Theology thoughts

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

Either divinities exist or they don't.

If they do exist they predate humankind or they don't.

If they don't predate humankind then people made them
up as a collective embodiment of their worshippers beliefs
about the universe and about themselves. This kind of
deity's power/capabilities are in proportion to that of their worshippers.

From what I can make out from history a deity is
powerless to travel unless carried by worshippers.
This even applies to a deity who is above nature.
Nature deities are only anthropomorphisms of
the forces of nature or natural phenomena and
of course would exist under varying names with
all people everywhere who believe there are
deities but their individual by name biographies
still need worshippers to carry them.

This travel liability is apparently true even if one
believes divinity predates humanity and exists
with or without human beings.


The caste of people who claim to represent deity have
immense power over their co-religionists and when
tribal or nationalist can be the determining point of
their people's place locally or globally. What a person
won't do in the name of or for self, family, tribe, or
nation they will sometimes do for g/God(ess) when
co-existant with belief in a soul and immortality and
in judgement leading to paradise or punishment
after body's death.

[Is a deity who would forever and ever day in and
day out roast the immortal soul of a worshipper --
who did bad things over a mere less than a century
life span -- a sadist?]

People can believe in a divinity predating humankind
but that divinity can be remote and unattached or
actively involved with humankind or once actively
involved until turned away by humankind or distantly
involved by proxy through intermediary sub-divinities
who can be deities themselves or humans elevated
to the rank of deity.

Generally people expect their deities to do things
for them in return for the worship/offering they give.
This seems to imply that to exist such deities need
worshippers prayers/offerings as nutrition without
which they wither and once forgotten they die.

[truthteacher2007]

It all depends on the perspective and worl view of the worshiper. What you described is a perspective found in the Abrahamic traditions, but there are older traditions which have a far different concept. Since nature is all encompassing, there is no such thing as a deity that is above nature. All that was is and shall be is an aspect of the creator and all divinities as well as ourselves are aspects of the creator. We are parts of it and it is also part of us. There is no true separation, only the illusion of such.

In my tradition, we do not believe in a heaven or hell. There is no devil. Divinity is not somethig that is external and outside of us, but we are a part of divinity and divinity is a part of us and exists in us. Or another way of saying it is that we are a part of divinity. Just as a cup of water taken from the ocean is part of the ocean, yet not the totality of it, so too are we a part of it. A cell in the body of the whole so to speak. Just as it is eternal, so too are we eternal. The experience of this life is but a temporary experience, these bodies are but vehicles in which one aspect through which our totality is able to express itself in a physical world.

The objective therefore is not blind obedience, but learning, evolving through the experience of a multitude of experiences and scenarios. In order to evolve we must be in harmony with the forces of nature that govern the world/universe. It is believed that before we incarnate into this real of conciousness we determined what objectives we wanted to accomplish and then chose the circumstances that would best allow us to accomplish that. We are the ones who chose which deities to accompany us and help us. It is not always neccessary that we be aware of their existance once we incarnate here. Therefore, their existance is not dependent on our knowledge or recognition of them. Even when we are aware of them, we are not bound to serve them if we do not choose to. We are always free to believe or not believe. We have a saying that even if we walk away from the orishas the orishas will never walk away from us. There is no retribution if we choose to follow another spiritual practice. However, we do believe that our actions do have consequences, so before we do something, we must first consider the consequences. For example, if you stick your hand in fier, you will get burned. Is this a devine punishment, or the result of cause and effect based on the principles of the physical world we live in? Therefore, we do not "worship" orisha out of blind obedience through fear of retribution, but it is a relationship that we create with them for the sake of our developement.

Does a tree falling in the forest make a sound if no one is there to hear it? Of course it does. The forces of nature and the universe always existed. It is we who give them names in order to understand them. If we forget those names etc, they still continue and perform their functions, even when and if we are not aware. As said before, the point of "worship" is for our benifit. It is a relationship. However, when we came to the western world we were forced to disguise our practices and adopt the religion of the colonizers. Often times, our practices absorbed points of views that originated in Catholicism or Protestant beliefs, thus, the insistance of following blind dogmas, the beliefs in heaven and hell and the devil etc.

