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Post by anansi on Sept 5, 2010 2:50:50 GMT -5
 Gebel el-Arak Knife Pre-historic Egypt, Naqada II (3500-3100 B.C.) Petrie, W.M. Flinders. The Making of Egypt, London. New York, Sheldon Press; Macmillan, pp. 65-66, 1939. Petrie famously known as "The Father of Pre-history". Chapter VII. The Dynastic Conquest Conflict of Races We now have to view as a whole the tumultuous age of dynastic invasion. For some centuries we may see large movements going on, threats from the south and east, and influences from other quarters--one of the great ages of unrest and admixture like the ages of the XIII-XVIIth or XXIIIrd-XXVth dynasties. This troubled time occupied the Semainean age. For a demonstration of the invasion by the dynastic race, one of the greatest events in the history of Egypt, we turn to a single sculpture in ivory, the knife handle from Gebel el-Arak, probably presented to some great chief. The flint blade of the knife was a fine example of parallel flaking. The ivory handle is carved in relief on both sides. On the top of the first side is shown a combat between short-haired men with bullet heads and long-haired men. The bullet heads, like the followers of Narmer, are in all cases getting the better. Both parties are unclothed, but wear a waist cord to hold up a dagger sheath. The invaders only are armed, using a truncheon. In the lower scene are two lines of ships, and drowned men lying in the sea between them. The upper line is of vessels with high prow and stern, the lower has vessels with cabins like the Egyptian. This is Egyptian history what the Bayeux tapestry is to English history, a national monument of conquest. Happily this is not the only representation of these opposing people, but they are shown also on the one painted tomb at Hierakonpolis. There are also combats of black men overcoming red men. Source of the Conquerors Adding to the history, there is on the other side of the knife handle a figure of a hero or divinity subduing two lions. Such a group is widely spread, anciently, with lions in Elam, Mesoptamia and Greece; tigers in the Harappa of India; winged bulls or horses in Assyria; ibex in Arabia and deer in Italy; wolves at Athens; swans in Greece. For various animals we see that the idea is not the restraint of violence, but the assumption of power over all Nature, however untamable. Such then is the purpose of this group, and the source of it is a cold country, for the hero has a thick coat and cap, and the lions have thick hair under the whole body as a protection in snow. It must be from mountainous Elam and not from the plains of Mesopotamia that the figures come. The two beautiful figures of dogs belong to the Babylonian myth of Etana on the flying eagle, with two dogs looking up after it. Below these are exquisitely spirited figures of animals, the connection of which we cannot realize in the broken connection. Here is an historic monument of the highest value, but badly wreaked by the Government policy of seizing discoveries. In a free system of rewards, the tomb where this lay would have comes under official care, all collateral objects would have been preserved, and every fragment of such an ivory could be recovered by sifting. But this object was never known officially till in the hands of the dealer. The ships on the ivory knife handle are distinguished by having an animal head on the prow, probably as a figurehead. These are the bull's head and the oryx head, and they possibly signify the names of the vessels. Below is the black ship at Hierakonpolis, belonging to the black men who are shown as conquering the red men; and the other ship of these conquering invaders on the knife handle, with the similar high prow and round-topped cabin. The subjects of the invasion and conquest carved on this knife handle, and depicted with such vigour . . . . serve to clear away the distorted view of supposing all the history to have been a smooth uniform development of a single people. Even the earlier settlements of this and other lands were the result of the mixture of half a dozen races fighting for supremacy.-- W.M. Flinders Petrie wysinger.homestead.com/gebelea.htmlAccording to the above this was an invasion by non Nile valley folks of probable Mesopotamian origins but who made the Knife was the invaders or the defenders if that's what it was and wouldn't that give some credence to theory of Mesopotamian influence in Kemet's dawn. And according to Petrie Below is the black ship at Hierakonpolis, belonging to the black men who are shown as conquering the red menIf the above is true then wouldn't this also explain why Kemetians might have referred to their lands as the Black-land out of defiance of the invading red men? |
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Post by clydewin98 on Sept 6, 2010 7:04:46 GMT -5
This knife is not prehistoric. The people on the knife are Gutians--not Sumerians. This dates the artifact after the Gutians may have took Lagash.  The Gutians were hill people. The knife may represent booty saved by a mercenary. |
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Post by anansi on Sept 6, 2010 7:08:52 GMT -5
This knife is not prehistoric. The people on the knife are Gutians--not Sumerians. This dates the artifact after the Gutians may have took Lagash. so the date Gebel el-Arak Knife Pre-historic Egypt, Naqada II (3500-3100 B.C.) is wrong..and if you are correct then when did the Gutians invaded Kemet? |
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Post by clydewin98 on Sept 6, 2010 7:17:51 GMT -5
  Gutian ...................................................................................... Sumerian |
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Post by anansi on Sept 6, 2010 11:45:58 GMT -5
OK!! so whoever those people are in the battle scene when did they invade Kemet if the Knife was historic..
