|
Post by homeylu on Apr 23, 2010 15:30:52 GMT -5
It's illogical to you because you don't read. Did you miss this whole paragraph? This is from page 3 of the 34 paged document. Why would you ask why did I give other meanings for KM. Especially after following this statement on page 3 again: What about the argument is so hard for you to follow? The whole point, in this section, is to demonstrate that KM, with N23 determinative means cultivated land/soil. I supported this with the Yoruba language which shows that the k-m/g-n root means BLACK SOIL/CULTIVATED LAND. Again, is this too hard to follow? What is not clear? This is why, sincerely, I suggest you study the basics of comparative linguistics and quite saying "it doesn't make sense to me" when you didn't even attempt to educate yourself on how linguists determine cognate terms and what are the rules and variables that shapes one's analysis. Also, I showed in the article, that an alternate spelling of KM as QM is the root of a term that means GOD. Thus why we can compare, again, with ciLuba the word KON-GO which means GOD. I provided you with the link for that as well. I don't need to study languages, as it is not a serious area of interest for me to focus my efforts on. I asked you in the first post to CLARIFY your thesis, by this I meant for you to clarify if KM means BLACK, or if KM means farm, and you didn't, instead you skated around the issue. When I think you should put more focus on the suffix T, since that seems to be the focus of the confusion. In the case of KM.T, the T denotes NATION, the rest is just debatable, as I stated earlier, because some people believe Nation represents people, and others believe it represents land(soil), but no one argues that it doesn't represent Nation, which is also synomous with LAND,as their is more than one meaning of the word LAND. Land---can denote earth, soil Land- can denote national origins...Land of America, from a distant land...land of the free....etc. etc., and this is where the ambiguity lies, which allows the debate to continue, and how you derived at farm land, shows you are still a symbol of the ambiguity that exists.
|
|
|
Post by homeylu on Apr 23, 2010 15:37:09 GMT -5
Also, I double checked some of the definition you posted, and this is what I find: English Translation: kanga Language Expression English Translation or Definition Chewa kanga mine, of ka class. Eskimo kanga colour. Gilbertese kanga how, quite, so. Gurbani kanga comb. Gweno kanga jerk, startle. Inuktitut ( kanga colour. Kalanga kanga fry, roast. Kami Kanga guinea fowl. Kiseri kanga fry. Mambwe kanga roast. Maori kanga abuse, curse. Mòoré kanga arm, arms. Ndengereko kanga guinea fowl. Ngurmi Kanga guinea fowl. Pitta Pitta kanga alcohol. Swahili kanga cloth, dress, fowl, guinea fowl, stalk. Taabwa Kanga guinea fowl. Tupinambá kanga bone. www.websters-online-dictionary.org/translation/kangaFrom the definition I posted, this is what is foundEnglish Translation: kubinga Language Expression English Translation or Definition Chiga kubinga defeat, drive away, run after. Chuka kUbinga close. Haya kubinga divorce. Ndali kubinga hunt.Ndari kubinga hunt.Nyambo kubinga chase. Nyoro kubinga send away, start off. Runyankore kubinga chase, give leave, send away.
|
|
|
Post by imhotep06 on Apr 23, 2010 15:44:01 GMT -5
Again, you're showing your ignorance of the issue. Coptic is the "alleged" last stage or spoken, verbalized form of the Egyptian language. KMT in Coptic HAS NO T SUFFIX. In Coptic (Coptic is a variation of the word EGYPT it comes from the Egyptian word GBT which is GEBTS in Amarigna): kame, kam, kemi, kem. Do you see a suffix -t in this example or of any of the examples I gave in the article or this thread in the related African languages?
You can think what you want on where I should be focused, but if your "thoughts" have no sound logical merit based knowledge of the language under examination.
Again, and I really don't understand why you are posting, but for the sake of other readers who want to learn, in ciLuba, another equivalent to the term KMT meaning land is KANDA. Here the k-m-t is k-n-d.
M > n (that means m turns into n) t > d
These sounds are often synonymous in each language. Also in ciLuba the final -t in the Egyptian is rendered ci-, ti-, tshi-. In ciLuba they don't suffix it, but prefix it. that's why you see the word KMT as ciKam, or Tshikam. There is a place in Kongo right now called ciKama. That is KMT plain as day. African languages are flexible because they are agglutinative and not reflexive like the majority of European languages.