Feb 6, 2013 17:47:38 GMT -5 Tukuler al~Takruri said:

Either divinities exist or they don't.

If they do exist they predate humankind or they don't.

If they don't predate humankind then people made them
up as a collective embodiment of their worshippers beliefs
about the universe and about themselves. This kind of
deity's power/capabilities are in proportion to that of their worshippers.

From what I can make out from history a deity is
powerless to travel unless carried by worshippers.
This even applies to a deity who is above nature.
Nature deities are only anthropomorphisms of
the forces of nature or natural phenomena and
of course would exist under varying names with
all people everywhere who believe there are
deities but their individual by name biographies
still need worshippers to carry them.

This travel liability is apparently true even if one
believes divinity predates humanity and exists
with or without human beings.


The caste of people who claim to represent deity have
immense power over their co-religionists and when
tribal or nationalist can be the determining point of
their people's place locally or globally. What a person
won't do in the name of or for self, family, tribe, or
nation they will sometimes do for g/God(ess) when
co-existant with belief in a soul and immortality and
in judgement leading to paradise or punishment
after body's death.

[Is a deity who would forever and ever day in and
day out roast the immortal soul of a worshipper --
who did bad things over a mere less than a century
life span -- a sadist?]

People can believe in a divinity predating humankind
but that divinity can be remote and unattached or
actively involved with humankind or once actively
involved until turned away by humankind or distantly
involved by proxy through intermediary sub-divinities
who can be deities themselves or humans elevated
to the rank of deity.

Generally people expect their deities to do things
for them in return for the worship/offering they give.
This seems to imply that to exist such deities need
worshippers prayers/offerings as nutrition without
which they wither and once forgotten they die.

[anansi]

Read the below sometime ago it "may" answer the question of why we believe, And Truthteacher is right for rail as I might about Abrahamic religions and religions in general I would be hard pressed not to walk my elders to Sunday service when in town

Science Explains Why Our Brains May Be ‘Hardwired’ for God
June 5, 2012 By molly 79 Comments
Is the brain hardwired for God?
Neuroscientists have found and measured chemical changes in the brain when a person is going through religious or spiritual experiences and keep coming back for more. It turns out religion makes us feel the same way we do when we meditate — the evolutionary explaination is these practices help us improve our mental state, so in a sense, we all believe in the same thing… only our vision of what “it” is comes in different forms. Whether it be a God or a power we have inside of us.
Dr. Andrew Newberg explains:
… religious feeling is not invisible. The common thread among mystical and spiritual practices is that while people are engaged in them, the lobes of their brain can be seen working together to create a powerful emotional experience. “When we looked at [subjects'] brain scans, instead of the frontal lobes going up, the frontal lobes actually went down [in blood flow]. Which makes sense in the context of what they are describing is happening to them,” Newberg explains. “They don’t feel that they’re purposely making it [happen]. They feel that they are being basically overcome by the experience.”
…
“… It certainly looks like the way the brain is put together makes it very easy for human beings to have religious and spiritual experiences.”
In other words, science explains religion. Don’t you love the irony?
Big Think conducted an interview with Dr. Newberg, a pioneer in neurotheology (neuroscientific study of religious and spiritual experiences):

This concept reminds me of a quote by Dale Carnegie from his book How to Win Friends & Influence People:
“When dealing with people, let us remember we are not dealing with creatures of logic. We are dealing with creatures of emotion, creatures bristling with prejudices and motivated by pride and vanity.”
The majority of people are driven by how they feel. Not by what makes sense. I have friends who don’t go to church or read the Bible but still preach that “there just HAS to be something more!” They want meaning. They crave explanations for uncanny occurrences in their lives or beautiful friendships they create or people they fall madly in love with.
All these things come down to the brain and what you do with it. We are born with a blank slate, and our life is defined by how we use our brains. You can insert your own meaning if you so please.
So learn to harness your thoughts and understand them, and you can make your life an open canvas! Draw. Paint. Carve. Weld. Wittle. Mold. Sculpt. Build. Use life as your own work of art.
Mine = Power. Explore the God within you.
www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/06/05/scienc

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

I broached this thread for people's insights
on theology not for a one upsmanship right
or wrong contest or deprecation of anyone's
beliefs.

