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Post by truthteacher2007 on Jul 4, 2010 2:15:45 GMT -5
And Rome and others did not worship Kemitian gods? there was no Isis temples in Greece and Rome Jeri you know very well what`s before your eyes so I am not even trying to convince you just laying it out there.. Now I am more familiar with Christian traditions and imagery than I am with Islamic ..but not completely ignorant of it and I know the Kemetian positions for prayers and garments that resemble or give impetus to Islamic form but you know what?? you could just as easily provided that. My position is that peoples of the book like run rough shod over so-called pagans even killing them while at the same time appropriating their text,image and yes architecture. And Btw the Gothic style is rendered abstract but give the same idea but off-course you know that..so stop playing. Where did I say they did not worship Egyptian Gods, the fact of the matter is Architecture developed thousands of years before a religion called Christianity came upon the scene. Christ dates to the 1st century A.D, by this time people were able to Stone Mason great buildings. The fact is that the Romans converted they turned so called Pagan structures into Sacred structures. Now Im not saying some did not go over board..Like the Petra Cathedra or the Baldachinno etc. But the fact is that the people did not see Gothic Arch. as Egyptian. It rather different than Egyptian if you ask me and it should give credit to where credit is due. As far as your little knowledge on Egyptian influence on Islam, if that is the case stop beating around the bush and label this thread Pagan Egyptian influences on Christianity(Be a Real Arab Apologist, stop trying to smoke screen you Apologetics), stop pretending you are not being selective by saying "Abrahamic Faiths." Also why should I post the info on Islam, it easy to find in Islamic history and Islamic Arch. but its O.K becuase Islam is a Peaceful Black Man's religion while Christianity is European..  Also it was not until Pagans began to convert to Christianity that Christians persecuted Pagans. The 1st-3rd century Church was Tormented, Fed to Lions, and persecuted for their beliefs BY PAGANS. But I guess you forgot that too huh, Christianity is against Shedding innocent blood, hence the absolute persecution and little revolt in the Early Church. The Muslims however had no problem killing the Infidels but Islam is a Black Man's religion (The Problem is you New Agers only have a problem with christianity and Christ, you have no problem with Islam, they can behead as many infidels as they want but let a Christian do something and you New Agers will shout, hoop and holler. In truth you New Agers want to force Christians to worship Egyptians Gods, and Admit that Jesus never existed or He is Horus...this is your Goal so stop smoke screening...You don't care about Islam becuase in your eyes Islam is a legit relgion while Christanity is a Evil European one that stole from Egypt...So please stop B.Sing I know you New Age Islam Arab Apologists like a Fly on Dooky, you cant fool anyone, certainly not me..so Come out with your Apologetics stop Smoke Screening.) Like I said every Religious building came from Pagan influences be it a Mosque, Church, Temple..etc. The Difference is that the Bible says God dwells within us not Temples made with hands. And I thought I had a chip on my shoulder. |
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Post by anansi on Jul 4, 2010 3:40:00 GMT -5
Jeri for me Islam is no more a Blackman's religion than any other..Blacks participated in the development of all three Abrahamic faiths. collectively called people of the book now the people of the book recognize each other even if somewhat grudgingly. But they stop short of recognizing the Nile Valley religious connection and labeled them "pagans" despite knowingly taking their text, concepts and imageries and adding it to their own. Jeri I know this is an emotional subject for you but... go over the video lectures again look at what's carved in stone. The problem is not with those who are being labeled it is those doing the labeling for if they called those who they took a lot of their concepts from and called them pagans how are they gonna react when the truth is steering them in the face?? like Truth teacher said above they freak the hell out!! One possible way out of this is for people of the book to stop branding others and look at your own version of faith as having much deeper roots than is currently thought. Amen..Imn..  |
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Post by truthteacher2007 on Jul 4, 2010 13:41:43 GMT -5
Jeri for me Islam is no more a Blackman's religion than any other..Blacks participated in the development of all three Abrahamic faiths. collectively called people of the book now the people of the book recognize each other even if somewhat grudgingly. But they stop short of recognizing the Nile Valley religious connection and labeled them "pagans" despite knowingly taking their text, concepts and imageries and adding it to their own. Jeri I know this is an emotional subject for you but... go over the video lectures again look at what's carved in stone. The problem is not with those who are being labeled it is those doing the labeling for if they called those who they took a lot of their concepts from and called them pagans how are they gonna react when the truth is steering them in the face?? like Truth teacher said above they freak the hell out!! One possible way out of this is for people of the book to stop branding others and look at your own version of faith as having much deeper roots than is currently thought. Amen..Imn.. And its this type of prejudice why I find many Christians have such a hard time comeing to terms with these facts. I haven't experienced this from Jews or Muslims, but with Christians, particularly evengelicals, oh yeah, big time. Its the arrogance that they alone are the originators of something original and therefore, they hold the infalibale truth that's problematic. While Islam also has this attitude, they acknowledge that there were revelations before them and that they are just the last in a long line. Many Christians on the other hand have the attitude that they are the be all end all, so when they encounter basic Bible stories in Egypt, thousands of years Older than what is recorded in the Bible, they don't know how to handle it. However, none of this stuff is new information. I wouldn't have chosen to use the video clips of the gentleman you chose, because I find with a lot of Afrocentrics, they start off with good knowledge and information, then start drifting to the edge of the road till you're all up in the woods. Any time I keep hearing terms like, "this is what WE built", "Our ancestors", I feel we're on a slippery slope. And when you get to the point where you're taking groups of Afro Americans to Egypt to run up in some temple and have some cerimony where you give them plastic collars and new names..... well.... Regardless though, he was pointing out some facts that many of the concepts we assume are hallmarks of Christianity actually have their roots deep in the past in the practices of Egypt. However, all you have to do is watch a documentary like Christianity the first 1000years or Egypt land of the Gods to see these things. Scholars have always known of these things, its not new information. For example, its common knowledge that Rome was home to many Eastrn religious sects, not only from Egypt, but from Persia as well. The cut of Mithras was very popular. If you look at the practice, initiates were washed in the blood of the bull to be rebron and cleansed of sin. Its a very close parallel to the concept of christ shedding his blood to cleanse the sinners. Its no secrate that the church folded in many of these concepts and practices because they were compeating with these other cults for converts, so everywhere the church went, we see it picking up these elements. Ever ask what the hell does Jesus's resurection have to do with rabbits and eggs? Or what his birth has to do with bringing a tree in your house and decking it with lights? Where did all this come from? |
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jari
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Post by jari on Jul 4, 2010 19:45:32 GMT -5
