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Post by Shadow on Nov 5, 2020 8:07:17 GMT -5
I found this Christian blog that makes a bunch of bias Eurocentric claims regarding the Black presence in the Bible. One of the claims that definitely caught my attention as being worth debunking was whether the Ethiopian that was baptized by Philip, an ethnic Ethiopian or actually a Judaean. He makes a compelling case that seems to support his thesis, but I still remain skeptical given that he was proclaimed to be a literal Ethiopian, which by the way is ironic, considering that the guy also argues that the Judaeans were White. In a sense, he is making the case that the Judaeans were generally seen as a dark skinned (Black) population, even considering themselves as such. In my opinion about this whole thing, I really make no objection about the evidence being made about the Eunuch. I think that I could be plausible that the Eunuch was Jewish and simply making a pilgrimage to the holy land. The only thing that object and criticize is the claim being made about the Eunuch. I am willing to succeed this point if anyone of you guys are interested in putting out any evidence to the contrary. Here’s the link: teknatoutheou.home.blog/2020/10/25/the-ethiopian-eunuch-and-simon-niger-negroe-saints/
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Post by anansi on Nov 6, 2020 5:46:54 GMT -5
I found this Christian blog that makes a bunch of bias Eurocentric claims regarding the Black presence in the Bible. One of the claims that definitely caught my attention as being worth debunking was whether the Ethiopian that was baptized by Philip, an ethnic Ethiopian or actually a Judaean. He makes a compelling case that seems to support his thesis, but I still remain skeptical given that he was proclaimed to be a literal Ethiopian, which by the way is ironic, considering that the guy also argues that the Judaeans were White. In a sense, he is making the case that the Judaeans were generally seen as a dark skinned (Black) population, even considering themselves as such. In my opinion about this whole thing, I really make no objection about the evidence being made about the Eunuch. I think that I could be plausible that the Eunuch was Jewish and simply making a pilgrimage to the holy land. The only thing that object and criticize is the claim being made about the Eunuch. I am willing to succeed this point if anyone of you guys are interested in putting out any evidence to the contrary. Here’s the link: teknatoutheou.home.blog/2020/10/25/the-ethiopian-eunuch-and-simon-niger-negroe-saints/{ The remains found at Lakish:The excavacation uncovered a mass of human bones,which was estamated to from the remains of fifteen hundred individuals..remains of 695 skulls were brought to London by the British expidition...curiously,the crania indicate a close resemblance to the population of Egypt at this time...the relationships found suggest that the population of the town in 700 B.C was entirely of Egyptian origin..they show further,that the population of lakish was probably derived from upper Egypt.James e Brunson} Well there were / are truly were Black Judeans in the population But why assume he was not a foreigner, the fact that he had earlier ties to Judaism is not a thing, as Africa's Blacks had a long relations with folks in the area going back centuries. this statement by Pliny The Elder-Roman Naturalist.... That Syria was once the domain of Cepheus, an Ethiopian king,Tacitus wrote that the Romans believed that the Jews originated in Ethiopia but fled the persecutions of the King. Strabo,even earlier,stressed that people of Western Judea was Africiod: But although the inhibatance are mixed up thus,the most accerdited reports in regards to the people of Jerusalem reperesents the ancestors of the present Judeans as they are called Egyptians} egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/83/ancient-hebrews-black?page=7&scrollTo=568Here^^ oldie but goodie. egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/thread/99/case-black-mesopotamiansGo here\^^^ it might help, btw pls don't be impressed by anyone's proclaimed ethno/nationality in most cases they know just as much as you do, except in the realm of language and perhaps tradition.
