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Post by kemetic on Feb 11, 2020 13:24:35 GMT -5
This study is probably what your aiming for. journals.openedition.org/etudesafricaines/17167From what I gathered from the it, their theories are: 1. The area was first occupied by the Songhai people who had already had a flourishing trade industry in the region. 2. This industry than attracted the attention of North African merchants who settled into the region and establishing manufacturing industries, helping to make Gao an economic power house. 3. It was Berbers rather than the Songhai who built the palace while Gao was under Almoravid control. They argued that the building technique was unique in West Africa at this time and you can attest to it by the use of rectangular blocks which is still referred to as the "White Men's Brick" in West Africa today. I've read other studies on Gao and it seems pretty much accepted that the area became pretty multicultural in it's golden age, but the first industries and initial settlement was started by Songhai people. Later, Berbers moved in and establish more industries which helped Gao grow even further. Thank you for sharing, although I was already aware of most the information presented within your post I again thank you for contribution. Although most of the information is speculative and theoretical in nature due a number of early West African polities lacking written documentation besides from a few casual outside observers (some of whom having never actually visited the region) what is your hypothesis? I think it is plausible that as a testament towards the extensive power, influence, and connections these polities possessed but Ancien-Gao more specifically as in the case of this post could have contracted the use of Berber architects but I personally believe that a new building technique and technology was simply introduced into the region as evidenced as you pointed out of the introduction of rectangular bricks replacing the formerly used cylindrical bricks used throughout the region at the time (although the use of cylindrical bricks are still in use amongst the Hausa peoples) instead of the formerly mentioned hypothesis since the use and incorporation of stone as a building material was already long in use as evidenced by the Dhar complexes that dot and span throughout Southern Mauritania. I haven't ruled anyone out as far as who the builders of the palace could be, but I do have some reservations on it coming from the Songhai. For one, if the Songhai did build it, why did they not continue on with this technique after? The African people of this area were still building with their own traditional styles long after, and they wouldn't even adopt rectangular bricks till at least the late 1800s-1900s. According to another study, the fire-brick that was also found in these buildings was also short lived in Gao and was thus attributed to North African influence. The Songhai preferred using banco. If there is evidence of a migrant community on this site, and the buildings was built in a style that was the first of it's kind in the region and from that migrant area, and the indigenous people did not continue to build with this style but continue on working with their own traditional techniques, than that leads me to believe that it was built by said migrants. Also, the fact that the African people of today even call it the "white's man brick" despite this brick making an appearance in West Africa as early as the 10 century, and it still took till the 1900s for many African people to embrace it, just goes to show you how foreign the technique is still viewed.
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Ancien-Gao
Feb 11, 2020 18:32:12 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by mellomusings on Feb 11, 2020 18:32:12 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing, although I was already aware of most the information presented within your post I again thank you for contribution. Although most of the information is speculative and theoretical in nature due a number of early West African polities lacking written documentation besides from a few casual outside observers (some of whom having never actually visited the region) what is your hypothesis? I think it is plausible that as a testament towards the extensive power, influence, and connections these polities possessed but Ancien-Gao more specifically as in the case of this post could have contracted the use of Berber architects but I personally believe that a new building technique and technology was simply introduced into the region as evidenced as you pointed out of the introduction of rectangular bricks replacing the formerly used cylindrical bricks used throughout the region at the time (although the use of cylindrical bricks are still in use amongst the Hausa peoples) instead of the formerly mentioned hypothesis since the use and incorporation of stone as a building material was already long in use as evidenced by the Dhar complexes that dot and span throughout Southern Mauritania. I haven't ruled anyone out as far as who the builders of the palace could be, but I do have some reservations on it coming from the Songhai. For one, if the Songhai did build it, why did they not continue on with this technique after? The African people of this area were still building with their own traditional styles long after, and they wouldn't even adopt rectangular bricks till at least the late 1800s-1900s. According to another study, the fire-brick that was also found in these buildings was also short lived in Gao and was thus attributed to North African influence. The Songhai preferred using banco. If there is evidence of a migrant community on this site, and the buildings was built in a style that was the first of it's kind in the region and from that migrant area, and the indigenous people did not continue to build with this style but continue on working with their own traditional techniques, than that leads me to believe that it was built by said migrants. Also, the fact that the African people of today even call it the "white's man brick" despite this brick making an appearance in West Africa as early as the 10 century, and it still took till the 1900s for many African people to embrace it, just goes to show you how foreign the technique is still viewed. Thank you for sharing. So since your hypothesis states that it would have been built by migrants, would it then been inhabited by the aforementioned or would have they been simply contracted by local wealthy elites? While I wholly agree with your overall analysis I do have to point out that stone was also incorporated alongside more traditional building materials such as adobe and while the use of burnt brick was relatively rare within the Western Sudan/Sahelian zones yet a little further East within the Central Sudan where the famous two phased empire Kanem-Bornu reigned burnt brick sites are far more common and also at one point the Sahelian climate wasn't as arid and harsh as it is now as noted by some early Arabic scholars and geographers have noted whom actually visited the area so the site in question of Ancien-Gao may have began to deteriorate alongside the environment just a guess.
