Who are the Siddi ?

[kel]

Who are the Siddi ? Africans in India.

Nat Geo claims they are slaves (smh).

What is the truth?

[djoser-xyyman]

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Unraveling the Population History of Indian Siddis
Ranajit Das

Read more: egyptsearchreloaded.proboards.com/search/results?captcha_id=captcha_search&who_at_least_one=19&what_at_least_one=Siddi&display_as=0&search=Search#ixzz5Dn0PILhj

Unraveling the Population History of Indian Siddis Ranajit Das1,*,† and Priyanka Upadhyai. Read at the paper forget the conclusion by the authors

The genetics record of the Siddis do NOT match the stated history in the books about slavery. Another lie made up by Europeans to explain the presence of Sub-Saharan African looking people in Greater India. But these people are found in geographic and latitudinal proximity to where they should be based upon adaptation.

1. progressed southward from the east African Bantu center
2. manifested the highest genomic proximity to the North-East Bantus and the Luhyas from Kenya.

------
Unraveling the Population History of Indian Siddis
Ranajit Das

The Siddis are a unique Indian tribe of African, South Asian, and European ancestry. While previous investigations have traced their ancestral origins to the Bantu populations from subSaharan Africa, the geographic localization of their ancestry has remained elusive. Here, we performed biogeographical analysis to delineate the ancestral origin of the Siddis employing an admixture based algorithm, Geographical Population Structure (GPS) . We evaluated the Siddi genomes in reference to five African populations from the 1000 Genomes project, two Bantu groups from the Human Genome Diversity Panel (HGDP) and five South Indian populations. The Geographic Population Structure analysis localized the ancestral Siddis to Botsawana and its present-day northeastern border with Zimbabwe, overlapping with one of the principal areas of secondary Bantu settlement in southeast Africa. Our results further indicated that while the Siddi genomes are ****significantly ****diverged from that of the Bantus, they manifested the highest genomic proximity to the North-East Bantus and the Luhyas from Kenya. Our findings resonate with evidences supporting secondary Bantu dispersal routes that progressed southward from the east African Bantu center, in the interlacustrine region and likely brought the ancestral Siddis to settlement sites in south and southeastern Africa from where they were disseminated to India, by the Portuguese. We evaluated our results in the light of existing historical, linguistic and genetic evidences, to glean an improved resolution into the reconstruction of the distinctive population history of the Siddis, and advance our knowledge of the demographic factors that likely contributed to the contemporary Siddi genomes.

Siddi,

[africurious]

Hahaha! Xyman strikes again. Just to clarify for those uninformed what Xyman likes to do is post snippets (sometimes incoherent ones) from genetic studies and highlight the parts that he feels backs up what he claims even if the study itself contradicts his claim. He knows most ppl aren't versed in genetics, won't investigate on their own and he'll come across as knowledgeable on the topic. Case in point is this post he just made above. He highlights some parts quoted from the study which supposedly back his claim that Siddhis aren't descendants of slaves taken to indian subcontinent but in the very material he quotes it states that they are slaves. Below is the 2nd to last sentence in the part he quoted:

Our findings resonate with evidences supporting secondary Bantu dispersal routes that progressed southward from the east African Bantu center, in the interlacustrine region and likely brought the ancestral Siddis to settlement sites in south and southeastern Africa from where they were disseminated to India, by the Portuguese.

And if the above isn't clear enough. This is the quote from the introduction of the study:

The Siddis are a unique tribal group of African ancestry predominantly found in the Indian states of Gujarat, Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh and Telengana (Lodhi 1992). The earliest evidences of their migration that date back to ~1100 A.D indicate that the Siddis settled on the western coast of India (D.K 1969; Gauniyal, et al. 2008). By the 13th century a greater influx of Siddis occurred and they were imported by regional Indian kings and princes to serve as slaves and soldiers (Shah, et al. 2011). Subsequently during the 16th-19th centuries Siddis were transported in large numbers to India as slaves by the Portuguese (Bhattacharya 1970; Nevet 1981)

Remember how Xyman said this earlier:

The genetics record of the Siddis do NOT match the stated history in the books about slavery.