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Post by anansi on Nov 6, 2020 6:26:59 GMT -5
This is a reconstruction done sometime ago In Israel with the sensationalist Title .Black Like Me? Israeli Researcher Reconstructs Ancient Jewish Faces quote failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2009/01/researcher-reconstructs-ancient-jewish-faces.htmlAnd let's not forget the Egyptians stationed troops with southern backgrounds in their empire days in the area since the days of Papi II. more than likely sex occurred follow by lil brats. And Kush direct involvement in that state or proto state,which may explain Lakish, but that's just guessing in my part.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Nov 6, 2020 8:22:29 GMT -5
The Three Elders of Lachish bowing to SennacheribPersonally I think Kushization of Lachish is racist swill supported by nothing. Any blackness of biblical era Hebrew peoples must be explained away extraneous. Imagine the whole city nappy haired and bearded men without Keshli profiles. Lakhish represents indigenous ancient big city southern Hebrew phenotype not current Euro Ashkenazim taken as the epitome of everything Jewish by tyros. I find it wishful thinking a billet of soldiers determined the phenotype of an entire city's founding population. That such a thing explains away all the Classical notices of Judah/Judaean similarity to Egyptians and Sudanese. O I C all of them including Saul/Paul were just Keshli faking Jewish identity. Data from Price(2009) and Moorjani(2011) support Mandenka exemplified autosome ancestry in Jews goes back at the latest to before their 6th century BCE diaspora the time period of the Isaiah scroll and the earliest at 8th c. BCE when Israel seceded from the United Kingdom. The two estimators place West African autosome presence upwards of 3400-4000 yrs, before anything like Israelites were even heard of. Joppa/Yaffa/Tel Aviv was considered an Aithiopia in its own. Aithiopia generic meaning black people existed from the Sun's rising to it's setting a vast southern hemisphere expanse. What? That means they were all Lower to Middle Nile Sudani? One type of Shasu or south Israel/Palestine indigenous Eastern Kushi Canaan types or Palestine/Israel indigenous Kushi Tons of ancient Lebanese ivories depict themselves of eastern Aethiopian antecedents Use of Kushi here understood as eastern Ethiopian biblical non-Sudani Kushites
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Nov 6, 2020 10:51:19 GMT -5
I found this Christian blog that makes a bunch of bias Eurocentric claims regarding the Black presence in the Bible. One of the claims that definitely caught my attention as being worth debunking was whether the Ethiopian that was baptized by Philip, an ethnic Ethiopian or actually a Judaean. He makes a compelling case that seems to support his thesis, but I still remain skeptical given that he was proclaimed to be a literal Ethiopian, which by the way is ironic, considering that the guy also argues that the Judaeans were White. In a sense, he is making the case that the Judaeans were generally seen as a dark skinned (Black) population, even considering themselves as such. In my opinion about this whole thing, I really make no objection about the evidence being made about the Eunuch. I think that I could be plausible that the Eunuch was Jewish and simply making a pilgrimage to the holy land. The only thing that object and criticize is the claim being made about the Eunuch. I am willing to succeed this point if anyone of you guys are interested in putting out any evidence to the contrary. Here’s the link: teknatoutheou.home.blog/2020/10/25/the-ethiopian-eunuch-and-simon-niger-negroe-saints/To each their own. It's a racial religious website. Don't see it worth the time and energy to refute. Me? I recognize this Adamic Christian Identity is white supremacist. proofOr that was true of similar labeling not long ago. Also smacks of Yair Davidy and his ancient yte Israel. Israel Identity is/was another yte spr label not long ago. Current yte suprimos & militias dropped Israel identity as so 20th century unsuitable for the new millenium yte psyche. All of Adamic Christian Identity's art is anachronistic. There's no reason the official baptized by the Greek was not both Jewish and Sudani at the same time. If you want I'll try and start off critically examining the Greek Scripture source, Classical literature, Lower to Middle Nile history, and related stuff with help from you and the ESR membership. First thing needed? The Koine language text itself.
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Post by anansi on Nov 7, 2020 6:22:50 GMT -5
Well I'm not dismissive of local Blacks in the area, in fact they've always existed there, but I cannot ignore middle to upper Nile valley folks who were in the area since at least the time of Pepi as a matter of record, look at it this way, we accept that wte and high yella types existed in the area of Abusir, some of them basket weavers, others military auxilliries,plus trade concessions in places like Nukcratis under Amaisis,the same could be said of those military and trade types from the Nile valley.
