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Post by mellomusings on Feb 2, 2020 17:07:45 GMT -5
Does anyone have anymore information concerning the archeological uncovering of the remains of a palace built of stone and a mosque?
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Post by anansi on Feb 3, 2020 2:42:03 GMT -5
Does anyone have anymore information concerning the archeological uncovering of the remains of a palace built of stone and a mosque? From what I gathered not much remained as far back as Richard Burton's time.
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Post by zarahan on Feb 3, 2020 21:43:35 GMT -5
Mello, what have you found so far online?
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Post by anansi on Feb 4, 2020 5:59:38 GMT -5
Btw nothing remained of the habitat of the world's richest individual either, Mansa Musa whoes palace must have been magnificent, Adobe structures need constant upkeep or they dissapear. Stone and mortar have a bit more longevity, worst are wooden structures.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Feb 4, 2020 7:41:06 GMT -5
Don't know about Gao in particular but will come back and fill this post after re-locating a jewel encrusted structure and the loss and rebuilding of a grand masjid considering I can re-find the source in F Dubois or Lady Lugard or whereever I 1st stumbled across it.
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Post by mellomusings on Feb 6, 2020 10:07:45 GMT -5
Does anyone have anymore information concerning the archeological uncovering of the remains of a palace built of stone and a mosque? From what I gathered not much remained as far back as Richard Burton's time. That is certainly unfortunate and yes while buildings constructed of adobe can boast spectacular architectural feats such as the various Sudanic mosques that dot throughout the Sahel and Savannah (my faveriote being the Great Mosque of Niono) but as stated it is a misfortune that they do rarely survive the tides of time but if I recall correctly but please correct me if I'm wrong I thought that Mansa KanKan Musa's palace was constructed of stone and mortar rather than adobe but concerning ancient Mali I do have a link to an article discussing an archelogical site identified as an urban site that fell under the hegemony of Mali that sported gravel pavements.
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Post by mellomusings on Feb 6, 2020 11:26:21 GMT -5
Mello, what have you found so far online? Not relatively much as the academic sites just give a brief location, date, and description of the site at best and I can't fully access the articles.
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Post by mellomusings on Feb 6, 2020 11:27:51 GMT -5
Don't know about Gao in particular but will come back and fill this post after re-locating a jewel encrusted structure and the loss and rebuilding of a grand masjid considering I can re-find the source in F Dubois or Lady Lugard or whereever I 1st syubled across it. Thank you that would be most appreciated.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Feb 6, 2020 12:35:52 GMT -5
Since the OP asks for stone architecture hope what follows is on topic. Will develop a series of snippets on it from Tichitt to Songhai Empire. It won't be strictly chronological, it will start with easy to access Flora Lugard.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Feb 6, 2020 16:55:21 GMT -5
OK taking the lazy way out with Lugard
I used ta own a pamphlet by Edmonds & Sweeting w/a artist interpretation' illo of the castle.
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Post by mellomusings on Feb 7, 2020 1:57:01 GMT -5
Since the OP asks for stone architecture hope what follows is on topic. Will develop a series of snippets on it from Tichitt to Songhai Empire. It won't be strictly chronological, it will start with easy to access Flora Lugard. It was more so in relation towards the archelogical site known as stated within the title "Ancien-Gao", formerly apart of the Gao Empire which similarly as it's counterpart Wagadu given the description of having two towns of cultural, economic, religious, and social importance being opposite of one another one usually being occupied by societal elites, while the other inhabited by people such as merchants, craftsmen, and the everyday average joe. But feel free to post about more stone archelogical sites that dot the Sahel and Savannah and other areas of West Africa I'm always up to learn something new.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Feb 8, 2020 14:18:46 GMT -5
Can't say why I don't expect to find this in my hardcopy library when I can't recall hearing of ancient Gao's stone architecture. Wish I had Levtzion's Corpus, if Arabic writers are the source.
All Lugard has is • originally a city of 'Rainforesters' (interpreting Herodotus) • home city of Pharaoh's sorcerers testing Musa (Tarikh es-Sudan) • what you wrote in your last post about Sahelian cities in general • alternate spellings: Kagho Kaougha Kaukau (Kawkaw) • a completely different original name(?), Burrum.