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Post by clydewin98 on Sept 6, 2010 13:16:52 GMT -5
OK!! so whoever those people are in the battle scene when did they invade Kemet if the Knife was historic.. How do you know a battle took place in Kemet. The knife was purchased in Cairo. Gebel el-Arak Knife  If it was purchased in Cairo how can anyone be sure that it has anything to do with Egypt. The figures on the knife do not resemble ancient Egyptians. The representation is Mesopotamia. Even the warriors on the knife look Gutian. It is my opinion, and my opinion only that this knife has nothing to do with ancient Egypt. |
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Sept 6, 2010 14:07:25 GMT -5
I've had my reservations about this 'relic' myself. Basically it looks Mesopotamian but has a few Nile Valley motifs; the penis sheathes and the type of boats. I wonder about its authenticity altogether since it's unprovenienced, not found in situ, the same as the Metropolitan Museum's knife. The man between the lions seems very like something from the Gilgamesh cycle and led me to doubt the knife handle's authenticity but then the Hierkanopolis tomb 100 painting has the same motif and I think that painting is real per in situ photos by J. C. Payne in Tomb 100: The Decorated Tomb at Hierakonpolis ConfirmedThe Journal of Egyptian Archaeology Vol. 59, (Aug., 1973), pp. 31-35 . I can only find these repro murals online which I now share  And go to proteus.brown.edu/fightingpharaohs10/admin/image.html?imageid=11163788 for fuller repro |
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Post by anansi on Sept 6, 2010 19:11:18 GMT -5
I've had my reservations about this 'relic' myself. Basically it looks Mesopotamian but has a few Nile Valley motifs; the penis sheathes and the type of boats. I wonder about its authenticity altogether since it's unprovenienced, not found in situ, the same as the Metropolitan Museum's knife. The man between the lions seems very like something from the Gilgamesh cycle and led me to doubt the knife handle's authenticity but then the Hierkanopolis tomb 100 painting has the same motif and I think that painting is real per in situ photos by J. C. Payne in Tomb 100: The Decorated Tomb at Hierakonpolis ConfirmedThe Journal of Egyptian Archaeology Vol. 59, (Aug., 1973), pp. 31-35 . I can only find these repro murals online which I now share And go to proteus.brown.edu/fightingpharaohs10/admin/image.html?imageid=11163788 for fuller repro Yes I see the figure just left of the circle of goats and below the boats struggling with two animals not unlike the knife or Narmer's Palette So if ever there was a time for some sort of Mesopotamian incursion into the Nile Valley this era might have been it. However if they did invade they lost out to the Nile Valley inhabitance for it was their institution and world view that came to dominate.. |
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Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Sept 6, 2010 19:19:02 GMT -5
The thing is there's no biological evidence for Mesopotamians being
in pre-dynastic Egypt thus no invading Asiatic Dynastic Race. The twin
lion wrestling motif remains open to speculation but in specifics differ
from the serpopods of Narmer's palette. The former just looks like
submission of animals as in the Gilgamesh cycle by one hero figure
whereas the former definitely represents unification by two personages
keeping struggling entities at bay. At least that's my take on it. It's
all open to interpretation though. So what do you think?
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Post by anansi on Sept 6, 2010 19:57:48 GMT -5
The thing is there's no biological evidence for Mesopotamians being in pre-dynastic Egypt thus no invading Asiatic Dynastic Race. The twin lion wrestling motif remains open to speculation but in specifics differ from the serpopods of Narmer's palette. The former just looks like submission of animals as in the Gilgamesh cycle by one hero figure whereas the former definitely represents unification by two personages keeping struggling entities at bay. At least that's my take on it. It's all open to interpretation though. So what do you think? Just speculation no evidence either way,maybe they never had a chance to setup shop in the Nile Valley,they invaded but got taken out or sent packing back to Mesopotamia. probably a brief interlude or hiccup in Nile Valley history perhaps much shorter than the Hyksos era,but non the least live a faint hint of their presence. The Narmer palette while not quite the same evokes the same message subduing two lion like figures. |
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