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Post by zarahan on Nov 7, 2020 19:04:53 GMT -5
Excellent stuff posted. Takrur is right- it is a racist religious site. Author says in one post: "As many of you know and as I have endeavoured to establish throughout my writings the descendants of the biblical patriarch Adam are found only among the Caucasoid race. The black Ethiopian official in Acts is a problem for this racist for he gets a full blessing, something that should not happen with dem there evil "non Adamic" darkie races.. Moving on from this BS, author's "Judean" claim revolves around showing that the Kushite was learned in the scriptures, which makes him non-Ethiopian or Kushite. But this is dubious, for the long centuries of interchange flowing between Egypt/Nubia and Palestine allow plenty of scope for men so learned to appear. In fact credible studies show that between 586BC and 1st century AD there was a huge increase in the number of people who CONVERTED TO Judaism, creating a pool of people like the Ethiopian eunuch who would be quite familiar with the Hebrew scriptures. QUOTE: Conversion to Judaism in Classical Antiquity Louis H. Feldman - Yeshiva University
Abstract "This paper analyzes the evidence for the tremendous increase in the number of Jews between 586 b.c.b. and the first century c.E. While it finds no conclusive evidence for actual proselytizing, since we have no missionary tracts and know of no missionaries, it concludes that it is most likely that this increase, both in the Land of Israel and in the Diaspora, was occasioned by voluntary conversion to Judaism. The major evidence for this increase is to be found in Josephus, whose reliability in this matter, especially in the figure that he gives for the number of Jews who came to Jerusalem for Pass over in the year 66, is defended by the author. Evidence for the eagerness to accept proselytes may be found in the character of Abraham as depicted in midrashic litera ture, as well as in Philo, especially in his account of the translation of the Pentateuch into Greek, in the New Testament, and in various Greek and Roman non-Jewish writers, notably Strabo, Horace, Seneca, Juvenal, and Tacitus. People were attracted to Judaism for various reasons, especially economic advantages; women, in particular, were attracted." --Louis H. Feldman. Conversion to Judaism in Classical Antiquity. Hebrew Union College Annual Vol. 74 (2003), pp. 115-156 www.jstor.org/stable/23509246?seq=1A Jewish web source notes that there were many additions to the Isarelites over the centuries\ beginning with the "mixed multitude" that migrated from the land of Egypt with Moses. If the Hebrews were a branch of the Hyskos, then the Hyskos moving out of Egypt into Palestine with local allies, which included some Nubians, would be nothing special or new. QUOTE: "Earliest Form of “Conversion” was Assimilation While there were no “conversions,” many non-Israelites joined the Israelite community, often through marriage or acceptance of the beliefs and practices of the community. In this sense, assimilation is the earliest form of conversion. Abraham and his descendants absorbed many pagans and servants into their group, greatly increasing the size of the Israelite people. After their journey into Egypt, their Exodus with the “mixed multitude” [non-Israelites who joined the nation as it left Egypt], and the receiving of the Torah on Mount Sinai, the Israelites returned to the land of Israel. Once again, they increased their numbers from among non-Israelite peoples, both those who lived in Canaan (such as the Hittites, Hivvites, Girgashites, Amorites, Perizzites, Jebusites, and others) and those who entered the land."www.myjewishlearning.com/article/conversion-history-ancient-period/In any event, the case is covered from 3 ends: 1) African genotype or phenotype in the region in place for centuries per Takruri's analysis above 2) A Black Judean, with said blacks not rare at all, and he might well have been a convert 3) A Kushite convert travelling from the Sudan, not at all surprising either given Egypt/Nubia's long connections with Palestine (the Rescue of Jerusalem for example). Kushite interchange with the Hebrews could easily bring forward converts familiar with Hebrew/Judaic culture I would have to agree with Anansi and lean towards the third scenario as most plausible, as far as a direct connection to the Hebrew learning. The Ethiopian in Acts is an eager, earnest seeker. It is he who invites Phillip to join him in dialog in his chariot, which is exactly what an earnest convert looking to build his knowledge would do. But in all the scenarios, the black is in place, and can't be whitewashed away. So much for so-called "Adamic identity".. egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/post/18584Tu EDIT: Recent Aubin follow up journals.library.ualberta.ca/jhs/index.php/jhs/article/view/29552/21565
