Post by imhotep06 on Jun 14, 2010 14:28:57 GMT -5
ZARAHAN
None of the above will be accomplished by a name change,
ASAR
Who said it would? If you read the article you’d know that I only propose this as a first step in a process of unification. This implies, obviously, that there are other things needed for this unification to happen. As I quoted in the article from Sandra Van Dyk (Conyers 2003:183):
Power is often expressed in language before it is expressed in politics. When new language and ways of expression gain currency, power relationships can ultimately change; hence the ongoing turmoil over political correctness of language and discourse in contemporary society.
This is sociology 101.
ZARAHAN
a regime based on real "truth, righteousness and justice" has never been accomplished anywhere, at any time in human history. Oh, various peoples and names CLAIM and ASSERT that it is so, but assertion is NOT reality.
ASAR
Again, who said there was? It’s an ideal. Ideal gives us the guidance and groundwork for building the future (As Dr. Wade Nobles often stresses). If you don’t have the ideal, what are you building for? What is the goal of EVER coming together? On a micro or macro scale? Just because all marriages aren’t perfect, does that mean you don’t get married? Is working for and striving for the ideal marriage, family and community not worth undertaking? If not, then what’s the purpose of social organization? Because there stop signs doesn’t mean everyone will stop. The IDEAL is that EVERYONE stops at stop signs. But everyone doesn’t. We create rules in the spirit of getting closer to the ideal (stop sign - everyone safe and no one dies as a result of car crashes by running the stop sign). These same principles that govern any society on the face of the earth, the ideals, is what’s needed for a United States of Africa, or Federation of Super States as proposed by the link I provided in the article at www.africa2030.com
ZARAHAN
And it is by no means clear that a federated Africa or Cya-Malela would not be dominated and manipulated in turn by the Eurasian superstate.
ASAR
It is not clear of anything in life. This would be the case if you organized your society to mimic and operate like European societies. This is what damn near all African scholars who discuss a unified Africa want to avoid. As mentioned in Black Africa, Diop is strongly against recreating the same mode of production and capitalist system that creates the need and rise of a bourgeois class. Also he (and countless others) are about building up our own industries so we are not dependent on foreign companies and governments, so this thing, like you see in South Africa, doesn’t plague the continent itself. Again, there is a lot more to this discussion and this was mentioned in the paper.
ZARAHAN
There are much more important things to be done first than a name change if confidence is to be built.
ASAR
Again, I refer you to the quote above and all of the links I have provided on this forum (and in the article) that proves you wrong here.
ZARAHAN
Dubious. You dont need a cross-continental collectivist mindset to build strong armies, strong economies or a vibrant cultural mix. European countries like Britain did not need this, nor did Germany, nor did the Scndanavian countries to a lesser extent. Nor did Spain or Portugal during the age of Exploration.
ASAR
You must not know that much about history. No disrespect, but every last one of these countries named (and I include Greece and Rome) recruited (either by force or alliance) troops from around their colonies. Their economies were based in making the territories mimic the culture of the host nation. Why do you think all those missionaries were sent into Africa? I don’t think this is an area you have studied much. If you understand this basic history, you’d see how your statements are utterly wrong. Me being born and raised in the United States, knowing my history and the enculturation they did to the Africans and Native Americans to ensure the cohesiveness of the state, also demonstrates how false this statement is. You can’t have a strong state if your people don’t feel they have a stake in the state and they see each others as contributing members of the state. When this doesn’t happen, you get Rwanda in the 90’s; you get the Biafra wars in Nigeria; you get the Civil War in the United States. Again, this is sociology 101.
ZARAHAN
On of the things that has held African power back is socialism, the dead hand of governments stifling innovation, stifling growth, and stifling wealth as more government bureaucrats and politicans are given more power over the society. Tanzania tried collectivism with its "ujamma" phase and failed miserably on several counts, especially hurting the vital agriculture sector, and impovershing its people.
ASAR
This is more complicated that what appears on the surface and is too great to address here. By this same token, we could say that Capitalism has failed miserably in the United States and elsewhere and why you have so many people advocating abandoning capitalism altogether. Again, read the works from Diop and Fu-Kiau (Mbongi) for alternative governmental systems and modes of production. You’re basing your ideas on the IDEAL of capitalism, not on the reality of its failures and the failures of those who try to emulate the system.