I see that so-called Abrahamic religions
are a sore point with you. However what
I posted is not from any "Abrahamic"
perspective but are observations gleaned
from comparative religion and world history
as my prism interprets a small part of it.

Unlike you I don't pretend to know what the
truth is except many people of contrasting
views each regard themselves as the only
possessors of truth. Truth is just another
bias.

I don't know what your tradition is since
you didn't name it but parts of what I
wrote apply to it especially anthropomorphic
nature and natural phenomena as divinity.

I don't know and neither do you know if
there is or is not a deity above nature.
That's one possibility I presented among
others without adding personal value
judgements about what can or cannot be.
If you can't imagine a deity above nature
that's your limitation. If you say there
is no deity above nature that is dogma.

I don't know what "Abrahamic" says but
I do know in Judaism some believe the
Creator and the creation share being
where the individual elements in the
creation/multiverses are "pieces" of
the Creator while others believe at
one time there was only the Creator
who first contracted an infinitesimal
space (nothing) and then infused that
empty infinitesimal space (nothingness)
with all the matter (as energy) in the
currently expanding multiverses then
initiated the energy to matter conversion
we call the Big Bang.

Of course Jews or anyone who believe g/God(ess)
is composed of everything hardly pause and reflect
that g/God(ess) must be composed of piss and **it
too.

How can you claim to know what is and what
can never be? I certainly don't know what
is and what can never be. I barely know
what's going on around the corner.

As far as I know the concept of judge
deity who rewards or condemns a soul's
eternity is an Egyptian invention
perfected in the Book of Coming Forth
by Day and other Egyptian afterlife
books with their Lake of Fire and
other day after day afterlife punishments.
Again, I don't know about "Abrahamic" but
for the Hebrews Sheol was a place of neither
reward or punishment just the grave. As
Judaism developed the afterlife concept
grew to encase a world-to-come for purified
or purged souls and a world of oblivion for
the others. Some believe souls in the world
-to-come eventually become creators of
multiverses themselves.

There is an African belief systems that posits
a Creator divinty who interacted with even the
human component of creation but withdrew at
human request. That left a gap filled by nature
divinities and deified ancestors as a bridge.

There are even peoples who believe in no deity,
afterlife, or endless reincarnation. They say
here we are who cares how we got here. They
say **it happens and there's nothing to be
done about it neither one way nor the other.
They say enjoy what sweetness there is in
life for our individual existence is a short
one.

Apparently spirituality is not a "hardwired" or
given human trait but peer pressured ancestral
inheritance as is total lack of spirituality.

These are all equal theological thoughts.

I would hope members could present thoughts
on theology without judging or indicting others
they do not like as this is all no more than a
biological speculation's vibration.

[truthteacher2007]

I broached this thread for people's insights
on theology not for a one upsmanship right
or wrong contest or deprecation of anyone's
beliefs.

Relax. It ain't all that serious. Am I passionate about my perspective? Yes, but what ever floats your or anyboy elses boat is fine with me. Whatever blows your hair back. If you want to pray to a head of lettuce in your fridge named Ralph, be my guest. What I object to is the need for some people to tell others that they are wrong in their expression and sorry to say, but that is one of the major features found in the world view of a certain expression which has exerted influence over large parts of the globe. It is what it is.

I see that so-called Abrahamic religions
are a sore point with you.

I can't imagine what gave you that impression. Was it my head doing a 360 or my skin sizzling with that drop of holy water? ....That was a joke....