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Post by kemetic on Feb 11, 2020 21:07:00 GMT -5
I haven't ruled anyone out as far as who the builders of the palace could be, but I do have some reservations on it coming from the Songhai. For one, if the Songhai did build it, why did they not continue on with this technique after? The African people of this area were still building with their own traditional styles long after, and they wouldn't even adopt rectangular bricks till at least the late 1800s-1900s. According to another study, the fire-brick that was also found in these buildings was also short lived in Gao and was thus attributed to North African influence. The Songhai preferred using banco. If there is evidence of a migrant community on this site, and the buildings was built in a style that was the first of it's kind in the region and from that migrant area, and the indigenous people did not continue to build with this style but continue on working with their own traditional techniques, than that leads me to believe that it was built by said migrants. Also, the fact that the African people of today even call it the "white's man brick" despite this brick making an appearance in West Africa as early as the 10 century, and it still took till the 1900s for many African people to embrace it, just goes to show you how foreign the technique is still viewed. Thank you for sharing. So since your hypothesis states that it would have been built by migrants, would it then been inhabited by the aforementioned or would have they been simply contracted by local wealthy elites? While I wholly agree with your overall analysis I do have to point out that stone was also incorporated alongside more traditional building materials such as adobe and while the use of burnt brick was relatively rare within the Western Sudan/Sahelian zones yet a little further East within the Central Sudan where the famous two phased empire Kanem-Bornu reigned burnt brick sites are far more common and also at one point the Sahelian climate wasn't as arid and harsh as it is now as noted by some early Arabic scholars and geographers have noted whom actually visited the area so the site in question of Ancien-Gao may have began to deteriorate alongside the environment just a guess. Every study I've read of Gao pretty much agrees that North Africans settled there. It was home to both indigenous people and North Africans with the indigenous making up the majority population. As far as who built it, my guess would be it would have been built by both populations since the man-power needed to build it was immense. In my previous post when I said it was the North African migrants who built it, I was actually referring to the architects.
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Post by mellomusings on Feb 12, 2020 6:40:16 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing. So since your hypothesis states that it would have been built by migrants, would it then been inhabited by the aforementioned or would have they been simply contracted by local wealthy elites? While I wholly agree with your overall analysis I do have to point out that stone was also incorporated alongside more traditional building materials such as adobe and while the use of burnt brick was relatively rare within the Western Sudan/Sahelian zones yet a little further East within the Central Sudan where the famous two phased empire Kanem-Bornu reigned burnt brick sites are far more common and also at one point the Sahelian climate wasn't as arid and harsh as it is now as noted by some early Arabic scholars and geographers have noted whom actually visited the area so the site in question of Ancien-Gao may have began to deteriorate alongside the environment just a guess. Every study I've read of Gao pretty much agrees that North Africans settled there. It was home to both indigenous people and North Africans with the indigenous making up the majority population. As far as who built it, my guess would be it would have been built by both populations since the man-power needed to build it was immense. In my previous post when I said it was the North African migrants who built it, I was actually referring to the architects. Makes since, since North Africans would settle within the Sudan for a number of reasons chiefly for economic, religious, and later political/diplomatic purposes plus before Islam firmly took root they would regularly be employed within the service of the ruling elite, and I recall stone was rather rare in West Africa so adobe would've the most optimal choice especially as a response towards the changing environment and climate.