He was just straight lying. Here near the end of the study the authors say their genetic analysis matches with the historical evidence of Siddi origins in slavery:

Our analysis dates the admixture between Siddis and South Asians to ~300 YBP or 12.66 ±2.11 generations ago, using a generation time of 25 years. This estimation is
older and likely more precise than an earlier proposed timeline of 200 YBP or 8 ±1 generations ago(Shah, et al. 2011)that was calculated using the less accurate ROLLOFF algorithm (Loh, et al. 2013). Our proposed time -scale of admixture appears to be congruent with historical evidences, which suggest that a large number of African ancestors of the Siddis were imported to India from Mozambique between 1680 A.D and 1720 A.D(Gauniyal, et al. 2008; Nevet 1981).

Anyone seriously interested in this study can search for it online as it's available in it's entirety for free. Here for example: www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2017/01/20/101857.full.pdf+html

Now the question is why would Xyman lie and distort genetic studies if the evidence is abundantly on his side as he always claims? The same reason why Trump and his spokesmen lie and distort evidence all the time.

[africurious]

To be clear, I'm only addressing Xyman's claims about the study. I'm not arguing one way or another for Siddi origins.

[kel]

yeah........the whole thing is weird.

[djoser-xyyman]

Apr 27, 2018 11:33:44 GMT -5 africurious said:

To be clear, I'm only addressing Xyman's claims about the study. I'm not arguing one way or another for Siddi origins.

Alriighttty then! Finally! Capra?

You are funny dude. Where should I begin?

First - As I said many times YOU(the reader) need to do independent research and look at the data yourself. I bold section to show discrepancy and confusion within the paper and to show where the author hypothesis may be incorrect. And they conclusion is incorrect many times over.
Eg
Quote:
"Our results further indicated that while the Siddi genomes are ****significantly ****diverged from that of the Bantus". If the Siddis arrived in 500years through the Portuguese they will not significantly be diverge. AFRAMS are not significantly diverged from West Africans.

I actually looked at the paper again yesterday in more detail and here is what I discovered. Listen up! The mtDNA "African" lineage is NOT typical of West Africans from Portuguese Africa. LOOK AT THE SUPPLEMENTAL!!!!! I was plan to post on this further when I saw the mtDNA sub-clades. So I decided to look at the male lineage. And we had another surprise.


These Siddis are NOT genetically close to East Africans. Neither Botswana or Mozambiqu. Another lie told by Europeans when they saw African "looking" people that did not involve modern "Europeans"

[djoser-xyyman]

I was about to comment on the dataset and what caught my eye. Example – Cape Verdeans carry Native American mtDNA B. Also J, N*, T, X and R0. Mende carry J and U6. STP U6 and Senegambia U6, U5 and M1.

But back on topic. First off the Mozambique male line weren’t sampled. Typical of Europeans to “selectively” sample. But if we move one country up. The dataset irregardless do NOT support the Siddis came from Mozambique because they lack yDNA A3 and E1b1b. They are absolutely absent from the Siddis and is heavily found in East African . Siddis are not slaves. In fact we now know that E1b1a was in Turkmenistan 4000years ago!!!!

[africurious]

So if we are to believe you then Kel posed a question and you responded by making grand claims and used a paper with glaring contradictions to back up what you claimed? Riiiight, yea that makes sense. Also, good job with showing us studies and evidence that support your claims.

[djoser-xyyman]

Quote;

" We estimated the effective male population size of the African ancestors of Siddis brought to India as ~1,400 individuals"




missing YDNA A and E1b1b in Siddis. An unusual high frequency of yDNA B. A very ancient lineage age

[djoser-xyyman]

Here are some rear lineage found in Africa. Particularly deep SSA

mtDNA

Native American lineage in A2 and B in Mende, Iwo Eleru?, Mozambique and Cape Verde
K - Tanzania
N*- Cape Verde
U5 - Fang
U6- Kenya
N1a - Tanzania
M1 Sierra Leon
R0- Cape Verde, Sierra Leone and Cameroon