As a matter of fact go to Sudan or Arabia and set up a Temple with Aten images in it and tell Muslims that is the origin of Allah and Islam comes from Egypt, Im sure they will accept it as Truth and Akenaton as a Prophet...Post some pics of the results.. I'm relating what many Muslims in Egypt, some of them Azhar students have communicated to me. At no point did I say they believe ISlam originated in Egypt. I just pointed out a world view that Islam is not seen as something new to them. Islam is a way of life based on the recognition of and submission to the one God. Therefore, to them all the prophets of the Old Testament were Muslims and so was anyone who preached the submission to the one God. Its just that they see Prophet Mohamed and the revelation of the Koran as the perfection of the religion. So yes, there are many Muslims who do regard Akhnaton as a prophet because he did preach the belief that there was only one God, but do they believe that it was the perfection of faith, no. They regard it as an archaic precusor to what would come later. In the Koran it says that God sent prophets to the entire world, but Mohamed was sent to the Arabs so that they too could have a prohet. Therefore, it would not come as a shock to many Muslims to find aspects of Islam in Ancient Egypt. It is still pointed out to me every time I go there that Muslims still finish their prayers by sayinf Ameen = Amen = the supreme God. In their view all the world worshiped the true God but over time the religions became corrupted. This is how many of them feel about the Anceint Egyptian religion. The fact is that all three religions have aspects that are paralleled in Anceint Egyptian practices. How one interprits the meaning of these facts depends on their world view. I know many Christians who upon going to Egypt and visiting the temples freak the heel out because of all the similarities they see, they don't know how to reconcile it with their world view. For Muslims that I have met, they don't struggle with these things, but see it as proof that God's laws were always here, but as the scriptures explain, the message over time always became corrupted and that is why God had to send new prophets. Christianity in their view is the perfect example. They believe that Jesus was a prophet who came to reform the distortions of the faith being practiced by the Jews of his time. They belioeve he received his revelations from God like all prophets, yet after his death, his message became distorted, corrupted, mistranslated and adulterated by incorrect teachings and practices, such as making statues and images of the saints and prophets and lastly the idea that Jesus was not just a prophet but actually God in the flesh. In their view, the Koran and the prophet Mohamed were sent down to purify the worship of the one true God and to make things clear once and for all. It is believed that Islam is the highest version of the right worship and that from here on there will be no more prophets, only the day of judgement. So no, Muslims in Sudan, nor anywhere else for that matter would freak out if the concept of aspects of Islam being found in Ancient Egyptian religion. If they can wrap their heads around Zar and not freak out, I don't see why Aknaten would. First off I never said there were no similarities. To deny that there is an Epic of Gilgamesh, there is LAws like Hammurabi and Negative confessions that contain the Laws of God would deny the obvious. I have no problem with this at all nor have I denied such. The Bible makes it clear that at one time the whole Earth knew the LAws of God and the stories but rejected him to worship Idols. The thing I have a problem with is the non sesne New Age propaganda that has not evidence whatsoever that people like you New Agers like to promote. You put pictures of a Black Moddana, Show me where in the Bible Jesus said to worship Mary?? Show me where Mary Held Jesus like Isis and Horus? There is no connection at all with Christianity of the 1st-3rd century with Pagan Egyptian cults. No religion prior to Christ had a Crucified and ressurected savior. The Hebrew could not even READ EGYPTIAN nor the Romans So How the Hell could they Copy Egyptian Myths. As I said, you are not simply saying Islam was in Egypt, OF COURSE a Muslim would agree, What you peole do to Christianity is say that Christ was Horus, That a Worship such as the Black Modanna which has NOTHING TO DO WITH CHRIST is proof of Pagan Christianity. You say becuase certain laws are in Egypt that are in the Bible, The Biblical hebrews STOLE it. Do the Same with your Muslims Friends, Tell the Muhammed the Prophet is really a Pagan Egyptian God, Tell the Muhammed Stole the Laws and Prayer style of Islam from Egypt. Tell them the Mosque is a Pagan Stucture, Post an Article.."PAGAN ORIGINS OF THE MINIRET" and Give All the Credit of Islamic Arch. To Egypt rather than to hard working Muslim brilliance. You think you can smoke screen and act like you are fair but in all honest truth its obvious you have a problem with Christianity. So as I said Label the tread properly. |
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Post by jari on Jul 4, 2010 19:56:54 GMT -5
Jeri for me Islam is no more a Blackman's religion than any other..Blacks participated in the development of all three Abrahamic faiths. collectively called people of the book now the people of the book recognize each other even if somewhat grudgingly. But they stop short of recognizing the Nile Valley religious connection and labeled them "pagans" despite knowingly taking their text, concepts and imageries and adding it to their own. Jeri I know this is an emotional subject for you but... go over the video lectures again look at what's carved in stone. The problem is not with those who are being labeled it is those doing the labeling for if they called those who they took a lot of their concepts from and called them pagans how are they gonna react when the truth is steering them in the face?? like Truth teacher said above they freak the hell out!! One possible way out of this is for people of the book to stop branding others and look at your own version of faith as having much deeper roots than is currently thought. Amen..Imn.. I have approached this subject from both points of veiw. The fact remains that Egypt had nothing to do with Christianity other than Christ going to Egypt as a New Born, and still they stayed in the Jew quarters of the Delta. Egyptian Myths are complicated and no where is there a Crucified and ressurected Savior in Egypt or anywhere on the Earth Prior to the 1st Century. You have no clue about Egyptian Mythology and your teachers that have sold you your lies you love so much do nothing but cherry pick and distort the real Evidence "Written on the Wall". Ashra Kwesi is just as sophmoric and a Liar as that Low Life Druid Gerald Massey. All you can do is show some random pictures and make conjecture else where. Again it all goes back to the fact that at one time all Men on Earth who came from Noah ALL KNEW THE STORIES AND LAWS OF GOD..Even Egyptians. The fact that Egypt has parallels to the Bible does not "Freak Me" out it proves that beyond a doubt the bible has truth to it. What gets me is one breath you New Agers will say the Biblical flood for example was a Myth..."HOW CAN GOD FIT ALL DE ANIMALS ON A SMALL BOAT"...but say nothing when someone post something from Egypt that has a Flood Tale, or the Epic of Gligamesh. You have no problem with Egyptiand and Mesopotamians but when its in the Bible you question it. You have no problem believing Menes existed but question if Y-shuah existed. Again your agenda is not to be fair and balanced, its to push your New age propaganda, which sadly for you has no support outside of the New Age movement, even Athiests wont endorse these lies. But keep on with you bad self, pretend you care if The Bible and Christianity came from black people...You can fool some people(Like Truth Teacher) with you smoke screen. |
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Post by jari on Jul 4, 2010 20:18:52 GMT -5
And its this type of prejudice why I find many Christians have such a hard time comeing to terms with these facts. I haven't experienced this from Jews or Muslims, Again there is no facts here, only your ignorance in not knowing the Prior to the 1st century before Christ and Christianity there was no Crucified, and Ressurected savior. There is no connection between Jesus and any Pagan Mythology. You simple are Ignorant of Christianity and Ignorant of Egypt Myths but you still but the Bullsh@t.