Each word is a small sentence (a word consisting of smaller words). This is why they can move and match at will. They can say BLACK BIRD or THE BIRD"S BLACK and that will be a word. Thus AGINJU (black/dark + wilderness). AGINJU and KONGO are the same word.
|
|
|
Post by imhotep06 on Apr 23, 2010 15:46:52 GMT -5
Okay, now why don't you do what most people do and follow the references given in the article. I clearly demonstrated that the terms I found are for the ciLuba language and I went here: www.ciyem.ugent.be/This is an online ciLuba search dictionary. It is in French and Luba. Type in Kanga and see what you find, then translate it from the french.
|
|
|
Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Apr 23, 2010 15:47:49 GMT -5
The KM ideogram is a charred piece of wood or crocodile scale if one prefers. Its primary meaning is black as something all charred or as black as a croc's scales. KM of itself has two meanings: Without accompanying determinatives or textual context it has no other meanings.
|
|
|
Post by homeylu on Apr 23, 2010 15:51:09 GMT -5
^^ This is what I thought, so how does this translate to FARM... as in Land of Farmers.
As I stated, I'm not an expert on hieroglyphs, but I think this is hieroglyphics, 101...in its elementary format. Seriously.
|
|
|
Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Apr 23, 2010 15:54:18 GMT -5
So who provided zin-ga syllables? Not me. Nzi-nga is not zin-ga. The general rule for Bantu is a vowel marks the end of a syllable not a consonant. For instance, Bantu is not ban-tu, it's ba-ntu. ^^ Altakruri, I know how Nzinga is pronounced, it is pronounced as EN ZIN GA, and not ZIN GA, in the Kimbundu language of Angola, AN GO LA, and from the original ruler Ngola.
|
|
|
Post by imhotep06 on Apr 23, 2010 16:00:25 GMT -5
I believe this is incorrect for two reasons. KM, with the charred piece of wood, also means MINERAL (could be coal as KM also means coal in related languages). It is from THIS definition which the other definitions are built. I demonstrated that you canNOT attempt to attach BLACK to EVERY instance of that the coal/mineral glyph is used. I gave the example of kmy.t "heard of cattle," and KMT "large granite jar." NONE of these have a color indication or one that hints at "complete." In the footnote I also provided an alternative spelling for kmy.t and that is gnw "cattle." Here, for the one who thinks we can't alternate k/g or m/n, is a CLEAR example of such a case in the Egyptian language, which there are dozens others. Thus why we can say k-m/k-n as in KM or KONGO/KANGA/EGAN. So anyone claiming that the KM biliteral coal sign means black exclusively has not examined its usages fully and on linguistical grounds is unfounded. The KM ideogram is a charred piece of wood or crocodile scale if one prefers. Its primary meaning is black as something all charred or as black as a croc's scales. KM of itself has two meanings: Without accompanying determinatives or textual context it has no other meanings.
|
|
|
Post by homeylu on Apr 23, 2010 16:01:28 GMT -5
Okay, now why don't you do what most people do and follow the references given in the article. I clearly demonstrated that the terms I found are for the ciLuba language and I went here: www.ciyem.ugent.be/This is an online ciLuba search dictionary. It is in French and Luba. Type in Kanga and see what you find, then translate it from the french. I used the link you provide, though I don't understand French, it appears that 5 DISTINCTIVE definitions were given, depending on the use of the word as a verb, noun, or adjective or pronoun. Then I used the same dictionary and typed in the word KONGO, and it is shown as a proper noun, name of a place.
|
|
|
Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Apr 23, 2010 16:01:47 GMT -5
A native Indo-European speaker cannot learn proper pronunciation of non-IE languages from a book. One needs a teacher who is a native speaker and who is also proficient in the learner's language. I've noticed that the ch sound in the German word ich even gets mispronounced by other IE speakers. You have to know alternatives in a language as well. Often people make definitive statements about a term without knowing the synonyms. For instance, the word NGANGA is NGA-NGA, (nga reduplicated). Alternatives for this is NGAA and GA. The GA is equivalent to the Egyptian KA. This lets us know that the -ng- is not a diphthong, but two separate morphemes and the N- is a prefix attached to nouns in Bantu demonstrating "one who is, a possessor of, etc." So an NGAA, NGANGA, GA, NGA is "one who is a doctor/healer." For a reference for these alternate terms, see Modupe Oduyoye "Words and Meaning in Yoruba Religion: Linguistic Connections Between Yoruaba, Ancient Egyptian, and Semitic" ftnt 18 pg 134 Bantu has diphthongs like nz, ng, nt, etc., like nothing in Indo-European languages. Nzinga is a two syllable word; nzi-nga. Ngola is a two syllable word; ngo-la. Kongo's two syllables are ko and ngo. Ask a native speaker who teaches the language and they can demonstrate the sounds and how the mouth is held to form the sounds.