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Post by mansamusa on Feb 13, 2020 12:02:45 GMT -5
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Post by mansamusa on Feb 13, 2020 12:37:16 GMT -5
The authors propose based on the pottery style, the majority of the inhabitants would have been Songhay or people form that region. They also have a more nuanced take on the mudpbrick architecture:
"The question of who lived at Gao Saney is an interesting one. Insoll (1996: 46), extrapolating from the variety of scripts found on the cemetery stele and assuming the contemporaneity of the cemetery and the occupation mound, argued for a polyglot community of indigenous and Muslim North African/Berber peoples.
He proposed that the banco/pisé/tauf architecture at the site might be a Songhay technology, while acknowledging that banco was in widespread use in North Africa and elsewhere (Insoll 1996: 45; banco architecture is documented in the early first millennium CE at several middle Niger sites — McIntosh 1995; MacDonald 1997–8; Park 2010). The rectangular mud brick architecture documented by the Gao Saney excavations is approximately contemporaneous with rectangular mud brick at Tongo Maare Diabel, near Douentza (MacDonald 1997–8) and Es-Souk (Nixon 2009). This technology dates back to the first millennium BCE at Garamantian sites (Mattingly 2003: 160–176).
The Gao Saney pottery provides strong evidence for a local, Niger River-based population element at the site. The Saney assemblage lies within the broad zone of first millennium CE polychrome pottery found along the Niger from the lower Inland Niger Delta (McIntosh 1995; Arazi 2005; Schmidt et al. 2005) and the Lakes region (Raimbault & Sanogo 1991), to Timbuktu (McIntosh & McIntosh 1986; Park 2011) and downriver past Gao to Ansongo and Bentia (Arazi 1997). Within this ‘Niger River polychrome zone’ (S.K. McIntosh and M. Cissé, see footnote 2), forms, pastes, and tempers change from one region to another, but the prominence of red/black/ white paint, with or without red slip is a constant."
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Ancien-Gao
Feb 13, 2020 15:56:09 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by mellomusings on Feb 13, 2020 15:56:09 GMT -5
The authors propose based on the pottery style, the majority of the inhabitants would have been Songhay or people form that region. They also have a more nuanced take on the mudpbrick architecture: "The question of who lived at Gao Saney is an interesting one. Insoll (1996: 46), extrapolating from the variety of scripts found on the cemetery stele and assuming the contemporaneity of the cemetery and the occupation mound, argued for a polyglot community of indigenous and Muslim North African/Berber peoples. He proposed that the banco/pisé/tauf architecture at the site might be a Songhay technology, while acknowledging that banco was in widespread use in North Africa and elsewhere (Insoll 1996: 45; banco architecture is documented in the early first millennium CE at several middle Niger sites — McIntosh 1995; MacDonald 1997–8; Park 2010). The rectangular mud brick architecture documented by the Gao Saney excavations is approximately contemporaneous with rectangular mud brick at Tongo Maare Diabel, near Douentza (MacDonald 1997–8) and Es-Souk (Nixon 2009). This technology dates back to the first millennium BCE at Garamantian sites (Mattingly 2003: 160–176). The Gao Saney pottery provides strong evidence for a local, Niger River-based population element at the site. The Saney assemblage lies within the broad zone of first millennium CE polychrome pottery found along the Niger from the lower Inland Niger Delta (McIntosh 1995; Arazi 2005; Schmidt et al. 2005) and the Lakes region (Raimbault & Sanogo 1991), to Timbuktu (McIntosh & McIntosh 1986; Park 2011) and downriver past Gao to Ansongo and Bentia (Arazi 1997). Within this ‘Niger River polychrome zone’ (S.K. McIntosh and M. Cissé, see footnote 2), forms, pastes, and tempers change from one region to another, but the prominence of red/black/ white paint, with or without red slip is a constant." I'll be sure to take a peek at the article cited although the intended purpose of this post was to mine for information on the archelogical uncovering of a royal palace so if you have additional information concerning it that would help although I believe I have already the article but I'll take care to review it to make sure. But I was already aware of the presence of a minority of North Africans/Berbers settling within the region while the locals made up a majority of the population, so I'll ask you the same question as I have asked a previous poster, "Would the structure been constructed by locals or foreigners that would later settle in the region or a combination of both?". Also aren't you on Historum?