Again I Cant see where anyone is saying Muhammed is Horus and that Muslims stole Egyptian Pagan Cults to Control the masses. So please stop trying act like Christians don't have the right to defend their faith.
Its the arrogance that they alone are the originators of something original and therefore, they hold the infalibale truth that's problematic. While Islam also has this attitude, they acknowledge that there were revelations before them and that they are just the last in a long line. Again show me where the story of Christ or a Crucified savior prior to the 1st century. Make a clip to Refute the Zeitgeist Debunked and Aharia S, New Age, and 13 Crucified Saviors Debunked Youtube clips. Unfortunatly for you Aharia and Zietgeist has already changed their positions...LOL...Isis went from being a virgin to being a "Perpetual Virgin"...LOL and they have yet to provide one shred of Evidence that backs their claims up. So please keep on with you bad self, you just don't realize how ignorant you are with no sources to back up your claims.
Like I said you people don't tell Muslims they Stole Their religion from Egypt or that Muhammed is Horus. So stop with the B.S. Go to a Muslim and tell him Muhammed is Horus from Egypt and never existed and Islam stole its prayers from Egypt. Stop being an Apologist if you wont admit you are one.
Many Christians on the other hand have the attitude that they are the be all end all, so when they encounter basic Bible stories in Egypt, thousands of years Older than what is recorded in the Bible, they don't know how to handle it. Actually alot of Christians have already Debunked the New Age propaganda with solid fact from Egypt itself, so that pretty much destoys your "THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO HANDLE IT" remark, seems to me they handled it quite well.
However, none of this stuff is new information. I wouldn't have chosen to use the video clips of the gentleman you chose, because I find with a lot of Afrocentrics, they start off with good knowledge and information, then start drifting to the edge of the road till you're all up in the woods. Any time I keep hearing terms like, "this is what WE built", "Our ancestors", I feel we're on a slippery slope. And when you get to the point where you're taking groups of Afro Americans to Egypt to run up in some temple and have some cerimony where you give them plastic collars and new names..... well.... LOL, this is what you are dealing with, an inferiority complex by people who need to feel special so what better way than to say Egyptians created the Bible and the Evil White Jews and Romans stole it. Not knowing that the so called Jews were blacks themselves and evidence exists that We are the Biblical Jews, Yet give credit to Egyptians and the New Age..
Regardless though, he was pointing out some facts that many of the concepts we assume are hallmarks of Christianity actually have their roots deep in the past in the practices of Egypt. However, all you have to do is watch a documentary like Christianity the first 1000years or Egypt land of the Gods to see these things. Scholars have always known of these things, its not new information. For example, its common knowledge that Rome was home to many Eastrn religious sects, not only from Egypt, but from Persia as well. The cut of Mithras was very popular. If you look at the practice, initiates were washed in the blood of the bull to be rebron and cleansed of sin. Its a very close parallel to the concept of christ shedding his blood to cleanse the sinners. This is what I mean about Cherry picking. First off Christ did not Wash his blood on people he was Beat, Mocked and Crucified, and Ressurected. He was also Baptized in Water, and Prophecied to his people. The Hebrews offerd up Attonements prior to Christ and Christ was nothing but a Fulfillment of this attonement. Has nothing to do with people bathing in Bull's blood. This is like saying that all of Egypts culture was stolen from Mesopotamia becuase of the similarities. Yet, you all will hoop and holler if someone said that the MEsopotamians gave Egypt its culture. Pathetic.
Its no secrate that the church folded in many of these concepts and practices because they were compeating with these other cults for converts, so everywhere the church went, we see it picking up these elements. Ever ask what the hell does Jesus's resurection have to do with rabbits and eggs? Or what his birth has to do with bringing a tree in your house and decking it with lights? Where did all this come from? Again Easter and Christmas was not part of christianity prior to the Roman Catholic Church, no one denies such paganism. You realize Christ said people would inflitrate the Church, come in his name and decieve many?? So what is the point here. Christianity had nothing to do with Egypt or any Pagan religion prior to the Roman Catholic Church, so please spare me.