|
|
|
Post by imhotep06 on Apr 23, 2010 16:05:31 GMT -5
This is actually Ba-n-tu. The -n- is a contraction of ENIE. The vowels are dropped and reduced to an -n-. It's the same in Yoruba. When you names like Oludumare, the O is a contraction of OLU or OLUWA, a whole word. In Yoruba however, for Nouns they like to keep their vowels in initial position. Thus why it is Ol' and not L. But this isn't always the case. The word ORISA is two words: ORI ESE. In Igbo this is simply OLISA or LISA. In most bantu renderings it is simply LISA/LIZA. So we have to be careful and study the different parts of the terms. So who provided zin-ga syllables? Not me. Nzi-nga is not zin-ga. The general rule for Bantu is a vowel marks the end of a syllable not a consonant. For instance, Bantu is not ban-tu, it's ba-ntu. ^^ Altakruri, I know how Nzinga is pronounced, it is pronounced as EN ZIN GA, and not ZIN GA, in the Kimbundu language of Angola, AN GO LA, and from the original ruler Ngola.
|
|
|
Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Apr 23, 2010 16:08:57 GMT -5
The 't' in KM.t is a suffix making for a feminine form. When I think you should put more focus on the suffix T, since that seems to be the focus of the confusion. In the case of KM.T, the T denotes NATION, ...
|
|
|
Post by imhotep06 on Apr 23, 2010 16:12:02 GMT -5
That would be a sound argument if I got this information strictly from books. All my sources are from native speakers and who are linguists in their own languages: Modupe (Yoruba) and Bilolo (Luba/Kikongo) for example. This is a method I live by so no one can use that excuse. Plus I hear it and make it a point to listen: from cd's, native speakers in my town etc. By doing this, this is how I discovered in IziZulu, that normally, when an /h/ sound is preceded by a vowel, the /h/ sounds like a /sh/ sound. This gave me motivation to look into how vowels possibly affected the /h/ in Egyptian and came to discover that the /h/ is pronounced as a /ch/ which became a fricative in iziZulu. Thus why CHERU in Egyptian (heru) becomes ZULU in Bantu. It also becomes KULU in Bantu as well. So always check by listening. You can learn a lot. A native Indo-European speaker cannot learn proper pronunciation of non-IE languages from a book. One needs a teacher who is a native speaker and who is also proficient in the learner's language. I've noticed that the ch sound in the German word ich even gets mispronounced by other IE speakers.
|
|
|
Post by homeylu on Apr 23, 2010 16:14:05 GMT -5
So who provided zin-ga syllables? Not me. Nzi-nga is not zin-ga. The general rule for Bantu is a vowel marks the end of a syllable not a consonant. For instance, Bantu is not ban-tu, it's ba-ntu. ^^ Altakruri, I know how Nzinga is pronounced, it is pronounced as EN ZIN GA, and not ZIN GA, in the Kimbundu language of Angola, AN GO LA, and from the original ruler Ngola. In the their pronunciation of the word Nzinga, it's pronounced in 3 syllables, I don't know for sure, but maybe the N in their language is pronounce like the sound (EN) rather than the sound (NA); which I should have been more clear in explaining. I'm always having to explain to people how to properly pronounce my daughter's name, as I want it pronounced in the African tongue, not the English phonetical use of the letter N in English. So I assumed a vowel was noted in the beginning, but this could just be an error in my judgment.
|
|
|
Post by Tukuler al~Takruri on Apr 23, 2010 16:23:24 GMT -5
I have no idea of KM as farm in AEL. In AEL a farm, for one, is `hh.t; the word for farm land, i.e., a 'roped off' piece of arable land. ^^ This is what I thought, so how does this translate to FARM... as in Land of Farmers. As I stated, I'm not an expert on hieroglyphs, but I think this is hieroglyphics, 101...in its elementary format. Seriously.
|
|