However what
I posted is not from any "Abrahamic"
perspective but are observations gleaned
from comparative religion and world history
as my prism interprets a small part of it.

Perhaps it didn't reflect any one faith in particular, but many of the points raised are central to their shared spiritual philosophy.

Unlike you I don't pretend to know what the
truth is except many people of contrasting
views each regard themselves as the only
possessors of truth. Truth is just another
bias.

Whoever said I was claiming to "know the truth"?I only shared what our perspective is. As said before, my practice is not based on dogmas. Nor do we claim to be the be all and end all of anything. A person is free to believe or not believe whatever they choose with out threat of retribution by us or threat of retribution from whatever spiritual entity. Once again, if you wanna hang with Ralph... or not enjoy yourself. We do not believe that we have the right to pass judgement or dictate. We do what is right for US. Everyone is free to do what is right for THEMSELVES, even if it means not beliving in anything at all.

I don't know what your tradition is since
you didn't name it but parts of what I
wrote apply to it especially anthropomorphic
nature and natural phenomena as divinity.

A nature based practice known as Lukumi or Ifa, or Santaria. And the ideas you mentioned are common misperception that people have about us and other nature based practices like ours.Therefore, I endevored to clear it up. We don't often get the chance to do so. Most of us tend to just keep to ourselves... maybe it has something to do with a history of being invited to barbecues where we turned out to be the main course... just sayin'....

I don't know and neither do you know if
there is or is not a deity above nature.

The central position of our philosophy is that there is no separation between the forces of nature and deity. They are one and the same. Therefore, unlike previously mentioned Abrahamic traditions, we are part of a matrix, the creator is the originator and manifestation of nature and we are a part of it and nature as well. The concept of separation is an illusion, we are all parts of a whole. Whether you agree or not is inconsequntial. nor is it cause for retribution or coersion. Believe as you will. A rose by any other name still smells as sweet.

That's one possibility I presented among
others without adding personal value
judgements about what can or cannot be.
If you can't imagine a deity above nature
that's your limitation. If you say there
is no deity above nature that is dogma.

Its neiter a dogma nor a limitation, only a perspective. Obviously our perspective on what constitutes nature is much broader and inclucive than yours, that all it is.

I don't know what "Abrahamic" says but
I do know in Judaism some believe the
Creator and the creation share being
where the individual elements in the
creation/multiverses are "pieces" of
the Creator while others believe at
one time there was only the Creator
who first contracted an infinitesimal
space (nothing) and then infused that
empty infinitesimal space (nothingness)
with all the matter (as energy) in the
currently expanding multiverses then
initiated the energy to matter conversion
we call the Big Bang.

The more esoteric branches yes, but not the mainstream. The way I look at it... who the hell cares, we're here now. Whatever "the truth" is, we'll find that out soon enough...

Of course Jews or anyone who believe g/God(ess)
is composed of everything hardly pause and reflect
that g/God(ess) must be composed of piss and **it
too.

And what's wrong with piss and shit? Its all a part of reality is it not? Shit makes the flowers grow and the Romans used piss to get their robes sparkling white... everything has a purpose.

How can you claim to know what is and what
can never be? I certainly don't know what
is and what can never be. I barely know
what's going on around the corner.

I don't claim to know anything. I just shaed our perspective. If you want the deeper answers of why, who told you ask a Babalawo. For me it simply means that the important thing is I am free to determine how to live my life. There is no book of destiny written somewhere in the sky. Only what I can achieve by the strengths of my efforts in this life. There ain't no magic. However, we are well aware that many people do want magic, to them we say..have at it.

As far as I know the concept of judge
deity who rewards or condemns a soul's
eternity is an Egyptian invention
perfected in the Book of Coming Forth
by Day and other Egyptian afterlife
books with their Lake of Fire and
other day after day afterlife punishments.
Again, I don't know about "Abrahamic" but
for the Hebrews Sheol was a place of neither
reward or punishment just the grave. As
Judaism developed the afterlife concept
grew to encase a world-to-come for purified
or purged souls and a world of oblivion for
the others. Some believe souls in the world
-to-come eventually become creators of
multiverses themselves.

