Were the ancient Hebrews black?

[gigantic]

More evidence of hebrew hair:

1Cr 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for [her] hair is given her for a covering.

I won't post the entire chp. since it is not necessary. You can read it on your own. Paul makes an analogy between the face veil and a woman's natural veil, which is her hair. The moral of the story, as delivered by St. Paul, is nature teaches us that a female must be veiled; hence her natural veil --hair.

Only women with stringily to wavy-curly hair can veil their heads the natural way (with hair). Observe the following:



This is what Paul was describing when he said: "for [her] hair is given her for a covering." You cannot do this with knappy hair, as illustrated in your picture.

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

Wouldn't it be appropriate to stick to primary biblical Hebrew?
Anyway ...


The Church of Corinth were once pagan Greeks, no Jews.
Paul is inconsequential to Hebrews. If there were
such a person (oto tamiydh) we have nothing from
him written in Hebrew. Paul appealed to the non-Jews and
made up a new religion for them. Hebrew women wore real
veils woven from natural materials. To this day married
Israelite women cover their hair revealing it only when
at home among family. The brazen hussy in that pic is
not the Hebrew ideal. The Judahite women of Lachish are
properly veiled in the traditional Hebrew manner (looks
like the headcover of a Catholic nun's habit).

But if you like Christian era ideas about Hebrew hair
try this one on for size,



Now that's how how early 'white' Italian Christians
painted Jesus and his Disciples. There we can see
why Tacitus wrote down the Roman majority opinion
that Judaeans were like Ethiopians.

Tacitus, a younger contemporary of Josephus, lists
common Roman opinions on Jewish origins. He wrote
that many were assured Judahites were descendants
of Kushites (The Histories V.2).

[gigantic]

^Are you challenging the strong's as a reliable source for hebrew scholarship? YES or NO.

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

No, those are not Hebrew women. They are A3mw women
from an era before there was a Moses and Children of Israel.
Evidence of Hebrew hair must come from authentic Hebrew
sources from biblical Hebrew times.

This is the difference between discussion and debate.
Discussion presents primary evidence in support of propositions.
Debate pulls every cat out of the bag to win an argument.
One is concerned with increasing knowledge the other with sympathy.

Aug 6, 2010 17:46:33 GMT -5 gigantic said:

Hebrew women with long tresses [sear]:

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

I prefer to use Gesenius or Brown-Driver-Briggs, the academic standard
for biblical Hebrew lexicon. In any event, as shown and directly to the
point instead of distractingly tangential, the words for hair and goat's
hair are not the same words in biblical Hebrew. Totally factual.

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

Agreed on the diversity of human types populating the
Levant, a true crossroads of continents ever undergoing
change due to trade and immigration.

Aug 6, 2010 17:40:31 GMT -5 truthteacher2007 said:

Aug 6, 2010 16:50:31 GMT -5 Tukuler al~Takruri said:

Our host doesn't support full Unicode fonts so my apologies for currently posting only transliterations instead of Hebrew font.

The biblical Hebrew word for hair has one spelling and two pronunciations
se`ar
sa`ar.


The main biblical Hebrew word for goat has two spellings and one pronunciation

sa`iyr	this is the plene or full spelling with the consonant yodh
sa`ir	this is the defective or short spelling without the consonant yodh.

There are other biblical Hebrew words for goat. They are

'aqqow	wild goat
`ez	she-goat
`iziym	goat's hair
ssaphiyr	he-goat
tayish	he-goat known for butting.

The biblical Hebrew words for hair and goat are from two different roots.
The biblical Hebrew word for hair is not the same word for goat's hair.
The Israelites did not liken their hair to goat's hair hence different words for each.

The goat is not an animal of favorable metaphor in biblical Hebrew.
It's speakers never applied goat references to themselves. They
reserved it for the unsavory characters like Esau (the antithesis
of an Israelite) or the king of Greece in Daniel's novella. Satyrs
were thought of as having a goat's form and that word is spelled
exactly the same as goat in Isaiah's prophecies.


Texture description of hair is rare in biblical Hebrew literature

`*amar	wool; being like `amar meaning a heap
tal*tal	bushy; from tal meaning piled up.

Unlike examples of wishful thinking and irrelevant modern photos
[insert modern image of wavy haired RedSea Jewess later]
the above biblical hair textures are in keeping with authentic art
of the biblical era depicting Judahites conquered by Sennacherib.


