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Post by truth on Mar 31, 2010 12:38:47 GMT -5
During AE, race was based on apparent physiological cues; hair, skin, & eyes. Today, science's view of race is much more complex. However, race must be viewed through the eyes of AE, if we are to understand the AEian self identity and self determination. Ancient Egyptians viewed themselves differently from their southerly neighbor, Nubia.  |
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Post by Charlie Bass on Mar 31, 2010 12:40:26 GMT -5
During AE, race was based on apparent physiological cues; hair, skin, & eyes. Today, science's view of race is much more complex. However, race must be viewed through the eyes of AE, if we are to understand the AEian self identity and self determination. Ancient Egyptians viewed themselves differently from their southerly neighbor, Nubia. No, AEs didn't see race in the modern sense of how we see it, they saw ethnicity. |
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Post by truth on Mar 31, 2010 12:46:50 GMT -5
Apparently, you did not read my initial post: "However, race must be viewed through the eyes of AE, if we are to understand the AEian self identity and self determination. " I am not asking you to view Egyptian race from a modern perspective. I asked to view "race" from the AEian perspective; that is, race as it was understood by them. The murial clearly demonstrates a race conscious ancient people. No, AEs didn't see race in the modern sense of how we see it, they saw ethnicity. |
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Post by anansi on Apr 1, 2010 2:52:04 GMT -5
The Kemites were not dividing the world in races at all According to work done by AlTakruri Copy and keep these on your own harddrive where
you can reference them whenever needed.
This ts NOT the so-called races of
the world nor is it a table of nations. Its the
Herd of Ra eligible for Osirian Ressurection,
i.e., people from the AE perspective living right
next to them in the course of Sun Ra at sunrise,
noon, and sunset. The Aegeans and other north
Mediterraneans were left out. That's another
reason why it's not an attempt at anthropology
of the world but a sacred religious painting.
I prefer the word portal to gate but...you know.
BOOK OF GATES 4:5 GATE OF TEKA HRA VIGNETTE 30
as in Valley of the Kings KV11 tomb of Rameses III
 thenile.phpbb-host.com/phpbb/ftopic2315.phpThe closest thing to a race concept by the Kemites would be if one is from the Nile or not. |
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jari
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Posts: 289
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Post by jari on Apr 1, 2010 6:28:24 GMT -5
During AE, race was based on apparent physiological cues; hair, skin, & eyes. Today, science's view of race is much more complex. However, race must be viewed through the eyes of AE, if we are to understand the AEian self identity and self determination. Ancient Egyptians viewed themselves differently from their southerly neighbor, Nubia. Again you seem to not fully understand the complex aspects of the people of so called "Nubia", there are many different Neheshy tribes depicted by the Egyptians throught their Empire. |
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Post by Kalonji on Apr 1, 2010 7:02:02 GMT -5
Jari,
Can you re-post the pictures
They pretty much say it all
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Post by Charlie Bass on Apr 1, 2010 13:00:16 GMT -5
How about this: When They Were Pharaohs By T. H. LAWRENCE p.8-9   |
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Post by truth on Apr 1, 2010 13:33:08 GMT -5
The paper you provided is comical. Since when did classical writers use taxonomical terms like "Negroid?" (LOL) Racial classification of that era was quite different from how it is perceived today. How about this: When They Were Pharaohs By T. H. LAWRENCE p.8-9 |
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jari
Scribe
Posts: 289
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Post by jari on Apr 2, 2010 10:37:21 GMT -5
Jari, Can you re-post the pictures They pretty much say it all Egyptians    Puntites     Kushites   |
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Post by khunanup on Apr 2, 2010 11:19:42 GMT -5
Conventional Egyptology,from which many disagree,presents ancient Egyptians views as being slightly xenophobic against foreign peoples. They viewed foreigners as isofret(chaos) vs. Maat. However, from the records of conquest and migration the populations in the extreme north and south in ancient Egypt reflected their immediate neighboors.
Tales of Sinuhe mentions that a Delta Egyptian could not understand an Egyptian from Abu(Elephantine). This represents the linguistic diversity that existed from north to south Egypt. Linguistic diversity along the extreme borders are either indications of foreign infiltraition or local linguistic variation.
Of all the foreigners, Nubians probably shared similiar cultures and adapted the best. This is supported by mainstream Egyptologist like Yurco and Robert Morkot.
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Post by truth on Apr 2, 2010 11:54:54 GMT -5
^how did lower egyptians reflect the phoenotype of their immediate neighbors, when upper and lower egyptians had distinct features. Am I to understand that you are claiming that the Nubians resembled lower Egypt?
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Post by Kalonji on Apr 2, 2010 14:07:47 GMT -5
Yes Jari
The effectiveness of those kind of pictures when proving that they didn't distinguish between themself and southerners never fail. Notice that he doesn't know how to act, and starts talking about the phenotype of lower Egypt now.
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Post by Kalonji on Apr 2, 2010 15:44:26 GMT -5
Behold I'm going to Nuke the whole question, whether they distinguished between Nubians and themselves. The question is partial/misleading, and leaves room for doubt, since there are reasons why they didn't always depict themselves as identical as the Nubials. This here gets to the bottom, because this new question asked below will trump the cases/or at least cast severe doubt in the cases where they did depict themselves different The question is: does tanned/narrow nosed/ortochnatic ''life like'' art always equal tanned/narrow nosed/ortochnatic individual..? This Xray of the coffin answers the question.  |
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Post by sundiata on Apr 4, 2010 20:14:29 GMT -5
The paper you provided is comical. Since when did classical writers use taxonomical terms like "Negroid?" (LOL) Racial classification of that era was quite different from how it is perceived today.How about this: When They Were Pharaohs By T. H. LAWRENCE p.8-9 So says the guy who started a race thread based on a tainted reproduction of an Egyptian religious tomb scene, devoid of modern racial context. WOW... A bit hypocritical, no? In any event, for comparative purposes, many different southern ethnys were depicted by the Egyptians and they were each given names. There was no one architypal "Nubian". The people who bore the closest similarity to the Egyptians, at least per their own artistic conventions, were the Puntities (an ancient east African people in or near the horn). You can see them side by side in the tomb of Hatshepsut. |
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Post by zarahan on Apr 5, 2010 1:07:31 GMT -5
During AE, race was based on apparent physiological cues; hair, skin, & eyes. Today, science's view of race is much more complex. However, race must be viewed through the eyes of AE, if we are to understand the AEian self identity and self determination. Ancient Egyptians viewed themselves differently from their southerly neighbor, Nubia. Your premise is flawed. Of course the ancient Egyptians distinguished themselves from others. Every tribe on earth distinguishes themselves from other tribes. That is hardly news, but simply distinguishing people from a different land in terms of skin color or dress etc, does not automatically correlate with the concept of a biological "race" or subspecies as scientists do with the natural world. You need to first define what a race is and then demonstrate whether the ancients followed this definition. This you have, predictably, failed to do. You brought up the concept, so don't duck and hide now. Define "race." The ancient Romans distinguished themselves from the ancient Germans on several factors, including physical features. Is this also based on "race"? Please elucidate. Can you do it, or will you conveniently disappear as usual? While you are giving us your definition, and showing us whether the ancient Egyptians followed it, keep in mind that the people ethnically the closest to the ancient Egyptians were Nubians.   Still waiting on this definition of "race".. Also please explain why on such things as cranial features, limb proportions, dental traits and DNA the ancient Egyptians cluster closer to other Africans than to Europeans or "Middle Easterners". Here's just a sampling of one of those clusters for example- limb proportions... 
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