Not sure who started the concept, but I do know that I grew up in a Christian world view that there was pie in the sky for some and an everlasting barbeque for others who didn't tick all the right boxes in this life. The concept of becoming creators within aspects of the Abrahamic practices are outliers, not representative of the majority. The only ones I know who teach this are Mormons.

There is an African belief systems that posits
a Creator divinty who interacted with even the
human component of creation but withdrew at
human request. That left a gap filled by nature
divinities and deified ancestors as a bridge.

Yes I know. But unless you heard it from them directly I would chalk that one up to another misunderstanding of the philosophy. In our belief system the orishas are themselves cells in the body of the creator. They can not act on their own behalf without the allowance of the creator, this goes double for ancestors. Therefore, we do not believe that the creator is really "distant" as has been said about us.

There are even peoples who believe in no deity,
afterlife, or endless reincarnation. They say
here we are who cares how we got here. They
say **it happens and there's nothing to be
done about it neither one way nor the other.
They say enjoy what sweetness there is in
life for our individual existence is a short
one.

And I say, what's the use arguing over it? At best, you'll find out at worse.... well lets just say you won't be dissappointed now will you? LOL

Apparently spirituality is not a "hardwired" or
given human trait but peer pressured ancestral
inheritance as is total lack of spirituality.

Or perhaps what is needed is a broader deffinition of spirituality. I don't think there is anyone who can not feel awed by the forces and many manifestations of nature and wonder how it all came to be and to what end it will follow. That for me, in itself is spirituality for it is the basis that all practices spring from.

These are all equal theological thoughts.

I would hope members could present thoughts
on theology without judging or indicting others
they do not like as this is all no more than a
biological speculation's vibration.

Everyone has opinions and perspectives. I've had my a** raked over hot coals by christians and muslims for not doing this or that, or for doing this or that. I see no harm in anyone stating honestly what their experiences were and why they tend to gravitate in a certain direction. I do not perscribe to the bible or any of the books as being god's unquestionable word, yet there are many people who ascribe to those beliefs who I greatly admire. Not because they convinced me of anything, but simply on the strenght of having displayed good chracter. I'll take a deascent non believer over a devilish believer any day.


Read more: egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=cultc&action=display&thread=1392&page=1#ixzz2KExAA1uh

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

Not really interested in going rounds with someone who can only wrap their head around their own
theological aspects with impunity toward specific others, someone who still champions their own
misrepresentations when countered by what they never knew or refuse to accept basic comparative
religious knowledge like the ancient Egyptians invented afterlife judgement reward and punishment
because it takes away from blaming the concept on religions they have sore points against.


The more you protest it the more your dogmatism and self-righteousness bleed all over the
page in your incapability to discuss theology without judgement condemnation or ridicule.
Your my dog's better than yours attitude is no different than that of the dog's who bit you.




Not really interested in going rounds with someone who can only wrap their head around their own
theological aspects with impunity toward specific others, someone who still champions their own
misrepresentations when countered by what they never knew or refuse to accept basic comparative
religious knowledge like the ancient Egyptians invented afterlife judgement reward and punishment
because it takes away from blaming the concept on religions they have sore points against.


The more you protest it the more your dogmatism and self-righteousness bleed all over the
page in your incapability to discuss theology without judgement condemnation or ridicule.
Your my dog's better than yours attitude is no different than that of the dog's who bit you.

You prove it doesn't take an "Abrahamic" to breed small minded religious bigotry just somebody
whose practice is itself a combination of some Gulf of Guinea religion, some indigenous Antilles
religion, Catholicism, and New Age "spirituality."

[truthteacher2007]

Aren't you the one who made this statement:

"Considering the track record of non-Abrahamic African divinities who
have more non-black worshippers outside of Africa where they hide
behind Xian saints for the most part why would anybody switch to
divinities who reward their worshippers with a Haiti or New Orleans?"
We'll now, there's an example of a respectful unbiased mind if
I ever saw one.