My only Lugard reference to "a palace built of stone and a mosque" is one built by Mansa Gonga Musa returning from hajj
I dunno but maybe I took Ancien-Gao to mean some earlier Songhai city eg Djenné vs Djenné-Geno and I overlooked the word masjid. The city was trading with Tahert in western Algeria in the 8th century Though later from time to time under Mali's hegemony, in the 9th c. al-Ya`qubi records Gao is already the seat of empire {from Levtzion}
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Post by mellomusings on Feb 8, 2020 17:54:44 GMT -5
Can't say why I don't expect to find this in my hardcopy library when I can't recall hearing of ancient Gao's stone architecture. Wish I had Levtzion's Corpus, if Arabic writers are the source. All Lugard has is • originally a city of 'Rainforesters' (interpreting Herodotus) • home city of Pharaoh's sorcerers testing Musa (Tarikh es-Sudan) • what you wrote in your last post about Sahelian cities in general • alternate spellings: Kagho Kaougha Kaukau (Kawkaw) • a completely different original name(?), Burrum. My only Lugard reference to "a palace built of stone and a mosque"is one built by Mansa Gonga Musa returning from hajj I dunno but maybe I took Ancien-Gao to mean some earlier Songhai city eg Djenné vs Djenné-Geno and I overlooked the word masjid. The city was trading with Tahert in western Algeria in the 8th century Though later from time to time under Mali's hegemony, in the 9th c. al-Ya`qubi records Gao is already the seat of empire {from Levtzion} I actually have Levtzion's Corpus translated works of various Arabic accounts of their travels throughout the Sudan on my book hit list alongside Micheal A. Gomez's latest publication African Dominion that might help shed light on the subject in question.
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Post by kemetic on Feb 9, 2020 15:40:03 GMT -5
This study is probably what your aiming for. journals.openedition.org/etudesafricaines/17167From what I gathered from the it, their theories are: 1. The area was first occupied by the Songhai people who had already had a flourishing trade industry in the region. 2. This industry than attracted the attention of North African merchants who settled into the region and establishing manufacturing industries, helping to make Gao an economic power house. 3. It was Berbers rather than the Songhai who built the palace while Gao was under Almoravid control. They argued that the building technique was unique in West Africa at this time and you can attest to it by the use of rectangular blocks which is still referred to as the "White Men's Brick" in West Africa today. I've read other studies on Gao and it seems pretty much accepted that the area became pretty multicultural in it's golden age, but the first industries and initial settlement was started by Songhai people. Later, Berbers moved in and establish more industries which helped Gao grow even further.
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Post by mellomusings on Feb 9, 2020 23:33:14 GMT -5
This study is probably what your aiming for. journals.openedition.org/etudesafricaines/17167From what I gathered from the it, their theories are: 1. The area was first occupied by the Songhai people who had already had a flourishing trade industry in the region. 2. This industry than attracted the attention of North African merchants who settled into the region and establishing manufacturing industries, helping to make Gao an economic power house. 3. It was Berbers rather than the Songhai who built the palace while Gao was under Almoravid control. They argued that the building technique was unique in West Africa at this time and you can attest to it by the use of rectangular blocks which is still referred to as the "White Men's Brick" in West Africa today. I've read other studies on Gao and it seems pretty much accepted that the area became pretty multicultural in it's golden age, but the first industries and initial settlement was started by Songhai people. Later, Berbers moved in and establish more industries which helped Gao grow even further. Thank you for sharing, although I was already aware of most the information presented within your post I again thank you for contribution. Although most of the information is speculative and theoretical in nature due a number of early West African polities lacking written documentation besides from a few casual outside observers (some of whom having never actually visited the region) what is your hypothesis? I think it is plausible that as a testament towards the extensive power, influence, and connections these polities possessed but Ancien-Gao more specifically as in the case of this post could have contracted the use of Berber architects but I personally believe that a new building technique and technology was simply introduced into the region as evidenced as you pointed out of the introduction of rectangular bricks replacing the formerly used cylindrical bricks used throughout the region at the time (although the use of cylindrical bricks are still in use amongst the Hausa peoples) instead of the formerly mentioned hypothesis since the use and incorporation of stone as a building material was already long in use as evidenced by the Dhar complexes that dot and span throughout Southern Mauritania.
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