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Post by mansamusa on Feb 20, 2020 9:55:38 GMT -5
Well the article is about the royal place at Gao. The structure would most likely have been built by locals, especially if the technology had already been introduced in the region. Yeah, I am the sam Mansamusa in Historum
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Post by mellomusings on Feb 20, 2020 10:39:12 GMT -5
Well the article is about the royal place at Gao. The structure would most likely have been built by locals, especially if the technology had already been introduced in the region. Yeah, I am the sam Mansamusa in Historum I just picked up Micheal A. Gomez's latest work "African Dominion", so maybe he will help shed a little more light on the subject in question. I thought it was you because I lurk on the forum from time to time mainly the African History thread and I salute you and other Afro-centered historians contribution and patience towards the site because I know it can be quite tiresome addressing the questions and topics over and over again.
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Post by anansi on Feb 21, 2020 6:17:12 GMT -5
Money well invested, the Hutchins Center vid is also a great download.
Or1 of 3
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Ancien-Gao
Feb 21, 2020 14:38:06 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by mellomusings on Feb 21, 2020 14:38:06 GMT -5
Money well invested, the Hutchins Center vid is also a great download. Or1 of 3 It was indeed and I also viewed part one of this series in another post not sure which I have to take the time out to watch them and also if you and anyone else is interested whenever I get around to reading it, I plan on purchasing a book scanner and notebook to upload excerpts from the books currently within my possession in order to have a more in depth analysis and discussion on particular subjects as well as the introduction of new information that you maybe unfamiliar with but only at the request of other posters. So just send me a message if interested and I'll be making a list of all the books I have and we'll go over them together to foster further learning.
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Post by ramciel on Oct 11, 2020 11:16:00 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing, although I was already aware of most the information presented within your post I again thank you for contribution. Although most of the information is speculative and theoretical in nature due a number of early West African polities lacking written documentation besides from a few casual outside observers (some of whom having never actually visited the region) what is your hypothesis? I think it is plausible that as a testament towards the extensive power, influence, and connections these polities possessed but Ancien-Gao more specifically as in the case of this post could have contracted the use of Berber architects but I personally believe that a new building technique and technology was simply introduced into the region as evidenced as you pointed out of the introduction of rectangular bricks replacing the formerly used cylindrical bricks used throughout the region at the time (although the use of cylindrical bricks are still in use amongst the Hausa peoples) instead of the formerly mentioned hypothesis since the use and incorporation of stone as a building material was already long in use as evidenced by the Dhar complexes that dot and span throughout Southern Mauritania. I haven't ruled anyone out as far as who the builders of the palace could be, but I do have some reservations on it coming from the Songhai. For one, if the Songhai did build it, why did they not continue on with this technique after? The African people of this area were still building with their own traditional styles long after, and they wouldn't even adopt rectangular bricks till at least the late 1800s-1900s. According to another study, the fire-brick that was also found in these buildings was also short lived in Gao and was thus attributed to North African influence. The Songhai preferred using banco. If there is evidence of a migrant community on this site, and the buildings was built in a style that was the first of it's kind in the region and from that migrant area, and the indigenous people did not continue to build with this style but continue on working with their own traditional techniques, than that leads me to believe that it was built by said migrants. Also, the fact that the African people of today even