I don't think anyone reading my statements can in any way take it to mean my point of view is the only way or better than anyone elses.
Do I have an ax to grind with the Abrahimic paradigm, yes I do
and with reason. Forgive me for just being honest. But speaking of honesty... seems you have an ax to grind yourself which underlies the initiation of this thread in the first place... care to share?
However,if what you really wanted was people's insights on theology, as you claimed, then nothing I said should have offended you. It's just a different perspective. At no point did I say you had to agree with it or follow it, that was purely your own projection.

Considering how much traffic this site gets,(or doesn't),
it's a shame that you've chosen to miss an opportunity to have
a discussion. Could it be that since the perspective I've illustrated
lies outside the parameters that you've presented you have nothing to talk about? Where you see dogma I see opportunity for discussion.
The mere idea of a diety existing above nature opens the opportunity to explore differing opinions of what is consideted nature. Rather than calling me narrow minded, why didn't you ask me what I considered nature to be? I don't see how you can conclude I think my dog is better than yours when I repeatedly stated that, well... all dogs are just fine. My dog is not the BEST dog, nor the ONLY dog, it's just the dog I happen to love. The love I have for my dog does not require that you hate your dog, love my dog or even feel the need to have a dog.

Had I have been an athiest perhaps that would have made you
more comfortable, I don't know. It just looks to me
like you are hell bent on finding an argument where none
exists or is intended. It's as if you listed all the possible colors dogs come in and now you're mad at me because I've mentioned that there are dogs that don't come in any of those colors because they're hairless.... (Dude.... some dogs ARE hairless, It's just a fact).

My theological perspective is not unique to
my practice, but is shared by many others as well.
Native American, Aboriginal, many traditional Asian
cultures and even European cultures had similar world views until...
(Ooops better not open that can of worms again...)

When it comes to the way people conceive spiritual matters
there is no one size fits all that can be broadly applied to
everyone and that's the point you're missing. You've
presented a perspective that asumes everyone plays
the game according to a set of certain rules without realizing that there are people who get along just fine not playing such a game at all because the objective has nothing to do with competition or winning. There are no winners or loosers because the objective is different. If your theological premis is based on reward or punishment at the end of the game, then you will have a totally different perspective and set of expectations than someone for whom the objective of the game is personal development and self awareness.

I have no problem with the fact that people want to believe in
a saving christ, or the redeeming message of a Koran, or if
they want to believe they are "special", or if they believe in nothing at all. My mom is a born again christian, my brother is Jehovas witness, my uncle is muslim and my very best friend is an aethieist. We come together on not what we dissagree on but what is important in life. It's only when people seek to impose their world views on others that I bristle. At the end of the day, TO ME, it doesn't matter what you believe, but how you act. And in my opinion, an atheist who spends his life helping the poor or any other contribution that makes the
world a better place, is far more spiritual than a dozen priests
of any belief system who do the opposite.

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Feb 8, 2013 3:53:37 GMT -5 Tukuler al~Takruri said:

Not really interested in going rounds with someone who can only wrap their head around their own
theological aspects with impunity toward specific others, someone who still champions their own
misrepresentations when countered by what they never knew or refuse to accept basic comparative
religious knowledge like the ancient Egyptians invented afterlife judgement reward and punishment
because it takes away from blaming the concept on religions they have sore points against.


The more you protest it the more your dogmatism and self-righteousness bleed all over the
page in your incapability to discuss theology without judgement condemnation or ridicule.
Your my dog's better than yours attitude is no different than that of the dog's who bit you.




Not really interested in going rounds with someone who can only wrap their head around their own
theological aspects with impunity toward specific others, someone who still champions their own
misrepresentations when countered by what they never knew or refuse to accept basic comparative
religious knowledge like the ancient Egyptians invented afterlife judgement reward and punishment
because it takes away from blaming the concept on religions they have sore points against.


