jan 19, 2020 15:23:15 GMT -5 ycoamigofull said:

Neh it doesn't have to wait until the 21st century. Garvey had lousy business practice. If he was playing around with his own money is one thing, but he squandered the savings of all those poor black people. he had numerous messups, avoidable messups, and that's not with the benefit of hindsight. People at the time told him not to buy those lousy boats, or fix the organization but he refused. He had the finest black seaman in the world to advice him. Hugh Mulzac, a certified cpatain and shipmaster, but he pompously refused to listen. Mulzac had joined with Marcus Garvey's Universal Negro Improvement Association (UNIA) and served as a Captain on the SS Yarmouth of the Black Star Line. However, his disgust at Garvey's mismanagement lead to his resignation in 1921. THe few grocery store, one small printing press, one restaurant and so on were small potatoes. Most of UNIA money went into that failed Black Start Line. The failed line brought down the whole UNIA in a few years, wiping out donations and savings of thousands. they lose 250,000 dollars on their first cargos shipment. Why is he celebrated with these quotations every black history month?

If you look at the UNIA flyer above its TWO restaurants and grocery stores not one as you say.
And sure, the Black star Line and its mismanagement dragged down UNIA. No serious question there,
but Garvey was an inspirational figure for tens of thousands of downtrodden and thus he will
always be quoted for the inspirational effect, Black History Month or no.

By the way where are you getting this $250,000 loss figure from? Says who?

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

Just imagine an apparent irremediable F-up built the most successful Africans in the Americas organization ever on AfrAm soil.

... in 1914, he returned to Jamaica and founded the Universal Negro Improvement Association (U.N.I.A.).

[. . .]

In May of 1917, Garvey started the New York Division of the U.N.I.A. with 13 members.
After only three months, the organization's dues-paying membership reached 3,500.
By June 1919, the membership of the U.N.I.A. had grown to over 2 million members.
By 1920, the U.N.I.A. had 1,100 chapters in 40 countries around the world.
By 1926, the membership of the U.N.I.A. had grown to over 6 million members.

[. . .]

... Most of the chapters were located in the United States, which had become the
U.N.I.A.'s base of operations. There were, however, offices in several Caribbean
countries, with Cuba having the most. Chapters also existed in such diverse
countries as Panama, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Ecuador, Sierra Leone,
Liberia, Ghana, Nigeria, Namibia, Azania/South Africa, India, and Australia.

In September, 1926 the U.N.I.A. celebrated the opening Liberty University. They
acquired Smallwood-Corey Industrial Institute located in Claremont, Virginia. The
school property included several buildings and sixty-six acres of land along the
St. James River. 56 young U.N.I.A. members became students there beginning with
the fall session in 1926.

[. . .]

... the U.N.I.A.'s male Universal African Legion ... studied military discipline as
well as the geography of Africa, mathematics, reading and writing and other subjects.

... African Black Cross Nurses were modeled after the Red Cross. Although some
members had formal medical training, most worked with practical training in first
aid and nutrition. The auxiliary performed benevolent community work and provided
public health services to black neighborhoods, specializing in infant health and home care.

... the female Universal African Motor Corps were trained in
automobile driving and repair, as well as military discipline ...

... Black Eagle Flying Corps were trained as airplane pilots.

The Juvenile Divisions, the youth corps of the Garvey movement, were divided into classes according to age.
The infant class (ages one through seven)
studied the Bible, the doctrine of the U.N.I.A., and the history of Africa.

After the age of seven, the children were segregated by sex.
Girls were taught sewing, boys woodcraft, and both received
further instruction in Black history, economics and etiquette.

After the age of thirteen,
boys received military training to prepare them for ... the African Legion,
while girls learned hygiene and domestic science ... to be Black Cross Nurses.

<TAG TEAM Marketing International, Inc. © 2020>


The overall Ethiopianism of the period had some positive effect too, of course.
In fact one could argue the UNIA was but one of many organs birthed by an Ethiopianism
that culminated in the Ethiopian World Federation before losing its mass appeal.
Only once since then has the Spirit of the Times manifested into across the beam internal blk upliftment.