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Post by anansi on Jul 4, 2010 21:57:37 GMT -5
Jeri for me Islam is no more a Blackman's religion than any other..Blacks participated in the development of all three Abrahamic faiths. collectively called people of the book now the people of the book recognize each other even if somewhat grudgingly. But they stop short of recognizing the Nile Valley religious connection and labeled them "pagans" despite knowingly taking their text, concepts and imageries and adding it to their own. Jeri I know this is an emotional subject for you but... go over the video lectures again look at what's carved in stone. The problem is not with those who are being labeled it is those doing the labeling for if they called those who they took a lot of their concepts from and called them pagans how are they gonna react when the truth is steering them in the face?? like Truth teacher said above they freak the hell out!! One possible way out of this is for people of the book to stop branding others and look at your own version of faith as having much deeper roots than is currently thought. Amen..Imn.. And its this type of prejudice why I find many Christians have such a hard time comeing to terms with these facts. I haven't experienced this from Jews or Muslims, but with Christians, particularly evengelicals, oh yeah, big time. Its the arrogance that they alone are the originators of something original and therefore, they hold the infalibale truth that's problematic. While Islam also has this attitude, they acknowledge that there were revelations before them and that they are just the last in a long line. Many Christians on the other hand have the attitude that they are the be all end all, so when they encounter basic Bible stories in Egypt, thousands of years Older than what is recorded in the Bible, they don't know how to handle it. However, none of this stuff is new information. I wouldn't have chosen to use the video clips of the gentleman you chose, because I find with a lot of Afrocentrics, they start off with good knowledge and information, then start drifting to the edge of the road till you're all up in the woods. Any time I keep hearing terms like, "this is what WE built", "Our ancestors", I feel we're on a slippery slope. And when you get to the point where you're taking groups of Afro Americans to Egypt to run up in some temple and have some cerimony where you give them plastic collars and new names..... well.... Regardless though, he was pointing out some facts that many of the concepts we assume are hallmarks of Christianity actually have their roots deep in the past in the practices of Egypt. However, all you have to do is watch a documentary like Christianity the first 1000years or Egypt land of the Gods to see these things. Scholars have always known of these things, its not new information. For example, its common knowledge that Rome was home to many Eastrn religious sects, not only from Egypt, but from Persia as well. The cut of Mithras was very popular. If you look at the practice, initiates were washed in the blood of the bull to be rebron and cleansed of sin. Its a very close parallel to the concept of christ shedding his blood to cleanse the sinners. Its no secrate that the church folded in many of these concepts and practices because they were compeating with these other cults for converts, so everywhere the church went, we see it picking up these elements. Ever ask what the hell does Jesus's resurection have to do with rabbits and eggs? Or what his birth has to do with bringing a tree in your house and decking it with lights? Where did all this come from? Well some want to connect or reconnect I have no problem with that some of us ended up in shashamane Ethiopia,others linked with Vudun of Nigeria. but practicing or rekindling some of those ancient forms of worship is not with-out it's dangers..who needs sacred prostitutes or blood sacrifices? |
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Post by anansi on Jul 4, 2010 22:27:02 GMT -5
Jeri for me Islam is no more a Blackman's religion than any other..Blacks participated in the development of all three Abrahamic faiths. collectively called people of the book now the people of the book recognize each other even if somewhat grudgingly. But they stop short of recognizing the Nile Valley religious connection and labeled them "pagans" despite knowingly taking their text, concepts and imageries and adding it to their own. Jeri I know this is an emotional subject for you but... go over the video lectures again look at what's carved in stone. The problem is not with those who are being labeled it is those doing the labeling for if they called those who they took a lot of their concepts from and called them pagans how are they gonna react when the truth is steering them in the face?? like Truth teacher said above they freak the hell out!! One possible way out of this is for people of the book to stop branding others and look at your own version of faith as having much deeper roots than is currently thought. Amen..Imn.. I have approached this subject from both points of veiw. The fact remains that Egypt had nothing to do with Christianity other than Christ going to Egypt as a New Born, and still they stayed in the Jew quarters of the Delta. Egyptian Myths are complicated and no where is there a Crucified and ressurected Savior in Egypt or anywhere on the Earth Prior to the 1st Century. You have no clue about Egyptian Mythology and your teachers that have sold you your lies you love so much do nothing but cherry pick and distort the real Evidence "Written on the Wall". Ashra Kwesi is just as sophmoric and a Liar as that Low Life Druid Gerald Massey. All you can do is show some random pictures and make conjecture else where. Again it all goes back to the fact that at one time all Men on Earth who came from Noah ALL KNEW THE STORIES AND LAWS OF GOD..Even Egyptians. The fact that Egypt has parallels to the Bible does not "Freak Me" out it proves that beyond a doubt the bible has truth to it. What gets me is one breath you New Agers will say the Biblical flood for example was a Myth..."HOW CAN GOD FIT ALL DE ANIMALS ON A SMALL BOAT"...but say nothing when someone post something from Egypt that has a Flood Tale, or the Epic of Gligamesh. You have no problem with Egyptiand and Mesopotamians but when its in the Bible you question it. You have no problem believing Menes existed but question if Y-shuah existed. Again your agenda is not to be fair and balanced, its to push your New age propaganda, which sadly for you has no support outside of the New Age movement, even Athiests wont endorse these lies. But keep on with you bad self, pretend you care if The Bible and Christianity came from black people...You can fool some people(Like Truth Teacher) with you smoke screen. Because hardly anyone believes the "The Gilgamesh epic is anything but myth..and one of the origins for the strong man of the Greeks Heracles. But the boat in Saqqara is rendered symbolically not literally. and they were not worshiping the stone carvings but what it represent symbolically like folks who kneel at the foot of a cross every day are not worshiping two pcs of wood fixed together in the shape of a T. And more than likely you grow-up in western Christian tradition which meant that you came from an organization which split from the main body 500yrs ago called the Catholic Church..now you reject the Papacy but that still do not mean that your version of faith does not originate with them |
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Post by jari on Jul 5, 2010 8:59:45 GMT -5