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Nov 7, 2020 23:40:11 GMT -5
Well I'm not dismissive of local Blacks in the area, in fact they've always existed there, but I cannot ignore middle to upper Nile valley folks who were in the area since at least the time of Pepi as a matter of record, look at it this way, we accept that wte and high yella types existed in the area of Abusir, some of them basket weavers, others military auxilliries,plus trade concessions in places like Nukcratis under Amaisis,the same could be said of those military and trade types from the Nile valley. Just junked a several paragraph reply. Ya know, there are just too many books, some 20 years old, detailing all that stuff much more in depth and context than Schuenemann's Abusir el Meleq report and the sparsely researched rebuttals of it. Your research has gone places I never dreamed of and taught me a lot but I draw the line at pure speculation. Doesn't mean anyone else has to but I want to feel as free to express my opinion as any Afrocentric is. Point blank, no evidence exists that Keshli Egyptian billets in Israel fathered the Hebrew rulers, leaders, and people of Lachish. A natural cline makes Israel similar to northern folk and Judah similar to southern peoples.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Nov 8, 2020 0:25:07 GMT -5
Excellent stuff posted. Takrur is right- it is a racist religious site. Author says in one post: "As many of you know and as I have endeavoured to establish throughout my writings the descendants of the biblical patriarch Adam are found only among the Caucasoid race. The black Ethiopian official in Acts is a problem for this racist for he gets a full blessing, something that should not happen with dem there evil "non Adamic" darkie races.. Moving on from this BS, author's "Judean" claim revolves around showing that the Kushite was learned in the scriptures, which makes him non-Ethiopian or Kushite. But this is dubious, for the long centuries of interchange flowing between Egypt/Nubia and Palestine allow plenty of scope for men so learned to appear. In fact credible studies show that between 586BC and 1st century AD there was a huge increase in the number of people who CONVERTED TO Judaism, creating a pool of people like the Ethiopian eunuch who would be quite familiar with the Hebrew scriptures. QUOTE: Conversion to Judaism in Classical Antiquity Louis H. Feldman - Yeshiva University
Abstract "This paper analyzes the evidence for the tremendous increase in the number of Jews between 586 b.c.b. and the first century c.E. While it finds no conclusive evidence for actual proselytizing, since we have no missionary tracts and know of no missionaries, it concludes that it is most likely that this increase, both in the Land of Israel and in the Diaspora, was occasioned by voluntary conversion to Judaism. The major evidence for this increase is to be found in Josephus, whose reliability in this matter, especially in the figure that he gives for the number of Jews who came to Jerusalem for Pass over in the year 66, is defended by the author. Evidence for the eagerness to accept proselytes may be found in the character of Abraham as depicted in midrashic litera ture, as well as in Philo, especially in his account of the translation of the Pentateuch into Greek, in the New Testament, and in various Greek and Roman non-Jewish writers, notably Strabo, Horace, Seneca, Juvenal, and Tacitus. People were attracted to Judaism for various reasons, especially economic advantages; women, in particular, were attracted." --Louis H. Feldman. Conversion to Judaism in Classical Antiquity. Hebrew Union College Annual Vol. 74 (2003), pp. 115-156 www.jstor.org/stable/23509246?seq=1A Jewish web source notes that there were many additions to the Isarelites over the centuries\ beginning with the "mixed multitude" that migrated from the land of Egypt with Moses. If the Hebrews were a branch of the Hyskos, then the Hyskos moving out of Egypt into Palestine with local allies, which included some Nubians, would be nothing special or new. QUOTE: "Earliest Form of “Conversion” was Assimilation While there were no “conversions,” many non-Israelites joined the Israelite community, often through marriage or acceptance of the beliefs and practices of the community. In this sense, assimilation is the earliest form of conversion. Abraham and his descendants absorbed many pagans and servants into their group, greatly increasing the size of the Israelite people. After their journey into Egypt, their Exodus with the “mixed multitude” [non-Israelites who joined the nation as it left Egypt], and the receiving of the Torah on Mount Sinai, the Israelites returned to the land of Israel. Once again, they