The 'You And I, Eh' is a social club today.
With all the advancements of this 21st century big monied blx don't seem interested in the race.

[ycoamigofull]

Jan 21, 2020 10:22:13 GMT -5 Tukuler al~Takruri said:

Just imagine an apparent irremediable F-up built the most successful Africans in the Americas organization ever on AfrAm soil.

... in 1914, he returned to Jamaica and founded the Universal Negro Improvement Association (U.N.I.A.).

[. . .]

In May of 1917, Garvey started the New York Division of the U.N.I.A. with 13 members.
After only three months, the organization's dues-paying membership reached 3,500.
By June 1919, the membership of the U.N.I.A. had grown to over 2 million members.
By 1920, the U.N.I.A. had 1,100 chapters in 40 countries around the world.
By 1926, the membership of the U.N.I.A. had grown to over 6 million members.

[. . .]

... Most of the chapters were located in the United States, which had become the
U.N.I.A.'s base of operations. There were, however, offices in several Caribbean
countries, with Cuba having the most. Chapters also existed in such diverse
countries as Panama, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Ecuador, Sierra Leone,
Liberia, Ghana, Nigeria, Namibia, Azania/South Africa, India, and Australia.

In September, 1926 the U.N.I.A. celebrated the opening Liberty University. They
acquired Smallwood-Corey Industrial Institute located in Claremont, Virginia. The
school property included several buildings and sixty-six acres of land along the
St. James River. 56 young U.N.I.A. members became students there beginning with
the fall session in 1926.

[. . .]

... the U.N.I.A.'s male Universal African Legion ... studied military discipline as
well as the geography of Africa, mathematics, reading and writing and other subjects.

... African Black Cross Nurses were modeled after the Red Cross. Although some
members had formal medical training, most worked with practical training in first
aid and nutrition. The auxiliary performed benevolent community work and provided
public health services to black neighborhoods, specializing in infant health and home care.

... the female Universal African Motor Corps were trained in
automobile driving and repair, as well as military discipline ...

... Black Eagle Flying Corps were trained as airplane pilots.

The Juvenile Divisions, the youth corps of the Garvey movement, were divided into classes according to age.
The infant class (ages one through seven)
studied the Bible, the doctrine of the U.N.I.A., and the history of Africa.

After the age of seven, the children were segregated by sex.
Girls were taught sewing, boys woodcraft, and both received
further instruction in Black history, economics and etiquette.

After the age of thirteen,
boys received military training to prepare them for ... the African Legion,
while girls learned hygiene and domestic science ... to be Black Cross Nurses.

<TAG TEAM Marketing International, Inc. © 2020>


The overall Ethiopianism of the period had some positive effect too, of course.
In fact one could argue the UNIA was but one of many organs birthed by an Ethiopianism
that culminated in the Ethiopian World Federation before losing its mass appeal.
Only once since then has the Spirit of the Times manifested into across the beam internal blk upliftment.

The 'You And I, Eh' is a social club today.
With all the advancements of this 21st century big monied blx don't seem interested in the race.

Yeah I am not doubting that there was a lot of inspiration and pride but Garvey was not the most successful. He faded in less than two decades, and in the last years he had lost his grip, and fallen out of favor because he met with and endorsed some racist Ku Klux Klan things. Compare that with what you have with the Tuskegee Institute and the NAACP. They are long-term institutions that survived and thrive while the hopes of millions of poor black people got drowned with the BlackStart Line in less than 5 years. All the great start he made never came out to anything lasting, not even in the short term when you think of how the shipping venture tanked. I ain’t saying there was no positive effects. A big problem was the faith Garvey put in capitalism which did not work too well. www.pambazuka.org/pan-africanism/marcus-garvey%E2%80%99s-economic-philosophy-has-capitalism-problem

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

Garvey's plan was to rip off poor black people?

