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Post by anansi on May 16, 2020 1:05:02 GMT -5
The Vets here can attest to Al Takruri's mind blowing revelations of the quoted passage of Pirke de-Rabbi Eliezer about the coloring of Noah's three sons or branches.
Two of the branches being blessed Black,
one as Black and Beautiful
and the other being Black like a raven.
Yet another being blessed white all over.
Since then it has gone viral, recopied and paste on countless sites, blogs and scholarly articles in cyberspace.
That's the great part, the not so great part is most sources I've attempted to access, tried to water down the "BLACK"
part and substitute "Dark"
thus taking away the power Blackness
conveyed.
If it wasn't for the comparison with a Raven, it's original intent would have been lost.
given the fact that all the Ravens I've laid eyes on,destroying my rubbish not properly secured, weren't simply dark but black!.
At first I thought I was over thinking this stuff , you know dark vs black = the samething right??...then I thought hell no!, why would anyone wanna go through the trouble to make that subtle shift except for the sake of obscurity.
Why are folks so afraid of using the term black
with populations immediately adjacent to Africa, especially when primary sources demand it's usage.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on May 16, 2020 1:18:22 GMT -5
Wish I could take credit but all kudos to the 8th century Jews of Palestine.
Me? I been pushing it online since 1999.
T'anks mi Brada 4/t propers
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Post by anansi on May 16, 2020 1:28:46 GMT -5
Wish I could take credit but all kudos to the 10th(?) century Jews of Palestine. Me? I been pushing it online since 1999. T'anks mi Brada 4/t propers Yeah but that's just it tho!! ,,you bought it to light, else none a we would never know it existed much less track it down for further research.
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Post by zarahan on May 24, 2020 20:46:25 GMT -5
Indeed. I have seen it quoted but what's the precise reference- chapter/verse source? Used to be an old ES thread on it I think, but its vanished.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on May 25, 2020 10:57:41 GMT -5
GOOGLE search query --> site:egyptsearch.com pirqe de ribbi 'eli`ezer For white Jews' hand-wringing over Shem's blackness see books.google.com/books?id=GVmQAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA213&lpg=PA213 where Turkish Jews saw a need to soften Yaphet's whiteness though white skin with blond hair was considered leprosy by Israel until German's converted to Judaism c.300 CE
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Post by zarahan on May 27, 2020 9:29:46 GMT -5
Great reference. Adds new meaning to the term "whitewashing".. QUOTE: "Pirkei de’Rabbi Eliezer 24 [Chapters of Rabbi Eliezer; PdRE. c. 830 AD] contains the Midrash on Noah’s blessings to his sons. Shem and his sons are described as ‘black and comely’ (shehoritn ve-naim), Japheth and his sons as ‘white and handsome’ (levanim ve-yafim), while Ham and his sons are ‘black as the raven’ (shehorim ka*orev). In the original, Shem’s blackness is expressed in a positive way, by association with ‘black and comely’ in the Song of Songs, though Ham’s blackness becomes negative through association with the raven. This, however, did not satisfy the copiers and compilers of the printed versions. They found it hard to accept Shem as black, with the concomitant danger of blurring the difference between him and Ham. As a result, some versions tended to ‘whiten’ Shem. As early as the thirteenth century, a manuscript described Shem as white. In the Venetian edition (second printing, 1544) and in the second Venetian edition (1608) the original version appears in the body of the text. In the table of contents, however, we find ‘blessed Shem and Japheth with whiteness (Javnitt) ... and Ham with blackness (shaharut)’. Shem becomes white in all respects, and instead of the dangerous common denominator with black Ham, he gets to resemble the attractive white Japheth. In parallel fashion, Japheth’s whiteness becomes more positive in the early printed versions (Constantinople 1514, Venice 1544 and Sabbioneta 1567), when the adjective ‘handsome’ (yafeh) is added to ‘white’. Furthermore, the ambiguous description given of Ham as ‘black as the raven’ is replaced instead by the unequivocal ‘black and ugly’. Jews were trying to resemble the fair white Japheth, i.e. the European identified as the model to emulate, and thus more handsome and ‘cultured’, a process discerned elsewhere as well.6" --Abraham Melamed. The Image of the Black in Jewish Culture: A History of the Other. pg 213
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on May 29, 2020 18:53:13 GMT -5
Here's how and where I read it back in the 90's But make no mistake, שחור , is the strongest Hebrew word for the color black. ברך נח ובניו שנא' ויברך אותם אלהים במתנותיה והנחילם את כל הארץ. ברך לשם ולבניו שחורים ונאים והנחילם את כל ארץ נושבת ברך לחם ובניו שחורים כעורב והנחילם חוף הים ברך ליפת ובניו כלם לבני' ויפי' והנחילם מדבר ושדות אלה הנחלות שהנחילם.
It's one of the various d*rasha type study materials some expounders go over before Saturday's public Torah reading. Different commentators reveal their insights on the reading.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Jun 8, 2020 11:07:55 GMT -5
Bradda You might like my first internet foray
Originally posted by YYT al~Takruri: thenile.phpbb-host.com/phpbb/sutra2898.php&highlight=hays#2898
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Post by anansi on Jun 9, 2020 12:29:52 GMT -5
Much thanks scholar, where would we be without ya.
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