increased their numbers from among non-Israelite peoples, both those who lived in Canaan (such as the Hittites, Hivvites, Girgashites, Amorites, Perizzites, Jebusites, and others) and those who entered the land."www.myjewishlearning.com/article/conversion-history-ancient-period/In any event, the case is covered from 3 ends: 1) African genotype or phenotype in the region in place for centuries per Takruri's analysis above 2) A Black Judean, with said blacks not rare at all, and he might well have been a convert 3) A Kushite convert travelling from the Sudan, not at all surprising either given Egypt/Nubia's long connections with Palestine (the Rescue of Jerusalem for example). Kushite interchange with the Hebrews could easily bring forward converts familiar with Hebrew/Judaic culture I would have to agree with Anansi and lean towards the third scenario as most plausible, as far as a direct connection to the Hebrew learning. The Ethiopian in Acts is an eager, earnest seeker. It is he who invites Phillip to join him in dialog in his chariot, which is exactly what an earnest convert looking to build his knowledge would do. But in all the scenarios, the black is in place, and can't be whitewashed away. So much for so-called "Adamic identity".. Ah. But what know you about Elephantine and Jews? Heard of the rivalry between Khnum and Yahu cults that led to the Jewish temple's destruction there? No problem Jews traveling to Rome and its west and north that era but to Sudan from Elephantine must of been some kind of impossibility despite all the merchandise traded down river no way Jews traveled up river, like even cattlemen did. Odd. Instead of primary documents, at least readily available in English translation, what's posted here are modern books and surface hypotheses. Where is the text from the Hebrews themselves on Sennacherib and Judah? The AEL account of Piye's protege Tirhaqah in the Levant? The Assyrian's ledger? Still out on call, the Greek scriptural account of the Ethiopian Eunuch? Drawing conclusions without analyzing that trio is premature. Feldman is a good source though his point is missed. A convert is a Jew as much as the minimal 'core Jews' assumed to be 'THE Jews' who since diaspora are of low census. Dio Cassius mentions how much so contemporaneous converts out number the 1000 years multi-generationals whose lit claims they went up out from Egypt with an Arab Horde (ereb rab/mixed multitude) who though no Children of Israel nonetheless became a part of the People of Israel. Which rabbis of the Mishnah trace back to Hebrew Israel and Judah (both of which were admixed) and which are recent converts? Do you know two of the greatest were descended from Sennacherib? I find the concept Black Judaean anachronistic and racialist. Why don't you speak of all Judaeans in colour terms? Why a capital B in black? You know something about a black community in Judaea? Don't invent one. Can't American ghettoize biblical Jewish history by inventing a black minority in juxtaposition to a dialectic White Judaean or Person of Colour Judaean. Sh*hhor 'aniy w*na'wa! The fact of West African exemplified genomes in Hebrews and it being older than in other peoples of Levantine antecedents has nothing to do with the Ethiopian eunuch. It's not my analysis. Price and Moorjani did that. It was brought up regarding Lachish indigenous population. Nor should one go assume because a W Afr genome was there it was the entire Hebrew genome. That's BHI stuff not science. Frankly this conversion talk is revolting. Who converted them and when? Everyone knows the SE Euro converts by Persian Jews simply as Jews. Yet these convert's offspring are considered just Jews and you never called them White Jews or even acknowledged their provable conversion. R' Y*hudah haLewi, a Sephardi Tahor, wrote about it 900 years ago in his book haKuzari. In Hokhmath Yisra'el Messora Qaballa (the received tradition of national Judaism) a born Jew's father determines their tribe but only if the mother is of Jewish descent. , מֵעֵבֶר,לְנַהֲרֵי-כוּשׁ--עֲתָרַי From beyond the Rivers of Kush -- My supplicants , בַּת-פּוּצַי My daughter in Diaspora . יוֹבִלוּן, מִנְחָתִיshall they bring, as My portion. The Book of Zephaniah 3:10 by the prophet צְפַנְיָה בֶּן-כּוּשִׁי __Ss*phan*yah ben-Kushi__ From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia shall they bring My suppliants, even the daughter of My dispersed, as Mine offering.Who dares dispute an Ethiopian's maternal Jewish links? They whom the primary document author, himself Hebrew, calls his deity's very own daughter ie the Jewish mother? From Cabo Verde to Manipur and from the Waters of Merom to Zimbabwe & Madagascar =-= Y'all call me when you ready to get serious and break out the Greek and its translation for examination and analysis, no Cliff Notes.