I have approached this subject from both points of veiw. The fact remains that Egypt had nothing to do with Christianity other than Christ going to Egypt as a New Born, and still they stayed in the Jew quarters of the Delta. Egyptian Myths are complicated and no where is there a Crucified and ressurected Savior in Egypt or anywhere on the Earth Prior to the 1st Century. You have no clue about Egyptian Mythology and your teachers that have sold you your lies you love so much do nothing but cherry pick and distort the real Evidence "Written on the Wall". Ashra Kwesi is just as sophmoric and a Liar as that Low Life Druid Gerald Massey. All you can do is show some random pictures and make conjecture else where. Again it all goes back to the fact that at one time all Men on Earth who came from Noah ALL KNEW THE STORIES AND LAWS OF GOD..Even Egyptians. The fact that Egypt has parallels to the Bible does not "Freak Me" out it proves that beyond a doubt the bible has truth to it. What gets me is one breath you New Agers will say the Biblical flood for example was a Myth..."HOW CAN GOD FIT ALL DE ANIMALS ON A SMALL BOAT"...but say nothing when someone post something from Egypt that has a Flood Tale, or the Epic of Gligamesh. You have no problem with Egyptiand and Mesopotamians but when its in the Bible you question it. You have no problem believing Menes existed but question if Y-shuah existed. Again your agenda is not to be fair and balanced, its to push your New age propaganda, which sadly for you has no support outside of the New Age movement, even Athiests wont endorse these lies. But keep on with you bad self, pretend you care if The Bible and Christianity came from black people...You can fool some people(Like Truth Teacher) with you smoke screen. Because hardly anyone believes the "The Gilgamesh epic is anything but myth..and one of the origins for the strong man of the Greeks Heracles. But the boat in Saqqara is rendered symbolically not literally. and they were not worshiping the stone carvings but what it represent symbolically like folks who kneel at the foot of a cross every day are not worshiping two pcs of wood fixed together in the shape of a T. And more than likely you grow-up in western Christian tradition which meant that you came from an organization which split from the main body 500yrs ago called the Catholic Church..now you reject the Papacy but that still do not mean that your version of faith does not originate with them My faith originates with Christ. Also I don't give a damn if pagans worship stone symbolically or literally, my problem is people(Like you) and your New Age campaign to smear the history of Christ by saying Christ was Horus, the Bible "COPIED OR STOLE" From Egypt or by connecting Roman Catholic practices with Christ who walked the earth 400 yrs before Rome converted. I have never defended Catholics or protestants, Im defending the Early Church of the 1-3rd century A.D. Stop acting like Im just rejecting the Catholics and stop acting like you are being fair. You people day in and out cherry pick little minute details from Christ's story and the stories of the Bible and demand if they are real, or try to connect them with Paganism. The Bible is 100% the most scrutinized book in history, and Jesus the most scrutinized man to walk the Earth. Like I said no one has questioned the authenticity of Gilgamesh, nor the Egyptian stories with the same ethusiastic attitude like you all do the Bible. Hell no one even once has questioned the Koran nor if Muhammed existed. Like I said you only have a problem with Christinity despite the fact that Muslims killed so called Pagans as well and forced so called Pagans to their religion. You people bend your backs to explain and boost up Islam like your pal, "TruthTeacher" with his "Islam was in Egypt" apologia. |
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Post by anansi on Jul 5, 2010 10:07:00 GMT -5
First off I said people of the book and the history of the people of the books as it is explained now !! started with Hebrews and their religion called Judaism the first people then came a splinter group called Christians and yet another group that took inspirations from both and rejected some traditions from both called Islam..what is not talked about or denied is the forth link and perhaps the oldest,all your protest about Islamic atrocities and how everyone is ganging up on Christians is just your red herring. And your rejectionist stance does not change the facts of what is etched deep in stone.
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Post by jari on Jul 5, 2010 11:28:17 GMT -5
First off I said people of the book and the history of the people of the books as it is explained now !! started with Hebrews and their religion called Judaism the first people then came a splinter group called Christians and yet another group that took inspirations from both and rejected some traditions from both called Islam..what is not talked about or denied is the forth link and perhaps the oldest,all your protest about Islamic atrocities and how everyone is ganging up on Christians is just your red herring. And your rejectionist stance does not change the facts of what is etched deep in stone. How is it a Red Herring when its the Truth? Like I said you don't post squat on Islam, becuase you have no beef with it. If you wanted to expose the supossed Egyptian origins of all 3 Abrahamic Faiths you would have posted SOMETHING even one tid bit on Islam. You are an apologist plain and simple so stop fronting like you are fair and balanced. Like I said you can not provide one Egyptian Artifact or religious text that shows a Crucified and Ressurected Savior born of a Virgin prior to Christ in the 1st century. Egypt had 3,000 years to create such a religion but failed to do so. Your teachers are about as Ignorant of Egyptian Mythology as you and the Low Life Druid Gerald Massey that distorted Egyptian Mythology to fit his agenda. What is etched in stone has nothing to do with the Early Christian Church other than lies and misrepresentations. Hell the fact that Ahra Kwesi as Truthteacher points out talks about "OUR HISTORY", "WE DID THIS" and has a bunch of African Americans who's forefathers had nothing to do with Egypt walking around a temple like a bunch of fools proves this guy is a quack. like I said A. Egypt had nothing to do with the Early Church of Christianity. and you are not here to be fair and balanced only to push your Agenda. If you can provide evidence of your claims take it here and win a cash prize: zeitgeistchallenge.com/It should be easy with "EVERYTHING WRITTEN IN STONE" |
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Post by truthteacher2007 on Jul 5, 2010 13:21:49 GMT -5