I didn't know the 2,000,000 members were all poor.
Never looked into it really but I don't know any
blk founded org w/2,000,000 members
even if one tally's every year's membership, help.
and up to 6,000,00 members in 1926, 3 years after the BSL fiasco.
Dues paying membership, for one, is a quantifiable measure of success.
Do we have reliable verifiable figures?
Schomburg Research Guide: Marcus Garvey and the Universal Negro Improvement Association (UNIA)

What blk org had offices in North Central South and Caribbean Americas,
Atlantic, Guinea Gulf, and south of equator Atlantic African states,
South Asia, and Australia (note inclusion of E Indians and BlackFellas).

Multiple Guess Question as many as true:
J Edgar cut his pre-anti-Messiah teeth on
a NAACP (a Jewish org of the Spingarn Bros. Joel & Arthur)
b Garvey
c Tuskegee
d all o/t above
e none o/t above


I do think it's good to bring out more n more info for a 360 view.
Nobody and no thing is one sided, everything is multi-faceted.
So, please continue w/t Shadyside.

Perhaps the most lasting, widespread, and influential accomplishishment
The Tri-colors

[ycoamigofull]

I'm not saying he deliberately was a scammer, but I don't think that Garvey had 6 million or 2 million UNIA members. The different historians like Edward Cronon, and Robert Hill with his collection of The Marcus Garvey Papers don't show anything near that number. If there was 6 million members, even a tenth of that would give you 600,000 people, more than enough to fund a fleet of Black Star ships or cover the 250,000 loss on the first voyage. Garvey was a promoter and he was always inflating the true picture. Millions may have been sympathetic to his message but that never translated into 6 millions members. The Schomberg link you have shows Garvey claiming to have four million in 1920, just four years after he came to New York, climbing to 6 million members in 1923. These numbers are just plain unbelievable, and that's the problem, too many black people took and continue to take Garey's inflated numbers at face value. In the last year of the Black Start Line, Garvey could not even raise $25,000 to deposit on the last ship, the Phyllis Wheatley. You would think with 6 million members, or even 2 million, $25,000 would be easy to put up, but they couldn't even raise that, showing the big membership was never there.

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

I specifically asked for more about the Shadyside.
So the only expenses the org had was steamships?

Can you wave away all the other accomplishments?

The fact remains Garvey had the most successful org so far created by an Afrikan.

You forgot to fill in the membership figures for the orgs you feel were more successful or the monies black people of 5 continents donated or bought from.

Then there's this awaiting replies

What blk org had offices in North Central South and Caribbean Americas,
Atlantic, Guinea Gulf, and south of equator Atlantic African states,
South Asia, and Australia (note inclusion of E Indians and BlackFellas).

Multiple Guess Question as many as true:
J Edgar cut his pre-anti-Messiah teeth on
a NAACP (a Jewish org of the Spingarn Bros. Joel & Arthur)
b Garvey
c Tuskegee
d all o/t above
e none o/t above


I do think it's good to bring out more n more info for a 360 view.
Nobody and no thing is one sided, everything is multi-faceted.
So, please continue w/t Shadyside.

Perhaps the most lasting, widespread, and influential accomplishishment
The Tri-colors

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

I read of the Yarmouth being worth $25k but $165k was paid for it.

Again BSL ended in fiasco for reasons outside Garvey's control or influence not solely by his mistakes.

But more importantly what other black org had/has a commercial fleet?

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

Not sure what this's supposed to mean.

Jan 26, 2020 20:10:45 GMT -5 ycoamigofull said:

that's the problem, too many black people took and continue to take Garey's inflated numbers at face value.

There were/are many doubters including 'Garveyites'.

Must the 'too many black people' look to non-black people for everything?

Just who exactly is this 'too many black people'?
Are they quantifiable?
What characteristics do they share?

[zarahan]

To which I would add where's this $250,000 first voyage figure that's
being thrown around coming from? So far, nothing concrete produced.