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Post by zarahan on Nov 10, 2020 0:25:34 GMT -5
Ah. But what know you about Elephantine and Jews? Heard of the rivalry between Khnum and Yahu cults that led to the Jewish temple's destruction there?
Haven't heard of rivalry between Khnum and Yahu cults. Expand that more. How do they tie into Anansi's note about some Judeans being black?
No problem Jews traveling to Rome and its west and north that era but to Sudan from Elephantine must of been some kind of impossibility despite all the merchandise traded down river no way Jews traveled up river, like even cattlemen did.
Indeed. Which is why its said up above -quote- "Egypt/Nubia's long connections with Palestine (the Rescue of Jerusalem for example)" is mentioned. With that kind of long interchange, people who seem to find movement between Sudan - Elephantine-Palestine to be some sort of anomaly are just blowing smoke or plain out of it.
Where is the text from the Hebrews themselves on Sennacherib and Judah? The AEL account of Piye's protege Tirhaqah in the Levant? The Assyrian's ledger? Still out on call, the Greek scriptural account of the Ethiopian Eunuch?
The old Hebrew writings in Isaiah mention Sennacherib's seige as does Aubin referenced. The account of the Ethiopian Eunuch appears in some of the earliest Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. The incident was very recent- within a few decades of the death of Christ. It is not something tacked on later. The Cushites were there at the beginning. Other ancient Hebrew writings would no doubt also mention Sennacherib.
A convert is a Jew as much as the minimal 'core Jews' assumed to be 'THE Jews' who since diaspora are of low census. Dio Cassius mentions how much so contemporaneous converts out number the 1000 years multi-generationals whose lit claims they went up out from Egypt with an Arab Horde (ereb rab/mixed multitude) who though no Children of Israel nonetheless became a part of the People of Israel.
Agreed. My point in bringing up the converts is to show that "black" Jews can appear from that outlet of the pipeline too, and are not some kind of strange anomaly. The other taps on the pipeline would of course be the indigenous folk in place, as in the 3 possible scenarios.
Which rabbis of the Mishnah trace back to Hebrew Israel and Judah (both of which were admixed) and which are recent converts? Do you know two of the greatest were descended from Sennacherib?
Expand more on this. If they were admixed, this shows the long-standing interchange mentioned above. But why admixed? Admixed with who?
I find the concept Black Judaean anachronistic and racialist. Why don't you speak of all Judaeans in colour terms? Why a capital B in black? You know something about a black community in Judaea? Don't invent one. Can't American ghettoize biblical Jewish history by inventing a black minority in juxtaposition to a dialectic White Judaean or Person of Colour Judaean. Sh*hhor 'aniy w*na'wa!
Agreed. I think Anansi only uses the term to highlight the African elements long in place in Judea. People could run into the same American ghettoization by calling them "mixed-" which has shades of the American racial categorizing, and racial pigeonholes. They are doing the same thing with Kemet, trying to impose "mixed" models so as to downplay the indigenous character of the people.
Frankly this conversion talk is revolting. Who converted them and when? Everyone knows the SE Euro converts by Persian Jews simply as Jews. Yet these convert's offspring are considered just Jews and you never called them White Jews or even acknowledged their provable conversion.
Conversion is a legitimate process for non-Jews to come to that faith, as many in America have. I heartily agree that when so-called "gatekeepers" start trying to impose racial categories and pigeonholes on the process, then there is a problem. Too often it is European Jews doing this.
The Book of Zephaniah 3:10 by the prophet צְפַנְיָה בֶּן-כּוּשִׁי __Ss*phan*yah ben-Kushi__
From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia shall they bring My suppliants, even the daughter of My dispersed, as Mine offering.