Fig 1 Three "chief elders" of the Judaean city Lachish
bow before Sennacherib. From James B. Pritchard's
THE ANCIENT NEAR EAST VOL I net copyright ©1997 al~Takruri


Since Israel was composed of a core group heavily supplemented
by other peoples to their south, east, and north there was no one
hair type or phenotype applicable to all biblical era "Hebrews."

Thank you for that explanation. I totally agree with what you've had to say. I especially appreciate the end of your post. That area of the world has seen many movements of population and so there would have been a variety of physical types present in the population. Having visited that area and having a lot of contact with Palestinians, I find that this is still the case to this day.

I think it is also important to remember that thinking of one's self in terms of race was non existant back then. Black, white etc were simply adjectives of a person's actual color. The basis of their identity would have been based on nationality, geography, culture and most of all faith.

[gigantic]

Aug 6, 2010 18:31:12 GMT -5 Tukuler al~Takruri said:

The Church of Corinth were once pagan Greeks, no Jews.

The church at Corinth consisted both Jews and Greeks. Ever hear of Aquila and Proscilla?

Paul appealed to the non-Jews and
made up a new religion for them.

Apparently you are not well versed in the Pauline doctrine:

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

Hebrew women wore real veils woven from natural materials.

You missed the point of the analogy, sir. If you can't comprehend the significance behind using an analogy then I cannot help you. Paul would not waste his time using natural hair as an analogy for a veil, if the two did not have similar functions.

The brazen hussy in that pic is not the Hebrew ideal.

Why the abrasive tone?

The Judahite women of Lachish are properly veiled in the traditional Hebrew manner (looks like the headcover of a Catholic nun's habit).

Miscegenation had been committed by The jews after their return from exile, to Lachish. Your reliefs prove nothing but admixture.

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

Archaeologically authentic Judahite Hebrew men with bushy [tal*tal] wool [`*mar]

[gigantic]

Aug 6, 2010 18:50:35 GMT -5 Tukuler al~Takruri said:

I prefer to use Gesenius or Brown-Driver-Briggs, the academic standard
for biblical Hebrew lexicon.

go to the following strong's site. You will see Genesius is provided to bolster the strong's:

Sear - link

Sa'yir - link

the words for hair and goat'shair are not the same words in biblical Hebrew. Totally factual.

You are changing your initial argument, which was to challenge the claim the two share the same three stem root. No one ever said the words were the same. Go back and re-read the exchanges.

[gigantic]

Archeologically authentic hebrewess with tresses



*You are fighting a losing battle.

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

Verifiable fact, replicable and falsifiable:
Hair and goat's hair are different words
in biblical Hebrew. Biblical Hebrews never
used the word for goat's hair as the word
for the hair atop their heads. They used
words for hair that grows up, bushy and
wool.

No more back and forth. I've present
primary evidence, the only kind that
counts. I'm write not for those who go
with the last word as the right word.
I write for those whose appeal is
academic and can see through subterfuge.

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

Grasping at straws by deliberately giving false information.

The Lachish examples I presented are pre-exile Judahites.
The females you presented are A3mw before Israel existed.

This is why I need not continue. You have no authenticity
and resort to dirty tricks as a refuge from facts you find
unpleasant and don't want to face.

[gigantic]

Aug 6, 2010 19:13:00 GMT -5 Tukuler al~Takruri said:

Verifiable fact, replicable and falsifiable:
Hair and goat's hair are different words
in biblical Hebrew. Biblical Hebrews never
used the word for goat's hair as the word
for the hair atop their heads. They used
words for hair that grows up, bushy and
wool.

*Your reply is a strawman*

It was told to you that to two have a common primary root which suggests they are interrelated. You invented this idea that someone said the two words are the same. Anyhow, wool is only used as a metaphor to describe the purity of the hair.

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

No, the word used in Daniel is not ssemer.
It is `*mar associated with `amar = to heap
just as tal = pile up both are perfect descriptors
for the direction non-straight hair grows out.

[gigantic]

Aug 6, 2010 19:17:49 GMT -5 Tukuler al~Takruri said:

Grasping at straws by deliberately giving false information.

The females you presented are A3mw before Israel existed.

What does the title of the thread say? "Were the ancient HEBREWS black?" Hebrews existed before Moses, sir. It is you who is grasping at straws by resorting to strawman tactics. This is your second time, sir.

This is why I need not continue.

I think you are right, you should not.

You have no authenticity and resort to dirty tricks as a refuge from facts you find unpleasant and don't want to face.

Sir, you have resorted to strawman tactics TWICE now. I think it is safe to say that "you have no authenticity and resort to dirty tricks as a refuge from facts you find unpleasant and don't want to face."