And its this type of prejudice why I find many Christians have such a hard time comeing to terms with these facts. I haven't experienced this from Jews or Muslims, Again there is no facts here, only your ignorance in not knowing the Prior to the 1st century before Christ and Christianity there was no Crucified, and Ressurected savior. There is no connection between Jesus and any Pagan Mythology. You simple are Ignorant of Christianity and Ignorant of Egypt Myths but you still but the Bullsh@t. Again I Cant see where anyone is saying Muhammed is Horus and that Muslims stole Egyptian Pagan Cults to Control the masses. So please stop trying act like Christians don't have the right to defend their faith. Its the arrogance that they alone are the originators of something original and therefore, they hold the infalibale truth that's problematic. While Islam also has this attitude, they acknowledge that there were revelations before them and that they are just the last in a long line. Again show me where the story of Christ or a Crucified savior prior to the 1st century. Make a clip to Refute the Zeitgeist Debunked and Aharia S, New Age, and 13 Crucified Saviors Debunked Youtube clips. Unfortunatly for you Aharia and Zietgeist has already changed their positions...LOL...Isis went from being a virgin to being a "Perpetual Virgin"...LOL and they have yet to provide one shred of Evidence that backs their claims up. So please keep on with you bad self, you just don't realize how ignorant you are with no sources to back up your claims. Like I said you people don't tell Muslims they Stole Their religion from Egypt or that Muhammed is Horus. So stop with the B.S. Go to a Muslim and tell him Muhammed is Horus from Egypt and never existed and Islam stole its prayers from Egypt. Stop being an Apologist if you wont admit you are one. Many Christians on the other hand have the attitude that they are the be all end all, so when they encounter basic Bible stories in Egypt, thousands of years Older than what is recorded in the Bible, they don't know how to handle it. Actually alot of Christians have already Debunked the New Age propaganda with solid fact from Egypt itself, so that pretty much destoys your "THEY DONT KNOW HOW TO HANDLE IT" remark, seems to me they handled it quite well. However, none of this stuff is new information. I wouldn't have chosen to use the video clips of the gentleman you chose, because I find with a lot of Afrocentrics, they start off with good knowledge and information, then start drifting to the edge of the road till you're all up in the woods. Any time I keep hearing terms like, "this is what WE built", "Our ancestors", I feel we're on a slippery slope. And when you get to the point where you're taking groups of Afro Americans to Egypt to run up in some temple and have some cerimony where you give them plastic collars and new names..... well.... LOL, this is what you are dealing with, an inferiority complex by people who need to feel special so what better way than to say Egyptians created the Bible and the Evil White Jews and Romans stole it. Not knowing that the so called Jews were blacks themselves and evidence exists that We are the Biblical Jews, Yet give credit to Egyptians and the New Age.. Regardless though, he was pointing out some facts that many of the concepts we assume are hallmarks of Christianity actually have their roots deep in the past in the practices of Egypt. However, all you have to do is watch a documentary like Christianity the first 1000years or Egypt land of the Gods to see these things. Scholars have always known of these things, its not new information. For example, its common knowledge that Rome was home to many Eastrn religious sects, not only from Egypt, but from Persia as well. The cut of Mithras was very popular. If you look at the practice, initiates were washed in the blood of the bull to be rebron and cleansed of sin. Its a very close parallel to the concept of christ shedding his blood to cleanse the sinners. This is what I mean about Cherry picking. First off Christ did not Wash his blood on people he was Beat, Mocked and Crucified, and Ressurected. He was also Baptized in Water, and Prophecied to his people. The Hebrews offerd up Attonements prior to Christ and Christ was nothing but a Fulfillment of this attonement. Has nothing to do with people bathing in Bull's blood. This is like saying that all of Egypts culture was stolen from Mesopotamia becuase of the similarities. Yet, you all will hoop and holler if someone said that the MEsopotamians gave Egypt its culture. Pathetic. Its no secrate that the church folded in many of these concepts and practices because they were compeating with these other cults for converts, so everywhere the church went, we see it picking up these elements. Ever ask what the hell does Jesus's resurection have to do with rabbits and eggs? Or what his birth has to do with bringing a tree in your house and decking it with lights? Where did all this come from? Again Easter and Christmas was not part of christianity prior to the Roman Catholic Church, no one denies such paganism. You realize Christ said people would inflitrate the Church, come in his name and decieve many?? So what is the point here. Christianity had nothing to do with Egypt or any Pagan religion prior to the Roman Catholic Church, so please spare me. It's dealing with irrational hotheads like this why I was reluctant to join this forum and why I tend to shun them in the first place. You just flew way the hell in from west bubba fck making all types of assumptions about people and their intention. The facts are these, there are many paralelles found not only between Christianity, especially that of Catholoacism and the Orthodox Churches and aspects of Egyptian religion, but with other Eastern cultures as well. We have versions of Christian thought today and we assume that they have come down to us intact and unchanged from year one. The reality is that there was not one christian philosophy in the early church, but several. We tend to forget that Jesus did not intend to create a new religion, but that he was a Jew, teaching in a Jewish tradition and that within Judaism itself at that time there were many different expressions, not just one. In the first century Jesus was not the only messianic figure, there were many people in Palestine at the time wandering the country who were preported to perform miracles. This si common historically documented knowledge, not New Age propaganda. I would encourage you to do some research on this period. An easy way would be to watch the series Christianity the first 1,000.00 years. Christianity evolved out of Judaism gradually. Within Christianity there was no consensus as to who Jesus was. Some regarded him as a rabbi, some a prophet. The idea that he was god in the flesh or the son of god, or that he died for the attonement of our sins, or that he was crucifed and resurected, were not universally accepted ideas amongst all Christians. It was because of these divisions that the council of nicea, (Sp?) was formed. Again, a simple study of the early history of Christianity will show this. As to the elements in the church from "pagan" origins. The cult of Mitras and its many paralells to christianity and christ are well known and documented by mainstream accademic scholars and sources. Of interest I think is that Mithras was said to have risen from the dead after 3 days. So the concept of death and resurection is not new. Osiris was killed and resurected after all wasn't he? Do some research on Mithras before you come screaming about whose been smoke screaned and who has agendas: www.near-death.com/experiences/origen048.htmlAs for claims that Jesus is Horus, I don't think anyone is claiming that. I personally do believe that Jesus was a real person. I don't dispute that, what I do question are all the things attributed to him. So from my point of view, we have a real person, who has had certain ideas imposed on him, ideas that came along long after his death and the death of people who actually knew him. Many of these ideas have parallels in other older cultures, doesn't mean that he was not a real person who existed in 1st century Palestine. The difference between you and myself is that you believe in a religion and I believe in the creator. Before there was an Egypt,or Judaism or Christianity or Islam or any other isms, there was the creator. I see religions as man made vehicles which allow people to connect to the creator and therefore, I do not place one above the other, but respect them equally. If Christianity alows you to feel connected to the higher power and gives you the tools you need to evolve, then baby whatever blows your hair back, you DO YOU BOOBOO! Now that's all the energy I feel I want to spend on this. I have no interest in going around the mulberry bush with someone too emotionally sensitive to share their opinions without getting overly emotional and attacking people's character and intentions. God is real, religion.... Wel just crack open any history book and draw your own conclusions..... |