The more you protest it the more your dogmatism and self-righteousness bleed all over the
page in your incapability to discuss theology without judgement condemnation or ridicule.
Your my dog's better than yours attitude is no different than that of the dog's who bit you.

You prove it doesn't take an "Abrahamic" to breed small minded religious bigotry just somebody
whose practice is itself a combination of some Gulf of Guinea religion, some indigenous Antilles
religion, Catholicism, and New Age "spirituality."

[Tukuler al~Takruri]

I said I've no further dialogue for so-called TruthTeacher

While this thread is still open to anyone capable of
respectfully discussing variant theology notions for
an idea of how knowledgeable sensible people
without hatred or inferiority complexes present
Gulf of Guinea theology without need of envious
bashing or using ethnocentric yardsticks try here
1) Tribute to Obabi (Ogun)


2) Are the Neteru Gods?
attn: NeithAthena - AfroCuban, YoungHorus - Yoruba, Midogbe - Nigerian?

3) Yoruba

For derisive judgement read Gigantic's (a Haitian) comments
4) Pat Robertson says Haiti paying for 'pact to the devil'

Looking forward to intelligent conversation with
folk who realize there's more they don't know
than they do know and are open to experience
concepts they had no idea existed in known
religions or those held by little known ethnies,
i.e., members who are always ready to learn
about even what they could never conceive.


Of course, in addition to discussing general
theology concepts, members always have the
option to start a thread boosting their own
particular religion or bashing other peoples'
religions. There is a difference between
theology in general and patent sets of
theology meaning discrete religions or
modes of spirituality. For example one
general theology topic is the difference
between religion and spirituality.

[anansi]

From Al~Takruri
I said I've no further dialogue for so-called TruthTeacher

While this thread is still open to anyone capable of
respectfully discussing variant theology notions for
an idea of how knowledgeable sensible people
without hatred or inferiority complexes present
Gulf of Guinea theology without need of envious
bashing or using ethnocentric yardsticks try here




Okay lets treat this thread as a separate one from the Isreali doctor's thread which it is,all folks want to contribute so lets step back breathe a little and continue. will add more meat to the table later..Kool??

[truthteacher2007]

Is there a God, what is the nature of God? Is there an after life? Can we really know for sure. My real opinion? Really? Who the hell cares? Until we can all do what this man has done it's all useless talk. Actions speak far louder than words. If there is no God or after life, then we won't care when we die now will we. Its what we do here and now and how we treat each other that really matters. Until such time as we can give of ourselves to make life better for our fellow man, then we'd all do best to live and let live. We will all have different opinions, ideas and practices and reasons why we choose to follow one or the other, but when all is said and done, the only thing we really know for sure is that w are alive now and whether or not you believe in creation, or evolution, life and this world we live in is nothing short of miraculous!

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[jari]

What is a "deity" a being that can control the Fundamental forces of Nature and the Universe? A being that Creates life and guides its creation to harmony and structured living.

Some of the Aspects of Deities are they live off planet(I.E the Sun, the Moon, Mars, Venus etc) they control and provide Humanity with the Fundamentals of Nature, I.E Sunlight, Water, Food, Grain, Rain, Rivers etc. The are represented by Animals sometimes but take on Human abilites to think and act upon their environment.


The real question is when do we as humans become "Divinities", Michio Kaku and others say we are only 100 yrs away from being able to fully control the Energy Output of the Earth, achieving a Global "Type" 1 civilization, If and When we are able to control and manipulate the Weather such as Hurricanes simply for Energy are we taking on the Aspects of BAAL and other storm Gods?

IMO I don't think "Gods" exist outside the Human mind and imagination. I think if we as humans ever figure out the mystery of Life and are able to create life then we will become gods. This seems to be rather problematic when I discuss this with my friends, it seems we humans need to feel something Higher than us is out there, the idea that we can become "gods" through science and tech. is almost blasphemous to many of my friends whom almost all claim to be "agnostic" btw.