call it the "white's man brick" despite this brick making an appearance in West Africa as early as the 10 century, and it still took till the 1900s for many African people to embrace it, just goes to show you how foreign the technique is still viewed. "White man's bricks" (tubabu ferey) aren’t the term for kiln-dried bricks, theyre thick wood molded rectangular sun-dried bricks, as opposed to hand molded cylindrical Djenne’s bricks (djenne ferey). In Djenne tubabu ferey are made with a rectangular wooden mold which required specific wood that was imported, which made it expensive and a sign of the elite. Kiln-dried bricks were even more costly needing both imported forms and fuel. Except for mosques, tombs, and some other monuments, most buildings in modern Djenne (and possibly most of Mali) are sun-dried tubabu ferey and most builders have forgotten how to build with djenne ferey. Rectangular adobe and kiln-dried bricks are only called "tubabu" by the Bambara. The Bambara word tubabu is derived from the arabic word for doctor, tabīb, because of the association with frenchmen in Mali being doctors (specifically médecins, not docteurs or PhDs). Thus, tubabu ferey is a very recent term and not indicative of building techniques for most of the past millennium. Large rectangular wood molded bricks had already been used decades before in Hamdullahi. The association of the french with this kind of brick is because under the colonial administration there was mass forced labor to make thick wood molded rectangular kiln-dried bricks and this was widely rejected by Africans during the 1900s. The association is also driven from Seku Amadu literally rewriting history and forsaking certain building methods as either being un-Islamic or of Moroccan origin. Tubabu ferey are large and thick bricks. The rectangular sun and kiln-dried bricks at Gao are unique because they are very flat, and the narrow portion of the kiln-dried brick forms the thickness of the wall. This is unlike most buildings everywhere else but resembles the way stone slabs were used in the nearby rectangular tombs. In Gao the kiln-dried bricks were selectively used, for example the walls of the mosque were sun-dried, but the mihrab was built of kiln-dried brick. Malinke and Bambara construction used bricks that were unlike the cylindrical djenne ferey. The Malinke brick is rectangular, thin, flat, hand molded, and sun-dried. Malinke bricks were observed in all villages between Oulasso and Djenne. It's believed these bricks were developed to replicate the older stonework to the north as the composition of stones in parts of Mauretania allow them to split easily and evenly with traditional tools, but stones in regions to the south can’t be worked or built with in the same way. Malinke bricks just as well could be an attempt at simulating the thin kiln-dried bricks of the elite. Various hand molded, kiln-dried bricks have been made for non-structural purposes such as paving stones. Handu dyerey are a curved variety used to decorate walls. Structural kiln-dried bricks were used throughout the Kanem-Borno states for the elite, and evidence shows their production was likely under strict state control. Kiln-dried bricks aren’t seen in southern Morocco but are seen in central North African cities that were connected to the Central Sudan. Kiln-dried bricks aren't an inherently superior material over sun-dried ones that’d necessitate wide adoption. The regions near Lake Chad where kiln-dried bricks were most extensively used are the areas where there are no stones suitable for building. In many cases a combination of kiln-dried brick and earthen curtain walls replaced a method that used stone and earthen curtain walls. Using unfired bricks, plaster, etc, gives buildings superior thermal mass which makes it much cooler and comfortable to live in. see: Prussin, L. (1981). Building Technologies in the West African Savannah Magnavita, C., &; Magnavita, S. (2017). Garumele Revisited: Retracing Vanished Fired-Brick Elite Constructions and New Data on Settlement Foundation. African Archaeological Review, 34(2), 155-175. doi:10.1007/s10437-017-9255-1 Prussin, L. (1970). Sudanese Architecture and the Manding. African Arts, 3(4), 12. doi:10.2307/3345902 Seidensticker, W. (1981). Borno and the East: Notes and Hypotheses on the Technology of Burnt Bricks. Nilo-Saharan Proceedings, 239-250. doi:10.1515/9783110883466-018 Bourgeois, J. (1987). The History of the Great Mosques of Djenné. African Arts, 20(3), 54. doi:10.2307/3336477
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