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Post by anansi on Jul 5, 2010 22:16:16 GMT -5
First off I said people of the book and the history of the people of the books as it is explained now !! started with Hebrews and their religion called Judaism the first people then came a splinter group called Christians and yet another group that took inspirations from both and rejected some traditions from both called Islam..what is not talked about or denied is the forth link and perhaps the oldest,all your protest about Islamic atrocities and how everyone is ganging up on Christians is just your red herring. And your rejectionist stance does not change the facts of what is etched deep in stone. How is it a Red Herring when its the Truth? Like I said you don't post squat on Islam, becuase you have no beef with it. If you wanted to expose the supossed Egyptian origins of all 3 Abrahamic Faiths you would have posted SOMETHING even one tid bit on Islam. You are an apologist plain and simple so stop fronting like you are fair and balanced. Like I said you can not provide one Egyptian Artifact or religious text that shows a Crucified and Ressurected Savior born of a Virgin prior to Christ in the 1st century. Egypt had 3,000 years to create such a religion but failed to do so. Your teachers are about as Ignorant of Egyptian Mythology as you and the Low Life Druid Gerald Massey that distorted Egyptian Mythology to fit his agenda. What is etched in stone has nothing to do with the Early Christian Church other than lies and misrepresentations. Hell the fact that Ahra Kwesi as Truthteacher points out talks about "OUR HISTORY", "WE DID THIS" and has a bunch of African Americans who's forefathers had nothing to do with Egypt walking around a temple like a bunch of fools proves this guy is a quack. like I said A. Egypt had nothing to do with the Early Church of Christianity. and you are not here to be fair and balanced only to push your Agenda. If you can provide evidence of your claims take it here and win a cash prize: zeitgeistchallenge.com/It should be easy with "EVERYTHING WRITTEN IN STONE" Saw that before but we are not talking about the Zeitgeist are we Check your vids again the claims on whether Horus or Jesus was born on Dec 25th the fact is the western traditions has been celebrating Jesus birthday on the 25th. Seth did not started out as particularly evil but he was the god of chaos later to be transformed into a more sinister figure after the Hyksos a supposedly desert people who had him as their deity  Demonization Of SethThe founder of the 19th Dynasty, Ramses 1 came from a military family from Avaris with strong ties to the priesthood of Seth. Pharohs of that period such as Seti 1, Seti 2 and Setnakhte, adopted Seth as their patron god - However during the development of the early Hebrew religion by Moses, whose main enemies were Seti 2 and Setnakhte, the ancient god of the desert was conveniently demonized and converted into the Hebrew Satan, while the Pharoahs enemies the Hebrews, who at that time embraced the cult of Seth, became devil worshipers. Throughout the Torah of Moses, Satan (Seth) challenges God (Amun-Ra) to test the true loyalty of his followers The adversary Pharaohs Seti 2 and Setnakhte represented Seth (Satan), and became the kings of bondage and slavery, binding the people and keeping them captive under his power and control. the word "satan" in Hebrew originated meaning "adversary" - The pig was a sacred taboo in Seth's cult, became an unclean animal in the new Hebrew religion - Since the new Hebrew cult was closely related to the powerful cult of Amun, Egyptians became influenced by this idea, and finally accepted Seth as a symbol evil By the 22nd Dynasty, Seth was equated with his old enemy Apep his cult was was disbanded by a wave of percecution, and his images on temples were replaced with other gods, and his defeat by the sun god Horus (infant Jesus) widely celebrated. Greek Equivalent Greek Typhon Hebrew Satan Red the symbolic color of Seth and Satan www.aldokkan.com/religion/seth.htm |
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jari
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Post by jari on Jul 6, 2010 22:14:12 GMT -5
It's dealing with irrational hotheads like this why I was reluctant to join this forum and why I tend to shun them in the first place. You just flew way the hell in from west bubba fck making all types of assumptions about people and their intention.
The facts are these, there are many paralelles found not only between Christianity, especially that of Catholoacism and the Orthodox Churches and aspects of Egyptian religion, but with other Eastern cultures as well.Again Christianity in the Early Church has nothing to do with A. Egyptian Mythology. They are two different religions. One believes in a host of Gods, the other in a Man who died for peoples sins was crucified and ressurected. A. Egypt had no Virgin Birth no Ressurected Savior and no Attonement for sins by the Blood of their savior. Had you been fair and balanced you would know that the Idea that Christ was a Pagan God or that he was Horus is a totally new Modern concept. It simply did not exist during Christs time esp. prior to the Roman conversion. The JEws who shunned Christ never said the man was Horus or Fake, they tried to discredit his miracles as fake parlor tricks. We have versions of Christian thought today and we assume that they have come down to us intact and unchanged from year one. The reality is that there was not one christian philosophy in the early church, but several. We tend to forget that Jesus did not intend to create a new religion, but that he was a Jew, teaching in a Jewish tradition and that within Judaism itself at that time there were many different expressions, not just one. While there is some truth to this Jesus was not Teaching Judaism, he was fulfilling the Old Testament prophecies and starting a new covenant one that did not rely on the Temple sacrifices, he shunned the Jewish High Priests(Scribes and Pharasees) and would eventually loosen the burden of the Law while incorporating Gentiles into the religion. Christianity was a break from Judaism and the Talmud do to the fact that the Temple would shortly be destroyed and that Christ was the Fulfillment of the Prophets.
In the first century Jesus was not the only messianic figure, there were many people in Palestine at the time wandering the country who were preported to perform miracles. This si common historically documented knowledge, not New Age propaganda. I would encourage you to do some research on this period. An easy way would be to watch the series Christianity the first 1,000.00 years. Ive done the research and again there is no Man walking the Earth that Died and ressurected prior to Christ. Not Horus, Mitras..etc...NO ONE. Also the MEssiahs in Judea were Warrior maeesiahs(As the JEws thought the Messiah would destroy the Roman Empire) and Jesus was the total opposite, Imagine a man who is supposed to Destroy Rome telling you to turn the other Cheek and Pray for your enemies. Also on a side note it was these False Messiahs that gave Rome the Excuse to Sack the Temple and Destroy Judea.