Who dares dispute an Ethiopian's maternal Jewish links? They whom the primary document author, himself Hebrew, calls his deity's very own daughter ie the Jewish mother?
Agreed.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Nov 11, 2020 17:59:43 GMT -5
I have a several paragraph set of replies I'm not gonna post.
<<Wha? Tu ain't gonna split hairs over nothing this time?>>
After examining the Koine Greek primary text with critical translation plus historic Kush, under the Kandake Meroitic queens, lacking castratos anywhere in society from top to bottom, I conclude it's not worth the time trying to pin an ethnic identity onto an apparently imaginary character the writer hasn't detailed enough for our ethnographic studies in 2020, which was not his intent.
For believers professing Christianity Within 200 years of writing down of the text three early Christian Fathers were divided 2 to 1 on the Aithiopian Eunuch's ethnicity. Racial overtones bloomed from the one to the many from the 3rd century forward.
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Post by zarahan on Nov 13, 2020 0:51:48 GMT -5
Well the earliest preserved writings are the most reliable or true link to the originals. The earliest fragments of the incident mention the Candace, a quite specific title, which right away tells us that the Kushite was from Meroe/Sudan, a good ethnicity indicator, and was not A-rab, Syrian, Judean etc etc. If folk are coming along 300 years later and arguing for a theory not keeping with the earliest writings- such as trying to make the Kushite out to be something else, then the later theories are suspect.
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Post by anansi on Nov 13, 2020 7:18:34 GMT -5
Got a general question, does P3nahs = Pheneas = down south ethnics , of the middle Nile to upper Nile, cause here is why I'm asking, a Pheneas was a high priest of Israel per Biblical tradition, ( not saying this is backed up by historical facts or what Hebrew sources had to say about it if anything.)
And 2nd, we did have a Nahasu ruler in the delta as part Hyksos occupation which could've included proto Hebrews..so it would mean specific Nahasu were highly pleaced, if the above names hold up to mean broadly Sudani folks.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Nov 13, 2020 10:05:05 GMT -5
Well the earliest preserved writings are the most reliable or true link to the originals. The earliest fragments of the incident mention the Candace, a quite specific title, which right away tells us that the Kushite was from Meroe/Sudan, a good ethnicity indicator, and was not A-rab, Syrian, Judean etc etc. If folk are coming along 300 years later and arguing for a theory not keeping with the earliest writings- such as trying to make the Kushite out to be something else, then the later theories are suspect. Tell me if I miss what's supposed to be going on here. The OP question cannot be answered because no such person. Is this thread about the text's Sudani ID of the eunuch being either one of these three possibilities ethnic Sudani, national Kushite, or phenotypic black man? If so I'm probably out the loop. Before realizing I'm about something other than that i wrote the below for whatever it's worth as sidebar. =-= So let's see Jews of Yemen are A-rab Jews of Syria are Syrian but a Jew of Sudan is only Sudani not a Jew right? Who is making a Sudanese Jew out to be something else other than what the two earliest Christian commentators on him made this fictional non-existent character out to be? BTW their account 2nd & 3rd century is older than the earliest fragment of the incident 4th or 5th century by which time the guy's ethnic identity became moot or debatable and ideas of black race over Jewish ethnicity begin. I'm tired of pulling the ancient research. Name and bring me the conclusion of those authors and move beyond presenting readers with assumptions. While you're at it show me castratianywhere in Meroe, I've come across none. Although no critical continuity for Philip's unnamed Aithiopian eunuch up to Ethiopian Orthodox Christianity, what does that church who does name him say about his ethnicity? I once owned a Torah commentary by the Chief Rabbi of Sudan who's son spoke at the S&P esnoga in NYC. Can't remember if anything So probably not. about ancient Sudani Jews was in it.
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Nov 13, 2020 11:53:20 GMT -5
Jess fo fun a 1/2 Toshabi take on a Ruski take of The Daughter of My Diaspora beyond the Rivers of Kush i.e., Diasporan Jewish Community in this case beyond Atbara
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