Christianity evolved out of Judaism gradually. Within Christianity there was no consensus as to who Jesus was. Some regarded him as a rabbi, some a prophet. The idea that he was god in the flesh or the son of god, or that he died for the attonement of our sins, or that he was crucifed and resurected, were not universally accepted ideas amongst all Christians. It was because of these divisions that the council of nicea, (Sp?) was formed. Again, a simple study of the early history of Christianity will show this. This is False, Christ taught he was the Son of God, now there was a question on how to seperate Christ as a God from the Father(Calling him Lord instead of God) but he was seen as Divine. Other False Sects might have had these problems but they are totally irrelevent to us today. The Council of Nicea was convenned to confront the Arian contreversy. Arius was simply preaching the Earliest form of Jehovas witness, but he had no grounds to base his claims and many of his supported left him once he tried to give his doctrine. The Council of Nicea was pretty fair to Arius despite the Afrocentric mythology surrounding it. He was given the floor to speak and his rivals were given the ground to speak. Nothing was changed or added at the Council of Nicea.
As to the elements in the church from "pagan" origins. The cult of Mitras and its many paralells to christianity and christ are well known and documented by mainstream accademic scholars and sources. List them, let me guess, Freak and Gandi, D.M Merdock, Peter Joseph, If any other Im sure they are connected to these folks. They have been debunked.
Of interest I think is that Mithras was said to have risen from the dead after 3 days. This is a lie there was not Ressurected Savior prior to Christ, the Earlies was Adonis who's ressurection dates about 120 yrs after Christ. Christianity pretty much inspired a new concept, a Ressurected Savior.
So the concept of death and resurection is not new. Post a Ressurected Savior prior to Christ on this site:
zeitgeistchallenge.com/
Osiris was killed and resurected after all wasn't he? Lol, Osiris was Dismemeberd and put back together through magic and Never walked the Earth but went to the underoworld and became the God of the underworld. Jesus Died, and Rose from the Dead after 3 days on his own and overcame his persecution on his own. If this is your comparison its rather flawed, also you need to mention how the Romans or Hebrews could read Egyptian, go to the Temples in Egypt and copy the Religion of Osrius as many of these Cults were Mystery Cults.
Do some research on Mithras before you come screaming about whose been smoke screaned and who has agendas:
Do your research beyond the New age propaganda.
As for claims that Jesus is Horus, I don't think anyone is claiming that. I personally do believe that Jesus was a real person. I don't dispute that, what I do question are all the things attributed to him. So from my point of view, we have a real person, who has had certain ideas imposed on him, ideas that came along long after his death and the death of people who actually knew him. Many of these ideas have parallels in other older cultures, doesn't mean that he was not a real person who existed in 1st century Palestine. Again I don't understand this, First off if you believe that Jesus was real then explain why if Christ was simply a man, were the Romans dipping christians in Tar and lighting them on Fire and Trowing them to lions? Christ was real and so was his attributes. If Christ did not ressurect his following would have died, but he did and now look, the Romans could not stop Christianity so they infiltrated it becuase Christians were gaining.
Also your pal, Anasani, believes Christ was Horus and has tried to claim this on E.S.
Its obvious you had no idea about this. Honestly I see you are simply ignorant of the New Age propaganda, which is not your fault. I don't mean this in a bad way, Im just saying you might have heard it and never thought twice, These claims that there was a Savior who died and Ressurected prior to Christ is Fringe theory and has been debunked.
Watch this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKlWWEViURo&feature=related
Im sure its not your cup of tea so I will look for the Mithras Debunked Part.(Its a good series)
The difference between you and myself is that you believe in a religion and I believe in the creator. Before there was an Egypt,or Judaism or Christianity or Islam or any other isms, there was the creator. I see religions as man made vehicles which allow people to connect to the creator and therefore, I do not place one above the other, but respect them equally. If Christianity alows you to feel connected to the higher power and gives you the tools you need to evolve, then baby whatever blows your hair back, you DO YOU BOOBOO! I believe in a Creator, Jesus the Word of God before he became flesh created all that we see according to the will of the Father. I believe in a man who has made predictions that have all and will all come true. Christ predates Egypt, Horus, Judaism he was here in the begining along with the holy spirit and the Father. Egypt and its Myths are nothing to Christ, I don't need to sit around and pretend Im an Egyptian and walk around some old Temples to feel beter about myself. The way I see it Everyman has ruled the world at one point and time, The Black man ruled First with Egypt and Nubia, Sumeria etc. The White man is Ruling now starting with the Greeks to present day, and the Asian ruled, Arabs ruled..etc. Christ's kingdom will be established. Im not Egyptian unless someone can show evidence of Egyptians going into West Africa. I like Egypt for Egypt. Again Im not attacking your beliefs, Im simply showing you that Christianity of the 1st-3rd century wad legit. and had nothing to do with Egypt.
Now that's all the energy I feel I want to spend on this. I have no interest in going around the mulberry bush with someone too emotionally sensitive to share their opinions without getting overly emotional and attacking people's character and intentions. God is real, religion.... Wel just crack open any history book and draw your own conclusions..... Again I thought you held the same Horus=Jesus, Jesus was fake, Christianity stole from Egypt propaganda that Anasani does. IF you did not you simply caught the fire that was not directed at you, so I apologize. If you decide not to reply I will still post the clip debinking Mithras when I find it, again Im sorry I thought you held onto the veiws of Horus=Jesus B.S.
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jari
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Post by jari on Jul 6, 2010 22:24:14 GMT -5
Check your vids again the claims on whether Horus or Jesus was born on Dec 25th the fact is the western traditions has been celebrating Jesus birthday on the 25th. Again Christ did not follow Dec. 25 and it was not part of it until the Roman Catholic Church. This is a whole 400 yrs of no Christmas celebration within Christianity and had Rome not converted there would be no Dec. 25th in Christianity. This is like saying becuase Europeans made "Egyptian Revival" buildings then the Egyptians originated in Europe. Also show me in the Bible where Christ was born on Dec. 25. Christ was not born on Dec. 25 but around Harvest time so your argument is nothing but strawman as you have nothing to connect Christ with Horus. Again if you find an Egyptian Text that proves Christ was Horus post it here and win a Cash prize: zeitgeistchallenge.com/Please inform E.S and E.G.R when you do win your cash. As far as Seth goes, I don't really give a damn about Satan dude. Like I said at one point and time the whole Earth Knew the stories and Laws and True God, so the fact that Satan is in Egypt makes sense to me. This is about the validity of Christ which you have failed to disprove.
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